Preview BW 108: Isshu League Conclusion! Lucario VS Pikachu!!

[John Understands]

WARNING: LONG ARGUMENT AHEAD.

Spoiler

All we know is that Cameron was surprised it was a 6 on 6 battle - considering every round shown has changed the amount of Pokemon that each battle uses it's hardly the worst thing in the world that someone might get it wrong. We don't know how many Pokemon he actually has on hand - he probably does have a full 6 - but if he can beat Ash with 5 it doesn't matter.

Ash isn't being humiliated - the battle so far is even, by virtue of stupid battle choices on both sides - Cameron would be even further ahead in battle if he didn't make the bad choices that he has.

I'm going to jump in this argument and tell about game bullshit.

For example, say there were two trainers in a battle.

Let's call one trainer "Ash" and the other trainer "Cameron".

Let's say Ash has almost all of his Pokémon at Lv60, and Cameron's at Lv65. So far, what's left is Lucario VS Pikachu. Because of how high-powered Lucario is, Cameron, because of how easily the moron beat Ash's Pokémon, technically, he would win.

This is better than Ash winning, but of course this means Ash not fighting Virgil, but face it. It's not because the writers hate Ash or something - it's true-blue game logic.

Oh Please , like writer ever care about game logic !

I know that, but I was just saying if something like that happened in the games, it's the way it worked.

They didn't prepare Ash for the League, They didn't develop his character & Pokemon , They doesn't let him win any major Tournament and now they decide end the League where Ash lose to a idiot with 5 pokemon !

As I said before, the less you have, the stronger you are. Sure, this doesn't work for Ash, but it worked for me in Platinum, and it worked for Kotetsu.

They not only made that Trainer idiotic, They let him beat Ash with Just 5 Pokemon rather then 6 !
They couldn't let Ash to lose to him in a proper 6 on 6 Battle !

At least it's BETTER than Ash losing to two legendary Pokémon.

Its like Showing me a Goat and telling me Its a Cow !

No, it's different. As I said before, if the writers truly hated Ash, he would've died after Pikachu shocked him in the first episode.

Losing to a idiot with 5 pokemon is humiliating !

Yes, it is. But, not as humiliating as losing to 5 out of 6 of Trip's Pokémon.

y the way ,
Ash team is just as developed as Kotetsu .
However you Ash-hater

I don't hate Ash. Sure, he's a moron, but still.

doesn't notice that because-
- Ash caught more Pokemon then Kotetsu .
-Ash wasn't lucky enough to catch a fully evolved pseudo Legendary Pokemon like Iris and writer wasn't kind enough to let one of his Unova Starter to be fully evolved ! (Since they wanted Ash to have 3 rival with different fully evolved Stater Pokemon in the League )

In Johto, none of his starters - except Bayleef - were evolved.

But They decided to make 5 on 6 Battle !
Its obvious Writer wanted Ash to be humiliated since they hate him !

As I said BEFORE, If the writers hated Ash as much as the writers of Spongebob hate Squidward, then Ash would have died by Episode 1.

As for Game logic ,
You do know Trip has a Coneckdurr while Paul has Electrivire and Magmortor !
But They shouldn't have those Pokemon since those Pokemon need trade to evolve.

I meant for the levels. Not for trading.

Furthermore , Pikachu should be in level 90 now !

Justified to fuck since AG.

So how did it lose to a Rookie's Snivy & Servine 2 time in row and had to use every power in his bone to defect it in 3rd time.

Zekrom sucked out the power of Pikachu's electriciy for a while. Simple. It resetted Pikachu back to Lv5. Like it did in AG and DP.

What happen to your Game logic When Ash is involved ?

IT WAS ONLY FOR THE LEVEL COMPARASION, NOT FOR ANYTHING ELSE.

Oh , I remember !
Your Guys habit is to poke only Ash's butt .
Its not like you guys would care !

Listen, I DON'T HATE ASH. I said what I said because the logic works.

How do you even compare A trainer with Legendary Pokemon & Mewtwo with Kotetsu !
Kotetsu just a idiot with a pseudo Legendary Pokemon ! Nothing else .

Psuedo-Legendaries are considered powerful in the anime. Sure Ash defeated Hydregion, and Iris defeated Garchomp, but still.

