Review BW042: Decisive Don Battle! Satoshi VS Iris!!

[Ishida]

Let's review this trainwreck!

[U]Good points[/U]

+ Dent: Sooooooo much. I loved his characterization in this episode. I loved how he was vain because there was a camera and that he was a bit sweet. Also, love the sommelier focus.

+ Cabernet: I liked the characterization and development for her in this episode. We saw doubt, we saw a dent in her armor (lame pun XD). We saw the rivalry and relationship evolve and morph. I loved it, I really feel this is one of the more compelling storyline of Best Wishes so far.

+ Dent and Cabernet doing the Team Sommelier's motto: IT WAS MAGICAL, I CRIED... : P Cabernet, put down that glass of bubbly you alcoholic freak. XD

Lukewarm points

- Luke (no pun intended): The writers kept the personality he had last episode, but I kinda wish we had more definite idea of where they were going with his character. Is he collecting badges?

- Bel: Really didn't like that the writers insist on writing her in a zoruacentric perspective, but she was actually funny at times.

Bad points (and there's a loooot of them...)

- Kibago v Gobitto battle: It was cheap. How cheap? Wal Mart wishes their prices were this cheap. Ultimately, it was cheap because the writers showed Iris being totally moronic in calling a scratch attack against a ghost type when we see Zorua on the sidelines, so she knows this isn't Zorua. We see Luke actually being very good, coming up with different tactics to counter Kibago's attacks. Kibago is shown to not be able to handle an opponent of that caliber, is shown to not be able to handle more than 2 attacks without being tired and barely able to move, which just goes to show Kibago hasn't progressed since his battle with Tsunbear, that Iris hasn't been working with him at all and then poof. And then poof, magically Kibago learns Outrage, the most powerful physical Dragon attack, has no control problems with it, totally owns Gobitto without Iris having to come up with anything. It wasn't earned, it was a hollow victory much like her two Emonga wins and...

- Doryuuzu v Pikachu battle: Again, it was cheap. I agree that the matchup didn't favor Satoshi, but the Satoshi has actually shown to be able to overcome that by thinking outside the box, using original strategies and the environment, which the writers did do in this battle. I disagree a bit with those who say that the writers made it easy for Iris by having Satoshi carry the idiot ball since Satoshi did that spin thing to raise Iron Tail's power. Satoshi was consitant with his usual characterization. He has a knack for finding original ways to use his pokémon's attack and finding solutions to win battles... except he didn't. Therein lies the cheapness. Much like the Kibago match, Iris wasn't thinking of any strategy, wasn't really trying to do anything different, wasn't doing anything but calling out attacks after attacks and yet, she wins with ease. It just makes it seem like even if Satoshi, with his strongest and oldest pokémon, comes up with good strategies and original moves, she doesn't even have to try to beat him. There's no struggle, no nothing. It's just bad storytelling.

- Iris: As a character beyond the two cheapfests was a low point in this episode. She wasn't interesting in the least. Both her battles just left me cold and didn't instill any emotion in me, her interactions were dull... she just isn't compelling to watch. This is a journey shonen anime, the whole point is to show characters grow through the journey, be confronted, struggle, change, work hard... Iris doesn't do any of that, so why is she on a journey if there's nothing for her to gain from it since she's already apparantly super good at everything. The writers really haven't justified Iris' presence on the main cast.

- Langley: Once again, she felt like Iris's prop and her personality and likeability took a nosedive because of it. She was boring bitch who seemed there to be jealous of Iris' magnificence... meh.

- Gamagaru: Two seconds battle and it's not even there at dinner time where the writers could have shown some personality for Gamagaru, have him interact with other pokémon... but no...

- Kenyan: Dull. period.

Overall, it wasn't a horrible episode, the art was good, though a lot of recycled animation, but really, as I was watching it and I felt nothing. This is an arc, the finals of a tournament... it supposed to be uplifting, exciting, as the audience, I'm supposed to feel invested in this but... the lack of buildup and the lack of compelling personality from all finalists and semifinalists and their pokémon really left the arc down and made it feel pointless and uncompelling.

It seems like you always like the Cilan and Cabernet parts of the episodes even when they don't do anything just because you like them I'm not saying they didn't do anything this episode I'm just pointing that out. And how was the Ash and Iris battle cheap it seemed well handeled to me it's not like Excadrill one shotted Pikachu and it's not like Pikachu went down like it was nothing, it seems like your using your bias against Iris to deem both of the battles cheap.

 

[Lafayette Excadrill]

My main issue with this episode was that everybody talked too much at the wrong times.

