Change in Pokemon - Good or Bad?

[RileyXY1]

Completely agree.

Personally, I think would underwhelming if all they did was take the traditional experience and put it on bigger hardware. Pokemon being samey is one of its long standing criticisms, particularly with people outside the established playerbase, or those who fell out of love with the game. The Switch will be a huge leap that everybody will have their eyes on, and offers an opportunity to create a new impression of what the series can be as an RPG. Whether that means a significant change to the battle system, more open ended maps and exploration, or some new approach to game progression [like the Island Trials], I absolutely believe that they should try to innovate going forward.

The franchise is not stale. Playing Pokemon now is nothing like playing Pokemon in 1996. Many features have been added in those 21 years. There's a lot more to take into account when playing a Pokemon game.

 

[Knightwolf09]

The franchise is not stale. Playing Pokemon now is nothing like playing Pokemon in 1996. Many features have been added in those 21 years. There's a lot more to take into account when playing a Pokemon game.

Honestly in terms of the battle system, not much has changed except it getting more complicated, z-moves and megas, and people weren't too fond of either at first, especially z-moves. So the system really didn't change much to the point it's the series's identity.

 

[Cookies and Creme]

The franchise is not stale. Playing Pokemon now is nothing like playing Pokemon in 1996. Many features have been added in those 21 years. There's a lot more to take into account when playing a Pokemon game.

You are almost correct. You forgot that the basics of Pokemon are literally the same, up until this generation, and even then there are still a lot of similarities
I have already stated this in my post so I do not want to reiterate.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Not only that, but the only moves, abilities, and items that would have to be adjusted from this change would be those that involve PP usage (making them more important than purely situational).

I think this idea has nudged me from neutral on the idea of a PP pool to hoping for it. Personally, PP Up has only been useful for online play or long treks, and I've never once used Elixirs or Ethers. Making them more useful and opening up the possibility for more PP-based moves and abilities sounds really fun!

 

[Sakuraa]

I think change in Pokemon normally turns out for the good. Doing the same thing over and over every main game gets boring after a while. Gen 7 was the biggest change up in a while with the removal of gyms, a region made up of multiple Islands, no Champion, etc. And though those specific changes were minor, the fact that there were so many of them made the whole experience feel unique and really enjoyable. Thus I wouldn't mind Pokemon going even further and doing some bigger changes in the future.

 

[Knightwolf09]

I think change in Pokemon normally turns out for the good. Doing the same thing over and over every main game gets boring after a while. Gen 7 was the biggest change up in a while with the removal of gyms, a region made up of multiple Islands, no Champion, etc. And though those specific changes were minor, the fact that there were so many of them made the whole experience feel unique and really enjoyable. Thus I wouldn't mind Pokemon going even further and doing some bigger changes in the future.

Yeah but that's the overall adventure that's been altered, we're talking about the core battle system which, as you can see, is a rather touchy part of the games.

 

[Pyrax]

There was an interview with a quote by Masuda that I disagree with:

"Kids these days or even people who grew up playing Pokemon--everyone is a lot more busy. There are a lot more things competing for a person's time than there were back then. For example, there are so many free games you can play on your phone now, there's so many entertainment options, so making it a little easier to play is the reason for that."

Imo GameFreak's current mindset won't do much for the Switch, which is why change is good for this franchise. It enables experimentation of ideas that normally wouldn't be used. And by playing around with ideas, Pokémon stands out not just among other jrpgs, but the previous games in the series. With the jump to the Switch (and after the 3DS era's problems), Gen VIII is the perfect opportunity to shake things up even more than SM did. I'm not just talking about ideas that (so far) only existed for one generation (i.e. Dream World, Mega Evolution, etc) or even one pair of games (Dexnav, Alola Forms, etc), but dramatic changes to the formula. Gen VII's trials were a step in the right direction imo, GF just needs to continue experimenting instead of just reverting back to Gyms next gen.
Oh yeah, and Pokémon is long overdue with a non-convoluted difficulty system. Most modern games have them right from the start, plus each difficulty can be Pokémon themed (i.e. Rookie mode -> Gym Leader mode -> Champion mode).