There is no humiliation in losing to a E4 , Champion , and A trainer with Legendary Pokemon !
However Kotetsu happen to be a whole different thing .

Uh-huh, but Cameron has...Lucario, Samurott, Hydregion, and two other Pokémon.

All three are considered powerful, so it's kinda similar.

By the way , If Ash beaten Trip on a 5 vs 6 battle then you guys would call it unfair !
However , Thing become fair When Ash is one suffering that !

Uh... that was because we didn't even see Trip's sixth Pokémon. This with Cameron is a whole different story.

Ash getting KO by a Mewtwo Wouldn't be as humiliating as Ash losing to Kotetsu on a 6 vs 5 battle .
And thats truth no matter how many time you defy common sense to prove your ridiculous Point !

...I won't even answer here.

And Now ,
You guys telling me that Ash isn't humiliated and writer doesn't hate Ash !

No, if the writers hated Ash, he would have died in Mewtwo Strikes Back, or in the first episode.

The only reason they haven't murder Ash to keep their job .
But They ever get the chance then they will murder Ash for sure !
If they hear that they can kill Ash and get to keep their job then it will be the happiest day of their life .[/QUOTE]
...
That's like saying the writers of Spongebob will be overjoyed when they hear they can write in Squidward's death.
The writers do this for one thing: MONEY. Not to be sadists and see Ash suffer as much as he can, MONEY.

Losing to A trainer with 5 Pokemon is humiliating !

Doing a solo run on the E4 and beating them is more humiliating.

[/QUOTE]
Who's doing a solo run on the E4 ????
Last time I checked , Ash or any other non E4 and non champion couldn't beat any Pokemon of a E4. [/QUOTE]
Uh, people who play BW2.

And I was proving my point. How would someone feel when their entire team was curbstomped by a Torterra.

Its will be always be humiliating no matter how many time you guy try to act about it !
If Writer wanted Ash to lose to Kotetsu then they could made it a 6 on 6 Battle .

What WOULD fill in Cameron's sixth slot? Another Samurott? The writer's imagination was low.

There over 400 Pokemon in the world and writer need high power imagination just to fill Kotetsu 6th slot.
Plus , If Their imagination that low then how does they got their job.[/QUOTE]
Filler is all I need to say. And, yes, there's 649 Pokémon, but all of them were shown - so what could fill in the sixth slot? A FEAR Rattata?

Off-course , I guess I was right about all the writer getting their job by ''Family Connection'' rather then any talent or qualification .

If you get rid of the babies (Snivy , Oshawott and Scraggy) Then Ash team was just as strong as Kotetsu's !

Pikachu, Boldore, Snivy, Pignite, Leavanny, Unfeazant.
No, it isn't.

It is however they can't do a thing if writer doesn't let them too !

Removing the baby Pokémon, Ash's team would be stronger. But not like Kotetsu's.

If Writer wanted to end the league so fast then they could just skipped those worthless filler !
But They didn't !

There was only one worthless filler in the league - that Axew episode.

Ohhh , I guess the Tag -Battle episode , The nursery Episode , The Cross-dressing episode and all those other filler before the league has disappeared into the thin air.[/QUOTE]
They served no purpose, yes, but the Axew filler still felt as useless as it should. Sure, the other fillers could have been wasted, but sill.

Plus , What the point of putting a Axew filler right middle of the league if they wanted to end it quickly .
If you don't have any logic that stop shouting nonsense with me!!!

I have logic. Very good logic. But, not all I said could be true.

this was hard to quote

 

[garrison-san]

Everybody, please calm down right now. This level of aggression is definitely not appropriate, and may result in mod action.

 

[Sweet Veil]

So its all Ash's fault that writer focus too much on Iris and Cilan while ignoring his development !!!

Satoshi doesn't get any character development these days, he hasn't since like AG. Battle wise he gets development often. This is not "the Ash show" the fact people get so hot and bothered when Dento and especially Iris gets screen time is unnerving and shows some would rather them be cheerleaders rather than characters in their own right. I love Satoshi, but he's not interesting enough to carry a whole show on his own.