Why did Axew win against Golett as quickly as it did? Why did it take Excadrill less than five minutes to defeat Pikachu in a single battle? Could we say that more than half of this episode was spent entirely on character interactions that some of us take for granted?

Thats the problem with the whole tournament, not just this episode.

 

[Sweet Veil]

Gamagaru really is just awesome, this ep showed more of his cool newness xD Nice animation and detail by the way, and Kenyan is starting to look like a red headed fat Dento. I love Luke and Iris's chemistry a lot as well. Gobitto looked awesome in Gyro Ball mode. Kibago's Legendary Wrath looked awesome, looked like he was a Kung-Fu fighter with those DBZ-level hits, the movements were so fluent like with Takeshi's awesome Gregguru fighting in the Darkrai movie's opening battle.

Langley recognized Iris's true power and this rivalry is getting more interesting and intense, she even sweats just looking at Kibago. Bel and her Zorua antics are just weird, Zorua poor poor Zorua being reduced to a fucking Paris Hilton puppy or the dogs dumb blonds have. It annoying especially when in game Zorua is great. But, at least Bel was happy.

Also I still don't really understand why people complain so much about the Don Battle, if it wasn't up to your standards maybe the writers should be the aim of your blame. But, I still never heard anyone complain about Dento beating Shuuti, and Satoshi never actually beating Dento during the Don Battle. Thus a rivalry being butchered by super fan standards. Or Tsutarja when she is about to be defeated getting lucky with Komatana getting stuck. Emonga chose to obey simply because she battles when she wants to that it. Kibago learning Dragon's Wrath was luck, just like with Buoysel and Water Pulse and Elekid evolving in the middle of the battle, and Ishizumai getting Rock Slide. Shinji and Satoshi had their rivalry developed during the tournament, him winning the Tag Battle did nothing for the rivalry I don't see why he should have won this one. So, yeah it was a fiercely fought Don Battle. My only gripe was I wish the battles were better and longer.

If Kenyan doesn't know to not use In Fight over in over or it will lower the Defense, or Satoshi uses Thunderbolt right off the bat despite using his Zukan on Doryuuzu they deserve to lose that's basic, and only a kid would make that mistake. That battle had a zesty taste for me actually ^^;

Glad to see Cabby and Dento on good terms xD

more to come later

Poor Pikachu ;_;

 

[CommanderPigg]

If this arc had a name, it'd be called Kenny. A few good moments, but overall a waste of time and potential.

Actually, the last episode had a LOT of great moments. I absolutely adored it when Dento acted "in character" for the camera and of course the celestial tasting time. The Cabernet/Dento scene was really cute too...it seems like she's a bit more understanding of him now Luke wasn't that bad either, his interactions with Bel are endearing (and it looks like he uses Adobe Premier to edit his videos ) Rival departure...was really long. XD

And the Pika vs. Excadrill battle was pretty enjoyable, and I have no problem with how things turned out...it seemed realistic enough, but the fact that the final battle had to end up like that was just really unlucky on Ash's part. This is mainly because...

Iris should have never gone to the finals. Did Axew seriously just learn outrage out of nowhere because it was out of breath? (Okay, I was seriously loling at how slow it was against that gyro ball XD) What sound does a baby chicken make? That was my major upset with the episode.

 

[Cybersai]

I assume they're setting up Ash Vs. Iris for the 8th Gym. Good episode but I feel this is worse for Ash.

Man, Ash went from being a lovable loser in the previous sagas to being a just plain loser in BW. Ash needs to win too sometimes.

 

[Hellwarden]

You know fanbase, if we're going to call Iris's win over Luke cheap because Axew learned a new move on the brink of defeat to pull off a win, then a lot of characters have had BS wins in Pokemon history. And from this point on, I expect these same complainers to call out EVERY SINGLE TIME it happens from here on, regardless of the characters involved.....


....otherwise you might be bashing it for another reason....

 

[The Puppetmaster]

This thread's about the episode, not the fanbase.

 

[CommanderPigg]

I would think that they would at least make the move learning scene a bit more dramatic, make him struggle a bit more...actually get thrashed around for a bit instead of just make him a bit tired from running. I don't rage when I'm tired from running, but I think I'd rage if someone was beating up on me. The whole situation just seemed really silly in my opinion. And of course, the convenience of the matter didn't make things better either...that Gollet was down with two hits afterwards. Realistically, had outrage activated in the earlier part of the battle, the effects of confusion and fatigue could have kicked in, causing Axew's likely downfall. Iris could then work on Axew's stamina in later episodes, or at least be more cautious of it. But I honestly have no idea what direction they're going to take with this...the win wasn't exactly the prime keystone in development.

 

[Catzeye]

....otherwise you might be bashing it for another reason....

