Attack changes and Dark/Fighting/Psychic starters

[Cybersai]

I think the annoyance is having to use all new TM's to teach Pokemon new moves.

That means I may have wasted Earthquake TM's on the wrong Pokemon, since when I trade it to D/P, I may have to totally revamp its moveset.

For the people who have a ton of well trained Pokemon at level 100 even in their GBA games, it will be very annoying to constantly buy new TM's to change their entire movesets.

Oh, and they better make Earthquake buyable in this game, it's annoying having only one of it.

 

[Clan rHrN]

Grass/Dark
Fire/Psychic
Water/Fighting

There's already been a Fire/Fighting starter (i.e. Torchic's evolved forms Combusken and Blaziken), and Grass/Dark types are quite rare, as are Water/Fighting Pokemon. Fire/Psychic Pokemon are a new dual-type.

And it balances type advantages and stuff so that the Fire/Psychic Pokemon actually has a chance against the Grass/Dark (the rival might choose the one with the secondary type being advantaged).

Here are what I think the Gymset will be:
1st Gym: Grass
2nd Gym: Ghost
3rd Gym: Dragon
4th Gym: Ice
5th Gym: Light (Possibility, since there are Dark-type Pokemon)
6th Gym: Dark
7th Gym: Dragon
8th Gym: Misc. (Like Blue in GSCfor Viridian City)

And here's my assumption on Light-type Pokemon.

Great against: Fire, Fighting, Dark, Steel
Weak against: Normal, Bug
Can't hit: Water

 

[Pie]

Do you have any reason to think that's what the Gyms will be, and that there will be Light-type Pokémon? Or, perhaps, are you just pulling it out of thin air?

We have enough speculation based on things we do know. We don't need 100%-fanon ideas to come out of the woodwork in these discussions. (There are other places to take 100%-fanon ideas.)

 

[Sol]

The people at Serebii at practically in tears. I don't why, it'll just change what they have on their teams.

Haha, dont get me started on that ceasepool of dumb that is the Serebii forums. No one over there even knows what they are talking about, sans a few mods.

Anyway, I'm very excited about the possible Starter change. I LIKE change. I'm tired of the same thing, over and over and over for 10 years or so. Thats why I left [Pokemon] the first time.

 

[Sui Kune]

Hmm....but one thing that bothers me is if Ghost-type attacks become Special. Most Psychic-types have very high Special Defense, and if Ghost-type attacks were to become Special too, that could be a big problem. Assuming Bug is still normal Attack, that would make Bug the only effective offense against Psychics, as Psychic types' normal Defense tends to be on the iffy side. Seeing how Bug-type attacks are much more uncommon than Ghost and Dark, that could really unbalance things in Psychic's favor.

 

[The Big Al]

Crunch says high. Basically, Ghost becomes Special and Dark becomes physical which is the way it should have been.

 

[Sui Kune]

Ohhhh! Right, forgot about that. That puts my mind at ease now.

 

[Zeta]

Hmm....but one thing that bothers me is if Ghost-type attacks become Special. Most Psychic-types have very high Special Defense, and if Ghost-type attacks were to become Special too, that could be a big problem. Assuming Bug is still normal Attack, that would make Bug the only effective offense against Psychics, as Psychic types' normal Defense tends to be on the iffy side. Seeing how Bug-type attacks are much more uncommon than Ghost and Dark, that could really unbalance things in Psychic's favor.

Not all attacks will be changed. It seems to me what they're doing is making attacks with a physical component become Physical Attack (so Shadowpunch would stay physical, and things like Volt Tackle would become Physical too) while beam or projectile attacks (like Hyperbeam and Shadowball) would become Special.

This is going to screw with me, since my SpecialCrunch Manectric is nerfed. As is my Shadowballing Delcatty and Ancientpowering Armaldo.

 

[jigglysama]

I think that some of the non-contact physical attacks such as Pin Missile, Rock Slide and especially Earthquake should do physical damage (how is it supposed that a solid stone can do special attack damage?). Anyway, I have been waiting for this change on attacks to be done since the Gold/Silver era. Now all I need now are some stronger and/or more accurated bug, rock and steel-type attacks (our good-old Pinsir seriously needs a bug attack of its own other than the unreliable Hidden Power). In my opinion:

Alakazam is screwed as his elemental punches are going to become nearly useless, while an opposite scenario will happen with Hitmonchan.

Blaziken will find more for his Blaze Kick/Fire Punch attacks now when combined with his other physical attacks.

Houdoom is doomed (ha ha ha, what a pun...) with its Crunch. It will be substituted maybe for Shadow Ball.

As another point of view, I would like the water resistence to ice inverted. I mean, low temperatures freezes liquids easily! This (unlikely) change would kill Ludicolo and Quagsire for good. Or maybe Poison strong against water? Polluted water is not easy to clean, right? This would bring a new advantage for the underated poison-types. This paragraph is just my opinion, so don't take it seriously. However, I would like to see some other people's suggetions regarding to type weakness/resistence/immunity changes.

 

[Sui Kune]

Ohhhhh, I get it....attacks that directly damage a Pokemon (like a punch) would be physical, while attacks that indirectly do damage (like a beam) would be Special. I can see some exceptions like with Earthquake and Rock Slide, but that really does make sense. If this turns out to be the case, it'll be a whole new challenge and really shake up strategies; making some Pokemon more effective and others less effective. Makes me wish Absol could learn Crunch....

 

[Eszett]

The starters don't bother me because I don't care about starters.