We should just hung Ash instate of the writer !
A trainer who bring 5 pokemon in 6 on 6 doesn't deserve to win no matter how many powerfull Pokemon he gets .

The writers make Satoshi's team as strong as they want. Like I said before if Kotetsu has an evolved Dragon, he's clearly a strong trainer or at least skilled.

We never saw Kotetsu or any other trainer to ever train except Ash & Stephan .

Kotetsu doesn't need training on-screen, we know he trained because it was mentioned he trains off-screen. For the record we don't see Satoshi training on screen a lot either, it's mostly at the beginning of episodes or at the end, not throughout the whole episode. We see short scenes of Iris and Satoshi training in episodes regularly and get mentions of them often, that's all we NEED to see. Like I said before, as the viewer we can easily surmise he's doing it off-screen. We didn't get any scenes of Bel or Shooti training off-screen did we? Bel supposedly trained before her journey and evolved her Pokabu into a Chaobu and it single-handily earned her two badges, I admit that did seem a bit sketchy with how she's been portrayed. But you can't claim that Satoshi is the only one on this show training.

Ash is one who didn't got what he deserve !!! He deserved more development and more attention but writer waste everything on some worthless filler and Iris & Cilan's glorification!!!

This is not "The Ash Show" Iris and Dento deserve episodes too -.-

Ash is much better trainer then Kotetsu but Kotetsu get have a better team without training and get to beat Ash without a 6th Pokemon .
Then what was wrong with Ash in Kento !

Who says Kotetsu doesn't train? His Riolu, Daikenki, Nattorei, and Sanzandora all seem damn-well trained. The first knocked out Bel's Emboar, her strongest. The Dragon has been portrayed along with many other Dragons as being naturally strong. Daikenki and Nattorei earned him the Wave Badge, Kotetsu used Daikenki against Shizui as a strategy. You can't claim Kotetsu doesn't train just because you don't see it.

You guys kept saying Ash doesn't evolve Pokemon or train them but how can he do it if Writer doesn't let him too ???
Answer that first before saying anything else !

1.Satoshi does train, we don't get 40 episodes of it being demonstrated like in Shinou and people were so use to that writing style that they got a huge brain fart when it wasn't episodes upon episodes of Satoshi and his companions training together. Look at AG, he doesn't train heavily on screen there either.
2.Mijumaru, Zuruggu, and Tsutarja aren't evolved because they're marketable.
3.Did you miss Waruvial, Hahakomori, Gamagaru, Kenhallow, and Chaobu all being evolved Pokemon. Hahakomori has better battles and I think a better win-record than Tsutarja has too. Waruvial beat Iris' Kairyu. Chaobu has been portrayed as a powerhouse since he evolved. Satoshi has evolved Pokemon, I just think your character bias is keeping you from seeing that and I don't mean that in a rude way. :/

 

[Hurricane Kishore]

So its all Ash's fault that writer focus too much on Iris and Cilan while ignoring his development !!!

Satoshi doesn't get any character development these days, he hasn't since like AG. Battle wise he gets development often. This is not "the Ash show" the fact people get so hot and bothered when Dento and especially Iris gets screen time is unnerving and shows some would rather them be cheerleaders rather than characters in their own right. I love Satoshi, but he's not interesting enough to carry a whole show on his own.

We should just hung Ash instate of the writer !
A trainer who bring 5 pokemon in 6 on 6 doesn't deserve to win no matter how many powerfull Pokemon he gets .

The writers make Satoshi's team as strong as they want. Like I said before if Kotetsu has an evolved Dragon, he's clearly a strong trainer or at least skilled.

We never saw Kotetsu or any other trainer to ever train except Ash & Stephan .

Kotetsu doesn't need training on-screen, we know he trained because it was mentioned he trains off-screen. For the record we don't see Satoshi training on screen a lot either, it's mostly at the beginning of episodes or at the end, not throughout the whole episode. We see short scenes of Iris and Satoshi training in episodes regularly and get mentions of them often, that's all we NEED to see. Like I said before, as the viewer we can easily surmise he's doing it off-screen. We didn't get any scenes of Bel or Shooti training off-screen did we? Bel supposedly trained before her journey and evolved her Pokabu into a Chaobu and it single-handily earned her two badges, I admit that did seem a bit sketchy with how she's been portrayed. But you can't claim that Satoshi is the only one on this show training.