Also wasn’t there a poster of Ash and Pikachu In sun and moon or something like that?

Likely a reference to Pikachu's popularity. It's meant to show Mimikyu's jealousy.

For example, having each Pokémon draw from a PP pool instead of each attack having their own set amount of PP would be a welcome change that would spice things up for the better, and it seems to be be something supported by being something various rumors supposedly have in common (I think; correct me if I'm wrong).

I like the idea of a mana meter. It can be raised by leveling up, but otherwise isn't a stat.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

I believe they referred to Lugia as Pokemon X and they did say something about making it just for the movie or something like that.

Please provide a source for this claim.

Pokémon Gold and Silver was much different back then, having 3 completely different starters than the ones we know, being called Pokémon 2: Gold and Silver, And something like that. It’s very possible that Lugia was made just for the movie.

Why would the games be called Gold and Silver if Lugia was absent?

After all there are other Pokémon that are not “in game” look up “disputed Pokémon”.

A lot of these are one-off appearances in the background. None of them have as major a role as Lugia.

And Ho-oh was originally meant to be in Generation 1 I believe because of all those glitch Pokemon actually being removed Pokemon

Glitch Pokemon aren't removed Pokemon, they're caused by the game interpreting data for other things as Pokemon.

 

[MrMeowPuss]

No matter what changes are made/not made, there will still be unhappy people.

For me personally, I feel like the changes so far have been good but they come at a price. We have new features added but lose old features. For example they we got the rideable Pokémon in SM instead of using HM's but lost the amazing Dexnav and sneaking from ORAS.

When it comes to change of the structure of games like how Island challenges replaced gyms, once again we got new content but had old content removed. I know I would prefer them to add new content, but also keep that original content if it serves a good purpose. Post game is almost always lacking so if the main story was island challenges then gyms could be added to post game (or vice versa) which would be great.

The other area is difficulty. The games are always too easy and don't have a challenge. Difficulty levels are a must for the growth. I've said it so many times but they could scale the levels of wild Pokémon/trainers to a few levels lower if on easy, same level as you on normal and always 3-5 levels higher than you on hard. This would allow you to move freely over the map and play at your own pace. I personally believe small changes like these could really improve the games but keeping the core elements the same.

Change definitely needs to happy which it has, I just want that change to mean new feature being added WITHOUT old features being removed.

 

[Midorikawa]

I don’t want to them to overhaul the battle system. I don’t. Mind small changes like they’ve done over the years, but they certainly can’t do anything major. I think the update in animation is perfectly fine, and even that needs updating. Have you seen dartrix using the flynium Z. That was so bad.

They need to first improve on what they’ve added. And stop constantly changing things. Lots of people have stated how they prefer PSS over the festival plaza. And also dex nav and stuff.

I personally don’t use that stuff much but I liked Amie better than refresh. Amir was more fun with its mini games. And refresh actually makes it feel too easy. Part of the fun challenge is using money wisely and having to deal with that stuff while in the middle of nowhere.

Little things and little changes is all they need to do. XY showed that they’re still having some issues with always making sure plot is solid. And SM with its cutscenes galore added to the fact they need to learn a bit more about handling elements like that.


Overall to answer the thread question change is good but only gradually and not at the expense of the other elements.

 

[Bolt Strike]

So, to the people saying that changing the battle system or that changing for the sake of change is bad (there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s a perfectly valid opinion), I ask one thing: what WOULD constitute a valid change? If there’s a wrong way to change the franchise, then there’s a right way as well. And while I understand not everyone wants the series to change too drastically, it DOES need to continue to grow so it doesn’t become stagnant. I mean, after 7 generations, just new Pokémon (or the same reused concept) just wont cut it.

Well here's a list of do's and don'ts I would say for what should be changed:

Do:
-Add more depth to the battling mechanics
-Include mechanics that adapt to new technology
-Increase the size and scale of the worlds
-Change up sidequests and side activities that are not part of the core adventuring, capturing, battling, and trading mechanics (such as Contests and Secret Bases).

