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Inspired by the SM vs. USUM thread. Which pair of Generation V games is your favourite, and why?
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You really should play them someday. I'm sure you'd love them.I haven't played B2W2, but that game has movies and the World Tournament, so yeah, that makes it my favorite of the two.
I'm not going to vote, though. I don't want to mess up the data.
I've gotta start White first lolYou really should play them someday. I'm sure you'd love them.
Those things are IMO still true in B2W2 as well. Team Plasma literally freezes over an entire city with a Legendary Pokémon they've caught, N has realized the error of his ways and grown as a character while also not abandoning the core of his beliefs, Ghetsis is still as hateable as ever, and a big part of Unova is reserved for the post-game.Team Plasma was at their most threatening in BW, N was at his best, the main villain was one you'd loved to hate, you had an entire half a region for a post-game
PWT, Memory Link, and Pokéstar Studios respectfully disagree. I've played through B2W2 many times, but never has my lack of access to the Dream World been detrimental to my enjoyment of the side content.While I won't deny that B2W2 had more content, the fact of the matter is a sizable amount of that content was too heavily dependent on the now-defuncted Dream World, while BW didn't have that restriction (or at least not as much).
Easy counters are available in both games: you can get an elemental monkey to counter the Striaton Gym, Pinwheel Forest has Fighting types to deal with Lenora, Elesa's Electric Gym is preceded by a route filled with Ground types, Skyla's Flying Gym is reached through a cave filled with Electric Pokémon, and Brycen's Ice Gym is preceded by a mountain full of Fighting and Rock Pokémon, to name some examples.I also preferred BW's Gym Leaders and their teams, since they weren't as easy to counter compared to B2W2 (for example, in B2W2 you could simply catch a Magnemite to stonewall Roxie, and Burgh's team was even weaker thanks to the removal of Dwebble for a Swadloon).
That's obviously a matter of preference, so I won't debate it, but I personally prefer Iris, even if Alder was a great Champion too. May I ask why you prefer him?Plus I prefer Adler as a Champion over Iris.
Well, not quite with Memory Link. It’s great if you have two DS systems, but for anyone who doesn’t, it’s no longer accessible because Memory Linking with one console did rely on the Global Link website.PWT, Memory Link, and Pokéstar Studios respectfully disagree. I've played through B2W2 many times, but never has my lack of access to the Dream World been detrimental to my enjoyment of the side content.
Those things are IMO still true in B2W2 as well. Team Plasma literally freezes over an entire city with a Legendary Pokémon they've caught, N has realized the error of his ways and grown as a character while also not abandoning the core of his beliefs, Ghetsis is still as hateable as ever, and a big part of Unova is reserved for the post-game.
PWT, Memory Link, and Pokéstar Studios respectfully disagree. I've played through B2W2 many times, but never has my lack of access to the Dream World been detrimental to my enjoyment of the side content.
Easy counters are available in both games: you can get an elemental monkey to counter the Striaton Gym, Pinwheel Forest has Fighting types to deal with Lenora, Elesa's Electric Gym is preceded by a route filled with Ground types, Skyla's Flying Gym is reached through a cave filled with Electric Pokémon, and Brycen's Ice Gym is preceded by a mountain full of Fighting and Rock Pokémon, to name some examples.
That's obviously a matter of preference, so I won't debate it, but I personally prefer Iris, even if Alder was a great Champion too. May I ask why you prefer him?
2) I'm aware of those side-quests, which I admit are fun (although they can get repetitive after a bit). But things like Funfest Missions, a chunk of the Medals, the full potential of Join Avenue, the Nature Preserve's full potential, and others all of those relied too heavily on the DS Wi-Fi and Dream World, which means they went either became inaccessible or much harder to maximize once the DS servers went down. So, as a result, B2W2 lost a chunk of its special features due to the servers going down. Plus you could only do each of the Memory Link stuff once so that felt a bit wasted.
All of those things are only partially affected, though.
