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Captain's Barricades-necessary or no?

The barricades themselves make sort of sense at least, I prefer them over people/Pokémon just standing in the way for reasons.

That said, as has been said multiple times above, some are just really unecessary. Akala would've been more fun if you could choose in what order to take on the trials, as they indeed don't differ that much in level. Would've loved to get more training with Lurantis first before taking on that hell that is Totem Marowak.

Also, the comment above has just reminded me I completely forgot about going to Haina Desert, cause it was blocked off and I had no reason to backtrack after beating the trial -_- And I indeed don't see the reason it was blocked off in the first place.

Finally, the worst offenders are Lillie and Hau in Malie City. Why do I have to go to the professor first, only to tell him I saw an Ultra Beast and he can say wow and that's it. And when you arrive in the garden, Hau blocks off the bridge cause for some reason I'm not allowed to skip the grass and trainers? Wut?
 
Also, the comment above has just reminded me I completely forgot about going to Haina Desert, cause it was blocked off and I had no reason to backtrack after beating the trial -_- And I indeed don't see the reason it was blocked off in the first place.

Yeah, I did the same in SM. It was even worse with me though, because I wanted Flygon for my team and I ended up getting it much later than I wanted.
 
Also just realised I haven't visited either LMAO
 
Especially with the way the plot is setup. After rescuing Yungoos, it's then the Gladion battle, leave to rescue Lillie, fight Nanu while waiting for Hau, back to the Aether Paradise, then Poni and beyond.

At what time during those events would one most likely remember "Oh wait! I can finally access the desert from earlier? Let me stop by." You also don't get all the items from the desert unless you defeat Nanu, to add further insult to injury.
 
At what time during those events would one most likely remember "Oh wait! I can finally access the desert from earlier? Let me stop by." You also don't get all the items from the desert unless you defeat Nanu, to add further insult to injury.

What, really? Damn, good to know I didn't go back earlier then :/ Seeing that multiple people forgot about the poor area proves that that was one hell of an inconventiently placed barricade at least.
 
Especially with the way the plot is setup. After rescuing Yungoos, it's then the Gladion battle, leave to rescue Lillie, fight Nanu while waiting for Hau, back to the Aether Paradise, then Poni and beyond.

At what time during those events would one most likely remember "Oh wait! I can finally access the desert from earlier? Let me stop by." You also don't get all the items from the desert unless you defeat Nanu, to add further insult to injury.

Reminds me of how in DP you had to get Strength in order to get to Snowpoint. You had to get Strength in Lost Tower WAY before you needed it and they never really gave you a good indication that going through Lost Tower was required for progression. Sure, there was that NPC in Hearthome, but it's easy to miss and by the time you get to Canalave, finding him again is a needle in a haystack. That was the only time in the entire series that I needed a guide to progress in the main story.

Game Freak really needs to be smarter about how and where they lead the players. Cues in the level design can help or hurt players perhaps even more than actual barriers. For example, if you have an open field but there's a dirt path running through it, you'll inherently know that that path leads somewhere and probably be inclined to follow it. Or maybe you'll see a large building in the distance which would serve as a landmark to help you figure out where you are. Same with timing of events, if you want the player to go to a particular section next you could have the path dump you near there or have a storyline event take place there. If you want the player to use a certain item or ability to progress, place it close to where you first need it. Honestly, they don't need to rely on barriers all that much if they adopt these kinds of design practices. The players will naturally be drawn to the places you want them to go instead of having to tell them. And it's going to be much more important that they get this right as they jump to console and fans start to expect larger and more open ended map design.
 
how is Haina Desert any different from past games though? like, the Route 1 "annex" in Unova is only accessible after getting the seventh badge. it's the exact same song and dance at play here so why single out the Haina Desert.

Because first of all, these games go out of their way to at all times tell you where to go in four different ways. Hell, there's even multiple NPCs telling you to visit Festival Plaza and use Refresh. When you reach Malie Garden, you're forced into it and also forced to explore the whole area first before you are allowed to continue the game. All of this makes you used to never having to think of where to go yourself.

But then there's Haina Desert, which you can't access before you continue the game first, and after that you aren't reminded of going back in any way. The game even motivates you to go on instead, gotta save a Pokémon in Po Town, gotta save Lillie in Aether Paradise. You aren't given the chance to even think about going back to another area first, so you forget about it completely.