Ash is one who didn't got what he deserve !!! He deserved more development and more attention but writer waste everything on some worthless filler and Iris & Cilan's glorification!!!

This is not "The Ash Show" Iris and Dento deserve episodes too -.-

You guys kept saying Ash doesn't evolve Pokemon or train them but how can he do it if Writer doesn't let him too ???
Answer that first before saying anything else !

1.Satoshi does train, we don't get 40 episodes of it being demonstrated like in Shinou and people were so use to that writing style that they got a huge brain fart when it wasn't episodes upon episodes of Satoshi and his companions training together. Look at AG, he doesn't train heavily on screen there either.
2.Mijumaru, Zuruggu, and Tsutarja aren't evolved because they're marketable.
3.Did you miss Waruvial, Hahakomori, Gamagaru, Kenhallow, and Chaobu all being evolved Pokemon. Hahakomori has better battles and I think a better win-record than Tsutarja has too. Waruvial beat Iris' Kairyu. Chaobu has been portrayed as a powerhouse since he evolved. Satoshi has evolved Pokemon, I just think your character bias is keeping you from seeing that and I don't mean that in a rude way. :/

Ash is much better trainer then Kotetsu but Kotetsu get have a better team without training and get to beat Ash without a 6th Pokemon .
Then what was wrong with Ash in Kento !

Who says Kotetsu doesn't train? His Riolu, Daikenki, Nattorei, and Sanzandora all seem damn-well trained. The first knocked out Bel's Emboar, her strongest. The Dragon has been portrayed along with many other Dragons as being naturally strong. Daikenki and Nattorei earned him the Wave Badge, Kotetsu used Daikenki against Shizui as a strategy. You can't claim Kotetsu doesn't train just because you don't see it.

Oh really ,
I heard yesterday @Moe shouting about Ash never training and got what he deserve!
Only because He didn't saw Ash training as much as he want in On-screen .
So tell me , Why do you expect me to believe Kotetsu train more then Ash when I never seen him to train !
As far as his Pokemon go , Ash also got develop pokemon as well.
He wasn't as lucky as Kotetsu & Iris to get a fully evolve Dragon Pokemon .
And He will never get a fully evolved Dragon Pokemon because writer believe it would make Ash look too overpowered.
They even took away Ash's Charizard and now Ash only can ''Borrow'' him for Special battle and then he has to send it away.
Not everybody is lucky enough to catch one Pseudo Legendary Pokemon.
Specially When its Ash who has a lot of ''Restriction'' !!!
But just because Ash isn't allow to have his own fully Pseudo Legendary and he wasn't allow to fully evolve any of his Unova Stater , Doesn't mean its okay for Kotetsu to whip him out with 5 Pokemon.
If Writer really want Kotetsu to win then they could make it 6 vs 6 !
Why did they had to go 5 vs 6 ???
Why ? Did they want all Ash fan to feel even worst .

By the way , You haven't notice
3 Pokemon Kotetsu's Pokemon evolve only once while 2 of his Pokemon evolve twice .
And Chance's are that Kotetsu befriended that Hydregion in order to catch it .
If we count the number then Ash had way more evolution then Kotetsu.

 

[Moe]

Oh really ,
I heard yesterday @Moe shouting about Ash never training and got what he deserve!
Only because He didn't saw Ash training as much as he want in On-screen .

You are making a false and impossible disconnect between Ash and 'the writers'. Ash is a character written for a TV series, all of his actions are written - all of his 'off-screen' actions should be hinted at for narrative continuity.

When I say 'Ash didn't train', I'm saying that as his character was written during this season in a way that didn't suggest he was developing his Pokemon team as much as both he has done so in past series and to enough of a degree to make writing a winning result a believable story.

I am saying that based on what has been written so far does not represent a context that should result in a league win - in comparison with all the past writing in the series showing how much training that Ash went through to reach his previous highs - which as I've said needs to occur with all of his new Pokemon each region, they don't just suddenly get strong because Ash catches them.