Unfortunately, I think I know exactly what you mean by that -.-

I would think that they would at least make the move learning scene a bit more dramatic, make him struggle a bit more...actually get thrashed around for a bit instead of just make him a bit tired from running. I don't rage when I'm tired from running, but I think I'd rage if someone was beating up on me. The whole situation just seemed really silly in my opinion. And of course, the convenience of the matter didn't make things better either...that Gollet was down with two hits afterwards. Realistically, had outrage activated in the earlier part of the battle, the effects of confusion and fatigue could have kicked in, causing Axew's likely downfall. Iris could then work on Axew's stamina in later episodes, or at least be more cautious of it. But I honestly have no idea what direction they're going to take with this...the win wasn't exactly the prime keystone in development.

I see it Outrage going one of three ways:

A) The fact that it worked perfectly this time was a fluke. Kind of like how Gible's first successful Draco Meteor was a fluke. The next couple of times Axew uses it, it doesn't work the way it should

B) It becomes the Blaze of the Best Wishes saga. Every time it uses it goes on a rampage. This would probably get worse if Axew evolves

C) Nothing happens, it's just another stepping stone for Axew.



The only reason why the Axew vs Golett battle seemed a little off to me was the fact that Axew doesn't have the experience that Golett does. However it's not like we haven't seen other young Pokemon kick the crap out of something a bit more experience (Happiny, Cyndaquil, Eevee, and Phanpy).

 

[Eitarou]

C) Nothing happens, it's just another stepping stone for Axew.

I don't know...this seems a lot like something....

B seems the most likely.

 

[CrazyYanmega]

Also I still don't really understand why people complain so much about the Don Battle, if it wasn't up to your standards maybe the writers should be the aim of your blame. But, I still never heard anyone complain about Dento beating Shuuti, and Satoshi never actually beating Dento during the Don Battle. Thus a rivalry being butchered by super fan standards. Or Tsutarja when she is about to be defeated getting lucky with Komatana getting stuck. Emonga chose to obey simply because she battles when she wants to that it. Kibago learning Dragon's Wrath was luck, just like with Buoysel and Water Pulse and Elekid evolving in the middle of the battle, and Ishizumai getting Rock Slide. Shinji and Satoshi had there rivalry developed during the tournament, him winning the Tag Battle did nothing for the rivalry I don't see why he should have won this one. So, yeah it was a fiercely fought Don Battle. My only gripe was I wish the battles were better and longer.

If Kenyan doesn't know to not use In Fight over in over or it will lower the Defense, or Satoshi uses Thunderbolt right off the bat despite using his Zukan on Doryuuzu they deserve to lose that's basic, and only a kid would make that mistake. That battle had a zesty taste for me actually ^^;

Poor Pikachu ;_;

Dento actually told Ishizumai to use Rockslide, so it wasn't like Kibago just using Outrage all of a sudden.

Speaking of Outrage, I really enjoyed seeing it.

About Pikachu using Thunderbolt on Doryuuzu: Satoshi outright states that he knew it wouldn't do anything, and that it was just to get pumped up. I distinctly heard him say something about "Kiai" when Iris called him on it.

 

[Paulisthebest]

Well, I FINALLY saw the episode and what I'm going to talk about is mainly on the battles.

But one side note, the animation at the start of the episode seemed a bit weird and I'm mainly referring to Iris, I know she's skinny but she looked extra anorexic at the start of the episode.

Axew was cute running for Gyro Ball xD

It panting from being tired and then going all "Infernape" on Golett was insane! I felt bad for it because it was getting DBZ'ed by Axew and then sent flying into the wall!

Using Scratch on a Ghost type...what a little kid! (though Ash has proven to make similar mistakes in the past)

I liked how Outrage is portrayed in the anime like the games the user is on a violent rampage that confuses it after awhile, but like the games when the match was over Axew calmed down (something Chimchar had a hard time learning at first).

As for the final battle it was good, but as some of you already mentioned too much talking stole time from the match and it made it like Quilava vs. Armaldo almost because that time that was missing due to talking made the match less epic than what it could have been if more time was focused on it.

I was proud of Ash and those 2 Iron Tails that hit the mark sending Excadrill into the ground like that! It looked like it took damage but really it got back up ready to fight and the marks on it that look like damage marks were probably just dirt marks from being slammed into the stadium floor.

I felt so bad for Pikachu trying its best only to get Focus Blasted into the wall like that. After dodging that Dig I thought the match was just about to heat up with the music in the background because I knew something epic was going to happen instead the match was just ended abruptly kind of like Ash's Turtwig vs. Paul's Chimchar at the end battle of Different Strokes for Different Blokes.