Furthermore, every other barricade blocks a road you have to go through to continue your journey, so you're used to just ignore them cause you end up at them automatically anyway. Except with Haina Desert you don't, so again you forget about it completely.

In previous games you were used to having to do the thinking yourself and it was normal to have to backtrack to access new areas. I don't think (U)S(U)M ever requires you to backtrack to access new areas, except with Haina Desert. So yeah, you're just so used to being told where to go, that you forget about the one area you aren't being forced into. Either always tells us where to go, or give us full freedom, but doing both (and mostly the first) makes this very confusing.
 
Because first of all, these games go out of their way to at all times tell you where to go in four different ways. Hell, there's even multiple NPCs telling you to visit Festival Plaza and use Refresh. When you reach Malie Garden, you're forced into it and also forced to explore the whole area first before you are allowed to continue the game. All of this makes you used to never having to think of where to go yourself.

But then there's Haina Desert, which you can't access before you continue the game first, and after that you aren't reminded of going back in any way. The game even motivates you to go on instead, gotta save a Pokémon in Po Town, gotta save Lillie in Aether Paradise. You aren't given the chance to even think about going back to another area first, so you forget about it completely.

Furthermore, every other barricade blocks a road you have to go through to continue your journey, so you're used to just ignore them cause you end up at them automatically anyway. Except with Haina Desert you don't, so again you forget about it completely.

In previous games you were used to having to do the thinking yourself and it was normal to have to backtrack to access new areas. I don't think (U)S(U)M ever requires you to backtrack to access new areas, except with Haina Desert. So yeah, you're just so used to being told where to go, that you forget about the one area you aren't being forced into. Either always tells us where to go, or give us full freedom, but doing both (and mostly the first) makes this very confusing.
Actually, there's Seward Cave and Kala'e Bay, and Melemele Sea. Granted, there's no load of Pokemon only available in that area, unlike Haina Desert. It's also the only Tapu temple you don't even remotely come to visiting
 
Actually, there's Seward Cave and Kala'e Bay, and Melemele Sea. Granted, there's no load of Pokemon only available in that area, unlike Haina Desert. It's also the only Tapu temple you don't even remotely come to visiting

Ah yeah forgot about those. Though you could at least already visit part of those areas first, only to be stopped by water. And the water areas I remember better cause I soon as I get a new ride I go 'hm which areas can I now visit which I couldn't before'. That thought doesn't occur to me when I beat a trial cause you normally can't go any other way anyway ^^;
 
Because first of all, these games go out of their way to at all times tell you where to go in four different ways. Hell, there's even multiple NPCs telling you to visit Festival Plaza and use Refresh. When you reach Malie Garden, you're forced into it and also forced to explore the whole area first before you are allowed to continue the game. All of this makes you used to never having to think of where to go yourself.
i won't disagree that the Alola games have made it very clear where to go, but it's not like it's ever been a mystery where you're supposed to be heading in the series. barring the Kanto games, the series always makes it pretty clear where you're supposed to be headed.
But then there's Haina Desert, which you can't access before you continue the game first, and after that you aren't reminded of going back in any way. The game even motivates you to go on instead, gotta save a Pokémon in Po Town, gotta save Lillie in Aether Paradise. You aren't given the chance to even think about going back to another area first, so you forget about it completely.
But then there's Route 17, which you can't access before you continue the game first, and after that you aren't reminded of going back in any way. The game even motivates you to go on instead, gotta get that seventh badge, gotta stop Plasma at Dragonspiral tower. You aren't given the chance to even think about going back to another area first, so you forget about it.

