Review BW087: Survival on the Island of Iwark!

[Duque]

God, when the day comes to Ash have a good reason to call Iris "kodomo ne", I'll feel like a divine justice is being done (it won't happen, though).

 

[Bouffalant Herdier]

If this is an indication of what's to come from Dawn during her return, the next plane to Hoenn can't arrive soon enough. I hadn't been looking particularly forward to this episode, but whilst I was kinda expecting Iris to drag Dawn down, I didn't think Dawn would pull Iris and herself down even further. I hate how Iris is suddenly BFFs Forever with someone she barely knows, and their combined callousness towards Ash left me feeling completely cold; I thought friendship was supposed to be a strong theme in this show?

Add in the boring and overused threat of Onix, and more pointless glorification of Iris' nothing-to-do-with-Pokemon athletic prowess, this has to be one of my least favourite episodes ever. The highlights were definitely the Brock mention, (Did not see that coming!) Oshawott and Piplup's clashing (I can see it getting old quickly, though) and surfing Pikachu, but why didn't he use his new move against the Onix?

 

[Side by Side]

Am I the only person who thinks the friendship between Dawn & Iris seems forced… hear me out here please. It seems the writers feel it is vital to have Dawn & Iris as friends, I assume this is to boost Iris’s popularity within the global Pokémon fan base.

I would also imagine it is seen as racial equality being held high is important in Japan more than ever now, ouch yes he brought it up didn’t he? How could he, firstly I must state I love everyone regardless of what colour their skin is…

But can you see my point? I think they are trying to teach children a lesson in having Dawn friends with Iris. There is nothing people can be united over more than gender & ageist discrimination is there? Which seems like what this line was, I honestly find it hilarious how people are making allot of it.

As I see it in the anime the truth is that Iris & Dawn are not really friends of Ash, only truly Brock & Misty are his friends, Max, May, Tracey, Iris, Cilan & Dawn don’t care about him & just rather so hang around with him for personal gains.

This makes off hand comments not surprising. I'd love the plot twist to occur of Ash ditching Iris & Cilan in the future in favour of travelling alone, now that would be something to watch. But then again I think we all dream in solo Ash adventures.

I look forward to hearing *you* the reader try to take apart what I have just written, thanks for your time & attention.

And I don't get why people are so upset about Iris' Kodomo ne.
It is not like she is lying when she calls Satoshi a kid.

If BW!Satoshi was half DP!Satoshi was, it would make no sense to call him a kid... but...

No one is upset we are merely discussing it, shock horror talking about Pokémon on a Pokémon forum! Better call the admins! :-O

I do find Dawn’s words interesting I’ll admit this; if it wasn’t for Ash she would be dead now. When she fell in The Rise of Darkrai Ash caught her, so the person who stopped you from dying is a kid?

Yes you aren't smart Dawn. What I would love to happen now is for Ash to have a moment where he has the chance to save both Iris & Dawn & decides not to, letting them die ha-ha talk about upping the age rating to 18 plus in seconds eh?

 

[Dr. Buni]

I don't get why people are complaining about Iris and Hikari interactions.
It was pretty fun to watch and even with the overused Iwark, it was one of the best "Best Wishes" episodes.

The interactions between the quartet makes me wishes that Hikari stayed as a third traveling companion to Satoshi.
It would be very nice.

God, when the day comes to Ash have a good reason to call Iris "kodomo ne", I'll feel like a divine justice is being done (it won't happen, though).

And I don't get why people are so upset about Iris' Kodomo ne.
It is not like she is lying when she calls Satoshi a kid.

If BW!Satoshi was half DP!Satoshi was, it would make no sense to call him a kid... but...

 

[Amichann]

I actually really liked this episode! I love the friendship between Dawn and Iris. You have to admit, it's nice to have the only girl in the group finally have someone they can talk to and relate to. I do also think that they just added this episode in just like a filler. Since the movie is coming out in Japan next week, they probably wrote this episode so they wouldn't have to stop in the middle of the Junior Cup.