It would be extremely convoluted to try and make that distinction with each post, and most certainly don't need to have that logical step explained to them. Replace 'Ash' in my posts with 'Ash as he has been written by the writers to this point' if you don't get it.

I have complaints about Cameron, to summarise quickly - I think his having a Hydreigon hurts Iris' storyline by making her Dragon mastery goal seem far easier than it should be and I think he needed to be introduced earlier to make his win seem less forced - but I certainly don't have an issue with a character having a clear win, or the personality he has been given. The sense I get from Cameron as a character so far is that he has a good nature with Pokemon - even if he is clumsy.

 

[Silktree]

I have complaints about Cameron, to summarise quickly - I think his having a Hydreigon hurts Iris' storyline by making her Dragon mastery goal seem far easier than it should be and I think he needed to be introduced earlier to make his win seem less forced - but I certainly don't have an issue with a character having a clear win, or the personality he has been given. The sense I get from Cameron as a character so far is that he has a good nature with Pokemon - even if he is clumsy.

You don't have a problem with the way he sent his Ferrothorn and Swanna to be purged due to obvious disadvantages?

 

[Moe]

You don't have a problem with the way he sent his Ferrothorn and Swanna to be purged due to obvious disadvantages?

I do.

 

[Sweet Veil]

Oh really ,
I heard yesterday @Moe shouting about Ash never training and got what he deserve!

You need to quit believing shit everyone throws at you. Opinions are subjective, but it's a pure fact that Satoshi was training his Pokemon. For example Zuruggu wouldn't have mastered Focus Blast if Satoshi wasn't doing shit. I repeat, just because we aren't getting it on-screen in full 22 episodes centering solely around it like the Ice Chandelier episode in DP, doesn't mean he isn't training. It's perfectly fine that you think that he doesn't deserve it because it's not the DP formula style of writing and thus you find it unbelievable to believe he's been training, but these are the facts. It's the writing style of Best Wishes and DP is the only series that had episodes upon episodes focused on training, most likely because it was long as hell and we had quite a few gaps between episodes and Contests in an attempt to make the badge quest stretch out four years.

Only because He didn't saw Ash training as much as he want in On-screen .
So tell me , Why do you expect me to believe Kotetsu train more then Ash when I never seen him to train !

I never claimed Kotetsu trainined more than Satoshi, however you can't make blanket statements like "Ash & Stephan are the only ones that train their Pokemon!" Only a fool deals in on absolutes.

As far as his Pokemon go , Ash also got develop pokemon as well.

Character-wise, yeah Chaobu & Mijumaru are the only ones that have gotten development. I thought Waruvial would have, but the "Getting timid without his glasses" thing seems like just a gag, plus it hasn't appeared since about 30 or so episodes ago. If you mean strength development, every Pokemon on this show gets that. Every Pokemon on his team has gotten stronger, some are just done better than others.

He wasn't as lucky as Kotetsu & Iris to get a fully evolve Dragon Pokemon .

Kairyu, the most marketable non-legendary Dragon and extremely popular(You would think its pre-evolved forms would be more popular ._.) = BW2 Advertisement

Funfact, Sanzandora is the fifth most popular Gen V Pokemon. Not to mention it really shows off how strong a trainer Kotetsu is to have caught and tamed a Dragon-type and trained one, which have been hailed as extremely powerful and hard to train and some rage. The writers most certainly are not handing him a fully evolved Pokemon that's powerful like those on the spot. Satoshi is the main character, a badge-collecting main character and that's just that. His mission in life is to train his Pokemon often plus he gets the most screen time and battles, I think, out of the BW trio. He has no need for a Sanzandora or Kairyu. Did you forget how quickly his Pokemon like Mamepato and Kurumiru evolved? How strong Chaobu was after evolution? The fact he caught Waruvile and Gamagaru as second-stagers, both with good movesets. The fact Tsutarja had a powerful moveset right off the bat and a previous trainer? Or are you ignoring the fact Mijumaru was quite a potential-filled Pokemon from the start as well as how Zuruggu dominated a Vulgina(1Hit-KO) then beat two fully-evolved monkeys in the Donamite?

And He will never get a fully evolved Dragon Pokemon because writer believe it would make Ash look too overpowered.

