At what point did Ash go from rash rookie to skilled trainer?

[KrspaceT]

So, seeing as Suede is currently down, thinking on his observations of Ash's progress from complete moron to the better but still moron he is by Johto Filler Hell/Season 4. Now, ignoring the worst of BW, it is generally agreed that Ash generally got better and at some point he can be considered a skilled and effective trainer held back only by outside factors.

My question is...when did Ash properly change from plucky new trainer with potential to realizing said potential (not necessarily a hundred percent, but making high progress on it).

I typically lean on the ADV era for it, though I couldn't pinpoint an exact point and am not against pushing it back to maybe sometime in Master Quest or even later in DP if from sheer pressure to improve via Paul. What's the take you guys have, especially if you have a more exact date.

 

[Daren]

I have trouble picking a specific point but I'd say no later than mid AG; he had a really good Gym run there (if I recall correctly only one loss, two if you count his unofficial with Norman) and did very well in the league (only narrowly lost to the winner) with a mostly fresh team and defeated Legendarys in the Battle Frontier.
I lean on that because he probably could have won the Hoenn League with his reserves based off how close it was without them.

I mean he still did some dumb stuff but that never stopped.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

He had experience under his belt by the time he got to Johto but he still wasn't a skilled trainer.Unfortunately that was the last time he used his reserves during his journey to earning 8 gym badges.

Hoenn he became more mature and took his role as a trainer more seriously.He went out of his way to get Pikachu to perfect Iron Tail,Treecko to learn Bullet Seed and work with Swellow to master Aerial Ace.Skillwise I'd say he's still the same as he was from Johto or just slightly better.

Battle Frontier he had to come up with strategies to help him win but his 3rd battle against Brandon showed he still had plenty of growing left to do as he made a rookie mistake by having Charizard use Seismic Toss on Dusclops I still think Charizard should've won here.

Sinnoh he improved as a trainer,he formulated more strategies like the counter shield,earlier on he was having Pikachu do a dodge/spin combo but eventually dropped it.

He had Chimchar get on a piece of ice in his battle against Candice,he commanded Staraptor to use Close Combat on the ground to escape the clutches of Paul's Gastrodon.

I think he was heavily influenced by Paul,he was shown training his pokemon almost every episode.He was more prone to switching his pokemon during battles and even tried to copy Paul's style of training in one episode by having his pokemon attack him to boost the power of their moves.

So I'd say around BF/DP is when he became a really skilled trainer.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Battle Frontier

 

[Handy Man]

Kanto (Original Series): Rash Rookie
Orange Islands: Rash Rookie
Johto: Rash Rookie
Hoenn: Rash Rookie/Skilled Trainer
Battle Frontier: Skilled Trainer
Sinnoh: Skilled Trainer
Unova: Rash Rookie
Kalos: Skilled Trainer
Alola: Skilled Trainer
Journeys: Skilled Trainer

 

[Sai]

Around Orange Islands and early/mid Johto he started to get the basics of battling down. He would have never beaten the Orange League Drake without knowing how to battle, so he was already pretty good back then.

 

[Daren]

Around Orange Islands and early/mid Johto he started to get the basics of battling down. He would have never beaten the Orange League Drake without knowing how to battle, so he was already pretty good back then.

I was quite tempted to bring up Drake and I think that's what they were going for at the time (I think his battle with Cassie was supposed to be hinting to the idea Ash was meant to be a fairly powerful trainer at that point) but the OI finals ends up looking like a sudden but temporary competence spike in retrospect since a lot of the lessons he used to win it vanished after, like his good use of switching.

 

[Sai]

The Johto Gym leaders besides Falkner and Claire were very weak in the anime. Besides having trouble with Miltank's rollout he beat all of them on his first try.

 

[KrspaceT]

The Johto Gym leaders besides Falkner and Claire were very weak in the anime. Besides having trouble with Miltank's rollout he beat all of them on his first try.

Er....that's a bit of an odd metric. Weak Gym Leaders don't mean 'either beat Ash or require reserves'. Honestly the only one that didn't make Ash work for the badge was pre Miltank Whitney, and Miltank made up for that.

