BBL: Weekly Discussion #1 ~ Garchomp

[UB-01 Kenobi]

The Bulbagarden Battle League was designed for two reasons: to give competitive battlers a fun challenge, and more importantly, as a gateway into competitive battling for new players and casuals alike. The Gym Leaders use competitive teams and strategies while encouraging challengers to think of new strategies and test their teambuilding skills by forcing them to design a team that can handle at least 8 different Pokémon types and 8 different competitive strategies. However, we're not merciless - we don't expect you to do all this on your own if you're new! In order to help layers new to competitive battling, I would like to formally introduce the BBL Weekly Discussion Program. In this program, Gym Leaders take an aspect of the game, typically a Pokémon, but sometimes a move, Ability, team dynamic, or strategy, and analyze it's uses, it's counters, and how to fit it onto a team. Anybody who frequents the Battle Center is encouraged to join the discussion, asking questions about the subject, offering ideas that were unmentioned in the analysis, etc. BBL challengers are encouraged to use these analyses to try and incorporate the topics into their own teams if they like them, or learn how to counter them should they be encountered over the course of their Gym Challenge. With that, I would like to present BBL Weekly Discussion #1: Garchomp!


BBL PotW #1: Garchomp
Garchomp. That name strikes fear into the heart of competitive and casual players alike, bringing back bad memories of swept teams or wiping to Cynthia in one of her many appearances. This monster is a pseudo-legendary Pokémon known for its versatility, with sets ranging from speedy to bulky that all share one thing in common: devastating offensive power. This week, we'll be talking about how to use Garchomp, how to counter it, and what sort of teams that Garchomp fits onto.

IN-DEPTH LOOK

Garchomp
Type: Dragon/Ground
Ability: Sand Veil (illegal), Rough Skin
Stats: 108/130/95/80/85/102

Mega Garchomp
Type: Dragon/Ground
Ability: Sand Force
Stats: 108/170/115/120/95/92

SETS

ChainChomp

Garchomp @ Garchompite
Rough Skin --> Sand Force
Naive
16 Atk/252 Sp Atk/240 Speed
~Draco Meteor
~Earthquake
~Fire Blast/Iron Head/Stone Edge/Swords Dance
~Swords Dance/Fire Blast/Aqua Tail/Surf/Poison Jab

ChainChomp was conceived in Generation IV as Choice Specs Garchomp and was given the catchy name later. It was designed to lure physical walls and then cripple them with a Specs Draco Meteor or Fire Blast. The item was later changed to Life Orb and Swords Dance was added to the set in order to allow better baiting - tricking opponents into switching in a wall by aggressively going for Swords Dance at the first opportunity, killing the wall with Draco Meteor or Fire Blast, and then cleaning house with +2 Earthquakes. While it was a good idea, Garchomp's low Special Attack kept it from becoming a mainstream set. Mega Garchomp, however, changes all that with its nuclear 170/120 attacking stats, granting a hefty 192/172 mixed Attack stats at level 50 with the given EV spread.

Draco Meteor is the STAB move of choice, doing hefty damage to anything that doesn't resist it. Earthquake complements it nicely, hitting many Steels and Specially Defensive Pokémon while not caring about the Special Attack drop. With STAB and Sand Force, Earthquake reaches a frightening 195 power. The last two slots are up to preference. With a base 170 Attack and primary attacking move with effective 150 or 195 power, Swords Dance can easily be forgone. It is nice, however, in order to ensure that you OHKO pretty much the entire goddamn metagame and to bait walls who assume that you are a physical sweeper. Fire Blast is the preferred option to hit Steels like Ferrothorn and Skarmory who don't care about Earthquake. Iron Head, with the Sand Force boost, hits 104 BP and hits Togekiss (who walls you) hard. Stone Edge hits 130 power and does the same but better, but lacks accuracy. However, it is notable for being Chomp's best move to hit Mandibuzz, a prominent wall that threatens Garchomp with Foul Play and immunity to the land shark's beloved Sandstorm. Aqua Tail and Surf can both be used to surprise Air Balloon Heatran or counter Rain teams, but are not really that great. Poison Jab hits Azumarill, but the compination of Iron Head and Earthquake hits all the other OU relevant Fairies (Mawile, Klefki, Togekiss, Gardevoir, Clefable, Florges, Sylveon) super effectively already and Earthquake hits Azumarill decently hard already.