Don't:
-Remove the turn based battling
-Remove mechanics that improve the core gameplay mechanics and mechanics that are well liked (things such as difficulty modes and the Dexnav should be permanent features). If they need to make them feel different by calling them something different, do so, but keep the functionality.

Some specific ideas I think would be good to develop the series would be blocking/dodging mechanics for the battles, a more organized and fleshed out terrain system, open world, a proper co-op mode (think if you could adventure through the region with friends like how Ash travels with companions in the anime), and VR once Nintendo includes it in one of their consoles.

 

[Silktree]

Some specific ideas I think would be good to develop the series would be blocking/dodging mechanics for the battles

How would that work with the turn-based formula? We already have Protect/Detect and Double Team.

Add more depth to the battling mechanics

Like what? Please don't say fusion.

 

[Midorikawa]

How would that work with the turn-based formula? We already have Protect/Detect and Double Team.


Like what? Please don't say fusion.

They already did fusion. Just with legendaries. Hopefully they never do it it with anything else though in seriousness.



As for blocking and dodging maybe pressing a button during the battle gives an x percent chance of dodging or something assuming it’s nt an always hit move. We have also seen them start this via Pokémon amie. So maybe they can take that further somehow.

 

[Knightwolf09]

How would that work with the turn-based formula? We already have Protect/Detect and Double Team.

Pretty much what Vel said. Real time battling and I already made an example of how real time can work, take example of Pokemon Generations 3D. You can easily dodge by simply moving and I'd imagine move like what you mentioned can be a guard move.

Like what? Please don't say fusion.

I don't see the problem with it, you see so much cool art of pokemon fusion I don't see how it can be a bad thing.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Fusion by definition requires putting two things together, so it couldn't be done with just one Pokemon.

 

[Knightwolf09]

About Fusion, what if they make it like Z-Moves and any Pokémon can do it. But it doesn’t really change the appearance. Like fuse a Delphox into a Greninja and it will still look like a Greninja and have some abilities but it will also have some aspects of Delphox. Maybe it will have an orange aura or something and some stat balancing.

I actually came up with a concept for fusion on reddit once. I have it here View: https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/7h8bou/id_like_to_share_an_idea_for_a_new_gameplay/

 

[Serverus Snope]

Some kinds of change that could be neat:
-More non-Champion final bosses. The usual alternative is the villain team's boss (BW/Colosseum/XD), but why not try something else entirely? Perhaps take a cue from Stadium and have a powerful legendary be the last boss?
-Multiple story paths/endings. Major example: Contests become a legitimate alternate gameplay path. Minor example: Multiple options for gym progression accompanied by a wild Pokemon/trainer level system that scales with your progress.
-Doubling down on trainer customization, even extending it to height/build/etc. The decrease in options between XY and SM (for clothing, at least) was rather disappointing. I would kill to see Pokemon have legitimately in-depth customization akin to Saint's Row or Phantasy Star Online 2.
-New alternatives to Gym Leaders and traditional boss battles in the series. Totem Pokemon and the Motherbeast's stat-boosting aura are neat additions, but there are even more things they could try. Some ideas:
---Bosses that aren't Pokemon at all? (Like AI gone haywire, robots, threatening buildings/vehicles/inanimate objects that need to be destroyed, etc. Pokestar Studios kinda played with the idea, so it could be built on further.)
---Multi-phase bosses... and "phase" is flexible here. Some of those phases could be overworld puzzles, like if the foe flees during the encounter and you have to chase them down. (Makes me think of Pokemon Ranger where the player character has HP and they have to survive various obstacles.)
---Different objectives from KOing the opponent (like surviving a constant onslaught for X number of turns by opposing Pokemon... or one single, invincible foe. Or the objective is healing a wounded ally to 100% HP in battle. It could make status/support moves that much more useful in the main game.)
-More than one formal difficulty mode. Why'd they abandon it in Black 2/White 2? Seriously! It's just the kind of thing experienced players would enjoy!

