Review BW085: Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!

[Shinneth]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

The problem I still have with this scenario, even if it's confirmed that Cynthia was going easy on Iris (which does make this battle a bit easier to stomach), is that Iris is an arrogant kid who needs to be knocked down a peg in her own right. She doesn't come off that way to Cynthia, of course, which explains why Cynthia pretty much gave her a hand-out, but Iris is pretty haughty and convinced that her methods are the best way to go without taking on anyone's help, even though her pace is that of a near-dead slug's. Even with the uberlame excuse that everyone does their Pokemon training off-screen in BW, it's shown through Axew's mannerisms during the rare times it does battle that it has made very little progress since the series began almost 2 years ago.

It's heavily implied that Iris is aware that she's been pretty damn negligent in her duties as an aspiring Dragon Master because of Axew's lack of progress (because learning three moves, two of which it had no business learning in the first place, hardly counts as progress given how they were actually learned, i.e. deus ex machina plot magic), and I don't think it's coincidental that she's suddenly much more chipper in these recent episodes now that she doesn't have to face Drayden in Opelucid City. As of right now, Iris dodged having to own up to her flaws and evaded her imminent serving of humble pie; she completely got of scot-free. This is very likely to change once the tournament rolls around, but right now Iris has been terribly overdue for being knocked down a peg herself. Not once has this series addressed these flaws (except the lampshading through Georgia, which I suspect the writers don't expect us to take her seriously), and in every Iris-centered episode, the skills she already possesses are glorified rather than having her learn something new or realize that she needs an adjustment to how she's raising her Pokemon.

This episode would have been a great opportunity for Iris to actually, like, learn something new for once. A one-second squash followed up with a genuine training routine that would have enabled Axew to learn its new move would have been a much better course to take, even though it really shouldn't have learned Giga Impact, as others here point out. It just doesn't make much sense to put a crazy-powerful move with major recoil on a little babby who logically wouldn't be able to make good use of it because it has babby stamina. I really do wonder why the writers flat-out refuse to let Axew learn Dual Chop and opt to give it old moves that we've seen before, rather than an actual Gen V move that is (mostly) unique to its evolutionary line.

tl;dr: Iris needs a real Break the Haughty scenario; I believe she needs it much more than Paul ever did. Even if her attitude in this episode didn't warrant that, it doesn't change how Iris has generally behaved for the majority of the series. I can only assume that, if they ever do give Iris this much-needed development, they're intentionally holding off for Drayden to do. But still, Iris lacks any real dramatic backstory with Drayden, so I don't see how this can only be done through him properly. It's times like this where the writing of the BW series becomes grating.

 

[WildGamer]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

So...any references to Paul or DP in this episode?

 

[Masurao]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

So...any references to Paul or DP in this episode?

I don't recall any mention of Paul, which is a damn shame considerin how much Cynthia shipped was invested in Ash/Paul. Biggest disappoitment this episode.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

Mijumaru's lusting always entertains me. Was Meloetta so attractive that Mijumaru forgot his crush on Emonga?

Mijumaru has a crush on all female pokemons. He is Takeshi in pokemon form.

 

[PTOldMan]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

The idea I got from this episode was that it was a kind of transition episode. Though it was the first episode of BW2, I think it will really start next week. I mean, wouldn't it be better for the writers to have had the "Next time... A New beginning!" at the end of this episode, rather than at the end of last episode? The only thing we had of BW2 in this episode, other that Meloetta, was Cynthia and a glimpse of Dawn. Only three Pokémon from the previous generations (other than Meowth and Pikachu) were shown, and I think that they want to use music from the past.

I believe next episode will truly be the beginning of Best Wishes 2.

 

[WildGamer]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

Shouldn't this whole sub forum be moved to the anime section now that BW2 has officially begun?

 

[Aestivate]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

Shouldn't this whole sub forum be moved to the anime section now that BW2 has officially begun?

We'll be merging this forum with the regular anime forum in early July.

 

[Iteru]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

The reason being that its still a current exciting event. B2W2 isn't being merged into VG right away, for example.

