Preview BW091: Power Battle! Iris vs. Hikari!

[Mikuri]

Welcome to a shonen anime!

I appreciate the welcoming! =D
Although I have not understood it very well, as I watch this show for years and have seen several tournaments with battles different from each other and less predictable results.

 

[p96822]

Ash's Krokrock is in this episode

 

[Eitarou]

Mamoswine is confirmed to be using Ice Fang.

Here's the preview from Smash.

 

[HumanDawn]

Welcome to a shonen anime!

I appreciate the welcoming! =D
Although I have not understood it very well, as I watch this show for years and have seen several tournaments with battles different from each other and less predictable results.

Yeah, I already feel like I know how the match with Trip and Cilan will go. Cilan will tell Crustle to do the usual Shell Smash+X-Scissor combo and Trip will overcome it by using Serperior's speed(assuming that the match is going to be in this episode).

 

[TeddiUrsa]

Mamoswine is confirmed to be using Ice Fang.

Here's the preview from Smash.

Damn, the maincharacters tried to evade dangerous attacks all the time in this anime...dodges this, dodge that, jump out of the way and so on...
But in the end it is so EASY. Just stand there, spread your arms and scream. That's how you overcome anything.

 

[HumanDawn]

Mamoswine is confirmed to be using Ice Fang.

Here's the preview from Smash.

Damn, the maincharacters tried to evade dangerous attacks all the time in this anime...dodges this, dodge that, jump out of the way and so on...
But in the end it is so EASY. Just stand there, spread your arms and scream. That's how you overcome anything.

Or maybe Dragonite has something called Multiscale.

 

[Hellwarden]

Boy, Georgia sure really loves to troll Burgundy.

 

[Ampharos King]

So once again Iris starts off the battle by wanting Dragonite to dodge its opponent's attacks, only for Dragonite to disobey her and voluntarily allows it to get attacked directly because it doesn't want to retreat. It's also nice to know that despite having a type disadvantage to Ice-type attacks, Dragonite doesn't take any real damage from them and continues to fight back as if it had not started to battle yet. At least Dawn and Mamoswine are given some fighting chance here.

 

[TeddiUrsa]

Mamoswine is confirmed to be using Ice Fang.

Here's the preview from Smash.

Damn, the maincharacters tried to evade dangerous attacks all the time in this anime...dodges this, dodge that, jump out of the way and so on...
But in the end it is so EASY. Just stand there, spread your arms and scream. That's how you overcome anything.

Or maybe Dragonite has something called Multiscale.

Oh, I've never heard of this ability. Too bad an already very strong legendary and Dragonite are the only Pokémon with this very interesting ability...but that's for another topic.
If it really is Multiscale it is no wonder that Dragonite is so strong, it is literally a dream come true.

The breaks really hurt the flow of the tournament but what can you do? Manmoo looks pretty awesome with its ice fangs, that's for sure. ^^

 

[Chiplet]

Mamoswine is confirmed to be using Ice Fang.

Here's the preview from Smash.

Fu, the clip has been removed :/

So, Dragonite might actually have Multiscale after all? That'd be so cool if it had, although I feel really, really bad for all of its opponents... I mean, the way the writers made Sturdy work in the anime (Dwebble Vs Dewott, Dwebble practically got no damage at all even though it was hit by lots of attacks) I really don't want to think about how Multiscale would work, Dragonite will be unbeatable.

So, it really is Ice Fang? I must say that it had a really nice animation, it suits Mamoswine perfectly.

 

[Eitarou]

Mamoswine is confirmed to be using Ice Fang.

Here's the preview from Smash.

Fu, the clip has been removed :/

So, Dragonite might actually have Multiscale after all? That'd be so cool if it had, although I feel really, really bad for all of its opponents... I mean, the way the writers made Sturdy work in the anime (Dwebble Vs Dewott, Dwebble practically got no damage at all even though it was hit by lots of attacks) I really don't want to think about how Multiscale would work, Dragonite will be unbeatable.

So, it really is Ice Fang? I must say that it had a really nice animation, it suits Mamoswine perfectly.

I'm just glad it's not some stupid laser move like in DP.

