Beware of the Battle Analyser

[The Outrage]

I'm guessing they let their guard down because of the 3DS's "uncrackable" status (which as we all know is a bit of a farce)

I was talking about this with my friend and basically concluded the reason its been uncrackable for so long is because Pokemon wasn't on it yet

Yeah, the 3DS still hasn't been cracked (if you ignore the Diancie, Hoopa, and Volcanion leak), but look what Pokemon fans have achieved. They've found a way to analyze incoming data from online transmissions to basically guarantee egg hatching. There's a guy who modified the 3DS so that it can automatically catch Shiny Pokemon for you.

It really is obvious Game Freak didn't think their fans could do this--why else would they have left the event legendaries and mega stones in the game's data structure if they thought we couldn't hack it? Unless of course, they left that data in simply to see if someone could hack the game. After all, would you believe someone who hacked the game and said "There's nothing there" or someone who hacked the game and provided you with pictures?

 

[randomspot555]

The 3DS being uncrackable has much more to do about preventing piracy measures than being anything about hacking, Action Replay, or game research/game info dumping. Those are just side effects. And to be honest, those side effects have also withstood the test. All of these things that are being done are being done outside of the game (Instacheck, Battle Analyzer), requiring no modification to the actual game itself.

And for the most part, the 3DS has withstood that test in terms of piracy. Compared to the DS or PSP, it is an absolute hassle to mod a 3DS to run homebrew. Could that change in the future? I suppose. But I doubt it.

 

[Stratelier]

That is, in Team Preview, the only information is the opponent's Pokemon and whether or not they are holding an item.

The only flaw to that part is that a complete copy of the Pokemon's data (and not just some compiled digest of it) could be a necessary antihack measure, to verify that data between the two systems is consistent (which in turn helps ensure that attack outcomes between systems are consistent). You can probably guess an opponent's strategy by their moveset, but it doesn't guarantee you can counter it like being able to see their current move confirmed before you decide yours.

Indeed. I kinda already understood how the analyser works with the way the games communicate, and I really must admit Game Freak weren't very clever in the way that they made the information get shared. I mean come on, if they felt the need to secure the GTS servers, why not battles too? I'm guessing they let their guard down because of the 3DS's "uncrackable" status (which as we all know is a bit of a farce)

What random said above me. Nobody's hacked the game's code itself, they've just managed to finagle with the communications between game/server.

(And on a tangent: Last I heard Datel did have a 3DS Action Replay, but it was actually just a 3DS version of their DS Action Replay. Probably because Nintendo 'blacklisted' the original DS Action Replay so it won't play on a 3DS at all.)

 

[The Outrage]

The only flaw to that part is that a complete copy of the Pokemon's data (and not just some compiled digest of it) could be a necessary antihack measure, to verify that data between the two systems is consistent (which in turn helps ensure that attack outcomes between systems are consistent).

But it doesn't make sense as to why the other 3DS should be privileged to that information in the first place. There's absolutely no reason why any more information past the Pokemon and whether an item is held should be transmitted back to the opponent's DS for Team Preview.

You can probably guess an opponent's strategy by their moveset, but it doesn't guarantee you can counter it like being able to see their current move confirmed before you decide yours.

And it's more or less confirmed that Battle Analyser lets you see the move your opponent chose, I don't really see why we're getting back on that issue again, especially when this isn't relevant in terms of the Team Preview issue.

 

[Faye Scarlet]

GF better stop this crap or this is going to truly kill online battling.

Are we really freaking out over this? Augh, I wish people would cut out the high-and-mighty attitude against hackers. ._. How is the game "ruined", just because your opponent can now see what you're doing? There are MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people playing Pokemon, a majority of which are too young to know how to use a program like this. Just how likely are you to actually run into someone who is using this program? Mother of god, I'm seriously angry at how everyone is like "welp no more online battles for me", nothing could sound sillier.

I have no problem with hackers using Pokegen and Pokesav to get perfect teams but hell no i'm not gonna sit here quietly while this type of crap is running around. And are you seriously defending this? This destroys the entire point of online battling wich is prediction and strategy.

