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BW vs. B2W2

Which pair of Generation V games do you prefer?

  • Black and White

    Votes: 6 23.1%
  • Black 2 and White 2

    Votes: 15 57.7%
  • I like both equally

    Votes: 5 19.2%
  • I'm not sure

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    26

FinnishPokéFan92

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While BW has an awesome story, I personally prefer the sequels for many reasons. Not only do they keep the old areas which you can still explore, but they also add new ones to discover for the first time. Lots of side activities are also added, like Pokéstar Studios and, of course, the PWT. Many old characters return, and many new ones appear as well. Team Plasma feels very threatening, and their shift into openly villainous activities seems natural after how BW's story ended. The emphasis on story is retained with great results, now also making Unova less linear than it was before. One of the most important additions, though, was the addition of a bunch of new Pokémon into the regional Pokédex, allowing far more options for team building.
 

Esserise

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Probably B2W2. There's a lot I admire about BW and what they did in terms of trying a new approach in the story and in the gameplay, but just objectively speaking, B2W2 retain a lot of that stuff and add tons of other new things on top of it, and it all makes for an extremely robust experience.
 

Torchic W. Pip

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I haven't played B2W2, but that game has movies and the World Tournament, so yeah, that makes it my favorite of the two.

I'm not going to vote, though. I don't want to mess up the data.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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I haven't played B2W2, but that game has movies and the World Tournament, so yeah, that makes it my favorite of the two.

I'm not going to vote, though. I don't want to mess up the data.
You really should play them someday. I'm sure you'd love them.
 

CynthiaLover

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BW by a mile. While I liked B2W2, I prefer BW. BW had the better story, better character development, more enjoyable characters, and the fact that it forced you to start with a blank slate when it came to the Mon distribution. Team Plasma was at their most threatening in BW, N was at his best, the main villain was one you'd loved to hate, you had an entire half a region for a post-game, and it started the reusable TM thing that would carry over into other games. While I won't deny that B2W2 had more content, the fact of the matter is a sizable amount of that content was too heavily dependent on the now-defuncted Dream World, while BW didn't have that restriction (or at least not as much). I also preferred BW's Gym Leaders and their teams, since they weren't as easy to counter compared to B2W2 (for example, in B2W2 you could simply catch a Magnemite to stonewall Roxie, and Burgh's team was even weaker thanks to the removal of Dwebble for a Swadloon). I also liked the fact that in BW you could only use the new Mons and not rely on old standby ones, thus meaning you had to experiment through trial-and-error. Plus some of the added Mons in B2W2 felt like placeholders for better ones that would get added in XY. While B2W2 did offer closure for certain character arcs such as Bianca and Cheren, I preferred seeing them go through those character arcs instead of needing a timeskip. Plus I prefer Adler as a Champion over Iris. So, in short, I vastly prefer BW over B2W2 despite the fact that Gen 5 as a whole was great.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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Team Plasma was at their most threatening in BW, N was at his best, the main villain was one you'd loved to hate, you had an entire half a region for a post-game
Those things are IMO still true in B2W2 as well. Team Plasma literally freezes over an entire city with a Legendary Pokémon they've caught, N has realized the error of his ways and grown as a character while also not abandoning the core of his beliefs, Ghetsis is still as hateable as ever, and a big part of Unova is reserved for the post-game.
While I won't deny that B2W2 had more content, the fact of the matter is a sizable amount of that content was too heavily dependent on the now-defuncted Dream World, while BW didn't have that restriction (or at least not as much).
PWT, Memory Link, and Pokéstar Studios respectfully disagree. I've played through B2W2 many times, but never has my lack of access to the Dream World been detrimental to my enjoyment of the side content.
I also preferred BW's Gym Leaders and their teams, since they weren't as easy to counter compared to B2W2 (for example, in B2W2 you could simply catch a Magnemite to stonewall Roxie, and Burgh's team was even weaker thanks to the removal of Dwebble for a Swadloon).
Easy counters are available in both games: you can get an elemental monkey to counter the Striaton Gym, Pinwheel Forest has Fighting types to deal with Lenora, Elesa's Electric Gym is preceded by a route filled with Ground types, Skyla's Flying Gym is reached through a cave filled with Electric Pokémon, and Brycen's Ice Gym is preceded by a mountain full of Fighting and Rock Pokémon, to name some examples.
Plus I prefer Adler as a Champion over Iris.
That's obviously a matter of preference, so I won't debate it, but I personally prefer Iris, even if Alder was a great Champion too. May I ask why you prefer him?
 

