Are GameFreak favoring the World Championships and competitive battling over in game facilities?

[Boss1708]

I was thinking... At the Battle Resort in ORAS, there are a few guys advertising the World Championships, saying they are training for that.

So, not only about ORAS and XY, but in general (since gen V actually) , could the reason GF decided to cut the Battle Frontier, and outright state it isn't interesting today, be that it would distract fans from online battles?

Could it be they want to "force" more fans to enter competitive battling, and think that more battle options ingame = less people trying competitive?

Instead, they made the Battle Maison as efficient and playable as possible, to serve as a preparation for competitive battles, they made breeding super easy, also EVs, etc... It really looks like they're inviting us to play competitive/online?

 

[ocelotlrama jaguar]

I remember mentioning this in another post around here. Very flimsy postgame content and the fact that they made breeding mechanics and EV training easier does point to that direction. The shameless advertising at the end of ORAS kind of sealed the deal for me that they do want more people to participate. I mean, from a business standpoint, yeah, I can see why. It sells more games since they pretty much force you to use the latest version of the games at official tournaments. Unfortunately, instead of making the postgame fun for people who also enjoy casual play, they had to scrunch it down for competitive players to make their teams in a hurry and train for regionals (or nationals). There doesn't seem to be any middle ground, which kind of blows.

I have to wonder if this is why they never made another stadium game. Battling online is done through handhelds now and the sprites are now in 3D. It is also really boring and doesn't give anything nice to look at other than some lame ass stick people in neon colors, which is why I want them to bring back stadium games (but I digress). I am happy they are acknowledging the competitive scene, but at the same time, I'd hate to see the franchise cater only to competitive battlers from now on. I mean, why can't there be both? Good postgame play for those who enjoy good, casual fun and also something for good, competitive fun?

 

[Desdar300]

I remember mentioning this in another post around here. Very flimsy postgame content and the fact that they made breeding mechanics and EV training easier does point to that direction. The shameless advertising at the end of ORAS kind of sealed the deal for me that they do want more people to participate. I mean, from a business standpoint, yeah, I can see why. It sells more games since they pretty much force you to use the latest version of the games at official tournaments. Unfortunately, instead of making the postgame fun for people who also enjoy casual play, they had to scrunch it down for competitive players to make their teams in a hurry and train for regionals (or nationals). There doesn't seem to be any middle ground, which kind of blows.

I have to wonder if this is why they never made another stadium game. Battling online is done through handhelds now and the sprites are now in 3D. It is also really boring and doesn't give anything nice to look at other than some lame ass stick people in neon colors, which is why I want them to bring back stadium games (but I digress). I am happy they are acknowledging the competitive scene, but at the same time, I'd hate to see the franchise cater only to competitive battlers from now on. I mean, why can't there be both? Good postgame play for those who enjoy good, casual fun and also something for good, competitive fun?

The reason they don't make stadium games is due to the franchise already being in 3D now.

 

[Boss1708]

I remember mentioning this in another post around here. Very flimsy postgame content and the fact that they made breeding mechanics and EV training easier does point to that direction. The shameless advertising at the end of ORAS kind of sealed the deal for me that they do want more people to participate. I mean, from a business standpoint, yeah, I can see why. It sells more games since they pretty much force you to use the latest version of the games at official tournaments. Unfortunately, instead of making the postgame fun for people who also enjoy casual play, they had to scrunch it down for competitive players to make their teams in a hurry and train for regionals (or nationals). There doesn't seem to be any middle ground, which kind of blows.

I have to wonder if this is why they never made another stadium game. Battling online is done through handhelds now and the sprites are now in 3D. It is also really boring and doesn't give anything nice to look at other than some lame ass stick people in neon colors, which is why I want them to bring back stadium games (but I digress). I am happy they are acknowledging the competitive scene, but at the same time, I'd hate to see the franchise cater only to competitive battlers from now on. I mean, why can't there be both? Good postgame play for those who enjoy good, casual fun and also something for good, competitive fun?

I think there is a lot for casual fun too, though: Secret Bases, Institute, Contests, Trainer Eye, Amie, Food Court, Restaurants, Cheateau, etc... Gen VI has a fair amount of in game activities imo. Just no Frontier- type complex, but other thingies instead.

 

[Desdar300]

I think there is a lot for casual fun too, though: Secret Bases, Institute, Contests, Trainer Eye, Amie, Food Court, Restaurants, Cheateau, etc... Gen VI has a fair amount of in game activities imo. Just no Frontier- type complex...

GF and TPC in general make changes based on what their Japanese audience thinks more so than their western ones. So it could be that JP kids just have this mindset. Though I'm of the mind that they cut it out to have the games out earlier.

 

[Boss1708]

GF and TPC in general make changes based on what their Japanese audience thinks more so than their western ones. So it could be that JP kids just have this mindset. Though I'm of the mind that they cut it out to have the games out earlier.