- Funfest Missions can be done just fine solo (in fact I've only ever done them solo and I thought they were really fun). Besides that, Funfest Missions were always local wireless - they never used Wi-Fi services in the first place.
- Literally only 8 out of 255 medals are rendered inaccessible by the closure of Wi-Fi services; there are still more than plenty to collect. Granted, there are several Medals that are really only feasible to obtain if you have nearby friends who are also playing the game, but that's a different sort of hurdle.
- Join Avenue is a hassle now, yes, but it can work without Wi-Fi. Again, if you have nearby friends with their own copy of the game, that's another method by which you can receive more visitors.
- The Nature Preserve doesn't have anything to do with the Dream World or Wi-Fi...
Team Plasma's new design in the sequels is a direct result of their plans failing. Ghetsis is like he is now because he knew that subtlety and smooth talk wouldn't work anymore, and decided to start a more direct approach for conquest. And Team Plasma was split up because some still genuinely believed in N's philosophy, and the ones who followed Ghetsis were the members of Team Plasma in BW who were in the team for the power it brought them.1) Not really. Team Plasma lost a lot of their bite in the timeskip. Now they were purely generic bad guys while in BW they were self-aware hypocritical animal wrongs group. Their ability to be more convincing to the public was stronger in BW, especially with the whole "hero" thing. As for N I preferred him when you actually saw his character in action. In B2W2 he shows up at the climax (which Ghetsis wanted, effectively walking right into a trap) and that's pretty much it. He really didn't add much in B2W2 as in BW where you saw his growth in action. Yeah, Ghetsis is still hateable but he was far more suave and smooth in his actions in BW. In B2W2 he became more generic, albeit it still retaining most of his smarts, until he became a braindead vegetable at the end.
I don't think all that many areas were lost, especially when compared to the amount of new areas we got.And yeah, a big part of Unova is reserved for post-game in B2W2 but some segments were lost in the transition, such as Cold Storage, Route 10, Challenger's Cave, and most of Relic Castle, to name a few. There are a few new areas but most of the old areas in the post-game have been lost, so that's actually not as much to explore as before.
Rock Tomb TM is available before Elesa's Gym as well.Try using a Ground type against Elisa? Aerial Ace and Flame Charge can tilt the scales (especially since most of the available Ground types were frail).
Retaliate is really only a risk once during the match, Cheren gives you Chesto Berries to counter Hypnosis as soon as you enter Nacrene City, and Intimidate doesn't matter two much due to being a one-off nerf and being able to be countered with Rock Smash (which is also available in Pinwheel Forest).Us a Fighting type against Lenora? Herdier's Intimidate weakens their Attack and Watchog can just put them to sleep with Hypnosis (which hits more often than it should, especially since Gen 5's sleep mechanics were nearly as deadly as Gen 1's) or steamroll them with a well-timed Retaliate.
Fighting types from Twist Mountain don't mind Water moves.Use a Rock type against Brycen? Enter the Water move: Brine.
They're still affected regardless, which means my point still stands. "While the games boast a very impressive repertoire of bonus features, many of them rely heavily on said WFC or inter-game communication, making them much more difficult to access and much less functional years after the games came out.
A particularly notorious example is how the games' difficulty modes are tied to the Key System; Challenge Mode, a much-coveted and -desired feature in a Pokémon game, is finally available, but can only be accessed in Black 2 after beating the main storyline (i.e. long after it's actually needed), and can only be applied to either of the two games by communicating with another game that has Challenge Mode unlocked."
As a result, BW is superior because they DIDN'T need the Wi-Fi/Dream World as much as B2W2 to fully use.
Team Plasma's new design in the sequels is a direct result of their plans failing. Ghetsis is like he is now because he knew that subtlety and smooth talk wouldn't work anymore, and decided to start a more direct approach for conquest. And Team Plasma was split up because some still genuinely believed in N's philosophy, and the ones who followed Ghetsis were the members of Team Plasma in BW who were in the team for the power it brought them.