Esserise

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PWT, Memory Link, and Pokéstar Studios respectfully disagree. I've played through B2W2 many times, but never has my lack of access to the Dream World been detrimental to my enjoyment of the side content.
Well, not quite with Memory Link. It’s great if you have two DS systems, but for anyone who doesn’t, it’s no longer accessible because Memory Linking with one console did rely on the Global Link website.

That being said, yeah, there’s so much in B2W2 that doesn’t need the Dream World or Global Link in order to be enjoyed at all. PWT, Black Tower/White Treehollow, Pokéstar Studios, Funfest Missions, Hidden Grottos, the Yancy/Curtis sidequest… and yet again, that’s on top of everything that was retained from BW like Musicals, the Battle Subway, the Abyssal Ruins, and the Royal Unova. And that’s not even mentioning the usual stuff like post-game battles and Legendary hunting and new areas to explore.

Join Avenue is admittedly hampered without Internet services, but even that you can still make work in single-player, albeit more slowly.

Plus there actually is a sort of quasi-replacement for the Dream World that’s only available for B2W2: the Dream Radar. It’s hardly the same experience, but it is a side-game that allows you to get Pokémon with Hidden Abilities.
 

CynthiaLover

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Those things are IMO still true in B2W2 as well. Team Plasma literally freezes over an entire city with a Legendary Pokémon they've caught, N has realized the error of his ways and grown as a character while also not abandoning the core of his beliefs, Ghetsis is still as hateable as ever, and a big part of Unova is reserved for the post-game.

PWT, Memory Link, and Pokéstar Studios respectfully disagree. I've played through B2W2 many times, but never has my lack of access to the Dream World been detrimental to my enjoyment of the side content.

Easy counters are available in both games: you can get an elemental monkey to counter the Striaton Gym, Pinwheel Forest has Fighting types to deal with Lenora, Elesa's Electric Gym is preceded by a route filled with Ground types, Skyla's Flying Gym is reached through a cave filled with Electric Pokémon, and Brycen's Ice Gym is preceded by a mountain full of Fighting and Rock Pokémon, to name some examples.

That's obviously a matter of preference, so I won't debate it, but I personally prefer Iris, even if Alder was a great Champion too. May I ask why you prefer him?

To answer in order (since I don't know how to multi-quote or whatever):

1) Not really. Team Plasma lost a lot of their bite in the timeskip. Now they were purely generic bad guys while in BW they were self-aware hypocritical animal wrongs group. Their ability to be more convincing to the public was stronger in BW, especially with the whole "hero" thing. As for N I preferred him when you actually saw his character in action. In B2W2 he shows up at the climax (which Ghetsis wanted, effectively walking right into a trap) and that's pretty much it. He really didn't add much in B2W2 as in BW where you saw his growth in action. Yeah, Ghetsis is still hateable but he was far more suave and smooth in his actions in BW. In B2W2 he became more generic, albeit it still retaining most of his smarts, until he became a braindead vegetable at the end. And yeah, a big part of Unova is reserved for post-game in B2W2 but some segments were lost in the transition, such as Cold Storage, Route 10, Challenger's Cave, and most of Relic Castle, to name a few. There are a few new areas but most of the old areas in the post-game have been lost, so that's actually not as much to explore as before.

2) I'm aware of those side-quests, which I admit are fun (although they can get repetitive after a bit). But things like Funfest Missions, a chunk of the Medals, the full potential of Join Avenue, the Nature Preserve's full potential, and others all of those relied too heavily on the DS Wi-Fi and Dream World, which means they went either became inaccessible or much harder to maximize once the DS servers went down. So, as a result, B2W2 lost a chunk of its special features due to the servers going down. Plus you could only do each of the Memory Link stuff once so that felt a bit wasted.