Also if you want to ask about forum structuring, its best to contact a mod for that. None of this is relevant to BW85 in the slightest.

 

[Hellion]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

The writers couldn't have made it more obvious that Shirona was going easy on Iris.

I totally agree.

I don't understand why some people wanted Shirona to curbstomp Iris. How in the world would that help Iris in any way?

Because of what actually came before this battle as far as Kibago was concerned, which is a big pile of nothing. Kibago has never been shown to be battle ready. Iris' goal is to not only make it battle ready but evolve it. She does nothing towards that goal... ever. At some point, you would expect that to bite her in the ass, to force her to reevaluate how she does things, but instead of being made to realize that she actually needs to do something with Kibago, she gets rewarded for doing nothing yet again and randomly powered up right before a huge tournament and a potential meeting with Shaga. There's no struggle, no flaw, nothing that she ever has to overcome. It fails to deliver has a storyline.

Oh, and Giga Impact.

Kibago sees a Giga Impact and later learns it? A load of crap DEM asspull!!!111!!1! Zuruggu sees HJK and later learns it. EVERYTHING'S ALL JELLY! Kibago learns Outrage giving him one stupid win (despite the fact the move ain't been seen in a long while) - Crap! Zuruggu learns Focus Blast out of nowhere and wins a battle - THAT'S PERFECTLY FINE because apparently, it can't aim very well despite the fact he KO'd one of Hachiku's Pokes with it.

You are comparing apples and oranges here. You're completely evacuating context and drawing loose parallels that don't actually reflect what took place in the show.

Kibago learned Imperial Wrath in the semifinals of a tournament at an extremely convenient time despite being shown to not be battle ready, to having done no progress, to not be deserving of the win, and at a time where Iris was completely overwhelmed by her opponents' strategies. The move completely destroyed her opponent. Zuruggu was taught Jumping Knee Kick by Zuruzukin in an inconsequential filler, didn't instantly get it, but practiced over the course of the episode and mastered it, for which he was rewarded by showing he was now battle ready by defeating a fully evolved Vulgina. That process made him battle ready. In Kibago's case, it learned the move as a substitute for development, to circumvent showing Iris actually struggle or work for her goal. In Zuruggu's case, he progressed, worked on the move, learned it, got stronger, then defeated an opponent.

The same thing applies with Fighting Spirit Bullet and Giga Impact. Zuruggu came into the battle against Yanakkie already battle ready, having already defeated a fully evolved pokémon. He was holding his own in the beginning of the battle against Yannakie, and Satoshi was shown to be able to counter some of his opponents' attacks because he knew that Zuruggu's skin shield was strong enough to withstand the attacks. When that went south, Satoshi called upon something which was thoroughly stated throughout the series to be Zuruggu's dominant trait: his fighting spirit. No matter how strong his opponent is, or how many there are, he always pushes himself to the limit, so it made total sense for him to learn the attack that focuses that fighting spirit into a bullet, especially having seen his evolved form use it beforehand. The move itself didn't win the battle, Zuruggu needed his other moves to finish off Yanakkie, he was further shown to not need it to defeat a Pokémon of that caliber in Hiyakkie and it actually cost him the match against Nageki. He was also shown to work on it afterwards because it wasn't totally mastered. Kibago, going into his match with Shirona, was never shown to be battle ready, his dominant trait of character was running around crying in fear when actually battling, he had very little training and no battle under his belt, nothing that really makes him deserving of learning a new move, just serving as a random powerup to once against circumvent Iris and Kibago actually training and struggling, achieving to cause more damage to Gablias than four of Shinji's Pokémon. The move is once again perfectly learned, no further work is actually needed, no nothing.

Two completely different sets of circumstances that explain the two completely different sets of reactions that both Pokémon got.

 

[Idon'tcare]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

Man, I don't even mind what happened in the battle. All I know is I found blushing Iris adorable (like I said)-

Spoiler

Mijumaru has a crush on all female pokemons. He is Takeshi in pokemon form.

Oh that I've been aware of for a while. I just found it funny that Mijumaru would start fighting with a Pokémon he had a crush on. And you know Takeshi will never start a fight if a pretty girl interrupts his lusting over another girl.