Yeah, we've had this debate before... I am sure there were no time issues, mainly bacause over 100 devs worked on ORAS, so I don't think time was an issue. I agree about the Japanese fans being their key audience though...

 

[Desdar300]

Yeah, we've had this debate before... I am sure there were no time issues, mainly bacause over 100 devs worked on ORAS, so I don't think time was an issue. I agree about the Japanese fans being their key audience though...

If over one hundred people worked on Oras then I'm shocked that not one of them could fix the frame rate or 3d issues. That said I think the BF will be back in Z or whatever the final Gen 6 games will be because the backlash was pretty bad even in Japan.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

That said I think the BF will be back in Z or whatever the final Gen 6 games will be because the backlash was pretty bad even in Japan.

I don't think it would come back to be honest. Game Freak made it pretty clear that we aren't seeing the BF ever again. Apparently people wouldn't have time or be interested in the BF according to an interview.

 

[Desdar300]

I don't think it would come back to be honest. Game Freak made it pretty clear that we aren't seeing the BF ever again. Apparently people wouldn't have time or be interested in the BF according to an interview.

That's kinda the thing atm in Japan where mobile gaming is dominating. Though I saw a good number of people who were pretty upset that the BF was axed at least on some Japanese forums I saw so maybe that might change their minds? After all the Japanese fans more or less dictate the direction of the franchise

 

[Boss1708]

If over one hundred people worked on Oras then I'm shocked that not one of them could fix the frame rate or 3d issues. That said I think the BF will be back in Z or whatever the final Gen 6 games will be because the backlash was pretty bad even in Japan.

Yes, I can confirm more than 100 devs worked on ORAS. Actually, ORAS did improve the frame rate issues. But frame rate and 3D issues are more of a technical issue, not properly development of the game.

Also, aren't you surprised they didn't fix the lag and slowness in gen IV, having three games to fix it? They never did.

Similarly, this could be more of a technical limitation of the 3DS. It doesn't bother me, personally.

About the Frontier, if it was cut from Unova, and cut from Hoenn, I think you have no reason to predict it for Z or future games. It could eventually come back, but I think it is more reasonable to expect a White Treehollow kinda building, than a Frontier.
And I do agree about Japanese fans dictating some of the changes. They probably wanted more competitive action than in game facilities, imo.

 

[Icy Wind]

No. Those guys "adverstising" the world championships are just an easter egg. Also, Game freak can't always rehash 5/7 battle facilities in mutiple games. That's probably why the battle frontier has been cut out since gen 5.

 

[SakuraFox512]

Wow, did it really get stated in an interview that no one has the time or interest to bother with the Battle Frontier? That's cheap. If memory serves, you could save in-between rounds or whatnot in at least some of the battle facilities, so the 'time' part doesn't quite check out...

And the 'lack of interest' one is quite clearly false, seeing the backlash when fandom first found out it was removed.

All that said, my personal opinion is that the Battle Frontier was easily the best post-game battle location Game Freak ever made. Each area in it offered something distinctly different from the others around it. Up for a wild card experience? Well then slink into the Battle Pike. Spectator sport with your Pokemon's personality and moveset being deciders? Welcome to the Battle Palace. Want the standard Tower format? You can do that too! The Battle Maison/Resort on the other hand? Plain vanilla Battle Tower with Rotation and Triple Battles tacked on.

Honestly, I'd argue that the Frontier required more resourcefulness and cleverness on average than the Resort does and that that would be a plus if you want people in tournaments, but I suppose that's neither here nor there.

Could it be they want to "force" more fans to enter competitive battling, and think that more battle options ingame = less people trying competitive?

That's probably the thought process going on, but I don't know that it's an approach that actually works. By and large, making EV training/IV inheritance and such easier likely opened up the competitive scene for people who enjoyed the idea of championships etc., but found the legwork previously needed to be too demanding, but...I don't think dropping the number of in-game options inspires anybody who wasn't already on-board with the competitive part of the series to tackle it, so much as it does penalize the people who were never interested in going mano-a-mano with others in the first place and just liked having a variety of ways to test themselves.

 

[Boss1708]

Wow, did it really get stated in an interview that no one has the time or interest to bother with the Battle Frontier? That's cheap. If memory serves, you could save in-between rounds or whatnot in at least some of the battle facilities, so the 'time' part doesn't quite check out...

And the 'lack of interest' one is quite clearly false, seeing the backlash when fandom first found out it was removed.

All that said, my personal opinion is that the Battle Frontier was easily the best post-game battle location Game Freak ever made. Each area in it offered something distinctly different from the others around it. Up for a wild card experience? Well then slink into the Battle Pike. Spectator sport with your Pokemon's personality and moveset being deciders? Welcome to the Battle Palace. Want the standard Tower format? You can do that too! The Battle Maison/Resort on the other hand? Plain vanilla Battle Tower with Rotation and Triple Battles tacked on.

Honestly, I'd argue that the Frontier required more resourcefulness and cleverness on average than the Resort does and that that would be a plus if you want people in tournaments, but I suppose that's neither here nor there.