Team support for ChainChomp is simple: sand and speed. Tyranitar and Hippowdon are practical necessities, setting up Sandstorm in order to activate Sand Rush while setting Stealth Rock to help ChainChomp sweep. A second slot should go to Shuckle, Mandibuzz, Galvantula, Talonflame, or Leavanny. Sticky Web or Tailwind greatly increases ChainChomp's destructive power, helping to prevent revenge killing.

Countering ChainChomp is harder. The best are fast Levitating or Flying Pokémon who can OHKO Garchomp, such as Scarfed Hydreigon or Latios, who can switch in on a predicted EQ and then obliterate Garchomp with a Draco Meteor. Mega Aggron is not 2HKOed by Fire Blast if he is 252/252+ HP/Sp Def (a common EV spread) and can phaze with Dragon Tail, but not much else. Mandibuzz can take a Draco Meteor then a Stone Edge and can 2HKO with Foul Play if there is a little bit of prior damage. Gyarados can switch in on Earthquake or Fire Blast, then Mega Evolve and Ice Fang. With Intimidate, Garchomp usually cannot 2HKO with EQ or Draco Meteor+Earthquake assuming you switched in on Earthquake or Fire Blast while Ice Fang has a 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

ChoiceChomp

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf/Choice Band
Rough Skin
Jolly/Adamant
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
~Outrage
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge
~Dragon Claw/Dual Chop/Iron Head/Poison Jab/Aqua Tail

ScarfChomp is one of the game's better events killers, but it has lost potency with the prominence of priority in the XY metagame. It still has its uses, but struggles to find a team slot when Talonflame does so much better than it and most sweepers that it may wish to stop (such as Crawdaunt, Azumarill, (Mega) Scizor, and (Mega) Lucario) pack priority that let them overcome ScarfChomp's blistering Speed. He does still have his uses, as a fast, STAB Outrage off of a fully invested 130 Attack stat is nothing to be scoffed at. BandChomp packs more Attack than Mega Garchomp would even fully invested, but it is frailer, locks itself into a single move, and does not have any Special Attacking presence whatsoever, making it an inferior wallbreaker. It is a great wrecking ball, however, weakening teams so a sweeper can clean up.

Outrage is the main move, while Earthquake hits Steels. Stone Edge hits Mandibuzz, Togekiss, Volcarona, etcetera, and can nail Mega Pinsir on the switch (Garchomp does fear the STAB Aerilate a Quick Attack, however, so do not attempt to stay in and go for a second if you miss). A secondary Dragon Stab works well in the last slot - Dragon Claw has perfect accuracy while Dual Chop breaks Substitutes. If you wish to forgo the second STAB move and opt for more coverage, Iron Head can nail Gardevoir, Sylveon, Florges, and Togekiss, but Poison Jab is preferred on this set as it can hit Azumarill and you lack Sand Force. Aqua Tail should only be used on a Rain team or as a Rain counter if you have trouble with them.

Countering ScarfChomp is easy. Unlike ChainChomp, physical walls like Slowbro (who can pack Ice Beam) have a field day with it, especially if it's locked into a resisted move. Fairies can force out a ScarfChomp locked into a Dragon move. And any revenge killer, sweeper, or wallbreaker packing priority sends it running with its tail between its legs. This goes the same for BandChomp, although walls should be wary as it can break through them with even neutral STAB Outrages. Skarmory and Ferrothron are good choices to wall BandChomp, but anything that resists or is immune to its current move works. It is even more susceptible than ScarfChomp to being revenge killed, however.