literally. the same same song and dance. this is also the same region that has portions of Melemele closed off or hidden (Seaward Cave to Ka'ale Bay) in addition to smaller areas on Akala (Lush Jungle and Diglett's Tunnel) that have to be backtracked to as well without any given information. people have been clamoring for more backtracking and more to regions than what we have to wander through for the main game so this is all just...confusing.
Furthermore, every other barricade blocks a road you have to go through to continue your journey, so you're used to just ignore them cause you end up at them automatically anyway. Except with Haina Desert you don't, so again you forget about it completely.
now i do agree that the barricade doesn't really make all that much sense, but it's still nothing all that new for the series.
In previous games you were used to having to do the thinking yourself and it was normal to have to backtrack to access new areas. I don't think (U)S(U)M ever requires you to backtrack to access new areas, except with Haina Desert. So yeah, you're just so used to being told where to go, that you forget about the one area you aren't being forced into. Either always tells us where to go, or give us full freedom, but doing both (and mostly the first) makes this very confusing.
some are mentioned above, but there is backtracking. and i would say the lesser amount of backtracking can be attributed to the fact that whereas in most other games Surf comes in towards the middle, we get Surf at the second trial (the levels line it up with around the 2-3 badge in Gym games).
 
But then there's Route 17, which you can't access before you continue the game first, and after that you aren't reminded of going back in any way. The game even motivates you to go on instead, gotta get that seventh badge, gotta stop Plasma at Dragonspiral tower. You aren't given the chance to even think about going back to another area first, so you forget about it.

literally. the same same song and dance. this is also the same region that has portions of Melemele closed off or hidden (Seaward Cave to Ka'ale Bay) in addition to smaller areas on Akala (Lush Jungle and Diglett's Tunnel) that have to be backtracked to as well without any given information. people have been clamoring for more backtracking and more to regions than what we have to wander through for the main game so this is all just...confusing.

What you're not getting about the Haina Desert scenario is that Haina Desert is unlocked during a period of heavy plot. You're motivated to ignore Haina Desert because the game throws multiple major events and plot twists at you before having you leave Ula'ula completely. Not so much with the other events mentioned, Surf is unlocked in BW in a lull in the storyline so there's no real pressure to continue on (as the major plot events don't really pick up until Icirrus City), Seaward Cave can be freely explored once you've found Nebby, and Diglett's Tunnel can be found easily because it leads to the last major unexplored section of Akala and the players would naturally be curious about it.

Furthermore, areas unlocked by field moves are a lot easier to remember because you know what specifically unlocks them. You remember bodies of water you've seen throughout the game so once you get Surf you know that you can go back and explore those places. You remember boulders that you can push/break with Rock Smash and Strength. Trial barriers it's less clear because they can open up whenever the game feels like.

The issue isn't that you have to go out of your way. The issue is that you have to go against your intuition. Like I said earlier, the game can lead you somewhere without explicitly telling you where to go using subtle design cues and storyline pacing. These design elements end up working against you when it comes to Haina Desert because it conveys the sense that continuing the plot is much more important than veering off to an optional area at that point in the game.
 
What you're not getting about the Haina Desert scenario is that Haina Desert is unlocked during a period of heavy plot. You're motivated to ignore Haina Desert because the game throws multiple major events and plot twists at you before having you leave Ula'ula completely.
too bad you're given zero agency in deciding whether you do or don't do something in Pokemon. like i totally wish i could just ignore those events and go wander around elsewhere for a shade before moving forward. alas, the tech just isn't there yet. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not so much with the other events mentioned, Surf is unlocked in BW in a lull in the storyline so there's no real pressure to continue on (as the major plot events don't really pick up until Icirrus City),
Haina Desert opens as soon as you get Ghostium Z. you don't even have to initiate the plot events at Aether House (and thus starting yall on that impossible-to-get-out-of downward spiral of plot). you can go straight to Haina Desert.
Seaward Cave can be freely explored once you've found Nebby, and Diglett's Tunnel can be found easily because it leads to the last major unexplored section of Akala and the players would naturally be curious about it.
and the game isn't pushing you to go do your first grand trial?
Furthermore, areas unlocked by field moves are a lot easier to remember because you know what specifically unlocks them. You remember bodies of water you've seen throughout the game so once you get Surf you know that you can go back and explore those places. You remember boulders that you can push/break with Rock Smash and Strength. Trial barriers it's less clear because they can open up whenever the game feels like.
oh bull. the Haina Desert barricade is the last one in the game. it's on you if you can't use your brain to double check if maybe it was opened. that would work when it's Melemele and it's a ~big mystery~ as to what will open those, but by now you should be familiar. every barricade in the game that you can bump into opens when you beat the trial. aside from the Iki Town barrier, there's not a single barricade in the game that is distantly removed from the trial that unlocks it. like, i could buy into this a bit more if to unlock the Desert's barricade you needed to get the Groundium Z from Hapu. but no, it's literally unlocked by the trial you're a hop, skip, and a jump from.