Shoot, then Pikachu was exhausted out there, where's that endurance you had against Flint's Infernape, Pikachu? Now would have been the perfect time to see it in action!

Excadrill is kind of like a bully from my perspective. I mean Pikachu and Ash's reputations are not that good, I mean Pikachu getting its tail caught by Excadrill come on now falling for something like that is not really except-able for a trainer like Ash.

That spinning Iron Tail, Pikachu used was pretty cool showing a little bit of the old-Ash style of battle.

However, I just don't like the way Ash has been getting his ass handed to him in the BW series and even the wins he gets most of them are just so cheap its not even funny.

 

[CrazyYanmega]

I felt so bad for Pikachu trying its best only to get Focus Blasted into the wall like that. After dodging that Dig I thought the match was just about to heat up with the music in the background because I knew something epic was going to happen instead the match was just ended abruptly kind of like Ash's Turtwig vs. Paul's Chimchar at the end battle of Different Strokes for Different Blokes.

THE WRITERS used Fake Out!
It was Super Effective!

But seriously, sometimes even the best of plans and inventiveness just can't overcome a terrible Type disadvantage.

 

[Paulisthebest]

THE WRITERS used Fake Out!
It was Super Effective!

But seriously, sometimes even the best of plans and inventiveness just can't overcome a terrible Type disadvantage.

Haha good one!

Very true, it was just a crappy lose though it was no excitement to the match. It kind of relates to Pikachu losing to Snivy, Servine, Panpour, etc. One would say that like Dawn winning to Wallace Cup against May to get back her confidence is like Iris winning here with Excadrill to build back their bond even more because its been YEARS since they battled as a team.

 

[RemRem]

Ash needs to win too sometimes.

for someone who will probably make it to the final in the league he really needs more wins this saga

 

[Trainer Gabriel]

The problem isn't her soley beating Ash, but her development so far overall, and her role in this tournament in general. I said before, if Iris's Pokemon had been legitimately developed it would seem less jarring that she would be able to make it this far in the tournament in the first place. I would even accepted her winning. But instead, they convenience her throughout this entire tournament, making her a very un-compelling character overall. This tournament was just a waste of time..as really nothing developed anyway. If they wanted to show her compotent, they shouldn't have spend the first 30 episodes of her doing nothing, or giving her Pokemon with issues if nothing is going to come out of it...solving them whenever it's convenient for her.

I really couldn't agree more with this.

The Iris vs Luke match alone made this a jarring tournament for me. Everything else was at least bearable even though, as mentioned, the whole event seemed to be geared in favor of Iris (but there's no reason to delve into that anymore).
My main problem with the match is not just that Axew learned a new move to win, but that it learned the move with no previous development, just in the nick of time to save Iris from a loss, and won the whole match with that move alone. It simply acquired Outrage just when it was about to get KO'ed, and just effortlessly beat up Golett without Iris giving it the command. I think it might almost be more accurate to say that Axew won that match, not Iris.

Before people go on about how that has happened in the past, it was mainly in OS where cop-outs like that happened. DP went the extra mile by having Pokemon learn new moves through on-screen training episodes (at least for the most part). The writers should continue to have the heroes and their Pokemon go through on-screen devolopment and training instead of just pulling new moves out of nowhere at the most convenient times like in this case. Because there's really no excuse for them to not do so.

 

[Hellion]

Axew learned a new move on the brink of defeat to pull off a win, then a lot of characters have had BS wins in Pokemon history.

In my case, the argument is not and has never been that learning a new move/evolving mid-battle was cheap. Once again, you have to look at it tjrough a holistic approach. A pokémon learning a new move mid-battle is a plot point, neither good nor bad in and out of itself. What makes is good or bad is actually how it relates to other elements of the story: the buildup (or lack thereof), the presence (or absence of development), the realistic nature of the new trait gained based on the current state of the character, the situation in which the trait is gained, etc. In Kibago's case...

Was there any buildup prior to Outrage being learned? Was Kibago shown to be able to win the battle or battles without it?

No. Given that Kibago cannot handle pokémon of that caliber and hasn't made any stride to being more apt at doing so means that learning the move was a way for the writers to circumvent developing Kibago, making it progress, struggle, work hard, get better to the point where it can handle its own in battle, point where learning a new move would be the logical conclusion of the arc. Here, it didn't happen. Compare and contrast to, for example, Dent's Ishizumai who grew stronger and more assured as a battler under Dent, battled frequently, was shown to handle a variety of opponents beforehand, so much that it having learned a new move prior to the battle felt like a natural progressing that didn't break suspension of disbelief.​

Did Outrage leave the balance of power unchanged in the battle? Was Iris forced to try different strategies, change, adapt, learn something new in this battle?