3) I know that but you can't stonewall/sweep them as easily compared to B2W2. Plus the Gym Leaders had smarter moves/AIs in BW. Try using a Ground type against Elisa? Aerial Ace and Flame Charge can tilt the scales (especially since most of the available Ground types were frail). Us a Fighting type against Lenora? Herdier's Intimidate weakens their Attack and Watchog can just put them to sleep with Hypnosis (which hits more often than it should, especially since Gen 5's sleep mechanics were nearly as deadly as Gen 1's) or steamroll them with a well-timed Retaliate. Use a Rock type against Brycen? Enter the Water move: Brine. In BW they still had their ways to work around type advantages, unlike some B2W2 Gym Leaders who pretty much floundered in the face of certain Mons.

4) I liked Adler's team, history, and personality better. He had more sagely advice that helped characters like Cheren gain substantial character growth. That same sagely nature carried over into B2W2 but it lost some of its impact since he wasn't as important then. While game Iris is lightyears better than anime Iris (don't even get me started on her), I found her team very lacking (and generic, as we've already had a Dragon-type Champion twice, both in the form of Lance in Kanto and Johto), her personality a bit too childish, and her design was too busy for my tastes.
 

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2) I'm aware of those side-quests, which I admit are fun (although they can get repetitive after a bit). But things like Funfest Missions, a chunk of the Medals, the full potential of Join Avenue, the Nature Preserve's full potential, and others all of those relied too heavily on the DS Wi-Fi and Dream World, which means they went either became inaccessible or much harder to maximize once the DS servers went down. So, as a result, B2W2 lost a chunk of its special features due to the servers going down. Plus you could only do each of the Memory Link stuff once so that felt a bit wasted.

All of those things are only partially affected, though.

- Funfest Missions can be done just fine solo (in fact I've only ever done them solo and I thought they were really fun). Besides that, Funfest Missions were always local wireless - they never used Wi-Fi services in the first place.

- Literally only 8 out of 255 medals are rendered inaccessible by the closure of Wi-Fi services; there are still more than plenty to collect. Granted, there are several Medals that are really only feasible to obtain if you have nearby friends who are also playing the game, but that's a different sort of hurdle.

- Join Avenue is a hassle now, yes, but it can work without Wi-Fi. Again, if you have nearby friends with their own copy of the game, that's another method by which you can receive more visitors.

- The Nature Preserve doesn't have anything to do with the Dream World or Wi-Fi...
 

CynthiaLover

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All of those things are only partially affected, though.

- Funfest Missions can be done just fine solo (in fact I've only ever done them solo and I thought they were really fun). Besides that, Funfest Missions were always local wireless - they never used Wi-Fi services in the first place.

- Literally only 8 out of 255 medals are rendered inaccessible by the closure of Wi-Fi services; there are still more than plenty to collect. Granted, there are several Medals that are really only feasible to obtain if you have nearby friends who are also playing the game, but that's a different sort of hurdle.

- Join Avenue is a hassle now, yes, but it can work without Wi-Fi. Again, if you have nearby friends with their own copy of the game, that's another method by which you can receive more visitors.

- The Nature Preserve doesn't have anything to do with the Dream World or Wi-Fi...

They're still affected regardless, which means my point still stands. Take a look at this quote from TV Tropes about them:

"While the games boast a very impressive repertoire of bonus features, many of them rely heavily on said WFC or inter-game communication, making them much more difficult to access and much less functional years after the games came out. A particularly notorious example is how the games' difficulty modes are tied to the Key System; Challenge Mode, a much-coveted and -desired feature in a Pokémon game, is finally available, but can only be accessed in Black 2 after beating the main storyline (i.e. long after it's actually needed), and can only be applied to either of the two games by communicating with another game that has Challenge Mode unlocked."

