Battle Center Discussion #2 - Impact of Team Preview in the Metagame

[Synthesis]

Battle Center Discussion #2 - Impact of Team Preview in the Metagame

Welcome to the second instalment of the BCD, in which the Battle Center has a weekly discussion thread for different aspects of the Metagame. Related things will be posted every Wednesday, ranging from Pokemon, to moves, abilities, strategies and more. At the end of the week, the old thread will be unstickied, but people are still free to post in it, and a new one will take its place. If you have any suggestions for future discussion topics, post in the thread or PM a Battle Center Moderator.

This week's discussion topic is the Team Preview aspect of battles, introduced with the advent of Gen V.

How has it affected battling? Are some older strategies not viable now? What Pokemon benefit or lose out as a result of this? Do you think it was a step in the right direction? This is the place to talk about it!​

 

[Takaki]

Pokemon such as Metagross and Swampert are essentially useless now with the advent of team preview (Though Swampert was never good anyway). Suicide leads were also hit hard.

 

[Angad]

Kingdra was hampered by the fact that people could know that they always had to keep Ferrothorn alive to win the match.

 

[Affinity]

Aside from the said Pokemon, I think that Wobuffet and Wynaut were hit hardest. Former Ubers (I have no idea how well they worked since I only started playing competitively in Gen V) now down to OU (BL is still OU in a way) since it's much easier to predict their entry now.

 

[Takaki]

It's the Encore nerf and powercreep that have hit Wobbafette, nothing else.

 

[Synthesis]

It's the Encore nerf and powercreep that have hit Wobbafette, nothing else.

Not quite true. Team Preview has greatly impacted the successfulness of any trappers or Pursuit users since once the opponent sees a trapper on your team, they will be much more careful with regards to leaving things in. This is the primary reason why things like Dugtrio, Magnezone and Wobbufet's usage declined, along with some standard leads like Azelf and Infernape. Although, Dugtrio's been seeing more usage in BW2 OU thanks to how more people are relying on Ninetales and Ttar, which Dug traps and removes.

The power surge and Encore mechanic changes didn't help Wob either.

 

[Takaki]

Most of the good generations 4 players used to stick on the side of caution early on anyway. For example, in tournament play it was generally regarded that Shed Sheel was the best item for Skarmory and Forretress whilst on the ladder it was Leftovers.

 

[Angad]

Dugtrio has become much harder to use as it often needs to come in with another pokemon bringing it in with Volt Switch or U-turn, another pokemon fainting, or a double switch.

 

[Synthesis]

Yeah, it's always best to play safely at the start until you realise your opponent's playstyle. I didn't realise that people even used Shed Shell back then, but I guess Magnezone was quite a threat then, especially after Garchomp was banned from OU.

 

[Takaki]

Even with team preview, I'd say that other events have caused Dugtrio to generally increase in viability. It gets free switch-ins off of Thunderus-T (It loves gobbling on the choiced sets), it's access to Rock Slide give it a way to pick off the Therians, Jirachi has seen a rise in popularity and power so being able to trap it is fantastic, it eliminates basically every threat to sun including Heatran which makes it a great partner to Genesect and also the new move Volt Switch means it gets easier chances to trap stuff, forcing the opponent to play suboptimally.

 

[Angad]

Even with team preview, I'd say that other events have caused Dugtrio to generally increase in viability. It gets free switch-ins off of Thunderus-T (It loves gobbling on the choiced sets), it's access to Rock Slide give it a way to pick off the Therians, Jirachi has seen a rise in popularity and power so being able to trap it is fantastic, it eliminates basically every threat to sun including Heatran which makes it a great partner to Genesect and also the new move Volt Switch means it gets easier chances to trap stuff, forcing the opponent to play suboptimally.

Pretty much True, but it's attack stab is a little underwhelming, so it really needs to use Stone Edge.

 

[Takaki]

I disagree, Stone Edge doesn't guarantee a KO on either of the Theriens after Stealth Rocks whilst both 2HKO. I think the reliability is superior here (As for Dragonite and Mence the HP Ice set is best).