I was looking through the comments and I saw people talking about the moves. The subs were wrong for Mijumaru learning Hydro Pump. It said Hydro Cannon, but I know that's wrong. And for Pochama, that move was a form of Bubble Beam. If Pochama learned a new move, you'd think that Dawn would be happy and say something like, "Oh you learned this move! Blah blah blah..."
I also really love the whole love rivalry between Pochama and Mijumaru. I think it's really, really cute!

 

[Trainer Gabriel]

Oh, jeez, don't tell me Dawn has officially become Iris Version 2.0... But I won't lie; I though that was at least a little entertaining. It was nice to see a reaction from Ash this time (I think that's happened only one other time early in BW), and seeing Dawn and Iris both messing up on trying to find their way around.

I think I would've preferred to see something other than a rampaging group of Onix, but... eh, whatever. It just feels nice to see previous generation Pokemon again.

Overall, I did quite enjoy this episode, despite Dawn deciding to use Iris' catchphrase, for reasons already stated.

 

[ivantuga2]

I'll be honest, I kind of died a little in the inside when I heard Hikari picking up Iris' catchphrase in agreement, and against Satoshi, no less. It was already grating when Iris alone was calling Satoshi "kodomo ne", but at least I thought this was just her trademark hypocritical remark. But when I watched the episode live and heard Hikari agreeing enthusiastically that he's "such a kid", and twice... I felt she disrespected him and told it more because of the unwritten rule that main girls have to be best buds with each other, even if it means going as down as to call a far more experienced boy "a kid". I just felt this wasn't the same Hikari that Satoshi had a great friendship with in DP, and who had arguably the best Satoshi/<insert main girl here> relationship of the whole show.

YES, I know that Hikari likes to annoy Satoshi sometimes, but this time I honestly felt it was over the top. I don't want Hikari to keep calling Satoshi that name because she met a girl who just happens to be a BIG hypocrite (which she likely doesn't know). What's worse is that Satoshi and Hikari barely interacted with each other in the episode, making this name calling feel more serious than it was "supposed to be".

I do admit, I liked some of the interactions Iris and Hikari had (even with the forced BFF stuff), like both wanting to go on opposite directions when they faced a cave, and how

In a fitting moment of irony a few minutes later, Iris grabbed that Magnemite and got zapped, while Dawn grabbed that Foongus and got gassed. What a couple of kids!

... which, together, was better than the Kasumi/Haruka and Haruka/Hikari relationships, where I don't remember a SINGLE moment of amusing moments and/or conflict.

I'll just pretend this moment never happened and hope this won't repeat, at least not with Satoshi! I also have hope knowing how cute the meeting scene between Hikari and Satoshi was in the previous episode, and acknowledging the fact that the plot of this episode revolved around the group being separated into multiple sub-groups, which was the main reason Hikari and Iris bonded with each other, in detriment of Satoshi, who actually interacted far more with Dent.

And I don't get why people are so upset about Iris' Kodomo ne.
It is not like she is lying when she calls Satoshi a kid.

If BW!Satoshi was half DP!Satoshi was, it would make no sense to call him a kid... but...

If Satoshi is a kid (which as an age he IS) with all the achievements and experience he has had over the years, then at least SOMEONE should let Iris know that she's a toddler in comparison.

I look forward to hearing *you* the reader try to take apart what I have just written, thanks for your time & attention.

Simple. Just watch the DP series and see the developing friendship between Satoshi and Hikari, the multiple times they practiced together, how she often screamed for him when in danger or when trying to find Satoshi, etc. It simply was in a different way than say, Kasumi, who even started in a hostile way, but eventually respected him more and more, until they truly became friends. Also, the reason for Hikari and Iris telling that Satoshi is a kid is more

because of the unwritten rule that main girls have to be best buds with each other, even if it means going as down as to call a far more experienced boy "a kid".

If you watch Kasumi's interactions with Satoshi in the AG series, you wouldn't say that her teasing him some times was a sign of not liking him, would you? It's the same with Hikari when she teased him. Just that this time it left me cold for reasons that have nothing to do with the character itself.