That's probably the thought process going on, but I don't know that it's an approach that actually works. By and large, making EV training/IV inheritance and such easier likely opened up the competitive scene for people who enjoyed the idea of championships etc., but found the legwork previously needed to be too demanding, but...I don't think dropping the number of in-game options inspires anybody who wasn't already on-board with the competitive part of the series to tackle it, so much as it does penalize the people who were never interested in going mano-a-mano with others in the first place and just liked having a variety of ways to test themselves.

I think more than enough was added to compense the lack of a Frontier with Soaring, Delta Episode, over 40 new islands (that's a huge fricking amount, be they big or small), Dex Nav, etc

The point is, the challenging, Frontier style Facilities don't seem to be of their taste anymore. They probably noticed most of the Frontier Facilities are not used as much as according to the effort put into making those.

 

[Zeb]

Well this isn't anything new/exclusive to Pokemon. The multiplayer/competitive aspects in general are becoming a larger focus (both to gamers and their developers) and more accessible in games these days. Heck, some games are completely online + multiplayer only. It's just how a lot of gaming is shifting now. And tbh it makes a lot of sense with Pokemon because of how it's trainer vs trainer and there's so much that's customisable for teams.

Of course focusing on that side more is going to sour some people and it really shouldn't have to detract from the offline features the game offers, but I can only think they must consider the post-game enough content after the main quest when Battle Spot is thrown in too. But I still think it makes a lot of sense, as I said lots of gaming is heading towards that side and Pokemon has always been about interacting with other players (either via trading or battling) and the VGC tournaments bring a lot of fans together to have a good time. (And honestly competitive battling IS fun except for Mega Kangaskhan.)

 

[Boss1708]

Well this isn't anything new/exclusive to Pokemon. The multiplayer/competitive aspects in general are becoming a larger focus (both to gamers and their developers) and more accessible in games these days. Heck, some games are completely online + multiplayer only. It's just how a lot of gaming is shifting now. And tbh it makes a lot of sense with Pokemon because of how it's trainer vs trainer and there's so much that's customisable for teams.

Of course focusing on that side more is going to sour some people and it really shouldn't have to detract from the offline features the game offers, but I can only think they must consider the post-game enough content after the main quest when Battle Spot is thrown in too. But I still think it makes a lot of sense, as I said lots of gaming is heading towards that side and Pokemon has always been about interacting with other players (either via trading or battling) and the VGC tournaments bring a lot of fans together to have a good time. (And honestly competitive battling IS fun except for Mega Kangaskhan.)

I agree with you...

I am the type of fan that regularly plays competitively online, but I still care more for the in game experience (because online features eventually fade when the online server stops in a few years, and I like playing my Pokemon games long after the online support is down, so a game should still focus on offline more).

So my point is: with gen VI, I think GF finally achieved the ideal BALANCE between offline and online content. Now, if GF continue to shift towards online competitive, the balance will be lost, and it will become an issue. But if Game Freak stays here, with the current balance they achieved, it will be fine. And I think that's what they will do...

 

[SakuraFox512]

I think more than enough was added to compense the lack of a Frontier (Soaring, Delta Episode, over 40 new islands (that's a huge fricking amount, be they big or small), Dex Nav, etc

I hadn't meant to suggest that nothing good was offered to offset the removal of the Frontier, since I liked basically all of what you listed, but on the other hand, most of that content was related to catching rather than battling, so I sort of place them in different categories.

 

[Boss1708]

I hadn't meant to suggest that nothing good was offered to offset the removal of the Frontier, since I liked basically all of what you listed, but on the other hand, most of that content was related to catching rather than battling, so I sort of place them in different categories.

I agree that battle wise, nothing really offers what the Frontier does, but still:

- Maison
- Resort type Specialists, Wally Battle
- Food Court
- Pseudo Gym Secret Base battles
- Institute
- Pokemon League rematch teams with Mega Stones
- Trainer Eye rematches
- etc

My point is, there is a lot of battle options as well. The difference is they are more "easy to get into" than the Frontier. But you still have the Maison and Institute for challenging competitive like battles.

I personally miss the Battle Pike and Arena, the rest of Frontier Facilities were exciting back then, but I think people are overhyping the Frontier as a whole, because nostalgia goggles are powerful

 

[Zeb]

Honestly, Inverse battles seemed made to fit a Frontier-like battle institute. Maybe they'll allow it as an option at the Maison/Tower (whatever it ends up called) in future games; seems a shame to waste it on a daily battle.

 

[godiego]

Honestly, Inverse battles seemed made to fit a Frontier-like battle institute.

i'm still putting down 50 cents and a pack of gum that it's for 'testing' an ability of Zygarde's.

 

[Boss1708]

i'm still putting down 50 cents and a pack of gum that it's for 'testing' an ability of Zygarde's.

I don't understand... What do Inverse Battles have in common with Zygarde?