Takeshi, he would just hit on them both.

 

[Boson]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

Atleast writers didn't pull Glacia from nowhere, Shirona actually has it in Black and White 2 o.o

 

[Chiplet]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

Atleast writers didn't pull Glacia from nowhere, Shirona actually has it in Black and White 2 o.o

Thanks for spoiling.

Meh, I'm not too surprised about it. I was expecting Cynthia to receive some new Pokémon, but I was hoping for some Gen V 'mons.

 

[Sweet Veil]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

I go on too much for a debate to be effective, so I'll try to make this short and one-off.

Kibago learned Imperial Wrath in the semifinals of a tournament at an extremely convenient time despite being shown to not be battle ready, to having done no progress, to not be deserving of the win, and at a time where Iris was completely overwhelmed by her opponents' strategies. The move completely destroyed her opponent.

We aren't talking about Outrage, we're talking about Giga Impact. I completely disagree with the notion that Kibago had no progress or wasn't battle ready. A few episodes prior the guy went up against a Tsunbear, I'd say he was more than battle ready.

Zuruggu was taught Jumping Knee Kick by Zuruzukin in an inconsequential filler, didn't instantly get it, but practiced over the course of the episode and mastered it, for which he was rewarded by showing he was now battle ready by defeating a fully evolved Vulgina. That process made him battle ready.

You mean once in the episode right? Then ended up instantly getting it and one shotting a Vulgina? A fully evolved Flying-type at that?

In Kibago's case, it learned the move as a substitute for development, to circumvent showing Iris actually struggle or work for her goal. In Zuruggu's case, he progressed, worked on the move, learned it, got stronger, then defeated an opponent.

In reality he learned the most powerful Fighting Physical move with nearly no effort just the same as Kibago learning Outrage. But, the difference between these situations is Kibago hasn't used Outrage since. Reminds me of Zeustle's Rock Slide, Maggyo's Boiling Water, or Yanappu's Rock Tomb, specifically Yanappu and Iwaperesu's moves. With Dento's situation though I'm willing to admit, the moves were learned offscreen thus showing his awesomez skillZ as a Pokemon Sommelier.

No matter how strong his opponent is, or how many there are, he always pushes himself to the limit, so it made total sense for him to learn the attack that focuses that fighting spirit into a bullet, especially having seen his evolved form use it beforehand.

What Pokemon doesn't do that? Kibago was in a nasty pinch against Shirona, and thanks to a much-needed push from Iris and their relationship, he managed to push forward and learn a new move he saw Yanakkie and Haderia use before, and many other Pokemon I'm forgetting.

The move itself didn't win the battle, Zuruggu needed his other moves to finish off Yanakkie, he was further shown to not need it to defeat a Pokémon of that caliber in Hiyakkie and it actually cost him the match against Nageki.

Doesn't make it any less of an asspull, since Zuruggu would have been eliminated otherwise but managed to learn his SUPA AWEZOME strongest Special Fighting-type move despite going on to lose to Nageki later, well couldn't the same be said of Kibago and Giga Impact and going on to lose to Shirona fairly quickly afterwards, no?

If you were disappointed that Kibago learned Giga Impact, unbiasly, you would be equally disappointed if the same happened to Zuruggu, right?

The severity of flaws are subjective. Favorites are subjective. But canon is objective, and you can't argue against the concrete. We just synthesize it differently.

He was also shown to work on it afterwards because it wasn't totally mastered. Kibago, going into his match with Shirona, was never shown to be battle ready, his dominant trait of character was running around crying in fear when actually battling, he had very little training and no battle under his belt, nothing that really makes him deserving of learning a new move, just serving as a random powerup to once against circumvent Iris and Kibago actually training and struggling, achieving to cause more damage to Gablias than four of Shinji's Pokémon. The move is once again perfectly learned, no further work is actually needed, no nothing.