WallChomp

Garchomp @ Garchompite/Leftovers/Rocky Helmet
Rough Skin --> Sand Force
Impish
248 HP/252 Def/8 Sp Def
~Stealth Rock/Protect
~Dragon Tail
~Earthquake
~Toxic

Garchomp' above average 108 HP and good 95/85 (or great 115/95 if you go Mega) lets it pull off a surprisingly effective wall/utility set. Stealth Rock is the best hazard in the game, but you could squeeze Protect in there if you already have a setter. If you don't, always use Stealth Rock over Protect, but Protect can come in handy for Toxic stalling. Dragon Tail hurts coming off of 130 (or 170) Attack and STAB, even uninvested, and phazes anybody who might wish to set up on you. It also helps you spread Toxic poison if you have no better statuses to spread. Earthquake is good for Steels and hurts even more than Dragon Tail, especially under Sandstorm if you're Mega. This should be your main move against opposing support mons or just to do damage once you're done spreading Toxic and setting Rocks. Toxic is there to wear down things you can't efficiently take out and to support the team.

Countering a WallChomp is pretty easy. Mandibuzz Defogs your Rocks, then can Foul Play with impunity as the best you can do is Dragon Tail. Gyarados does the same, but with Ice Fang (and can't Defog). Gliscor loves to be Toxic'd and can Ice Fang you. Crobat is immune to Toxic and Earthquake and can Defog your hazards. So on and so forth. Also, fast or physically bulky special attacking Pokémon packing Ice moves just ruin your day if they manage to switch in safely.

The biggest dilemma you'll find running WallChomp is which item to use. Leftovers is your only recovery at all, but Mega Garchomp has straight up superior bulk and can hit much harder. Rocky Helmet lets you punish users of contact moves, stripping away 7/24s (more than a quarter) of their health each turn when you take Rough Skin into account. All have their pros, but except on teams having trouble with specific physical sweepers that Rocky Helmet + Rough Skin counters, Leftovers or the Mega Stone is typically the superior option. Then Mega Stone should be used if you have Wish support or don't care about passive damage and little hits wearing you down, Leftovers otherwise.

Physical Attacker

Garchomp @ Garchompite/Life Orb
Rough Skin --> Sand Force
Adamant/Jolly
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Speed
~Outrage
~Earthquake
~Stone Edge/Iron Head
~Swords Dance/Dual Chop/Aqua Tail

A pure physical set still does wonders, as a fully invested (Mega) Garchomp is terrifying once it gets a Swords Dance up. Outrage is the main STAB, Earthquake is secondary STAB that hits Steels. Normal Garchomp should always run Stone Edge, while Mega Garchomp can use Iron Head is accuracy is a problem, so long as you have Sandstorm support. Swords Dance let's you O or 2HKO pretty much entire metagame outside of supreme physical walls with good typings like Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress. When going Mega, it can be forgone for Dual Chop (breaks Subs and doesn't lock and confuse you) or Aqua Tail (if Garchomp is on a Rain team). Sand support is desired for Mega variations, while both appreciate Sticky Web or Tailwind.

Counters come down to physical walls (like the three mentioned above). Unaware Quagsire is a good choice, ignoring Garchomp's Swords Dances and responding with Ice Beam. Other than that, either variation is easily revenge killed with fast Ice or Dragon type move users.

GARCHOMP AS A TEAM PLAYER

Garchomp loves Sandstorm and Sticky Web. In return, it offers supreme physical coverage and power in addition to above average bulk. It fits on any sort of team due to its supreme versatility. Here is an example of a team that Garchomp would shine on:

Shuckle @ Binding Band
Sturdy
Impish
252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp Def
~Sticky Web
~Stealth Rock
~Infestation
~Toxic

Shuckle's job is to set Sticky Web and Stealth Rock without dying. It should be saved to reset these hazards multiple times. If they don't have a Spinner or Defogger left and you're all done using Defog, it can stall lots of things with Binding Band Sand Tomb + Toxic.

Tyranitar

Sets Sand. An Assault Vest set would be great, or an offensive one, or a utility one, anything you want.

Hippowdon @ Smooth Rock

Also sets Sand. Sand is important. Physical Wall.