 

[Daren]

The Johto Gym leaders besides Falkner and Claire were very weak in the anime. Besides having trouble with Miltank's rollout he beat all of them on his first try.

Honestly I think that's more realistic than what happened in later regions; Ash had a good amount of experience and had a number of experienced and powerful Pokémon with him during Johto.
According to that old chart Johto was actually the region where Ash had his best win/loss rate (though I did some manual checking and I think Sun/Moon became the highest after the league) because they didn't reset him to the same extent as most later series' did--probably because it was still part of the same series as Kanto and the Orange Islands.

 

[Sai]

Bugsy battled Ash with a Metapod. Even when I was a kid when those eps were new, I knew something was off. If Ash still had Charizard when he battled Bugsy he would have one hit KO all his pokemon.

All the Gym leaders were fairly mediocre even by anime standards, it wasn't until Claire Ash seemed to have a decent challenge again

 

[KrspaceT]

A Pikachu has beaten or tied with multiple legendary Pokemon. Stats aren't the Bee all end all

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

I'll say Johto. By the beginning of AG he was already skilled enough.

 

[FelipePR]

My question is...when did Ash properly change from plucky new trainer with potential to realizing said potential (not necessarily a hundred percent, but making high progress on it).

- Well, Ash's progress as a trainer has been a real roller coaster. He evolves at various times during its journey, as he has regressed or been reset at several other times.

- Ash certainly wasn't a great trainer at the end of the Original Series, although he did well on the Indigo Plateau. During the Orange Islands and Johto, I believe that Ash evolved a lot as a trainer, as well as strengthened his bonds with some of his Pokémon and, through new captures, built a more diverse and able team. So, in Silver Conference, Ash was already a powerful trainer, but not enough to fight for the League title.

- In AG, we had the first Ash's Revamp, after he lost in Johtho, the protagonist chose to start over from scratch. And while he looked like a decent trainer at first, I think he improved a lot during his Journey. However, Ash failed to assemble a very powerful team in Hoenn. Ash, then, returns to Kanto and uses some of his old Pokémon again in Battles against the Frontier's brains, at which point he was able to demonstrate all his evolution as a trainer.

- In DP, again, Ash restarts his team from scratch, but, unlike Hoenn, he seems more focused and skilled in battles, as well as manages to assemble an extremely powerful team, as well as being open to using previous Pokémon in the League Championship. In fact, Ash's ability as a trainer and the power of his Pokémon are so significant that the developers decide to put a character with legendary Pokémon, Tobias, to stop him from winning the league.

- In BW, Ash certainly regresses. He doesn't seem like such an empowered trainer, a fact that makes him worthy of provocation by Iris. In addition, the character was not able to form a great team.

- In XY, Ash seems to be much more focused on battles and demonstrates solid progress as a battler, as well as building an equally powerful team, however, his biggest weapon is also his biggest weakness, his reliance on Ash-Greninja. And, as we know, Ash reaches, for the first time, the final of a league. The rest is history.

- In Alola, initially, it appears that Ash has regressed as a trainer. But maybe he's just more relaxed, as he still proves to be a great trainer. But honestly, I haven't seen many episodes of this season. And, despite the league being a little easier this time, given its level, Ash manages to defeat the mighty Kukui and become Champion.

- On the Pokémon Journeys, Ash seems to pick up more or less where he left off in Alola, and quickly assembles a powerful and constantly evolving team to compete for the worlds.

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- Sorry for the extensive digression, Lol. In Short I wanted to say that Ash had several moments as a great trainer, and that many times a previous saga was used as background for his abilities in the following ones (OS -> Johtho, AG -> DP , Alola -> Journey), although he had certain regressions and setbacks along the way.

- But, in summary, I believe that Ash became a Tier A Trainer sometime between the Battle of the Frontier and DP, since he won the first and had a real chance of becoming champion in the second.

- But what about actually realizing and understanding his potential? It's complicated, but maybe that happened at the Silver Conference.