Kibago's moves did nothing. Kibago's "dominant trait" he's a caring Pokemon, he saw the current situation he was in and wanted to push forward and win. We even have a little heart-to-heart moment with him and Iris, something that Zuruggu and Satoshi didn't have. Remember when Kibago learned Outrage? Iris went batshit crazy when Kibago was about to get Gyro Ball'd, the heart-to-heart moment shows just how much a bond they have and how they've grown in maturity since then, since all Iris did was cry out his name in that battle and in this one we see them communicating with their eyes pretty much. Moments like how they both helped Monozu and slightly got over their fear of Ice-Types. It's almost as if Iris and Kibago's relationship developing is a bad thing, which is contradictory to her goal of trying to know her Dragon's heart better.

 

[Trainer Gabriel]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

Did I not catch something or did Axew use Giga Impact without Iris giving the command like the last time he magically learned a new move? Why does this happen? Why does Iris always have to give a surprised stare and forget to do her job? Better yet, instead of learning another powerful new move out of nowhere, why couldn't Axew simply just use Outrage again? I was waiting for that to happen, especially considering Axew has yet to even use that move a second time, but instead, we're treated to another dose of Axew learning new moves solely for the sake of convenience rather than through proper character growth. I'm seriously starting to wonder if the writers actually forgot that Axew even knows Outrage. Considering there seems to be no thought put into Iris' story, I really wouldn't be surprised.

Oh, BW2... one episode in and already I'm disappointed. Is there any hope for this series?

 

[Dogasu]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

I think a lot of you are forgetting that Shirona has never met Iris before this episode. She doesn't know about her win at the Don Battle tournament, she doesn't know about her pokemon learning moves at the most impossible / convenient times, and she doesn't know that she teases Satoshi for being a "kid." She doesn't see Iris as some arrogant Mary Sue who needs to be knocked down a peg; she sees her as a kid who idolizes her and wanted a battle.

So no, it wouldn't make sense for Shirona to completely crush Iris right away. I know a lot of you want Iris to have some humiliating defeat that makes her rethink the way she does things, but Shirona had no reason to be the one to do that.

 

[Hellion]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

I completely disagree with the notion that Kibago had no progress or wasn't battle ready. A few episodes prior the guy went up against a Tsunbear, I'd say he was more than battle ready.

He went up against a Tsunbear and wasn't able to do shit, not even to hold his own against it. The same with Gobitto where he was getting wrecked from the get go. Kibago was before this week never shown to actually be able to battle in actual trainer battles and all of a sudden, poof, it's suddenly hurting Shirona's Gablias with it's perfectly mastered Giga Impact. That just reeks of bad writing.

You mean once in the episode right? Then ended up instantly getting it and one shotting a Vulgina? A fully evolved Flying-type at that?

Zuruggu was on-screen showed to try several times under Zuruzukin's guidance and the whole plot was that it needed to keep Zuruzukin occupied with practice for Satoshi to get into position, indicating they spend some time working on it.

If you were disappointed that Kibago learned Giga Impact, unbiasly, you would be equally disappointed if the same happened to Zuruggu, right?

No, because the same thing did not happen. You're saying that if someone criticizes the way Kibago learns moves they have to criticize every Pokémon regardless of the different circumstances. You evacuate everything that is particular about a situation, distillate it to its simplest form and then try to hold the point I'm making against as though I had proclaimed a catch-all rule, when in my opinion, it has always been a case by case situation. The circumstances are different for each situation (What's been shown of both character and Pokémon, the way their story is structured, what they bring into the battle, and point is, it has to feel organic, it has to feel like the next logical step. For Zuruggu, it was that logical next step. For Kibago, it's always circumventing it. Two totally different sets of circumstances equate two totally different reactions.

I think a lot of you are forgetting that Shirona has never met Iris before this episode.

I agree with you on Shirona's view on Iris, but I don't think the two notions are mutually exclusive. Shirona could have let Kibago use Scratch and Dragon Rage and stop the battle there, question Iris about how she was training Kibago, how much she battled with it making Iris realize through helpful discussion that she's been overprotecting Kibago and that she needs to be more serious about training. Then Shirona and Gablias could have taught Iris and Kibago Giga Impact for them to master over the next few episodes before the Junior Cup.