Mandibuzz @ Leftovers
Overcoat
~Defog

or

Excadrill
Sand Rush
~Rapid Spin

Removes hazards. Mandibuzz adds type diversity and a second wall (or third, if Tyranitar is acting as a Special wall). Excadrill increases your offensive presence and does not remove your own hazards, making Shuckle's job easier.

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Magic Guard
Modest
~Calm Mind
~Psychic
~Focus Blast
~Shadow Ball

Powerful and threatening Special Offense, can outspeed some slower things with Sticky Web. Great tank, adds type diversity.

ChainChomp

The main man, the Mega, the monster. With Sticky Web up, a sweep becomes feasible - if you have taken out the opponent's priority users. Otherwise, he softens walls and takes out sweepers so Reuniclus, Tyranitar, or Excadrill can clean house.

~~~~~~~~

Thanks for reading! Post your thoughts, propose your own ideas on how to use or counter Garchomp, and feel free to ask questions - our Gym Leaders will endeavor to answer anything you might ask.

 

[Codface]

Here is a list of the top 20 used OU Pokemon on Smogons simulator. Next to it I have put the likely outcome of a battle between Garchomp and said pokemon.

| 1 | Rotom-Wash Needs to one shot or is getting burnt and will watch the damage get rested off.
| 2 | Talonflame Takes a hit at least. WoW builds can ruin your chomp and will roost stall him dead.
| 3 | Lucario Faster and does 70% damage with close combat on mega. EQ will kill it in 1 shot though.
| 4 | Genesect Ignored as sim only pokemon
| 5 | Aegislash Has priority but should be then killed easily.
| 6 | Heatran Balloon version likely so you'd take a hit 20-30%
| 7 | Garchomp Regular version is faster and beats on mega
| 8 | Greninja Beats Garchomp everytime too fast and ice beam owns.
| 9 | Scizor Beats Scizor but always takes 30-40% damage. most likely takes two priority hits
| 10 | Excadrill Balloon versions get a hit in unless +2 and outrage. Does about 50% damage
| 11 | Ferrothorn Needs Fire move. Rocky helm and such hurt otherwise
| 12 | Gliscor Needs Ice Move or will end up poisoned and possibly stalled
| 13 | Tyranitar Should easy beat this guy unless its mega and has preboosted
| 14 | Azumarill Garchomp hits it and gets killed by play rough or Azu can actually Belly Drum set up in chomps face then kill it with Aqua Jet.
| 15 | Dragonite Beaten soundly unless scarf version. Outcome of battle is a 40% hp Dragonite with a Dragon Dance boost up.
| 16 | Gengar Does 50% damage but is easily killed
| 17 | Charizard Gets a hit in. Charizard X will kill Garchomp most likely as it is faster. Boosted Charizard X walks through chomp.
| 18 | Skarmory Need fire move then should win
| 19 | Landorus-Therian Weakens you going forward and outspeeds out with uturn. Turns Chomp into set up bait.
| 20 | Espeon Takes about 60% damage but can kill it.

As you can see Garchomp is not going to be going through a whole team no matter how many Sword Dances he pulls off. He has no priority and no dragon dance speed up. Basically he checks regular Talonflame and that is it. There are too many pokemon which have no problem what so ever with this guy or can remove him if he is slightly damaged.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

You are correct that it can't sweep teams - you'll notice that 'prone to revenge killing' is mentioned by every set somewhere. But it can do severe damage to anything switching in, especially the ChainChomp variation. This makes it one of the best wallbreakers in the tier, as depending on what coverage moves it runs it can be almost impossible to switch into.


| 1 | Rotom-Wash Assuming physically defensive, Draco does significant damage. Mega Garchomp blocks Volt Switch, cannot be Tricked.
| 2 | Talonflame Cannot switch into Garchomp. Cannot beat Garchomp. Can revenge Garchomp.
| 3 | Lucario Cannot switch into Garchomp. Can dent or revenge if brought in safely.
| 4 | Genesect Ignored as sim only pokemon
| 5 | Aegislash Cannot switch in safely. Can get off weak hit before dying.
| 6 | Heatran Balloon can switch in. Cannot really do anything, does not like Sand Force Stone Edge.
| 7 | Garchomp Regular version is faster and beats on mega, but is beaten by Scarf version
| 8 | Greninja Cannot switch in. Will always revenge.
| 9 | Scizor Obliterated by Fire Blast