I'm not defending anyone who actually uses the Battle Analyser, I'm just saying people are freaking out and panicking and jumping to conclusions too soon. It's not like EVERY SINGLE freakin' random trainer you run into will be using this. It's honestly very silly to hear cries of "RUINED FOREVER". Why should a small handful of Pokemon players "ruin" the fun of battling? This kind of senseless panic is just what hackers want. The only thing "ruined" is the amount of people claiming battles online are now "ruined". It's only ruined if you let it be ruined.

 

[Supreme Leader Palpitoad]

They will ruin competitive battling just when I started! Crap! Why can people not realize that a fair lose is better than an unfair win? GF fix this!

 

[Norzan]

GF better stop this crap or this is going to truly kill online battling.

Are we really freaking out over this? Augh, I wish people would cut out the high-and-mighty attitude against hackers. ._. How is the game "ruined", just because your opponent can now see what you're doing? There are MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people playing Pokemon, a majority of which are too young to know how to use a program like this. Just how likely are you to actually run into someone who is using this program? Mother of god, I'm seriously angry at how everyone is like "welp no more online battles for me", nothing could sound sillier.

I have no problem with hackers using Pokegen and Pokesav to get perfect teams but hell no i'm not gonna sit here quietly while this type of crap is running around. And are you seriously defending this? This destroys the entire point of online battling wich is prediction and strategy.

I'm not defending anyone who actually uses the Battle Analyser, I'm just saying people are freaking out and panicking and jumping to conclusions too soon. It's not like EVERY SINGLE freakin' random trainer you run into will be using this. It's honestly very silly to hear cries of "RUINED FOREVER". Why should a small handful of Pokemon players "ruin" the fun of battling? This kind of senseless panic is just what hackers want. The only thing "ruined" is the amount of people claiming battles online are now "ruined". It's only ruined if you let it be ruined.

People are freaking out because this crap is going to spread, alot more people are going to use this crap just to win wi fi battles wich means bigger chance of running into somebody using this crap. Same thing happened with Pokegen and Pokesav, a few people started using it and after a while alot of people started using because they were too lazy to make a team. So yeah if this crap spreads (wich is defintely going to) it is going to ruin competitive battling.

 

[bluestarfish]

They will ruin competitive battling just when I started! Crap! Why can people not realize that a fair lose is better than an unfair win? GF fix this!

If you read the whole thread (or just the last 10 or so posts) you'll notice that Nintendo has turned off rated battles right now. So it's either already ruined or they're working on a patch to fix it.

People are freaking out because this crap is going to spread, alot more people are going to use this crap just to win wi fi battles wich means bigger chance of running into somebody using this crap. Same thing happened with Pokegen and Pokesav, a few people started using it and after a while alot of people started using because they were too lazy to make a team. So yeah if this crap spreads (wich is defintely going to) it is going to ruin competitive battling.

Nugget bridge is working on an app to counter battle analyser apparently, (basically it'll feed the battle analyser a bunch of different sets of pokemon so it's harder to guess exactly what attack/pokemon is being chosen and such).

 

[Phoenix502]

Nugget bridge is working on an app to counter battle analyser apparently, (basically it'll feed the battle analyser a bunch of different sets of pokemon so it's harder to guess exactly what attack/pokemon is being chosen and such).

a scrambler program, now that's an idea... heck, perhaps they could submit it to GF and ask if they could use that in their patch. I'm sure that aught to earn some brownie points from them, right? gives the impression that many fans will not tolerate cheating and will help out and stuff :-D

Same thing happened with Pokegen and Pokesav, a few people started using it and after a while alot of people started using because they were too lazy to make a team. So yeah if this crap spreads (wich is defintely going to) it is going to ruin competitive battling.

it aught to be worth noting that before, IV Breeding and all that stuff to make a prime competitive team is very tedious and would take practically forever to get done, and not everyone has that kind of time or patience. Pokegen and Pokesav may be alienating those who do it the long and difficult manner, but it provided the competitive metagame much more access to many players.

besides, even if people were to use Pokemon generators, they'll likely be using something as a reference and duplicating it. so while you'll probably find plenty of people with the same high class team, if you got a counter against it, there's not much they can do about it. it'll still boil down to strategy, and I have a distinct feeling generated teams will typically not really vary in what options they can use...

