Spoilers Are Pokemon Sun and Moon even good games!?

[GhostLucario]

Actually, most games have a catching tutorial.

but it was a short thing, not the whole first 30-40 minutes of gameplay

 

[Blue Canary]

The first time I played the game, I thought it was pretty fun, if a bit limiting.

Then I replayed it, and it was unbearably boring. The hordes of cutscenes and tutorials were somewhat tolerable the first time around. But the second time? Dear Arceus was it bad. The somewhat uninteresting Pokémon selection, especially when compared to the past two gens, didn't help its replayability. It was mostly Water-type Pokémon, Kanto Pokémon, and especially Water-type Kanto Pokémon, and the few interesting Pokémon from past gens were difficult to find, reserved for lategame, or both. The poor online play and lack of good postgame also really hindered the replay value.

 

[Almonds]

It isn't perfect, but it's not bad. The new features are pretty cool, but there are always certain things that were so good in the previous games (Dex Nav, Challenge Mode, Hordes, PSS, PWT etc) that the lack of their existence combined with unfamiliar features makes the current games inconvenient.

 

[Anime Psyclone]

I've written before in several threads that this are my most despised pokemon games for several reasons.
I will just point some things I really loathe and make them the worst games for me

Spoiler

[*]Handholding and cutscenes. I don't think we need so much of this. Earlier games were perfectly playable and had no tutorials.
[*]gameplay mechanics. I hate everything about these games. Festival Plaza (was PSS too much of a good thing?), SOS battles replacing dexnav and hordes (even other methods such as pokeradar in DPP were better), the no HMs was fine but the exploration is lacking.
[*]too much focus competitive and lack of exploration: I don't care about competitive gaming. I want to explore the region, I want puzzles and the exploration back. The islands are way too small, and the few areas available are locked. You can't explore the volcano, there are no puzzling cavez like Rock Tunnel in RBY, no surfing routes (IDK if this is good or bad though) every route is way too small etc etc. These games are even more linear than BW, and with all the handholding they are very underwhelming.
[*]artificial difficulty: the games aren't harder as some people put them. A water trial is first, you can capture a lot of water mons for the fire trial, which is next, and there you catch fire mons for the grass trial later. Hard? I don't think so. The trials are boring and laughable.
[*]Pokemon selection. 300 out of 800. With a lot of those being mons we have seen game after game.
[*]I won't comment on the plot since I found it no better, or worse than other gens.

There's probably many more things but I don't want to repeat what everyone included me has said before. I find only Gen 1 worse than this and only because back then the lack of technology resulted in some awful mechanics and limited plot.

Ok, did you read my mind!? This is exactly how I feel about SM

The game is not mostly cutscenes. That video you posted seems to be suggesting anything where you aren't taking control of your character, like a long section of dialogue, is a cutsecene, which is totally not true. This video shows what are actually cutscenes and there are only around 10.

Spoiler

Both do pretty much the same thing: interrupt the gameplay for story crap that is not that good

And the 30 minute unskippable and unsaveable finale.

I SRed the first time on accident because I wanted to skip the credits and save. Not that the champion was hard at all.

 

[Blockhead Pippi]

Are Sun and Moon even good games?

No.

I stand by my opinion that Sun and Moon were the least enjoyable Pokemon games I have ever played. Even RSE and DPP are a lot more enjoyable than these two games are. I've lectured far too many times now than I can count about why I disliked Sun/Moon. The pacing is just absolutely atrocious and the region too small. The Trials also hardly felt like an accomplishment compared to the gyms and felt more like side quests than anything. The ending's length also made me livid. For God's sake already, shut up and let me save.

I knew that there were way too many slow cutscenes, but damn. I had no idea it was 6 whole hours. That's ridiculous.

Sun and Moon were pretty fun the first time through, but only because they were new. In my opinion, they're near impossible to replay due to the horribly slow pacing and constant interruption from forced cutscenes and tutorials.

This perfectly highlights the problems I had with Sun/Moon. For the duration of the entire game, I never once felt independent. Everyone just kept blatantly telling me where to go, and the cutscenes' frequency greatly limited my sense of exploration. And isn't that just counter-productive to what Pokemon is all about? You play as an independent trainer. Let me be independent then.