As a result, many of the features require either the Wi-Fi or another player, and both are not easy to access nowadays with the DS servers gone, including the coveted Challenge Mode. That's one of B2W2's biggest flaws, as you need another player (or another DS + another game) to even remotely access some of the more useful features in them. Thus the games are less functional without full access to ALL the content they could offer. As a result, BW is superior because they DIDN'T need the Wi-Fi/Dream World as much as B2W2 to fully use.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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1) Not really. Team Plasma lost a lot of their bite in the timeskip. Now they were purely generic bad guys while in BW they were self-aware hypocritical animal wrongs group. Their ability to be more convincing to the public was stronger in BW, especially with the whole "hero" thing. As for N I preferred him when you actually saw his character in action. In B2W2 he shows up at the climax (which Ghetsis wanted, effectively walking right into a trap) and that's pretty much it. He really didn't add much in B2W2 as in BW where you saw his growth in action. Yeah, Ghetsis is still hateable but he was far more suave and smooth in his actions in BW. In B2W2 he became more generic, albeit it still retaining most of his smarts, until he became a braindead vegetable at the end.
Team Plasma's new design in the sequels is a direct result of their plans failing. Ghetsis is like he is now because he knew that subtlety and smooth talk wouldn't work anymore, and decided to start a more direct approach for conquest. And Team Plasma was split up because some still genuinely believed in N's philosophy, and the ones who followed Ghetsis were the members of Team Plasma in BW who were in the team for the power it brought them.
And yeah, a big part of Unova is reserved for post-game in B2W2 but some segments were lost in the transition, such as Cold Storage, Route 10, Challenger's Cave, and most of Relic Castle, to name a few. There are a few new areas but most of the old areas in the post-game have been lost, so that's actually not as much to explore as before.
I don't think all that many areas were lost, especially when compared to the amount of new areas we got.
Try using a Ground type against Elisa? Aerial Ace and Flame Charge can tilt the scales (especially since most of the available Ground types were frail).
Rock Tomb TM is available before Elesa's Gym as well.
Us a Fighting type against Lenora? Herdier's Intimidate weakens their Attack and Watchog can just put them to sleep with Hypnosis (which hits more often than it should, especially since Gen 5's sleep mechanics were nearly as deadly as Gen 1's) or steamroll them with a well-timed Retaliate.
Retaliate is really only a risk once during the match, Cheren gives you Chesto Berries to counter Hypnosis as soon as you enter Nacrene City, and Intimidate doesn't matter two much due to being a one-off nerf and being able to be countered with Rock Smash (which is also available in Pinwheel Forest).
Use a Rock type against Brycen? Enter the Water move: Brine.
Fighting types from Twist Mountain don't mind Water moves.
 

Esserise

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They're still affected regardless, which means my point still stands. "While the games boast a very impressive repertoire of bonus features, many of them rely heavily on said WFC or inter-game communication, making them much more difficult to access and much less functional years after the games came out.

Two of the things you cited didn't even involve WFC to begin with (meaning that they aren't really affected at all), and to say that Medals relied "heavily" on it is a huge stretch. I'm still not getting a sense of "many" features being severely affected by this.

A particularly notorious example is how the games' difficulty modes are tied to the Key System; Challenge Mode, a much-coveted and -desired feature in a Pokémon game, is finally available, but can only be accessed in Black 2 after beating the main storyline (i.e. long after it's actually needed), and can only be applied to either of the two games by communicating with another game that has Challenge Mode unlocked."

I mean... this is true, I certainly won't deny that, but frankly, B2W2's difficulty settings are a whole other level of clown shoes and the fact that you need another system or Global Link to access them is just one of their many catastrophically stupid conditions.

As a result, BW is superior because they DIDN'T need the Wi-Fi/Dream World as much as B2W2 to fully use.

Okay but here's the thing: B2W2 still have loads more content that doesn't rely on WFC, and they still have most of the same features retained from BW themselves. You're literally getting more with B2W2, no matter how you slice it or how dented the occasional multiplayer-favoring feature may be after the servers were closed. (And really, multiplayer-favoring features have been a perennial fixture of this series. The games have always been enhanced by having friends to interact with; that's by design and BW aren't immune to it either. For example, Entralink in BW basically just doesn't serve a purpose at all anymore, whereas in B2W2 it's the hub for Funfest Missions, which unlike BW's own Entralink missions, actually can be done in single-player. Consequently, this also means that only B2W2 has single-player access to Pass Powers anymore. At any rate, I think "are affected by the closure of Wi-Fi servers/Dream World" and "are better enjoyed with friends" are not inherently the same problem. Medals aren't particularly disrupted by the former, but are a bit more so by the latter. Yet even then it's still only a partial disruption to a feature that BW just flat-out don't even have to offer.)

I mean, I think there are plenty of reasons to prefer BW over B2W2 - there are things that I prefer about BW myself - but I just find this particular line of criticism strange, personally.
 

CynthiaLover

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Team Plasma's new design in the sequels is a direct result of their plans failing. Ghetsis is like he is now because he knew that subtlety and smooth talk wouldn't work anymore, and decided to start a more direct approach for conquest. And Team Plasma was split up because some still genuinely believed in N's philosophy, and the ones who followed Ghetsis were the members of Team Plasma in BW who were in the team for the power it brought them.