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

it aught to be worth noting that before, IV Breeding and all that stuff to make a prime competitive team is very tedious and would take practically forever to get done, and not everyone has that kind of time or patience. Pokegen and Pokesav may be alienating those who do it the long and difficult manner, but it provided the competitive metagame much more access to many players.

besides, even if people were to use Pokemon generators, they'll likely be using something as a reference and duplicating it. so while you'll probably find plenty of people with the same high class team, if you got a counter against it, there's not much they can do about it. it'll still boil down to strategy, and I have a distinct feeling generated teams will typically not really vary in what options they can use...

While PokeGen and PokeSac aren't bad in and of themselves (although IMO if you're too lazy to breed and trade for your team you should play on a sim instead of cheating), they serve as proof of concept. If you make cheating easy, many people will start doing it until it becomes ubiquitous, showing that the people complaining about competitive battlers overreacting really don't fully understand the situation. If it is not stopped, the Analyzer will spread and it will ruin rated Wi-Fi. (it will not, however, ruin competitive battling. Pokemon Showdown does exist, guys.) I'm glad Nintendo is at least doing something about this and I look forward to rating battles reopening! but in the meantime I'll get my battling done on Showdown and over Wi-Fi with other Bulbagarden members.

 

[Stratelier]

I'm not defending anyone who actually uses the Battle Analyser, I'm just saying people are freaking out and panicking and jumping to conclusions too soon. It's not like EVERY SINGLE freakin' random trainer you run into will be using this. It's honestly very silly to hear cries of "RUINED FOREVER". Why should a small handful of Pokemon players "ruin" the fun of battling? This kind of senseless panic is just what hackers want. The only thing "ruined" is the amount of people claiming battles online are now "ruined". It's only ruined if you let it be ruined.

People are freaking out because this crap is going to spread, alot more people are going to use this crap just to win wi fi battles wich means bigger chance of running into somebody using this crap. Same thing happened with Pokegen and Pokesav, a few people started using it and after a while alot of people started using because they were too lazy to make a team. So yeah if this crap spreads (wich is defintely going to) it is going to ruin competitive battling.

Anyone remember Mario Kart DS and its snaking controversy? In my experience, it started out with finding only an occasional player here and there seeming to inexplicably end up with a 5+ second lead by the finish line, but three months later, it seemed like half of the players I got connected with were always Yoshi/Dry Bones snaking the Egg-1/Dry Bomber.

 

[Saro]

So it simply means they can sneak a peek at the cards in your hand.... sure it's an unsettling development as it gives them perfect information about what you have at your disposal, but it is not cheating on the same level as edited/hacked Pokemon stats or moves.

It's not cheating on the same level as hacked Pokemon? Yeah, they hacked Pokemon to have perfect stats, they didn't make it so they'll know your every single move as you make it. Read the post again:

The "battle analyser" works much the same for battles as the "instacheck" program does for trades. A PC is set up as a wireless hotspot to intercept data from the Pokémon games, and upon the opponent clicking confirm on the battle screen, the program shows the opponent's entire party and movesets and displays what moves the opponent chooses during the battle.

If you think hacking perfect stats destroys the spirit of battling more than a person knowing exactly what move you've made, then something's really wrong here. Unless you wait out the clock and choose your move the second the timer runs out, they're going to know what you chose and then counter it perfectly. Spending 100+ hours breeding isn't reflective of one's skills in battle, but knowing your opponent's every move destroys the point of battling.

This basically destroys the beauty of Rotation battles.

I really don't understand why Game Freak had structured online in such a way that they send all the information to the opposing DS at once, even if they haven't made an move yet and you have.

Hacking pokemon may not destroy the battles, but everything else in the game. The rarity of pokemon, the joy of collecting them, completing the pokedex.
For Battlers this Battle Analyser programm is what hacked pokemon are for collectors and people who play pokemon the way the developers intended.
Everyone who uses the programm is a maximilion pegasus in pokemon.

 

[BigBadBatter]

I have n problem with legal hackmons, as they still keep a level playing field. All they are is a time saver, and I have no issue with that (god, even I use them for comp). But this? As Saro said, you may as well have a flipping Millenium Eye!