 

[Sakuraa]

Both do pretty much the same thing: interrupt the gameplay for story crap that is not that good

That doesn't change the fact that the game is not 6 hours worth of cut scenes, and that saying so is misleading. Also the bolded is totally subjective. Believe it or not, some people actually like Sun and Moon's story.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Believe it or not, some people actually like Sun and Moon's story.

To add onto that, quite a large chunk of the fan bases believes that Sun and Moon have the best storylines of all Pokemon games.

 

[Anime Psyclone]

To add onto that, quite a large chunk of the fan bases believes that Sun and Moon have the best storylines of all Pokemon games.

News flash.
Sometimes not trying to be creative and hiding the villains is good. XY’s story was better, i mean it sent shivers down my spine when i first saw it. And Gen 5 has the best story hands down. They had a better plot twist that I won’t spoil, but it was better..

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

News flash.
Sometimes not trying to be creative and hiding the villains is good. XY’s story was better, i mean it sent shivers down my spine when i first saw it. And Gen 5 has the best story hands down. They had a better plot twist that I won’t spoil, but it was better..

That's entirely subjective. I just said what I read (almost) everywhere: XY having abysmal story, BW2 and SM having great stories.

No story is objectively the 'best' one.

 

[Anime Psyclone]

That's entirely subjective. I just said what I read (almost) everywhere: XY having abysmal story, BW2 and SM having great stories.

No story is objectively the 'best' one.

Still, I loved XY’s story. SM was obvious right off the bat, but both the plot twists of BW(Ghesties being the real leader and having a different goal then what you think most of the time) and XY’s just was the second most brutal plan(Kill everyone but team Flare. I knew they like beauty, but man!).

 

[Twilight-Kun]

In terms of technology and visuals, they're easily the best of the 3DS titles

Story-wise, I'd rank them just behind BW/BW2 and Platinum, which (to me) had the best stories

Gameplay, unfortunately, drags it down

-The tutorial lasts for two hours (which should be when you arrive at the first trial)
-The battles are ridiculously slow and unvaried
-The railroading is absurd (I'm looking at you, Stoutland guy who somehow manages to hog an entire road and being unable to challenge the Akala Trials in any order)
-The villains are all hyped up, then when you fight them, they go down in a matter of seconds (steamrolling Faba's lone Hypno, for one)
-The Alolan pokémon are completely overshadowed by previous region pokémon (Magnemite breaks the game in half and it only gets worse as it evolves)

For any real challenge, you have to set up an absurd number of rules, such as Alolan pokémon only, no Z-Moves, no Exp. Share, no Refresh, and Nuzlocke Rules (albeit you'd have to modify the catching rules because proper Alolan pokémon are few and far between)

But, even with all its flaws, SuMo is enjoyable enough and if you like a slower pokémon game, it's a perfect fit

 

[zoroarctic]

The beginning drags a little, but it otherwise feels like it was tailor made for people like me.

 

[Guzma]

Nope. They were a massive step-up from Gen VI, and rival Gen V for the title of "best Pokemon gen" in my eyes. I have a few complaints, like the disappointingly small roster of Alola forms and the terrible speed of most new Alola Pokemon, but it was better to Bugs than Gen VI (not as good to Bugs as Gen V, though) and introduced the best villain team.

 

[Kharixi]

and introduced the best villain team.

Well not everyone actually thinks they're the best...

At least I don't like Team Skull very much at all.

 

[Desdar300]

Still, I loved XY’s story. SM was obvious right off the bat, but both the plot twists of BW(Ghesties being the real leader and having a different goal then what you think most of the time) and XY’s just was the second most brutal plan(Kill everyone but team Flare. I knew they like beauty, but man!).

Not really because TP did nothing but contradict themselves throughout the entire story which make the grand reveal almost fruitless.
While XY's plot wasn't flushed out enough for it to even make sense
Many can say what they will about SM's story but at least it was cogent.

 

[Guzma]

Gotta admit, part of my disappointment with XY was because of how bad the story was in comparison to BW, even though the reveal of Ghetsis being the Big Bad and Team Plasma being hypocrites was obvious from the start.

I mean, shit, when the remakes from the same gen have a better story than the main pair of that Gen, you know somethin's messed up, yo.