I'm also glad it's not a Contest move created by the stupid move-swallowing thing that Ash found out about.

 

[Chiplet]

Development is change. There's no change in Iris' character and Kairyu's disobedience didn't even seem to really make her mad, sad, doubtful, affect her in any way. She's not the problem, there's nothing that she has to change, to learn, to grow from to solve this, this is just about Kairyu realizing he's nothing without Iris. Again, it's an artificial and extremely contrived way to try to instill tension in the characters, as it doesn't really make sense, but once again fails because there's no follow-through in terms of execution, no real consequences, no real effect. It's hollow and doesn't really need anywhere. There's much more potential for development in a loss because it confronts the character as a trainer, establishes something they lack, something they can improve. It can make them progress.

What are you saying? ''Kairyu's disobedience didn't even seem to really make her mad, sad, doubtful, affect her in any way.''? What?
Didn’t you notice how frustrated Iris was during their battle? Well, I did, for sure. She was lots of time displaying both frustration and concern for Dragonite due it seemingly being in a huge disadvantage and for not obeying her commands. Iris was negatively affected during the battle, and even though that jump for happiness in the end felt very out of place, she was still obviously upset about Dragonite’s disobeying problems. If she wasn’t, she wouldn’t have scolded it in the end, would she?

Frustration wasn’t even the only kind of emotion Iris felt during the battle, she was also very concerned. Once Dragonite was frozen solid, I believe that its health condition took priority to its disobedience. After all, your Pokémon’s health is way more important than it disobeying you or not, right? But to have Iris showing concern for her Pokémon isn’t anything new, now is it? It’s not like this is the first time she reacted in that frustrated and concern way, and Axew’s battle against Golett was perfect proof of that.

Also, I don’t agree with you when you say that she has nothing to learn. She must learn to tame her Pokémon, right? I doubt she’ll get through to Dragonite by just mere words, as the relationship between her and Excadrill was completely different to the one she has with Dragonite. And even though I much prefer it for a character to truly connect to a Pokémon’s hearth by simply speaking with it than having to ‘’prove yourself’’, I still believe that during their battle Iris will somehow get through to him. I can’t tell how yet, but we’ll see.

Losing is definitely not the only option for character development, and I really would not want to see it happening again since I personally felt like it was handled in a rather uninteresting and simply boring way previously. There can be just as much potential in having a character win and to go on a winning-streak instead, and for what reasons? Well, I’m not saying that this will happen in Iris’ case, because it probably won’t, but going on a winning-streak with a disobedient Pokémon can also put a character on the crossroad of choosing between right or wrong, forcing her to see her own victory in battle from another person’s perspective, instead of just feeling sorry for yourself.
And for the rest of it, I can’t answer as of yet, which you really can’t either, as we haven’t seen the episode yet. I’ll have to see the episode were the two of them solves their relation issues, to find out if there was something

No, first of all, Hikari might not train specifically to defeat dragons, but she fought against dragons several times, defeating Gabite twice. She's trained extensively in battles alongside Satoshi, she's fought in many regular battles against other trainers, both in tag battles with Satoshi or Kohei, learning from them. A lot of Satoshi's techniques in DP were adapted from her contests showing her style can translate well into battles. So no, I don't think it's undeserved to see her do well in a battling tournament with Pokémon she's trained and really turned into powerful Pokémon. Hikari isn't being made to look good in this episode, if anything the preview imply that she's underperforming a lot, not really using her style, her usual strategies that were very effective in the past, really being downgraded to make Iris' comeback look more believable, cause it doesn't look like Iris is going to outstrategize Hikari, but rather just do her usual routine of spouting out attacks, have her Pokémon be able to withstand a thousand hits without being affected and win with one or two attacks because her pokémon have so much more raw power than everyone else's. Point is, they downgraded both Langley and Hikari here to give Iris some undeserved achievement in making it to the semis to give Iris results while once against bypassing the process.