 

[Faye Scarlet]

Anyone remember Mario Kart DS and its snaking controversy? In my experience, it started out with finding only an occasional player here and there seeming to inexplicably end up with a 5+ second lead by the finish line, but three months later, it seemed like half of the players I got connected with were always Yoshi/Dry Bones snaking the Egg-1/Dry Bomber.

Learning to use a cheap technique in-game is rather different from a complicated (by the looks and sound of it) computer program.

 

[Stratelier]

Learning to use a cheap technique in-game is rather different from a complicated (by the looks and sound of it) computer program.

True, but the other point is that it's something that you started to see more often over time in your random Wi-Fi matchups. There's nothing unfair about snaking races -- provided all players know how (I was actually decent at it myself after learning what it was). But matching them up versus someone who doesn't is not good for anyone; the snake is shooting fish in a barrel and the others have no hope of winning.

 

[Faye Scarlet]

True, but the other point is that it's something that you started to see more often over time in your random Wi-Fi matchups. There's nothing unfair about snaking races -- provided all players know how (I was actually decent at it myself after learning what it was). But matching them up versus someone who doesn't is not good for anyone; the snake is shooting fish in a barrel and the others have no hope of winning.

But you're saying you think the Battle Analyser will become as widespread as snaking in MKDS, when there is a big difference between the two. It took me a couple of tries to find it via Google, and I have no idea how to use the thing. I do admit that it wouldn't take long to play around and figure it out, though. But as far as I can see from reading other forums that have discussed the Battle Analyser, very few people have this program, much less know how to use it.

There is also a person known as Kazo working on (or has already made) a counter to the Battle Analyser (mentioned/seen at NeoGAF and gbatemp). And with Rating Battles temporarily disabled, it seems that Nintendo and GAME FREAK are hopefully working on a patch for this. People shouldn't freak out and declare online battles over so soon with those glimmers of hope on the horizon. It's silly to think this program would go unnoticed by Nintendo and GAME FREAK.

I must say, though, in a weird way I admire the person who made the program. It's a shame he used his intelligence and skills to make a mind-reading program rather than something more useful. I'm all for hacking, but pulling a Pegasus is a bit much, even for me.

 

[Stratelier]

But you're saying you think the Battle Analyser will become as widespread as snaking in MKDS...

I don't know about that. How often did people encounter hacked Pokemon in G4 or G5 battles?

 

[SupersonicScolipede]

I just wish people would focus more on winning with strategy and training (the original intention of the series), not with whatever dumb hacking agent comes up each Gen. Hack alone all you want, but when it comes to wi-fi battles, it's only respectful that you give your opponent a fair chance.

 

[Muur]

So it simply means they can sneak a peek at the cards in your hand.... sure it's an unsettling development as it gives them perfect information about what you have at your disposal, but it is not cheating on the same level as edited/hacked Pokemon stats or moves.

It's not cheating on the same level as hacked Pokemon? Yeah, they hacked Pokemon to have perfect stats, they didn't make it so they'll know your every single move as you make it. Read the post again:

The "battle analyser" works much the same for battles as the "instacheck" program does for trades. A PC is set up as a wireless hotspot to intercept data from the Pokémon games, and upon the opponent clicking confirm on the battle screen, the program shows the opponent's entire party and movesets and displays what moves the opponent chooses during the battle.

If you think hacking perfect stats destroys the spirit of battling more than a person knowing exactly what move you've made, then something's really wrong here. Unless you wait out the clock and choose your move the second the timer runs out, they're going to know what you chose and then counter it perfectly. Spending 100+ hours breeding isn't reflective of one's skills in battle, but knowing your opponent's every move destroys the point of battling.

This basically destroys the beauty of Rotation battles.

I really don't understand why Game Freak had structured online in such a way that they send all the information to the opposing DS at once, even if they haven't made an move yet and you have.

When it's put like this it's a lot worse than I thought it was.

 

[bluestarfish]

Well apparently the patch nintendo released last night fixed this issue, rated battles are back online and apparently instacheck (and by extension the battle analyser) no longer works. You cannot use any of the online features of the game until you get this update in particular.