Breeding + Move Deleter = WTF

[Pie]

H'okay. So.

It started with a discussion about breeding Yanma that know Thief. In it, there was a bit of a brain fart moment where we were trying to remember if TM moves could be passed on.

I checked a Meowth I had bred from my FR and LG Persians, and was like, "Yeah, it works, my baby Meowth knows Cut."

I stopped and thought about it...

I had deleted Cut on the father Persian to transfer him to DP. I checked again to make sure - he had forgotten it.

Well, this was something to experiment with! So, no saving, I decided to check it out with the Pokémon I was about to breed, Yanma.

The father Yanma first had Foresight, Quick Attack, Double Team and SonicBoom. Remember the moves and what replaces what and what gets deleted, it becomes important.

I taught the father Yanma Thief over the move Foresight. Then, I brought him to the Move Deleter, and had him forget Thief. I decided to go a step further and make him forget Double Team as well.

My hypothesis was that if I bred a child Yanma from this and the mother Yanma (moveset Foresight, Quick Attack, Double Team and SonicBoom), it would know Thief, Quick Attack, Double Team and SonicBoom.

Well, some hot Yanma on Yanma action and a lot of 'cycling later, and the daughter Yanma hatched.

Her moveset was Tackle, Foresight, Quick Attack and SonicBoom.

...

Uh... someone... someone wanna tell me what just happened...?

 

[Zhen Lin]

It seems impossible. When a move is deleted the field in the data structure is set to zero, so no trace of the previous move remains.

 

[Pie]

It seems impossible. When a move is deleted the field in the data structure is set to zero, so no trace of the previous move remains.

Tell that to my Meowth. I didn't reteach her father Cut, and I didn't teach her Cut.

Something is going on here and I want to know what.

 

[llxwarbirdxll]

Maybe Yanma are supposed to learn Tackle when they're born and it learned that instead of Thief.

 

[The Pig King]

Maybe it only works that way with HM moves.

 

[RudolphMilotic]

The father Yanma first had Foresight, Quick Attack, Double Team and SonicBoom. Remember the moves and what replaces what and what gets deleted, it becomes important.

I taught the father Yanma Thief over the move Foresight. Then, I brought him to the Move Deleter, and had him forget Thief. I decided to go a step further and make him forget Double Team as well.

My hypothesis was that if I bred a child Yanma from this and the mother Yanma (moveset Foresight, Quick Attack, Double Team and SonicBoom), it would know Thief, Quick Attack, Double Team and SonicBoom.

Well, some hot Yanma on Yanma action and a lot of 'cycling later, and the daughter Yanma hatched.

Her moveset was Tackle, Foresight, Quick Attack and SonicBoom.

Moves of the father Yanma after you went to the Move Deleter:
-Quick Attack
-Sonic Boom

The father Yanma can't inherit Thief because this move is no longer in his data.

Moves of the mother Yanma:
-Foresight
-Quick Attack
-Double Team
-Sonic Boom

Moves that Yanma knows when it hatches at level 1 (Diamond/Pearl):
-Tackle
-Foresight

The child can have neither Thief (seeing that the father doesn't know it) nor Double Team (because only the father can passing down TM's) when you hatch it; on the other hand, both the father and the mother know Quick Attack and Sonic Boom so these moves can be inherited. As a result, the only possible moveset for a Baby Yanma with these parents is Tacke, Foresight, Quick Attack and Sonicboom.

I'm more concerned about your Meowth that knows Cut; maybe in Diamond/Pearl, HM's can be passed down by the father or the mother (being that the EV-reducing berries changed their behavior in the IV generation); I haven't tested it yet.

 

[Arseus Ex Machina]

This all sounds like a science experiment I read about: It involved breeding rats that had their tails chopped off. The offspring of said rats were born with tails despite that the parents had their tails cut off.

 

[Melkor]

I checked a Meowth I had bred from my FR and LG Persians, and was like, "Yeah, it works, my baby Meowth knows Cut."

I stopped and thought about it...

I had deleted Cut on the father Persian to transfer him to DP. I checked again to make sure - he had forgotten it.

"I'm more concerned about your Meowth that knows Cut; maybe in Diamond/Pearl, HM's can be passed down by the father or the mother (being that the EV-reducing berries changed their behavior in the IV generation); I haven't tested it yet."

If both Persian came from FRLG, both must have got their Cut deleted to be transferred to DP.

Pie, please check if the mother Persian got Cut relearned via DP HM.

If answer is no, next step could be getting a male Pkmn learn Dive on RS, delete it, transfer via Pal Park to DP, and breed it. It probably won't prove anything, but who knows.

 

[Pie]

I checked the mother Persian--I never retaught her Cut. I never reteach ANYBODY Cut. The movesets of the family are as follows:

Mother:
-Thief
-Bite
-Pay Day
-(Blank, formerly Cut)

Father:
-Pay Day
-Screech
-Bite
-(Blank, formerly Cut)

Child(Daughter):
-Scratch
-Cut
-Pay Day
-Bite

 

[Zhen Lin]

Hmm, is this feat repeatable?

 

[Argy]

This all sounds like a science experiment I read about: It involved breeding rats that had their tails chopped off. The offspring of said rats were born with tails despite that the parents had their tails cut off.

They should have had tails. Chopping off a tail doesn't alter the base genetic material.

 

[Arseus Ex Machina]

They should have had tails. Chopping off a tail doesn't alter the base genetic material.

That was the point of the experiment: To see if the offspring of rats that had their tails chopped off would still have tails.

 

[Luna Tiger]

Hmm, is this feat repeatable?

If Persian knew more compatible HMs, it could be tested more simply. Another test requires four persian (two males, two females) and..say, two pidgey (male and female).

Teach two persian Cut again. Take the other two and teach them Flash; now that Flash is just a normal TM in Sinnoh, it might still make for interesting results. Then teach the two pidgey Fly.

Use the moves at least once (optional, I suppose), then delete them, trade to DP, and breed, with all the necessary precaution of breeding you want.

That was the point of the experiment: To see if the offspring of rats that had their tails chopped off would still have tails.

That's hardly an experiment. That's common sense. If the rats were bred to HAVE no tails, that's a different story. But chopping off their tails doesn't effect their DNA that makes them have tails in the first place.

 

[Misty]

The Yanma is correct. There's something odd about the Meowth - are you absolutely sure Persian did not have Cut when it was actually making the egg?

 

[paperfairy]

Bizzare. That's all that can be said.

 

[RudolphMilotic]

If both Persian came from FRLG, both must have got their Cut deleted to be transferred to DP.

I forgot to read carefully that part. Sorry.

This is the first time I hear of a post about weird stuff in the breeding mechanics: a Pokémon hatched from an egg with a move (a HM in this case) passed down from nowhere/nobody?

 

[Dr. Peppa]

This may sound like a total stupid thing to ask but... how do you delete hm's in D/P?

 

[paperfairy]

Move Deleter is in Canalave City.

 

[Pie]

The Yanma is correct. There's something odd about the Meowth - are you absolutely sure Persian did not have Cut when it was actually making the egg?

I could not be more sure.

 

[paperfairy]

Perhaps a bank somewhere on the Pokémon itself keeps track of its learned moves? Then it would somehow flag that the Pokémon learned Cut at one point... reguardless to if its still there or not; both parents had the flag, so the baby got the move.