The difference is, that scene, as is, serves no purpose as far as Iris goes but to power up Kibago despite having nothing to show it's deserving of it rather than have to work for it.

humiliating

As I said above, I don't think anyone expected Shirona to be a massive bitch to Iris and be like, "U suk noob", nor do I presonally want to see Iris be humiliate, but I'd actually like for her established flaws and limitations regarding her goal to actually be treated as such. The whole reason for her journey is that she, yes has to raise and evolve Kibago, but also to learn things. Every time she's put into a situation where she could be shown struggling or lacking in skill or knowledge, it never costs her anything nor does she learn anything from it cause apparantly, doing nothing with Kibago still means he gets to learn Giga Impact and totally master it in a blink like it's nothing with no effort.

It's Season 2, we're at episode 85 and there's still not a shred of justification as to why Iris is a main character or is partaking on this journey.

As far as the other plotlines, this episode did its job in setting them up. World Cup, Hikari, TR/Meloetta. Some seem more interesting than others, but that's pretty much what this episode was, not an episode in and out of itself, but just the foundation for future episodes, which in some cases (WTJC and Hikari), I'm looking forward to, while in others (Iris, TR and Meloetta), it just left me cold.

 

[Sweet Veil]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

He went up against a Tsunbear and wasn't able to do shit, not even to hold his own against it. The same with Gobitto where he was getting wrecked from the get go. Kibago was before this week never shown to actually be able to battle in actual trainer battles and all of a sudden, poof, it's suddenly hurting Shirona's Gablias with it's perfectly mastered Giga Impact. That just reeks of bad writing.

Zuruggu went up against a wild fully evolved Vulgina for the first time. He didn't win by actually strategy, hard training, or true battle skill. He won because Vulgina got stuck in the ground due to her getting herself stuck with her Pluck attack. Zuruggu went on to take out this fully evolved Flying-type with one Hi Jump Kick of course. About 40 episodes later, *POOF* Zuruggu is strong and skilled enough Pokemon to dodge against Yanakkie, damage it heavily, and endure a slew of attacks from the Grass Monkey Pokemon. That just reeks of bad writing.

Yeah, that established Langley and her role as a Dragon Buster and how powerful Tsunbear is. Kibago only could barely even out with Ice Beam for a little while, but had still tried to battle Tsunbear. No competence does not mean that Kibago was not battle ready, back in episode 9 where Kibago battled Yanappu I'm implied to believe this, but Kibago clearly is a Pokemon that is wired and has been ready for battle. That's why it's so daunting to me that Zuruggu is supposedly battle ready because he one-shotted a Vulgina by getting a lucky break, if the writing was realistic Vulgina would have taken out the Pants Lizard Pokemon the same way Kibago went down to those Ice moves. Kibago never hurt Shirona's Land Shark, she wasn't even bothered by Giga Impact.

Zuruggu was on-screen showed to try several times under Zuruzukin's guidance and the whole plot was that it needed to keep Zuruzukin occupied with practice for Satoshi to get into position, indicating they spend some time working on it.

So, one session and he ended up getting down the most powerful physical fighting move with ease. O.K.

No, because the same thing did not happen. You're saying that if someone criticizes the way Kibago learns moves they have to criticize every Pokémon regardless of the different circumstances.

Nah, but it's quite obvious Zuruggu and Kibago are paralleles with the whole reptilian, brother, young Pokemon deal behind their character. In reality, it's pretty much the same thing.

You evacuate everything that is particular about a situation, distillate it to its simplest form and then try to hold the point I'm making against as though I had proclaimed a catch-all rule, when in my opinion, it has always been a case by case situation. The circumstances are different for each situation (What's been shown of both character and Pokémon, the way their story is structured, what they bring into the battle, and point is, it has to feel organic, it has to feel like the next logical step. For Zuruggu, it was that logical next step. For Kibago, it's always circumventing it. Two totally different sets of circumstances equate two totally different reactions.