No. It completely reversed the trend. Kibago was getting creamed by Gobitto, was not able to land a hit and looked about ready to have to call it quits after two attacks. New move learned and poof, the total opposite happens. The writers used Outrage to circumvent Iris and Kibago from having to actually work, adapt, come up with some different strategy. Ultimately, there wasn't any character development because of the new move. Compare and contrast to Buizel learning Water Pulse in his battle against Lucario. The forces in presence where evenly matched prior and after the move was learned, and the move itself wasn't used as the be all and end all killing blow to end the battle​

Was Kibago learning a move as powerful as Outrage realistic given the level of skill it was usually portrayed to have?

No. Kibago can't hold its own in trainer battles, and despite a little training, has very little strenght and stamina, and yet can learn the most powerful physical Dragon type move there is. Outrage wasn't consistent with the characterization that Kibago had gone through before and even during the beginning of this battle, which makes the learning of the move a poor and uncompelling substitute for actual development.​

Was the battle inconsequential?

No. It the semifinals of a tournament. The pokémon that compete there are supposed to be battle ready, be able to handle the caliber of opponents in the tournament, which Kibago and to a lesser extent Iris weren't shown to be able to do. Once again, the new move circumvents the earlier characterization.​

All cases are different and must be judged on their own merits and how they are influenced and influence the story, so one move learned in the middle of battle might be good in some situations while bad in others.

 

[Necrozma]

Was there any buildup prior to Outrage being learned? Was Kibago shown to be able to win the battle or battles without it?

Nope, and he's not the first one to get that treatment.

No. Given that Kibago cannot handle pokémon of that caliber and hasn't made any stride to being more apt at doing so means that learning the move was a way for the writers to circumvent developing Kibago, making it progress, struggle, work hard, get better to the point where it can handle its own in battle, point where learning a new move would be the logical conclusion of the arc. Here, it didn't happen. Compare and contrast to, for example, Dent's Ishizumai who grew stronger and more assured as a battler under Dent, battled frequently, was shown to handle a variety of opponents beforehand, so much that it having learned a new move prior to the battle felt like a natural progressing that didn't break suspension of disbelief.​

Lol, using Dento's Ishizumai as a comparison is a really bad thing to do right now mainly because Ishizumai was always a Pokémon demonstrated without any issues, problems or development. Ishizumai was naturally strong from the very beginning and never lost a single battle under Dento's command. And then he goes off learning a new move? Apparently, Dento's Pokémon don't need to work hard (writers just let him win every battle because Dento is so awesome) and have him summon the rocks from the sky because the plot demands Ash's main rival loses to Dento who just needs to proceed in the next round so he can be more fabulous. Beautiful comparison you did right there, at least Kibago went through some development. Ishizumai may be cute, but meh in development. By meh, I mean = no development at all.

Was Iris forced to try different strategies, change, adapt, learn something new in this battle?

No and she couldn't. Because:

a) Kibago's new power came out of nowhere.
b) Kibago was suddenly kicking Golett's ass under rage.
c) Kibago was under Outrage so there was no way Iris could come up with anything else.

 

[Bandit Keith]

So, because Pokemon should only learn moves of their "caliber", Axew should learn Leer? Dudes, relax. Remember, all Pokemon possess great power, and learn this fact at different rates. Axew does this at a faster rate than say, Piplup, due to Axew not needing the extra training Piplup did due to Contests. Iris and Dawn differ in the same way due to their different goals taking different lengths of time. No Pokemon or Trainer has to pull the Borg every day, you know. Please get off the DP standard, quit treating Iris like Dawn, and settle in to the show's more flexible format due to Iris's non-competition-oriented goals.

P.S. Iris did have cheap-DEM-Mary Sue-Trollbias(Now TrollIris) wins, though. But the episode was at least dramatic, and I still like Iris.(And Axew)(And still hate Cilan/Burgundy/Connoisseurs/Connaisseuses/their kind of QUACKERY.)

 

[WatcherMark]

Am I the only person who thinks that one of the rules of the Don Battle may have been that, assuming you progressed, you had to use all of your Pokemon at least once?

It kinda makes sense, if you consider the fact that, if Iris hadn't used Axew against Golett then she would have to have used him during the battle against Ash where she knew that Ash would be using Pikachu and Axew would have had a huge disadvantage while Excadrill would have been perfect for that match.

Of course, if this was true, then Ash should have known better than to use Palpitoad against Dino because then it could have been used in the finals (where he knew that each of his possible opponents had a ground-type on them).