I also disagree with you about Masato, Haruka, Kenji, and Dent not being his friends (I could explain why, but this isn't really the thread for that). The one person out of those you listed who I really think doesn't respect Satoshi much is Iris.

 

[p96822]

Don't be to shooked about Ash being called a kid in BW because he acted like this in the first few seasons. In Johto I say he grew as a person. In Hoenn and Sinnoh he seem to be a better trainer

 

[Side by Side]

ivantuga2 You have raised some great points; ok I don’t feel that Ash isn’t at all friends with the people I mentioned. I would suggest they are more so merely acquaintances of Ash. I somewhat misspoke as such, what I’m trying to say is that they aren’t as good friends as the bonds he holds with Brock & Misty.

I do remember Dawn’s interactions with both Ash & Brock in Sinnoh, I also treasure them, I believe they made interesting anime; the same has been true for pretty much everyone I have listed at times. What this is all about is appeasing the audience I believe, some people like to see Ash abused somewhat, this is what frustrates me, not Ash being abused but, I’ll elaborate…

Iris & Dawn’s teasing of Ash seems forced, it seems like it is only there for the sake of being there, the writers felt the need to change Dawn when she came back I think. Getting back on topic I feel they want Dawn to seem tougher, leaner & somewhat meaner. I’ve looked at peoples comments, I think maybe quite a few people believe somewhat that Dawn has no backbone. What the writers have done in having her agree with Iris & be cruel to Ash is possibly hope to change this view.

This behaviour is fine, it is realistic people will make callous comments to one another sometimes; the issue I take with it is that it doesn’t seem realistic; I’m echoing your point. It is silly for Dawn to come back to see Ash so changed to how she was.

Ultimately it is what leads me to my misjudgement in my last post.

Edit to reply: I’ve read your reply to me ivantuga2 & I must say I’m presently surprised at the levels of intelligence, your postings show.

It has been a pleasure talking to you about this, which isn’t something I can say, has occurred many times before on Pokémon forums in my time using them. You make great points & have changed my view somewhat with them, so well done. I guess Dawn is a true friend of Ash, I still personally believe she isn’t quite as strong a friend as Ash is with the original trio, merely because she isn’t part of the original group of friends.

That is just a frustrating crux I'm trapped in as a fan of Pokémon since its origin I guess.

Thank you ivantuga2 for rewarding my faith in Bulbagarden.net you talked to me properly, sharing your opinion with me & accepting mine... not needing to go into anything else, keep it up dude you are doing great. The reason I come here is to read what you guys think I love hearing them all so keep it up all of you please.

More!

You guys are making way too big a deal of Dawn teasing Ash. It was meant for humor and nothing more. Seriously Dawn still knows Ash is a good trainer.

Also lol @ saying only Misty/Brock are Ash's real friends. Take off the nostalgia glasses.

Ha-ha that is ironic coming from you Scott, as usual you make me smile with your musings keep it up my lad.

Needless to say I think we have a good thread going here. ^_^

 

[Cybersai]

You guys are making way too big a deal of Dawn teasing Ash. It was meant for humor and nothing more. Seriously Dawn still knows Ash is a good trainer.

Also lol @ saying only Misty/Brock are Ash's real friends. Take off the nostalgia glasses.

 

[Chiplet]

OH. EM. GEE.

Seriously, I can do nothing but to laugh. You're acting like this ''kodomo ne''-phrase is completely killing the characters and their friendship, you're exaggerating a whole lot. That phrase is nothing but a childish remark from a childish character, and it's only their for the purpose of humor, and I really can't see how that phrase is destroying their friendship.
''Kodomo ne'' is nothing but a childish remark from a character who already has childish traits, it's not based on anything of Ash's previous achievements or anything, it's just a way of teasing around with a friend.