Oh? Several times? Oh, I guess that by that, you mean twice. Yes. Dawn has fought Dragon-types twice, not to mention that both times it was the same Pokémon. Alright then. Well, if I recall correctly, Ash has fought two Rock-type gyms before he fought Roark, did that stop him from losing his first battle against him? Pikachu was even the star in both of those previous gyms, and he was used in the battle against Roark. Damn, he even fought the same species of Pokémon, Onix and Geodude, with only Cranidos being new. How does that change anything?

Georgia was training to specifically to defeat Dragon-types, thus naturally she studied up on them, knowing what kind of abilities and attacks that was common among them in general, having general knowledge about them, so to speak. Dawn, she just fought Ursula’s Gabite twice, and do you honestly think that just because she fought Gabite twice she know has some experience with Dragon-types? No. She hasn’t. You’d think that Ash would be able to face every type of Pokémon without problem if we were to follow that belief.

It’s true that Dawn has participated in many battles during her journey, and it’s true that she has snapped up quite a lot of things from Ash during their journey, while he also snapped up a thing or two from her. She is definitely a formidable Trainer, but so is Georgia. Every Pokémon Dawn faces are all the same – it’s an opponent. While, in Georgia’s case, every Pokémon really aren’t the same. Georgia doesn’t really care that much if it’s a win or lose if it’s in a battle against any other typing, she’s just not interested in those kinds of battles. However, if it’s against a Dragon-type, Georgia hates losing. She doesn’t treat every Pokémon she faces the same way like Dawn does. It’s only Dragon-types that interest her, and it’s only Dragon-types that she wants to defeat. She has, without doubt, lots of knowledge about them which is required in order for her to have a chance in beating them, while Dawn doesn’t have that kind of knowledge, because it’s just an opponent like every other Pokémon to her. With that, you’d think that the girl who’s training specifically to defeat the Dragon-types (and also has a handful of powerful and fully evolved Pokémon in her team) would do better than the girl who doesn’t, but that’s far from being the case here.

‘’She isn’t being look good in this episode’’? I don’t see how she isn’t. In all single battles that I’ve seen with Mamoswine she has always been going rather offensive, and not focused that much energy on strategies or Contest moves. Just look at the battles Mamoswine had against Aggron, Tangwroth and Pignite. I’ve only seen her use Contest moves and combos during double performances, at least with Mamoswine, so I really fail to see your point.

The only thing I could possibly see her pull is that ‘’swallow-Ice-Shard’’-thing, which I really don’t see how it’ll help her in battle, as it served more as a ‘’looking pretty’’-thing back in her contests. That’s at least the impression I got. And while it’s true that she did combine it with Hidden Power, I can’t see how that’d work now, with Hidden Power only working like one sphere of energy rather than lots of them, like they did back in the DP saga.

I don’t think they’ve downgraded Georgia nor Dawn, rather the opposite in Dawn’s case, which I’ve already stated how. As I said in my last post, Dragonite was clearly established to be a truly powerful Pokémon, having lots of powerful and different moves in its possession and being able to withstand lots of attacks without taking any serious damage. All of those Magnemite and those Elite Pokémon all attacked it, after all, and if it was able to withstand those attacks without taking any real serious damage, which only that Hydreigon was able to cause. If Dragonite can withstand all of those attacks, he is, without a doubt, an extremely powerful Pokémon. Giving such a powerful Pokémon to Iris like this is cheap, but that’s a whole other story. My point is, that it’s Georgia and Dawn that have been downgraded, they’re just up against an amazingly powerful Pokémon that seems to be in a whole other league. This was only established with its OHKO against Beartic, but yet Dawn manages (from the looks of things, of course, can’t say for a fact) to stand up to it, and proving to be quite a challenge to it at that. Which I would have no problem with; if it wasn’t for the fact that it from previous episodes had been established to possess that tremendous strength and stamina.

Also, isn’t Dragonite still disobedient in this episode? How is Iris going with her usual offensive style of battling if she really isn’t the one doing the battling in the first place? The disobedience problems might be solved here, but we know that Dragonite still is going to be disobedient during this battle thanks to the scans.

(By the way, sorry for late reply! I completely forgot about this)

 

[Hellwarden]

Sweet Arceus, what a long three weeks its been, and I hope it's worth the wait.