Anyways, I'm liking this new battle system - my Manyula will be able to use its types effectively at long last and boost them with Swords Dance - but it can still go wrong. Hopefully the logic they use in determining the physicality or specialness of moves won't make such staples as Earthquake and Rock Slide special moves.

 

[Zeta]

This paragraph is just my opinion, so don't take it seriously. However, I would like to see some other people's suggetions regarding to type weakness/resistence/immunity changes.

The only complaint I have is that Steel needs a new weakness. All Steel types have uber defense and they're resistant to just about everything but Fire and Ground. If you don't have a Flamthrower or set of Earthquakers when going up against Steven Stone for instance - you've basically SOL.

Furthermore, Poison could use a new advantage. It's strong against Grass, but many Grass Types are already part Poison. Making them seem totally useless.

 

[The Dude]

Uh, why does this shaft Sceptile. Oh. Crap.
How will this change affect Snorlax?
And I still think the new starter types thing is bull, though it would be nice. Apparently, the beginning of the games is the very last thing the programmers work on, so it's all up in the air.
Serebii folks are up in riot about both things. But everything that's been said here in four pages has been said there in at least 20. And, keep in mind, Bulbagarden pages are 15 posts, while Serebii pages are 20. AH, the insanity and sheer noobity of the D/P forums. I'm smarter than 90% of the people that post there, minimum.

Furthermore, Poison could use a new advantage. It's strong against Grass, but many Grass Types are already part Poison. Making them seem totally useless.

I recommend either Fighting or Water. But more Fighting. Fighting is, whether people know it or not, a type with huge advantages. It needs disadvantages, to make things fair. And, for even more fairness, and great justice, give Bug type a base 90, physical move.
Anyone care to compile a list of what might be physical and what would not be? I'm really cofused about Giga Drain.

 

[Zhen Lin]

I assure you, it is what is said in there. Whether or not it will turn out to be true, however...

Keep in mind, they do need to finalise the game within the next month or two. Manufacturing and shipping the initial stock takes some time.

 

[Doctor Oak]

If the game goes Gold any later than this time next month i'd be rather surprised. By now tweaking and finalising should be all they're doing in preperation for testing, any significant changes concerning battle systems or Pokemon should be cemented by now.

 

[ShadyWolf]

Dark-, Fighting- and Psychic-types featured as the primary types for starters in DP...more than intriguing. Admittedly, this change leaves me a little skeptical, though I imagine the delivery will match the aplomb with which the previous games have performed.

The attack changes might even be more interesting, though. The idea that the likes of Machamp, Sharpedo, Jynx and Rhydon getting a new light brought upon them, it's at the expense of some neat Pokemon like Manectric, Banette, Houndoom and Sceptile. Still, speculation is fun, and I'd expect to see a few specific changes:

- Dragon Claw becoming Physical
- Signal Beam turning Special
- Tri Attack goes Special
- Faint Attack goes Physical

Admittedly, a good portion of the above is wishful thinking, but I feel the predictions are rather spot-on.

 

[Zeta]

The best part about this is that it makes more Ghost and Dark types usuable beyond being anti-Psychics. The problem with the two types was always that Dark-types tended to have high physical strength but required special moves for STAB - while the opposite was true for Ghost-types. Since most offensive Dark-type moves involve some sort of hand to hand contact, it is not hard to imagine most of them will now play on the physical stat.

But yes, the Pokemon this is most likely to screw over are those that currently rely on Ghost/Dark type attacks to augment their movesets - such as Shadowball Snorlax, Crunch Manectric and such.

On the other hand, they may add a LOT more moves to the game than last time. Imagine if for every move they altered they added a new alternative. Like a Physical replacement for Shadowball or Hyperbeam? That would introduce a lot more variety to the game, because you'd be able to chose between power, type of attack, PP, and Elemental type when factoring in movesets.

 

[Silktree]

It is clear that some players of the current generation of games have come to see Diamond and Pearl as means of engaging against others like them. I suppose that those who have put their faith in being able to play the English versions by the end of the year, look forward to trading their teams and facing opponents from around the world. Therein lies the problem - this revolution renders the prospect of backwards compatibility unnatural in a competitive context. It will be impossible to experience the third generation metagame through the new engine employed in Diamond and Pearl; it will only be possible to use the characters raised in the previous games in new dimensions, but that in itself strays from the metagame as we now know it. Simply put, emulation of the metagame to which everyone has become accustomed will not even be optional.

One might argue that this is not any different from the relationship between the first and second generation games. But there is, in fact, a world of differences - Gold and Silver were by no means perceived as a step in communication to the first generation as Diamond and Pearl undoubtedly are to the third. They were, however, the tool to bring upon a new metagame untainted by the many glitches and imperfections of the first generation. This is not true for the third generation, whose metagame cannot be objectively claimed to be in any way flawed. In other words, the current metagame deserves to be preserved in the online environment which will soon be established. How can that be done without colliding with Diamond and Pearl?

This turn of events certainly throws an interesting spin on the presence of the FireRed and LeafGreen trainers in the Pokémon Garden web site, but more importantly, in the only existent footage of the Battle Revolution game.

 

[Zeta]

It's sort of funny that the reactions to these changes are very similar to how MMORPG gamers feel when class attributes are readjusted via a new patch. The Pokemon metagame has kind of evolved into an psuedoMMORPG on its own over the years, despite the lack of online Pokemon applications - at least official ones.

 

[Cybersai]

Hm, why is Roselia always showing up with the D/P Pokemon? It's shown in the D/P circle:

http://www.pokemon.co.jp/event/summer2006/samatora.html

I know Sugimori said he was thinking about evolving Roselia, but does this confirm it?

If so, we might see Drew's Roselia evolve next season.