Iris is just as much as child as Ash is, and that's something that should be rather obvious to all of us viewers, making Iris' use of the phrase ironic, and clearly displaying that she's a kid too. I mean, we could clearly see in BW62 that Iris called Ash a kid for not knowing what the Chargestone Cave was, only for Ash to get a bit annoyed by it and then asked Iris if she really knew what it was. During that moment, Iris said something in the style with ''Me? Not a clue'', and the expression on her face clearly indicated to her not being bothered at all for not having knowledge about. If she'd find it to be disturbing and felt slightly ashamed for not knowing she had blushed or something, because she had just called the one who didn't know anything about it a kid, when she herself didn't know it either, but she didn't blush and neither did she seem to be bothered by it. So, in other words, it's just a way of teasing, as it really isn't a meaning in it, and just a way to tease the other and not really based on anything.
Trust me on saying this, but Ash could become World Champion, being absolute strongest trainer in the whole wide world, and he would still hear Iris, a close friend of his, calling him a little kid.

Let me just take out a quote from @Tsutarja, who made his own review on the episode in a blog post (which you totally should go an check out). He knows, just like I, that Iris' way of saying kodomo ne is just a way of teasing a friend. Seriously, have you guys never experienced that with your friends? Oh well, here we go.

Also, this comment is directed to all the folks who believe Iris disrespects Ash. As we have seen in this episode, the term 'kodomo ne' was mostly used for teasing Ash. Despite the fact Dawn knew of Ash's great Sinnoh accomplishment, she still teased him and called him a kid. Teasing, yes, that's what friends do. So before you call out Iris on that, remember that Dawn, a girl who witnessed Ash taking down a Latios and a Darkrai, also called him a kid.

So yeah, 'kodomo nee' is really nothing bad.

Besides, seeing Iris and Dawn act like children themselves makes it that much funnier.

I couldn't agree more, as what he's saying is the impression I've got to. I found Ash and Iris to be just as good friends as anyone, her teasing attitude doesn't really make their friendship having a lower value or anything. They're just as much as friends as Dawn and Ash are, whether you like it or not. I mean, I've got a whole bunch of amazingly close friends, who all have different personalities and goals in life, and we always are teasing each other with words that are way more worse than Iris' famous remark. We respect each other fully, and we know perfectly well where the limit is.

Iris' ''kodomo ne'' really never seems to hurt Ash, does it? In fact, he's not reacting to it that much nowadays. Although sometimes he gets annoyed by it, he's still not liking Iris less for that. He is always supported her fully during her battles, like that one with Kenyan, where both both Kenyan and Ash were determined to meet each other in the final. Ash pretty much ignored all of that and rooted all the way for Iris instead, didn't he? Not to mention that he also protected Iris when Langley insulted her for using Scratch on Golett.
He cares for her, and he trusts her fully, just like he does with all of his friends.

As for Iris... did you guys see Ash's last gym battle? In that case, you should've seen how Iris rooted for him like crazy.

Now, some were saying that they felt that Iris was... out of character, with her suddenly cheering Ash on instead of calling him a kid, she made them feel ''confused''. I don't really see how. Believe it or not, but Iris has always cared for Ash, and she has always been rooting for him in his battles, even though she hasn't been showing it. At the beginning of his badge quest she was indeed constantly calling him kodomo ne lots of time throughout their journey, but that was simply because of her not thinking that he actually would make it all the way. Like, when he received his first badge, she made it quite clear that it was nothing to proud about, since he still had a very long way to go, but as he was gaining more and more badges she slowly started to realize that he actually could talk the talk, and still walk the walk. She was starting to believe in his decisions and actions more, and stopped judging him for his ''stupid'' type choices in battles which gave him a huge disadvantage. And now, when he finally had reached the 8th and final gym, she realized how extremely close he actually was to reaching his goal, so the only thing she knew she had to do was to cheer him on all the way, to give him that extra boost to help him actually make it all the way through.

That's taken from my review on the last couple of episodes of BW1, and if you watched that episode you would've seen how both Iris and Dento went all out, cheering Ash on in a way like none of his traveling companions have ever done before, y'know why? Simple. Because they truly cared for their friend. Teasing and joking around is typical behavior among close friends, and even though it may seem to be rather harsh to treat each other that way, they'll always support and help you whenever you're in a pinch, just like Iris did in that episode.