Mamoswine's rare fights back in DP were always interesting, so I'm hoping the battle against Dragonite follows suit.

 

[ShinyMinccino]

Well, I just joined Bulbagarden Forums. Hi to you all! I just want to say that I can't for this episode to air in the morning! It really has been a long three weeks.

 

[Hellion]

Reading this diagonally

What are you saying? ''Kairyu's disobedience didn't even seem to really make her mad, sad, doubtful, affect her in any way.''? What?
Didn’t you notice how frustrated Iris was during their battle?

Frustrated that Kairyu wasn't listening to her but does it force a change in her? Does it affect her character in any meaningful direction? No, Iris is still the same person as she always was because there's never anything that actually sticks in terms of flaws, in terms of struggles. Just in this episode, Hikari and Mammoo push Kairyu and it starts to listen to Iris, Dragon Master extraordinaire, pure radiant saint, special snowflake who can do no wrong, because in the end, she was right, he's nothing without her, he needs her to win this battle. Again, there's no conflict here and the storyline is hollow. It's simply designed for cheap hollow drama.

She must learn to tame her Pokémon, right?

Wrong, Kairyu must learn to obey her. There's a nuance here because the problem is Kairyu. It's not about Iris proving herself, learning and growing to become a trainer worthy of a Kairyu that can bitchslap legendaries, it's about Kairyu realizing that he should listen to her or else he's toast.

Losing is definitely not the only option for character development

I never said it was. Hikari in the Mikuri Cup is a very good example of a character winning a tournament and developing throughout that tournament. Why? Because it tested the character, it built upon a foundation of internal conflicts and struggles that the character was going through. But here, there's nothing that warrants Iris' winning streak because it's not really helping her realize anything, learn anything, grow in any way, shape or form. This is just Iris wins for the sake of having Iris winning.

Oh, I guess that by that, you mean twice.

At least thrice, you forgot Fukumaru, you also forgot that episode that Hikari spent with someone that raised and trained Dragons, Grandma Tatsu. She saw Satoshi raise his Fukumaru. That's on top of her experience both in contest and regular battles. It's not like it's nothing she's ever faced before, you don't need to be a Dragon Buster to defeat a Dragon type. There's nothing indicating that she really has a problem with the type in question.

In all single battles that I’ve seen with Mamoswine she has always been going rather offensive, and not focused that much energy on strategies or Contest moves.

She's had most success with Mamoswine when she doesn't rely solely on straight up attacking, but combines it with other moves, other strategies. Here, it just seems to be Attack, Attack, Attack, Attack, i.e. Iris' boring battling style. With the amount of originality the writers showed in Dawn's previous battles, it's rather disappointing to see them downgrade her strategies to just spouting attacks. By the way, I don't think that Mamoswine the only Pokémon of Hikari that could have stood a chance against Kairyu. I think that Mimirol would actually have been an interesting matchup.

As I said in my last post, Dragonite was clearly established to be a truly powerful Pokémon, having lots of powerful and different moves in its possession and being able to withstand lots of attacks without taking any serious damage.

Which is the problem in a nutshell. The whole, it's a Dragon God, super powerful, can't be beaten, can topple legendaries like ragdolls, is on par with Shirona's Gablias... when A- Iris hasn't done jack to to deserve a powerful Pokémon like that to fall in her lap and B- Because it has no negative drawbacks. If her style of constant attacks weren't cutting it, if the disobedience led to Iris actually be tested, have to prove herself, nothing to really challenge the character.

There's nothing gained through this battle. Iris hasn't done anything to earn getting to the semifinals of a tournament, has nothing sustaining her getting Kairyu, it's a powerup to circumvent actually developing her and her team, and allow Iris to receive some glorification, again. Why isn't Hikari combining her conteste and battle styles? Why aren't combinations used to counter Kairyu's power. This would have actually been a good moment to address Iris' flaws in terms of battling styles: That she just calls out attack and doesn't strategize. This episode could have been used to see how far Hikari has come since her leaving the show, see her progress, etc. But it's just about Iris being gloridied and getting her requisite wins.

Why wasn't Satoshi v Iris in the first round? What purpose does it serve to have it there.