I don't think all that many areas were lost, especially when compared to the amount of new areas we got.

Rock Tomb TM is available before Elesa's Gym as well.

Retaliate is really only a risk once during the match, Cheren gives you Chesto Berries to counter Hypnosis as soon as you enter Nacrene City, and Intimidate doesn't matter two much due to being a one-off nerf and being able to be countered with Rock Smash (which is also available in Pinwheel Forest).

Fighting types from Twist Mountain don't mind Water moves.

1) I'm aware of that but they're still less threatening than in BW. Their teams are also weaker. Ghetsis was more threatening because of his smooth-talking. Now he's just like every other generic doomsday villain, which is a downgrade to what made his character great.

2) We still lost a fair few areas like the ones I mentioned. It was probably an even trade but even still the region lost some good areas (and their music) in the transition, thus it's not as full as it could be.

3) Rock Tomb sucked in Gen 5 (50 BP, 80% accuracy, 10 PP), and it still wasn't enough to guarantee a win. Plus, again, Zebstrika's Flame Charge says hi. And there was Quick Attack and Pursuit to consider.

4) It's still a 70 BP move that gets STAB, which hits hard at that point in the game even if it doesn't get the bonus damage. And yeah, you could use Chesto Berries but that doesn't stop Hypnosis twice (and, again, it tends to land more often than it should). And Rock Smash's effect is a coin toss, meaning it's unreliable. Plus there are moves like Take Down, Bite, and Crunch to add extra hurting.

5) Yeah, but you also mentioned Rock Mons so I was pointing out that flaw. And Brycen's Ice Mons know Defense-boosting moves like Acid Armor and Reflect, so that reduces physical damage (though Reflect can be mitigated with Brick Break, which you can get in the same town). Plus, sadly, as much as I hate to say this, Ice Mons are just terrible overall, so his Gym is rather meh in terms of challenge right off the bat (no wonder he retired in B2W2).

I still stand by the fact that BW is superior to B2W2 because of my points both here and before. Now let's drop this before it turns into a cycle of attrition.
 

FinnishPokéFan92

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I still stand by the fact that BW is superior to B2W2 because of my points both here and before. Now let's drop this before it turns into a cycle of attrition.
Okay. I'll just leave these counterarguments first:
Their teams are also weaker.
The Grunts in B2W2 actually use a bigger variety of Pokémon, many of which are more intimidating than most Pokémon they used in BW.
2) We still lost a fair few areas like the ones I mentioned. It was probably an even trade but even still the region lost some good areas (and their music) in the transition, thus it's not as full as it could be.
We didn't really lose any music. Route 10's music, for example, can be heard in Icirrus City.
3) Rock Tomb sucked in Gen 5 (50 BP, 80% accuracy, 10 PP), and it still wasn't enough to guarantee a win. Plus, again, Zebstrika's Flame Charge says hi. And there was Quick Attack and Pursuit to consider.
Emolga can't switch out against a Ground type, giving the Ground type plenty chance to land a Rock Tomb. 80% isn't the worst accuracy possible and Emolga isn't exactly tanky.
And yeah, you could use Chesto Berries but that doesn't stop Hypnosis twice (and, again, it tends to land more often than it should).
Getting one extra hit in can be a difference between winning and losing.
And Rock Smash's effect is a coin toss, meaning it's unreliable.
I wouldn't call it unreliable because of that. It can be a huge help if you win the coin toss, which you are almost guaranteed to do at least once or twice.
 

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Two of the things you cited didn't even involve WFC to begin with (meaning that they aren't really affected at all), and to say that Medals relied "heavily" on it is a huge stretch. I'm still not getting a sense of "many" features being severely affected by this.



I mean... this is true, I certainly won't deny that, but frankly, B2W2's difficulty settings are a whole other level of clown shoes and the fact that you need another system or Global Link to access them is just one of their many catastrophically stupid conditions.