Oh, I'm not circumventing anything. I'm willing to admit that Kibago learning such a powerful move was defiantly an eyebrow raiser. But, the same goes for Zuruggu and his most powerful physical and special fighting moves, no? Basically, Zuruggu saw Zuruzukin use Focus Blast and then learned how to use it himself and it is because he learned Focus Blast that he was able to stop Yanakkie's Giga Impact and go on to the next round of the Donamite. Well, Kibago here saw Yanakkie and Haderia use the one as well as was attacked by a similar move from Gabias and had a heart-to-heart moment with Iris and learned it, but still was beaten pretty pathetically easy by a simple "Tag, you're it." move from Gabias. If Kibago had learned Giga Impact or hadn't learned Giga Impact, the results would have still been the same. So, I'm not understanding how the heck it's okay for Zuruggu but not Kibago, despite not being able to aim with Focus Blast he still managed to win against Hachiku's Baricchi with it. Difference? I don't see any.

 

[Hellion]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

Zuruggu went up against a wild fully evolved Vulgina for the first time.

After being taught a new move by Zuruzukin and having worked with him on perfecting it, i.e. strenghtening himself through work, yes he was ready to take on bigger foes. Organic next step. Once that's done, the next step is even stronger foe and getting new moves. Here, Kibago wasn't taught Giga Impact by anybody, didn't need to work to master it, there was nothing sustaining that move. Kibago hasn't progressed, gotten stronger or shown he could handle real battle. This very much felt like Iris was getting rewarded for sitting on her hands and doing nothing towards, which begs the bigger question. If a character is on a journey to learn new things and grow, but never shows any need to learn or grow, if she on a journey to train and evolve a Kibago and never does anything towards that yet stuff happens in spite of her, then what is she doing on the journey in the first place.

Zuruggu and Kibago are paralleles

This doesn't exclude the fact that there are differences in how their stories unfolded, in how the story of their trainer unfolded, in their past battles, in their personalities, etc. Those are a set a characteristics that makes both situations unique.

Once again, you're trying to make a rule out of things, that if you complain about one, you must complain about the other, but I don't see it that way. To me, it's about perception. With Zuruggu, it always felt like what happened was the logical next step. Could there have been more focus on that storyline, absolutely, but it still felt to me like a steady growth. With Kibago, it's not just that he was losing the battle and got out of it with a new move, it's that it really felt like he was not ready for the caliber of opponent in front of him.

beaten pretty pathetically

Actually, Kibago didn't so much lose as Shirona called off the attack and the match.

 

[Sweet Veil]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

After being taught a new move by Zuruzukin and having worked with him on perfecting it, i.e. strenghtening himself through work, yes he was ready to take on bigger foes. Organic next step. Once that's done, the next step is even stronger foe and getting new moves. Here, Kibago wasn't taught Giga Impact by anybody, didn't need to work to master it, there was nothing sustaining that move.

What about Focus Blast? Also you're forgetting Dragon Rage was an unruly move as well that Kibago mastered, or is that being ignored? Plus the writers aren't even acknowledging Outrage.

Kibago hasn't progressed, gotten stronger or shown he could handle real battle.

So. So. So. Untrue.

This very much felt like Iris was getting rewarded for sitting on her hands and doing nothing towards, which begs the bigger question. If a character is on a journey to learn new things and grow, but never shows any need to learn or grow, if she on a journey to train and evolve a Kibago and never does anything towards that yet stuff happens in spite of her, then what is she doing on the journey in the first place.

Let's completely ignore the whole Ice-type fear development, understanding Dragon's hearts deal, back story, as well as rivalry development, the training Kibago has had, as well as Doryuuzu's obedience story line, and I would agree with you. However the point is pretty moot. In this episode we have her taking initiative and challenging a Dragon type with her own for that very reason. There's never anything "new" being added to these discussion, as Dento would put it, making for a stale discussion.

This doesn't exclude the fact that there are differences in how their stories unfolded, in how the story of their trainer unfolded, in their past battles, in their personalities, etc. Those are a set a characteristics that makes both situations unique.

Yeah, I just wanna know what's so different about Focus Blast and Giga Impact's two situations where Zuruggu's is all hunky dory.