I didn't think it was OOC at all for Dawn to join Iris in calling Ash a kid, as it really didn't mean anything, and as she only teased him. So, I must say that you Dawn fans are really exaggerating in this matter.

I found the Iris/Dawn-antics to be absolutely hilarious. For like the first time ever I actually appreciated Dawn being in the show. I never really liked her role in DP, and I've always considered her to be the worst female companion yet, but seeing her together with Iris I must admit that she become absolutely hilarious. The fact that they are completely opposites is making it more fun, as I'd much prefer seeing two characters that are complete opposites of each other to interact rather than seeing two ''soul mates'' do. Dawn was great in this episode, and so was Iris. I'd definitely ship them any day. As the matter of fact, I'd love it if the two of them formed their own traveling group.

Definitely the best girl-bonding yet.

 

[ivantuga2]

[I don’t feel that Ash isn’t at all friends with the people I mentioned. I would suggest they are more so merely acquaintances of Ash. I somewhat misspoke as such, what I’m trying to say is that they aren’t as good friends as the bonds he holds with Brock & Misty.

I don't think Hikari and others were a mere "acquaintance" with Satoshi. About the only thing that makes them feel "less attached" to him than Takeshi and Kasumi is that these two were the first to interact with Satoshi on a regular basis and the others followed later. Just to highlight some of the moments between Hikari and Satoshi in DP, off the top of my head:
- In DP046, while in the maze, she was concerned looking for Satoshi (and Takeshi), when she wanted to get herself a new application for her Pokétch as soon as possible.
- In DP133, she made a whole performance with her Pokémon just to cheer up Satoshi after he lost crushingly to Shinji.
- She wore a cheerleader outfit in 3 of Satoshi's Gym matches (1st, 3rd and 8th) when noone asked her to.
- After the Grand Festival, she sticked with Satoshi for the League to support him there, even though she didn't have much more to do.
- Their constant high fives.

I'm sure there are a few more. This isn't meant to support PearlShipping, merely to disprove the notion that Hikari "isn't good friends with Satoshi". I would even argue that considering how Hikari isn't supposed to be so emotionally attached to Satoshi compared to Kasumi and Takeshi, who started following him around at the beginning of his journey, it's all the more surprising how well Satoshi and Hikari bounced off each other in DP, which in turn makes me think that they were better friends than those first two. But then, maybe it's just me.

Iris & Dawn’s teasing of Ash seems forced, it seems like it is only there for the sake of being there, the writers felt the need to change Dawn when she came back I think. Getting back on topic I feel they want Dawn to seem tougher, leaner & somewhat meaner. I’ve looked at peoples comments, I think maybe quite a few people believe somewhat that Dawn has no backbone. What the writers have done in having her agree with Iris & be cruel to Ash is possibly hope to change this view.

This behavior is fine, it is realistic people will make callous comments to one another sometimes; the issue I take with it is that it doesn’t seem realistic; I’m echoing your point. It is silly for Dawn to come back to see Ash so changed to how she was.

Ultimately it is what leads me to my misjudgement in my last post.

See, I disagree here a bit with your reasoning. Hikari was already shown to be stronger in her first full episode in BW, when she successfully countered Dent's attacks. The reason she's "best buds" with Iris is solely because that's how the writers have chosen the main girls to interact with when they meet each other. I also feel it's forced, but not because the writers wanted to make Hikari "seem tougher, leaner & somewhat meaner". She was already shown like that sometimes in DP, just that this time she had to follow this dreadful pattern, which I frankly don't like (even though I already like Iris/Hikari's interactions more than Kasumi/Haruka and Haruka/Hikari's). This isn't because Hikari respects Satoshi less than Kasumi and Takeshi, but because of the way the main girls' interactions have been established, which ultimately is the core reason I'm so ticked off at this.

 

[Aestivate]

Hi, just as a reminder, people can have differing opinions as to how they feel about character interactions. Acting condescending in the face of someone else's opinion, however, is not only rude and unnecessary but disallowed. Laughing at people because they have a different opinion than you is simply petty, no ways about it.