Some kinds of change that wouldn't be as welcome:
-Fixing what wasn't broken (Looking at you, Festival Plaza)
-Sweeping overhauls to the base battling system... unless it's an alternate game mode.

 

[CynthiaLover]

For me, a change needs to have all the right elements needed. If they change too much or not enough, it can cause backlash and a lot of other problems. However, there is one thing we do have to take into consideration: Pokemon is designed to be ANYONE'S first game. So while I agree with the idea of changing it to a more Breath of the Wild-like style, there are a few too many red flags I see coming up. Let's start things off by comparing other franchises who have made such changes to their games like LoZ.

Digimon: Digimon was considered a "rival" to Pokemon in the early days, especially since both were trying to appeal to kids. Nowadays, Digimon shifted gears to appeal to adults and older fans instead of kids, "officially" starting with Cyber Sleuth. This, I felt, was a smart move, especially once Yokai Watch came into the picture. It was a change that could work really well with the series' general nature, which could be darker, more mature and more morbid than the more "kid friendly" ideals can tolerate. This kind of change was more welcoming to them, especially since the "kid appeal" mentality fell flat over time because of merchandise sales. So that kind of change, while still keeping many of the core aspects, was a welcoming and smart change to breathe new life into a franchise. That's a type of change that works.

Dragon Quest: Dragon Quest has always been very true to its roots, which has caused pitfalls in a number of areas. Plots often gain plot-holes, uninteresting or unlikable characters, and very generic "save-the-world-because-it's-destiny" plots. Some games in the series have averted some of these problems, like DQ8 (a big favorite of mine), but it still keeps to its roots. However, those "roots" still create sales, especially in their homeland of Japan, but it can cause the formula to become stale. However, I've noticed something in the upcoming Dragon Quest XI game. There's still the "you're-the-reincarnated-hero-to-save-the-world" plot, but I've noticed some gameplay changes. For starters, from the Japanese Let's Play stuff I've seen online, there is a lot more freedom of movement both on the world map AND in battle, the latter of which is a fairly big change from the usual turn-based battle. So there is a much wider space to explore with hidden items on the main map, while battles take a bit more strategy to properly coordinate now. Both you AND enemies can move closer to one another, power each other up, perform certain combos with certain characters, and, most notably, have a chance to defend against an attack without using the "Defend" action itself. In fact, from what I've seen, some tag bosses use that (freer movement/particular combos) as part of their strategy, meaning it's not just "Input command, watch it play out" like the more traditional Dragon Quest games. It's stuff like that that has got me interested in this next installment of the franchise. So those are changes that can attract new players.

Anyway, before anyone says anything, what I'm rambling about has a purpose: some changes are good if they can improve the quality of a game while keeping to its roots. However, change too much and the whole point falls apart.

Now, onto my suggestions. How about we have a wide-open map to explore like BofW/DQ, but when we engage in battle, it shifts to a somewhat similar style we're familiar with. For the battle gameplay itself, I like the idea of a total Power Point energy pool that depletes with each move use, but it will also slowly regenerate (say 1 point every 10 seconds, just for sake of argument), so it's not entirely RPG-style AP/MP/SP etc. Items that restore PP will have varied strength (Leppa Berries restore 10 PP and boost recovery rate to 2 PP for the battle, Ethers restore 20 PP, Elixirs restore 30, etc). In the actual battle itself, how about that the Pokemon are able to make small movements on their own before/after giving commands, and you can use the commands "Dodge!" or "Block!" to dodge or block a move with varying levels of success (ie: less experienced Pokemon will have less of a chance while higher leveled ones will have greater chances, just to set an example). But pretty much everything else remains the same, such as items consuming your "action" for the turn and so on. Would that be considered a good change to you all?

That's my 2 cents.

 

[Lillie Blossoms]

As long as the base formula still exists, still reconizable to fans and don't take too much of a drastic overhaul of trying to introduce a new core thing then no its not bad.

 

[Almonds]

It depends on what the change is. But whatever change happens, the games should be entertaining enough to keep people playing.