I don't think all that many areas were lost, especially when compared to the amount of new areas we got.
Rock Tomb TM is available before Elesa's Gym as well.
Retaliate is really only a risk once during the match, Cheren gives you Chesto Berries to counter Hypnosis as soon as you enter Nacrene City, and Intimidate doesn't matter two much due to being a one-off nerf and being able to be countered with Rock Smash (which is also available in Pinwheel Forest).
Fighting types from Twist Mountain don't mind Water moves.
Okay. I'll just leave these counterarguments first:I still stand by the fact that BW is superior to B2W2 because of my points both here and before. Now let's drop this before it turns into a cycle of attrition.
The Grunts in B2W2 actually use a bigger variety of Pokémon, many of which are more intimidating than most Pokémon they used in BW.Their teams are also weaker.
We didn't really lose any music. Route 10's music, for example, can be heard in Icirrus City.2) We still lost a fair few areas like the ones I mentioned. It was probably an even trade but even still the region lost some good areas (and their music) in the transition, thus it's not as full as it could be.
Emolga can't switch out against a Ground type, giving the Ground type plenty chance to land a Rock Tomb. 80% isn't the worst accuracy possible and Emolga isn't exactly tanky.3) Rock Tomb sucked in Gen 5 (50 BP, 80% accuracy, 10 PP), and it still wasn't enough to guarantee a win. Plus, again, Zebstrika's Flame Charge says hi. And there was Quick Attack and Pursuit to consider.
Getting one extra hit in can be a difference between winning and losing.And yeah, you could use Chesto Berries but that doesn't stop Hypnosis twice (and, again, it tends to land more often than it should).
I wouldn't call it unreliable because of that. It can be a huge help if you win the coin toss, which you are almost guaranteed to do at least once or twice.And Rock Smash's effect is a coin toss, meaning it's unreliable.
Two of the things you cited didn't even involve WFC to begin with (meaning that they aren't really affected at all), and to say that Medals relied "heavily" on it is a huge stretch. I'm still not getting a sense of "many" features being severely affected by this.
I mean... this is true, I certainly won't deny that, but frankly, B2W2's difficulty settings are a whole other level of clown shoes and the fact that you need another system or Global Link to access them is just one of their many catastrophically stupid conditions.
Okay but here's the thing: B2W2 still have loads more content that doesn't rely on WFC, and they still have most of the same features retained from BW themselves. You're literally getting more with B2W2, no matter how you slice it or how dented the occasional multiplayer-favoring feature may be after the servers were closed. (And really, multiplayer-favoring features have been a perennial fixture of this series. The games have always been enhanced by having friends to interact with; that's by design and BW aren't immune to it either. For example, Entralink in BW basically just doesn't serve a purpose at all anymore, whereas in B2W2 it's the hub for Funfest Missions, which unlike BW's own Entralink missions, actually can be done in single-player. Consequently, this also means that only B2W2 has single-player access to Pass Powers anymore. At any rate, I think "are affected by the closure of Wi-Fi servers/Dream World" and "are better enjoyed with friends" are not inherently the same problem. Medals aren't particularly disrupted by the former, but are a bit more so by the latter. Yet even then it's still only a partial disruption to a feature that BW just flat-out don't even have to offer.)
I mean, I think there are plenty of reasons to prefer BW over B2W2 - there are things that I prefer about BW myself - but I just find this particular line of criticism strange, personally.
Okay. I'll just leave these counterarguments first:
The Grunts in B2W2 actually use a bigger variety of Pokémon, many of which are more intimidating than most Pokémon they used in BW.
We didn't really lose any music. Route 10's music, for example, can be heard in Icirrus City.
Emolga can't switch out against a Ground type, giving the Ground type plenty chance to land a Rock Tomb. 80% isn't the worst accuracy possible and Emolga isn't exactly tanky.
Getting one extra hit in can be a difference between winning and losing.
I wouldn't call it unreliable because of that. It can be a huge help if you win the coin toss, which you are almost guaranteed to do at least once or twice.