plus, you have a map on the bottom screen at all times. and honestly if you can't remember the barricade that was about five minutes ago, i'm not sure you'd remember the benign pond that appeared on Route 1. (you being general, although it seems like you're included in that.)
The issue isn't that you have to go out of your way. The issue is that you have to go against your intuition. Like I said earlier, the game can lead you somewhere without explicitly telling you where to go using subtle design cues and storyline pacing. These design elements end up working against you when it comes to Haina Desert because it conveys the sense that continuing the plot is much more important than veering off to an optional area at that point in the game.
i don't get you. you constantly bemoan that the games spoonfeed you everything and yet Haina Desert is a problem? you're the one always clamoring for more backtracking and being able to go against the game's grain and yet....

the backtracking bonus areas have rarely been advertised in the games, if ever (although i'm sure there's been one or two hinted at); Haina Desert is no exception. and, to top it off, you have to go through it to get to Tapu Bulu so it's not even like it's one of those "well if you forgot to do it then so you'll probably just never remember"-type situations. the burden on returning to blocked off areas has always been on the player and Haina Desert is no exception.
 
Haina Desert opens as soon as you get Ghostium Z. you don't even have to initiate the plot events at Aether House (and thus starting yall on that impossible-to-get-out-of downward spiral of plot). you can go straight to Haina Desert.

And what reason would you have to go back there after defeating it? The game encourages you to go to Aether House after that and that's when all of the plot stuff starts.

and the game isn't pushing you to go do your first grand trial

Not as much because it's more out of the way and not as deep or urgent as far as plot.

oh bull. the Haina Desert barricade is the last one in the game. it's on you if you can't use your brain to double check if maybe it was opened. that would work when it's Melemele and it's a ~big mystery~ as to what will open those, but by now you should be familiar. every barricade in the game that you can bump into opens when you beat the trial. aside from the Iki Town barrier, there's not a single barricade in the game that is distantly removed from the trial that unlocks it. like, i could buy into this a bit more if to unlock the Desert's barricade you needed to get the Groundium Z from Hapu. but no, it's literally unlocked by the trial you're a hop, skip, and a jump from.

The problem with Haina Desert's barricade is that it's the only one you have to backtrack for. The others are all blocking the path forward. So that doesn't really give you a good indication of when it will open because the game teaches you that the barricades automatically progress the story, not that you have to go back and hunt for them. Furthermore, since they all look the same and there's no immediately evident trigger for them to unlock (it's just whenever the game decides you're ready instead of a logical trigger such as needing an item or ability as with field obstacles), it's more difficult to tell when they unlock.

plus, you have a map on the bottom screen at all times. and honestly if you can't remember the barricade that was about five minutes ago, i'm not sure you'd remember the benign pond that appeared on Route 1. (you being general, although it seems like you're included in that.)

And said map doesn't give you any way to remind yourself that there is a barricade blocking the desert and in fact only really marks where the next destination in the plot is. So that doesn't really help you much as far as backtracking. Maybe if it had a marking system like other games do you could make that argument.

i don't get you. you constantly bemoan that the games spoonfeed you everything and yet Haina Desert is a problem? you're the one always clamoring for more backtracking and being able to go against the game's grain and yet....

I don't care about being spoonfed. I care about being restricted. Quality of life improvements like guide systems, marking systems, and so on are fine by me so long as I'm given the option to ignore them and go off and do my own thing. Haina Desert is a problem because that's a poor moment in the game for backtracking, the game doesn't encourage you to revisit old areas and instead pushes you forward on a linear path, so you're probably not going to think about wandering off and exploring at that point.

the backtracking bonus areas have rarely been advertised in the games, if ever (although i'm sure there's been one or two hinted at); Haina Desert is no exception. and, to top it off, you have to go through it to get to Tapu Bulu so it's not even like it's one of those "well if you forgot to do it then so you'll probably just never remember"-type situations. the burden on returning to blocked off areas has always been on the player and Haina Desert is no exception.