Once again, you're trying to make a rule out of things, that if you complain about one, you must complain about the other, but I don't see it that way. To me, it's about perception. With Zuruggu, it always felt like what happened was the logical next step. Could there have been more focus on that storyline, absolutely, but it still felt to me like a steady growth. With Kibago, it's not just that he was losing the battle and got out of it with a new move, it's that it really felt like he was not ready for the caliber of opponent in front of him.

Is that really the answer? "it felt like he was not ready" okay. I absolutely don't know how that even qualifies as criticism. Of course he wasn't ready to face off against the Champion of Sinnoh's most powerful Pokemon, does that mean he should rot in Iris's hair instead of training? Yeaaaah. You know who wasn't ready for battle? The Kibago in episode 9 that was being defeated by 10% power Bullet Seeds and had a faulty Dragon Rage, you can clearly see in the Monmen episode, Zuruggu's Gochimu episode, and Tsunbear episode Kibago is a Pokemon that's been ready for battle for the longest of time. If the argument is "he isn't ready for this opponent" that doesn't qualify either, because many Pokemon aren't ready for their opponents and still end up losing. It's natural.

Actually, Kibago didn't so much lose as Shirona called off the attack and the match.

Kibago was done for. Nothing was going to change that.

 

[HumanDawn]

re: BW 085 "Sing, Meloetta! The Melody of Love!!" Review Thread

I really like how thanks to Iris, Cynthia's character received some depth. Meoletta can sure stir up some bad romance .

He went up against a Tsunbear and wasn't able to do shit, not even to hold his own against it. The same with Gobitto where he was getting wrecked from the get go. Kibago was before this week never shown to actually be able to battle in actual trainer battles and all of a sudden, poof, it's suddenly hurting Shirona's Gablias with it's perfectly mastered Giga Impact. That just reeks of bad writing.

Oh well gee, maybe Kibago finally grew and gained strength from off-screen training? Just because he's still acts childish it doesn't mean that he hasn't become a competent battler. Pochama has shown to be way more childish than Kibago and yet he's a competent battler. You can't use examples to make Kibago look weak from over 40 episodes ago were in that time he obviously grew.

After being taught a new move by Zuruzukin and having worked with him on perfecting it, i.e. strenghtening himself through work, yes he was ready to take on bigger foes. Organic next step. Once that's done, the next step is even stronger foe and getting new moves. Here, Kibago wasn't taught Giga Impact by anybody, didn't need to work to master it, there was nothing sustaining that move. Kibago hasn't progressed, gotten stronger or shown he could handle real battle. This very much felt like Iris was getting rewarded for sitting on her hands and doing nothing towards, which begs the bigger question. If a character is on a journey to learn new things and grow, but never shows any need to learn or grow, if she on a journey to train and evolve a Kibago and never does anything towards that yet stuff happens in spite of her, then what is she doing on the journey in the first place.

Her journey, i.e story, is to meet dragons and help them so that she can get enough experience to become a fully fledged Dragon Master. Zuruggu learned Hi Jump Kick in a single episode after trying to use it the second time, while Kibago had to keep on training to master Dragon Rage in around 20 episodes. Zuruggu didn't have anytime for off-screen training in that episode. If a Pokemon is strong enough and loves their trainer, they'll do anything to win for them, which has lead to many Pokemon suddenly learning moves.

This doesn't exclude the fact that there are differences in how their stories unfolded, in how the story of their trainer unfolded, in their past battles, in their personalities, etc. Those are a set a characteristics that makes both situations unique.

Once again, you're trying to make a rule out of things, that if you complain about one, you must complain about the other, but I don't see it that way.

It's still the same scenario of a Pokemon mastering a move. If you complain about eating a rotten apple, you'll complain about eating a rotten orange. If you complain about a broken window, you'll complain about a broken chair. If you complain about a Pokemon learning a new move out of nowhere, you'll complain about a different Pokemon learning a new move out of nowhere. Also, Kibago's Giga Impact made Garch slip, while Zuruggu's Hi Jump Kick knocked out Vulgina.

Actually, Kibago didn't so much lose as Shirona called off the attack and the match.

Shirona clearly found little point in defeating Kibago when she pretty much already won. It was a training match anyways. She even let him continuously scratch her Garch.