 

[Hellion]

I actually liked this episode. I think the interactions where just really entertaining and comedic. Just like with Bel in Season 1, Hikari's presence just adds a lot to the chemistry and makes up for the weaknesses it can have when it's just Dent, Satoshi and Iris. I also liked the double kodomo ne in this episode, because for once, it actually worked. One of the things that doesn't work with it in all the other episodes is pretty much the fact that there was no reaction whatsoever from the others and Iris felt like she was just complaining to herself rather than teasing Satoshi as a friend. Here, it really worked, because Satoshi reacted when Hikari said it, like... it seemed to puzzle him why she would do it and it was all fun as you never once felt that Hikari didn't care about Satoshi. The Iris/Hikari dynamic was fun and not totally bff like, but still friendly, really established both as individual characters. The same goes for the Pochama/Mijumaru scenes. Pochama has teeth. XD

The whole Iwark plot was really just a pretext for interactions and comedy between the main characters, and while it definitely was the low point of the episode, meh, didn't really care, it was still enjoyable.

 

[CrackFox]

Loved this episode. Iris and Hikari were brilliant together. I like the less serious side we're finally seeing in Hikari, the fact that she actually wanted to ditch training and have some fun, and pulled her head out of Satoshi's backside has completely turned her character into a much more comical, cute and interesting one. Still deeply annoyed by Pochama's presence, but he's not hogging too much screen time, and when he does, it's featuring Mijumaru. The whole Onix thing was a bore but It made for a convenient excuse for Iris and Hikari to get separated from the group. They seem to be bonding and becoming kind of a double act. I hope it continues. The vine swinging was amusing and it's nice that Iris is having an impression on Hikari and that she seems to look up to her, instead of down on her. The best thing about this whole episode was the Takeshi mention. It's nice that Hikari brought it up, because we all know by now that Ash was never gonna.

Positives: Funny Iris and Hikari moments (how long before those two become a popular ship?)
Mijumaru learning a new move!
Takeshi gets a mention
Nice to see some previous gen, Pokemon
Satoshi didn't dex any of the Pokemon he's seen before, like he usually does
Double kodomo ne
Melotta and that ridiculous song

Negatives: TR being as pointless and annoying as ever

 

[Owain]

I loved this episode, their training at the beginning, Ash manually using his Déx to show Iris a pokémon she doesn't know, Dawn in general, has done wonders for the trio's dynamics, they weren't bad before, but they got better with her around, especially her and Iris, Meloetta picking up Axew was the cutest scene I saw in this animé, Oshawott and Piplup being chased away by the Krabby was pretty interesting, seeing old pokémon back in the new style is very nice too.

Surfing Pikachu! But the yes count exploded when Brock was mentioned hehe. Double.Kodomo.Ne, my body was not ready, also, Dawn basically going, ''Whatever, let's run away'' was actually funny, Ash commanding Piplup really shows his affinity with Dawn's mons, but, forgetting that, MAGICAL GIRL TRANSFORMATION! Lol, Meloetta sings Relic Song and then goes apeshit on the Onix, that was worth seeing.

Dawn and Iris's interaction made this episode, they should get their own spin-off, also, Pikachu testing things with his tail, been a while since we saw that, Kamehameha-style Hydro Pump? AWESOME! And them looking at eachother, undoubtely saying ''Not bad'', was a very good scene too, YAY Shiny Onix! Pretty cool end for a cool episode

 

[TemariChann]

I really loved this episode too! And hearing Hikari and Iris tease Satoshi, I thought that was really funny XD;;

And hearing Dawn's old catchphrase when they got lost together really made me think of DP. She always said, "No need to worry!" I love DP so much, and I really hope Dawn puts on a full contest performance sometime C:

 

[Hellwarden]

Any news how this episode did, ratings wise?

Nevermind, got a 6.0.

 

[Ishida]

That scene with Axew playing in the water after Piplup and Oshawott got pushed away by the waves was probably one of the cutest scenes I've seen in the anime for a while

 

[C-3]

Can anyone tell me what Team Rocket said at the end of the episode