Why the hell does he need a Dragon so bad? They're strong Pokemon but you're ignoring Waruvial. IMO, he's probably the best member of his team.

They even took away Ash's Charizard and now Ash only can ''Borrow'' him for Special battle and then he has to send it away.
Not everybody is lucky enough to catch one Pseudo Legendary Pokemon.

The writers "took away" Lizardon because they were marketing Jouto, not Kanto. Anyone that believes that the writers do this because they actually actually want him to start fresh is mistaken. They'll stop doing that when Nintendo stops loving money.

Specially When its Ash who has a lot of ''Restriction'' !!!
But just because Ash isn't allow to have his own fully Pseudo Legendary and he wasn't allow to fully evolve any of his Unova Stater , Doesn't mean its okay for Kotetsu to whip him out with 5 Pokemon.

Who told you he isn't "allowed" to evolve his Isshu starters? Chaobu nullifies this false fan statement. Fans need to quit thinking this way, it's fucking crazy. Mijumaru, Tsutarja, and Pokabu staying that way for a long time is for the sake of marketing.

If Writer really want Kotetsu to win then they could make it 6 vs 6 !
Why did they had to go 5 vs 6 ???

Because entertainment, fun for young children.

Why ? Did they want all Ash fan to feel even worst .

The true fans are impulsive 4-11 year-old children who buy merchandise. The writers don't care about anime nerds, in fact they most likely don't even know you exist, but even then they wouldn't give a damn especially for people on the other side of the world in an English-speaking country. They're just doing their job, Pokemon did its job. It made you buy toys and video games.

By the way , You haven't notice
3 Pokemon Kotetsu's Pokemon evolve only once while 2 of his Pokemon evolve twice .
And Chance's are that Kotetsu befriended that Hydregion in order to catch it .
If we count the number then Ash had way more evolution then Kotetsu.

Says who, your headcanon?

 

[BlackKing]

Hey, heads up. A rage storm is about to be unleashed.

 

[Dogasu]

I'm closing this thread right now because the "discussions" here are getting out of hand. It'll be reopened if/when we get more previews for the episode.

We mods will also consider what disciplinary actions, if any, we're going to want to take.

 

[Master Cyrus]

決着イッシュリーグ!ピカチュウ対ルカリオ!! - YouTube

Here's the smash preview for this ep.

 

[Paulisthebest]

決着イッシュリーグ!ピカチュウ対ルカリオ!! - YouTube

Here's the smash preview for this ep.

Nice touch showing Cameron, Ash and Virgil in a battle cry so who's to tell what will happen now????

 

[ArginX]

ピカチュウVSルカリオ&サトシとNの別れ。 - YouTube I wonder, is the song playing in the background going to be the theme song for Episode N? They used Be An Arrow! in the previews for Season 2, so it would make sense. If so, I rather like the song seeing as though it sounds like Saikou Everyday!, and therefore brings me back to a sort of early 2010-ish era, with the feeling of a new coming generation--and curiosity as to what it will contain--in the air.

 

[Chiplet]

ピカチュウVSルカリオ&サトシとNの別れ。 - YouTube I wonder, is the song playing in the background going to be the theme song for Episode N? They used Be An Arrow! in the previews for Season 2, so it would make sense. If so, I rather like the song seeing as though it sounds like Saikou Everyday!, and therefore brings me back to a sort of early 2010-ish era, with the feeling of a new coming generation--and curiosity as to what it will contain--in the air.

Isn't it ''Walking on Sunshine'' that they're playing? If so, then it definitely won't be the theme song for Episode N.


I honestly really don't care much for the Lucario Vs. Pikachu battle any longer. I was excited when it was Riolu who was doing the battling since Riolu is my favorite Pokémon, and even though Lucario is one of my favorites too I'd prefer to see Riolu battle instead. All I want to see is Snivy battling it out against Lucario, but I've got a feeling that their battle will be rather short to make place for the next one, the main one.

I'm kinda excited for Virgil's battle too. I know it'll be short, but I still am looking forward to it. I'm one of those people who actually really like Virgil and his team of Eeveelutions, and I still think it's a shame that we won't get to see he and Ash battle it out in a full battle. I just wish that they would've dedicated two more episodes to league for a full battle against Virgil too.