Not quite. Remember that the developer of the game is responsible for creating the areas and incentivizing players to explore them. It's up to them to lead the players where they want them to go and for them to design the game in a way that encourages them to visit areas. So no, it's not entirely on the player to know the player can return to an area, it's also up to the developer to convey that going off the beaten path and returning to areas you've previously visited is worthwhile, and that's something that Game Freak has been doing less and less of.

Also, Tapu Bulu isn't much of an excuse when you don't interact with it or its ruins at any point in the story whereas you visit the other three at various points throughout the game. And you might not even want to go off and catch it at that point in the game anyway (even if you could), so that's not good incentive.
 
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If you talk to people in the game, generally they'll give hints as to where you are supposed to go, and of course the captain's barricades make sure to keep you on path. Malie City is one of the places that allows you that extra choice of going down either route 13 or 12. Unless there is a barricade on 13. I didn't go all the way down because I knew I had to go on route 12 due to the in game hints, and that's what players will do naturally. The most off route I did there was the power plant place for a few battles. The barricades and hand holding prevent that freedom and that intuitiveness of the players.

Haina desert isn't even hinted afterwards. Heck I only remember it being mentioned by Lillie when you first get to Ula Ula, and then its just there blocked off unnecessarily. I've completely forgotten it as I've made it to Poni. And I believe that's the issue is that it is such a large location to explore, but we are pushed forward and completely forget about it. Literally nothing to send us back that way. Other places such as the power plant place north of Malie at least have a random message in a bottle that tells you to go there and battle someone.

Of course I'm still early in Poni, but I feel like if there is anything at any point that leads back to it, it'll be pointless since the desert will feel too easy by that time instead of challenging and fun. And considering 3/4 of my team have some kind of move that can take down ground types easily, it is a disappointment. I would have rather have explored it already and used it to train up my team for poni. Not to mention items that are probably inside it and whatnot.

To me I just feel the barricades are too restricting, and not just them, the game in general. Maybe sometimes we'll go the wrong path, but any player will backtrack, and generally outside of exploring a bit to the sides, most players will probably still stay on path.
 
I don't mind them. I do acknowledge that access to routes with higher leveled pokemon would help with much needed grinding, but I'm pretty glad they restricted some areas because I don't have to backtrack in case I get lost.
 
The barricades didn't bother me, no. At least they're relevant to the story, and can't be helped, unlike some person with their stubborn ass Ride Stoutland from Heahea; that one actually got on my nerves way more. Or that troupe of nobodies blocking the way into Black City/White Forest for "no reason" in B2W2.
 
I've only been playing the game for a short while and I've recently completed the Jungle Trial. Do I appreciate the barriers? Not really. I agree with alot of the statements here that have been already made. One is most predominant, the idea that the islands are already small and allowing us to choose where to go would be so much better. Maybe have 1 or 2 barricades but don't restrict each area into a bite size chunk.

It'd be nice to go to an over leveled area and feel puny when you can't face any of the wild Pokemon let alone the trainers there. There would definitely be more of a sense of realistic emotion coming from running around the islands.
 
I'm a little late to this party but I don't mind the berricades so much. And I suspect I have the opposite problem of most people posting here. I can never seem to remember to backtrack to rocksmash or surf areas once I have those skills. But the Haina desert berricade sticks out in my mind and I always remember to go there before heading off to the Aether foundation.

I guess I'm curious then why some people can remember when to backtrack for surf and other hm areas that are blocked off but the berricade that tells you what you need to get through it is hard to remember.
 
I guess I'm curious then why some people can remember when to backtrack for surf and other hm areas that are blocked off but the berricade that tells you what you need to get through it is hard to remember.

Well I'm so used to using HMs that whenever I see water, I automatically think 'ok I can reach this when I get Surf' so when I do get Surf the first thing I do is think back to all the places I remember having water I couldn't cross.

With every other barricade you always proceed through there automatically, so there's no need at all to remember them for later. With the Haina Desert barricade I also assumed I would be send there automatically after the trial later, so I didn't keep it in mind at all. So after the trial was finished, and no one pointed me to Haina desert, I just completely forgot about it and continued my way.

HMs always means backtracking, the barricades never do except for one. So it just doesn't occur to you to remember barricades as places to backtrack to later.
 
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