| 10 | Excadrill Obliterated by Fire Blast
| 11 | Ferrothorn Obliterated by Fire Blast
| 12 | Gliscor Does not like Draco, Fire Blast, or Aqua Tail
| 13 | Tyranitar Does not like EQ or Iron Head
| 14 | Azumarill Killed by Poison Jab, can revenge if Garchomp is weakened
| 15 | Dragonite Beats Garchomp 1v1 every time, assuming Multiscale is up (cannot switch in unless on an EQ)
| 16 | Gengar Cannot switch in
| 17 | Charizard Can switch in on EQ pre-Mega and win with Outrage. Loses if it is already a mega Evolved and Sticky Web is up. Loses if it switches in on Stone Edge.
| 18 | Skarmory Obliterated by Fire Blast
| 19 | Landorus-Therian Does not like Draco, Fire Blast, or Aqua Tail. Cripples pure physical variants.
| 20 | Espeon Cannot switch in.

As you can see, none of these are hard counters (can switch in on any move and proceed to kill or force out). I maintain that the best way to deal with Garchomp is a revenge kill or a prediction that let's you bring in something (Flier, Fairy, Steel) on an immunity (EQ, Draco/Outrage, Poison Jab). Obviously the second is high risk high reward while the first requires a sacrifice but is pretty much guaranteed to work.

 

[Codface]

Everything you argue is the same for haxorus. Nothing can switch happy vs either. Difference is hax gets taunt and can sweep a team. Chomps only at 7 based on talonflame counter other than that its a one for one no difference pokemon imo.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Everything you argue is the same for haxorus. Nothing can switch happy vs either. Difference is hax gets taunt and can sweep a team. Chomps only at 7 based on talonflame counter other than that its a one for one no difference pokemon imo.

Chomp has secondary STAB and can go mixed, Haxorus has to be pure physical. Hax's only plus is he can boost his speed. Also, Garchomp has a better base Speed - ScarfChomp can revenge kill Mega Charizard X after a Dragon Dance, Haxorus can't. As a matter of fact, Haxorus can't be an effective revenge killer at all. Or a wall. Garchomp can do both of those things.

 

[Codface]

Scarf chomp as a wifi revenge killer I do like. He is less predictably scarf than hydragon coming in and terrakion is none hexagon (xy) so will be a much rarer option.

I still think his best use is in doubles and his high singles usage is based on the flawed mega version being cool looking. The sword dance and mega sets are too easily stopped.

 

[BadAssKoala]

In my opinion as much as I love garchomp haxorus is better. Haxorus has dragon dance so it can sweep. But it also has mold breaker which means it ignores sturdy, and multi scale. A dragon claw from a haxorus OHKOs Dragonite every time. While a outrage from chomp does not.

 

[SharKing]

I've been using Mega ChainChomp on PO, and although it can't always sweep by itself, it does a good job of removing dangerous Pokémon by surprising them (people seem to always expect Swords Dance, therefore pure physical). Still, there are definitely better Megas out there.

Also, one little thing for the OP:

Shuckle @ Binding Band
Sturdy
Impish
252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp Def
~Sticky Web
~Stealth Rock
~Sand Tomb
~Toxic

Infestation > Sand Tomb. It's more accurate and can hit Flying-types. The damage coming straight from either move is negligible anyway.

 

[DasManiac]

I'd also recommend Cyrogonal as a switch in. Jolly Nature + Levitate can do some serious damage on Garchomp. Another choice I use is Blastoise due to it's bulk. Generally using Blastoise I can survive three Earthquakes and use Ice Beam to whittle down Garchomp's health. Ludicolo is also another option believe or not to counter Garchomp. It resists Earthquake and is neutral to Fire Blast. Plus with Great speed, and in a double battle he proves to be a great ally with Blastoise or Cryogonal. I would personally recommend Cyrogonal over Blastoise though. Now obviously Fire Blast is going to be a threat so Rain Dance would actually come in handy. It would also help Ludicolo since it has access to two good abilities: Swift Swim and Rain Dish. As for held items, Ludicolo would carry the Damp Rock to keep Rain lasting long enough to take out a likely Talonflame switch in since everybody is using Talonflame now. Swift Swim should allow Ludicolo since Flame Body is its primary ability and one Hydro Pump should be sufficient in Rain. If we're talking showdown or other online simulators, people are undoubtedly going to have Gale Wings instead. So yeah my strategy is unconventional but it works.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Scarf chomp as a wifi revenge killer I do like. He is less predictably scarf than hydragon coming in and terrakion is none hexagon (xy) so will be a much rarer option.