 

[Synthesis]

Even with team preview, I'd say that other events have caused Dugtrio to generally increase in viability. It gets free switch-ins off of Thunderus-T (It loves gobbling on the choiced sets), it's access to Rock Slide give it a way to pick off the Therians, Jirachi has seen a rise in popularity and power so being able to trap it is fantastic, it eliminates basically every threat to sun including Heatran which makes it a great partner to Genesect and also the new move Volt Switch means it gets easier chances to trap stuff, forcing the opponent to play suboptimally.

Good points, but even with Thundurus/Volt Switch Pokemon it's a bad idea taking the risk of them using another move, even a resisted one, unless you know for sure. Dug is really too frail to take any hits and you risk breaking the sash if you're running that.

Specs Gothitelle seems like a better trapper against most things now. It can also cripple or KO stall-oriented Pokemon like Ferrothorn, the pink blobs, Jellicent, etc.

 

[~Aeon]

Team preview makes it much easier to predict an opponents play style, and even sets. You don't have to worry about flying types or Heatrans or ground types or whatever eating your attacks with immunities because now you know these immunities exist on your opponents team. Team preview helps certain pokes, like dugtrio, which I saw mentioned before. Others, it hurts. Zoroark would probably be much more useful without team preview cause your opponent wouldn't know you have it.

For Thunderus-T, Duggy could work, provided they don't use a different attack. That would be bad. There are better options to use against Thunderous-T. Duggy is better for pokes like Ninetails, Tyranitar, maybe even Lati@s and Gengar.

I've never used a specs Gothitelle, but that description makes me want to try it out.

 

[Fabled]

Team preview makes it much easier to predict an opponents play style, and even sets. You don't have to worry about flying types or Heatrans or ground types or whatever eating your attacks with immunities because now you know these immunities exist on your opponents team. Team preview helps certain pokes, like dugtrio, which I saw mentioned before. Others, it hurts. Zoroark would probably be much more useful without team preview cause your opponent wouldn't know you have it.

I disagree. Team preview is a double-edged sword, and while you can see their team, they can see yours, figure out your potential strategies, etc. If anything, you do now need to watch out for the Pokemon that they will keep specifically to counter your mons, and just watch out for the fact that they have the same benefits as you do.

I also disagree on the point about Zoroark. Many people dislike him but I am an avid fan, and many people theorymon about how he's technically not as good as he could be because fraility and Illusions being easy to predict, etc. But he's a part of my favourite OU team atm, and I think that team preview really helps Zoroark when you use him right. It keeps your opponent guessing, because they do know that they have him, and I've had opponents second guess themselves before based purely on team preview. I've had people try to counter a potential Zoroark scout lead, as opposed to what I actually sent out, and people trying to counter whatever my lead actually is compared to Zoroark. Team Preview really helps you play mind games with him early game, imo.

 

[~Aeon]

Team preview makes it much easier to predict an opponents play style, and even sets. You don't have to worry about flying types or Heatrans or ground types or whatever eating your attacks with immunities because now you know these immunities exist on your opponents team. Team preview helps certain pokes, like dugtrio, which I saw mentioned before. Others, it hurts. Zoroark would probably be much more useful without team preview cause your opponent wouldn't know you have it.

I disagree. Team preview is a double-edged sword, and while you can see their team, they can see yours, figure out your potential strategies, etc. If anything, you do now need to watch out for the Pokemon that they will keep specifically to counter your mons, and just watch out for the fact that they have the same benefits as you do.

I also disagree on the point about Zoroark. Many people dislike him but I am an avid fan, and many people theorymon about how he's technically not as good as he could be because fraility and Illusions being easy to predict, etc. But he's a part of my favourite OU team atm, and I think that team preview really helps Zoroark when you use him right. It keeps your opponent guessing, because they do know that they have him, and I've had opponents second guess themselves before based purely on team preview. I've had people try to counter a potential Zoroark scout lead, as opposed to what I actually sent out, and people trying to counter whatever my lead actually is compared to Zoroark. Team Preview really helps you play mind games with him early game, imo.

hmm... That's true about the mind games, especially if your good about who you use for the illusion. However, I think it'd be better on a no preview team, cause they don't even know it's coming. I actually may use one for a no preview frontier battler, but that's beside the point. I'm not smart enough for the mind games though. I think that strategy purely depends on what your actual lead is though. If they share weaknesses you could be done in an instant, cause they'll have both covered.