- Ash was, at first, a presumptuous person, a behavior that, in large part, was reflected in his Charizard, and it was only in this League that the two, in harmony, managed to deliver their maximum. I think that there Ash understood his limits and his potential as a trainer and that he had started to walk a fit path to achieve his dream.

 

[game3524]

By the end of the OI and he carried that over through Johto. The big difference is his team was a lot weaker in Johto then it was in the OI

 

[PaperSplash]

I consider EP099 (the one with Prima/Lorelei) to be a big turning point. Ash was acting extremely cocky after a few easy wins, only to be humiliated by a completely hollow victory courtesy of Charizard, followed by a crushing defeat at the hands of Prima. While his overconfidence didn't quite go away, that episode was the last time he felt outright arrogant to me, so I think the point of it was to bring him down a peg or two. (Which makes me a little annoyed that its dub will likely never legally see the light of day again.)

 

[Shadao]

So, seeing as Suede is currently down, thinking on his observations of Ash's progress from complete moron to the better but still moron he is by Johto Filler Hell/Season 4. Now, ignoring the worst of BW, it is generally agreed that Ash generally got better and at some point he can be considered a skilled and effective trainer held back only by outside factors.

My question is...when did Ash properly change from plucky new trainer with potential to realizing said potential (not necessarily a hundred percent, but making high progress on it).

It's difficult to assess when he goes from a plucky new trainer to one with potential, but I would say it's the Orange Islands, particularly when he has to deal with Charizard.

But it's easier to assess where he goes from a trainer with potential to a trainer with great potential. That was the second half of AG, when he's invited to the Battle Frontier. That was the time when Ash took down Legendaries for the first time. Once thought to be unbeatable... now they can be taken down. From the Orange League to the Hoenn League, Ash has improved a lot but it's not noticeable when trudging through Johto filler hell (which is why ShoPro's takedown on Suede is particularly devastating because Johto recaps were a slog to go through because of how boring many of the episodes are). It's like a gradual progress of boiling temperature on a frog.

Sinnoh can be considered where Ash is realizing his potential as a battle strategist and a trainer, since he turned what supposedly is a weak Chimchar into one of the most powerful Pokémon on his team with nothing more than love and bit of encouragement. It's also the first time he is challenged on a philosophical level that no other rival has done to him before, so he's fighting for what he believes in, not just for winning. This era is when the foundation of XY and Journeys is created.

Because XY marks the first time where Ash is simply portrayed as a badass trainer and upcoming ace. He himself hasn't really changed beyond being more confident and calmer, but it's the first-time people that recognize him as an exceptionally talented trainer. He's someone to be looked up to. You'll never see that with OS Ash at all. He'd wish he had a fraction of what XY Ash's reputation has. SM Ash seems to step back from this portrayal, but only slightly. It's just enough for his opponents to be caught off-guard that this is a particularly talented trainer despite his goofiness. And then JN Ash... well imagine if XY Ash's reputation was magnified on a world scale, with his achievements broadcasted everywhere as the trainer reaching Top 8 Master Rank.

 

[Dark Warrior]

When he became Champion of Alola. Honeslty, probably in the Kalos League.

 

[P_S_B]

I have trouble picking a specific point but I'd say no later than mid AG; he had a really good Gym run there (if I recall correctly only one loss, two if you count his unofficial with Norman) and did very well in the league (only narrowly lost to the winner) with a mostly fresh team and defeated Legendarys in the Battle Frontier.
I lean on that because he probably could have won the Hoenn League with his reserves based off how close it was without them.

I mean he still did some dumb stuff but that never stopped.

Three if you count the unofficial rematch with Watson. If I remember right he didn't feel right about one-shotting Watson due to the souped up Pikachu so he rematched him on his way back through Mauville and Watson ended up winning. But yeah, I'd say AG was when he start gitting gud, and he only improved into DP.

 

[nickdt]

Battle Frontier set him up the path to become a skilled trainer, but in Sinnoh he became a skilled trainer (Its also why they could afford to have Brock chase his own goal, him mentoring Ash was over).