I still think his best use is in doubles and his high singles usage is based on the flawed mega version being cool looking. The sword dance and mega sets are too easily stopped.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree - in my opinion, Garchomp's unpredictability makes him one of the game's better wallbreakers. Until you know what coverage moves he has, it's impossible to switch into him.

In my opinion as much as I love garchomp haxorus is better. Haxorus has dragon dance so it can sweep. But it also has mold breaker which means it ignores sturdy, and multi scale. A dragon claw from a haxorus OHKOs Dragonite every time. While a outrage from chomp does not.

Haxorus outclasses Garchomp as a sweeper, but Garchomp is not a sweeper. Garchomp is primarily a wallbreaker and can function as a wall or a revenge killer. As such' they're not really comparable at all. A better comparison for Haxorus would be Mega Charizard X, Dragonite, Salamence... offensive Dragon Damce sweepers.

I've been using Mega ChainChomp on PO, and although it can't always sweep by itself, it does a good job of removing dangerous Pokémon by surprising them (people seem to always expect Swords Dance, therefore pure physical). Still, there are definitely better Megas out there.

Also, one little thing for the OP:

Shuckle @ Binding Band
Sturdy
Impish
252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp Def
~Sticky Web
~Stealth Rock
~Sand Tomb
~Toxic

Infestation > Sand Tomb. It's more accurate and can hit Flying-types. The damage coming straight from either move is negligible anyway.

Definitely better Megas - Lucario, Mawile, either Charizard... But ChainChomp is unpredictable and hard to counter, so I would say it's never a bad choice - you just have to know if there would be a better choice.

Also, thanks! You're totally right, updated the OP.

I'd also recommend Cyrogonal as a switch in. Jolly Nature + Levitate can do some serious damage on Garchomp. Another choice I use is Blastoise due to it's bulk. Generally using Blastoise I can survive three Earthquakes and use Ice Beam to whittle down Garchomp's health. Ludicolo is also another option believe or not to counter Garchomp. It resists Earthquake and is neutral to Fire Blast. Plus with Great speed, and in a double battle he proves to be a great ally with Blastoise or Cryogonal. I would personally recommend Cyrogonal over Blastoise though. Now obviously Fire Blast is going to be a threat so Rain Dance would actually come in handy. It would also help Ludicolo since it has access to two good abilities: Swift Swim and Rain Dish. As for held items, Ludicolo would carry the Damp Rock to keep Rain lasting long enough to take out a likely Talonflame switch in since everybody is using Talonflame now. Swift Swim should allow Ludicolo since Flame Body is its primary ability and one Hydro Pump should be sufficient in Rain. If we're talking showdown or other online simulators, people are undoubtedly going to have Gale Wings instead. So yeah my strategy is unconventional but it works.

The problem is that Cryoganal is not OU relevant and Ludicolomis a niche option at best. While they may work to some extent, they will not be mentioned in any if these weekly discussions, since we don't want new players to get confused and think that they are viable options in OU.

 

[BadAssKoala]

I thought the conversation was about garchomps sweeping capabilities. As wall breaking stands I'd certainly agree Garchomp is one of the best in OU right now.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

I thought the conversation was about garchomps sweeping capabilities. As wall breaking stands I'd certainly agree Garchomp is one of the best in OU right now.

The discussion is about Garchomp. That includes both sweeping and wallbreaking.