Okay but here's the thing: B2W2 still have loads more content that doesn't rely on WFC, and they still have most of the same features retained from BW themselves. You're literally getting more with B2W2, no matter how you slice it or how dented the occasional multiplayer-favoring feature may be after the servers were closed. (And really, multiplayer-favoring features have been a perennial fixture of this series. The games have always been enhanced by having friends to interact with; that's by design and BW aren't immune to it either. For example, Entralink in BW basically just doesn't serve a purpose at all anymore, whereas in B2W2 it's the hub for Funfest Missions, which unlike BW's own Entralink missions, actually can be done in single-player. Consequently, this also means that only B2W2 has single-player access to Pass Powers anymore. At any rate, I think "are affected by the closure of Wi-Fi servers/Dream World" and "are better enjoyed with friends" are not inherently the same problem. Medals aren't particularly disrupted by the former, but are a bit more so by the latter. Yet even then it's still only a partial disruption to a feature that BW just flat-out don't even have to offer.)

I mean, I think there are plenty of reasons to prefer BW over B2W2 - there are things that I prefer about BW myself - but I just find this particular line of criticism strange, personally.

I'm getting tired of this cycle of attrition...

Yes, I'll agree to your points. But I still consider BW superior because they weren't as reliant on Wi-Fi as B2W2, as they only really needed it for the Entralink. While B2W2 does offer more in general, I still don't like the fact that in order to get the full enjoyment you need the now-dead Wi-Fi. Yes, there are things you can do on your own but it's still not as functional as before, which is what I find to be a glaring flaw. You still lose some things in the process. Not to mention because of no more Wi-Fi you can't get certain bonus features for things like PWT. So the Wi-Fi is an issue that hampers B2W2 for me and many others, which has made B2W2 rather infamous regarding it. Now let's end this here and move on before we plague the thread with an argument.

Okay. I'll just leave these counterarguments first:

The Grunts in B2W2 actually use a bigger variety of Pokémon, many of which are more intimidating than most Pokémon they used in BW.

We didn't really lose any music. Route 10's music, for example, can be heard in Icirrus City.

Emolga can't switch out against a Ground type, giving the Ground type plenty chance to land a Rock Tomb. 80% isn't the worst accuracy possible and Emolga isn't exactly tanky.

Getting one extra hit in can be a difference between winning and losing.

I wouldn't call it unreliable because of that. It can be a huge help if you win the coin toss, which you are almost guaranteed to do at least once or twice.

1) Yeah, but bigger variety isn't much when they're still a lower threat level than before. And BW's AI was still smarter. EDIT: Also, most of the new Mons consist of Golbats, Grimers, and Koffings, which aren't exactly threatening compared to something like Krokorok or Scrafty.

2) I actually forgot about that. But I'd rather hear it from the route itself than a single spot in one town.

3) Elisa is capable of swapping her Mons on her own. She doesn't need to solely rely on Volt Switch to do it. I've seen her do it many times. And 80% accuracy is still a crapshoot regardless of tanky-ness, especially since the move still has pretty low power.

4) True, but considering that Watchog is faster than the resident Fighting-types at that point it doesn't really matter if it just pulls off the Hypnosis before you get the killing blow in. Plus, even if you manually remove Sleep the AI seems to click Hypnosis just as you do, bringing they cycle back around again. And, as always, Gym Leaders pack Potions, so that pretty much nullifies that if you're not quick enough and get caught snoozing again when that happens. There's a reason why Lenora is considered a That One Boss.

5) A coin toss is still a coin toss, and I've seen several use Rock Smash during her battle and never get the Defense-lowering effect, myself included, rendering its usage moot. So I'd rather use a move that pretty much guarantees the effect instead of banking on a coin toss that may never play in your favor.

Now, let's end this because I'm getting exhausted from this continuous cycle.
 
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I tend to find myself replaying BW more than B2W2, but I think both games have their strengths. I think I prefer the path of action in BW over the one in B2W2, but I defintely love the expanded region in the latter. One day, I will find a rom hack that has both the original story beats AND the ability to crawl underneath Castelia. Or, y'know, maybe in a future remake or something lol.
 

Gengarzilla

"What do you mean, my Gengarite is contraband?!"
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Again, not a contest. I'd always take B2W2 first. Not just for its many added features but because teambuilding is a lot more interesting when the story never restricts you to just Gen 5 Pokémon. I hated when they did that with Gen 1 Pokémon in FRLG and near enough applauded when they dropped that dumb idea for this gen's sequels. In BW I just gave up on teambuilding and clogged my team with Ghost types because, ugh, I wasn't keen on much of the other stuff at the time.
 
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