Changes to the Pronoun Field (Updated 23/4/23)

[colours]

Hey everyone! The following change has been made to the pronoun field:

• The pronoun field is no longer a text field.

This essentially means that instead of it being a text field as it was previously, it's now a drop-down menu that you can select from the following options:

You can find these under "Account Details" when you click your username on the top-right corner.

 

[RandomizedKirbyTree47]

Could we please have the option to select more than one entry on the menu?

 

[lisianthus]

Could we please have the option to select more than one entry on the menu?

That's why he/they, she/they, and he/she are there!

 

[Enzap]

Could we please have the option to select more than one entry on the menu?

We wanted it to be as inclusive as possible while still being manageable for us from an administrative perspective. As takoyaki pointed out, we do have combinations available as options now, and if you have other options that you want you are welcome to use the "Please Ask" option or add your pronouns to your usertitle or signature.

If there are specific options or combinations that you would like to see, you're welcome to suggest them. I can't guarantee they will be added but we will at least read and consider any suggestions.

 

[LemmaEOF]

I'd very much like my it/its pronouns back since they're the ones that feel most comfortable to me. I'm personally against having only preset pronoun options, but I do understand the administrative burden of having to deal with jerks who would put stuff like attack/helicopter or whatever. I guess I'll just put mine as Please Ask for now.

 

[Palamon]

I really think you should at least add xe/xem and it/its pronouns on the dropdown list. I find it odd these two were left out, since I did see people had xe/xem listed as their pronouns on here before the change was made to the dropdown menu. I also think none should be included, too, since there are people who don't use any.

I do understand why it was changed to a dropdown menu, in case trolls try to misuse it, or something, but I don't think there needs to be a few more options besides "please ask" for people who might use some other alternatives.

 

[colours]

We're currently discussing a checkbox system rather than a drop-down list. However, and we do apologise, but to be honest it is impossible on a practical level to include neopronouns. Don't take my word for it - take a gander for yourself at how many there are. As soon as we include one, the floodgates are going to open on why we didn't include others, and we might as well have gone back to the text field we had before. That said, it may seem rather out of left field how we chose to do this in the first place, so in the interest in transparency, I feel it prudent to explain why.

In short: abuse of the pronoun text field is precisely why we went this route. It's rather difficult to convey this well for those who aren't staff, but we have received report after constant report of profiles incorrectly using the pronoun field. As soon as we receive a report about pronoun field misuse, we have to decipher whether the misuse was intentional, reach out to the user to correct it, and wipe the field ourselves. Some of it came from obvious trolls and bad-faith users, while some were well-meaning users who weren't using the field for what it was supposed to be used for. After bringing up the matter to staff as a whole, it was agreed upon that due to the sheer volume of reports and trying to constantly reach out to different users to explain that they were misusing the field, we'd do away with the text field and go with a drop-down list instead.

 

[Mitsuru]

There is an annual survey that's been going for almost a decade known as the Gender Census. Its purpose is to collect data from anyone who feels they belong outside of the gender binary, and these results are published to help offer some perspective on how people identify.

This year's results (with nearly 40k submissions) have already been published and they list the most common pronouns used by participants. Maybe it would help to take those into account?

 

[Unovia]

There is an annual survey that's been going for almost a decade known as the Gender Census. Its purpose is to collect data from anyone who feels they belong outside of the gender binary, and these results are published to help offer some perspective on how people identify.

This year's results (with nearly 40k submissions) have already been published and they list the most common pronouns used by participants. Maybe it would help to take those into account?

If I might (my pronouns are he/him), I think there should be a poll to ask this question of the community.

 

[LemmaEOF]

but to be honest it is impossible on a practical level to include neopronouns.

it/its...aren't neopronouns, though? they're very much just part of the standard English language. Plus the gender census (linked above) saw it/its reaching up to above 15% this year - there's very clearly a lot of folks who use them.

 

[colours]

it/its...aren't neopronouns, though?

No, not that in particular. it/its is probably fine and will likely be added when we revise this.

 

[Kit Chan]

I miss when it used to be a Latias, Latios or Gardevior icon.

 

[Chevywolf30]

Can we just have a male/female dropdown option for those of us that aren't interested in having a basic grammar lesson as part of our profile information?

 

[lisianthus]

Can we just have a male/female dropdown option for those of us that aren't interested in having a basic grammar lesson as part of our profile information?

Pronouns don't necessarily necessitate gender--someone who's female, for example, may prefer 'they' over 'she', but still like both. Therefore, they/she. Or, someone who's nonbinary that prefers he/they pronouns.

Gender is a spectrum, and we'd rather not leave out as many members as we can, even if we sometimes do fail in that regard, regrettably.

Considering how you can set your gender in your bio, it's still information available on the forums. If you know how to refer to someone, you don't need to know their gender right on the page.

Please make sure to think of others before you ask for an option such as this one-- what you may see as a plain 'basic grammar lesson' may be seen as politeness and 'fundamental decency' for others.

We appreciate your input, and if you have any questions about this, please ask!

 

[Flannery]

I know I'm too new to have a say, but I would like to suggest at least letting the 3 most common neopronouns through. Especially since pronouns are a means by which people feel most comfortable expressing themselves and it's not uncommon for even good faith actors to ignore "Ask me for my Pronouns" due to just having glossed over it. Having something there is at least a facilitation for such users, on both sides.

 

[LucyInTheSky]

In short: abuse of the pronoun text field is precisely why we went this route. It's rather difficult to convey this well for those who aren't staff, but we have received report after constant report of profiles incorrectly using the pronoun field. As soon as we receive a report about pronoun field misuse, we have to decipher whether the misuse was intentional, reach out to the user to correct it, and wipe the field ourselves. Some of it came from obvious trolls and bad-faith users, while some were well-meaning users who weren't using the field for what it was supposed to be used for. After bringing up the matter to staff as a whole, it was agreed upon that due to the sheer volume of reports and trying to constantly reach out to different users to explain that they were misusing the field, we'd do away with the text field and go with a drop-down list instead.

This is just lame. If they're using the pronoun field for something it's not supposed to be used for, then who cares as long as it's not hurting anyone, and can't the trolls and bad-faith users be dealt with since they're, you know, trolls and bad-faith users? As a demi-girl, I'd rather the field be open and allow harmless misuse of the field than just deal with the limited options here. Yes, dealing with trolls can be exhausting, but you were the ones who volunteered for this job, and if you really want to make an appearance of being LGBTQ+ friendly than this is just the bare minimum.

 

[Enzap]

This is just lame. If they're using the pronoun field for something it's not supposed to be used for, then who cares as long as it's not hurting anyone, and can't the trolls and bad-faith users be dealt with since they're, you know, trolls and bad-faith users? As a demi-girl, I'd rather the field be open and allow harmless misuse of the field than just deal with the limited options here. Yes, dealing with trolls can be exhausting, but you were the ones who volunteered for this job, and if you really want to make an appearance of being LGBTQ+ friendly than this is just the bare minimum.

This site is much bigger than a single user field. The amount of time our volunteers were spending chasing trolls and potential trolls down was so disproportionately high that something needed to change. We do make a point of being LGBTQ+ friendly, in fact a huge percentage of our staff is a part of that community. And this is one of the reasons why we cannot allow people to abuse the pronoun field. Letting people get away with that does hurt people because it perpetuates transphobia in a space that should be as welcoming as possible. We welcome the feedback, but frankly it's not up to you to determine what our site's priorities are and how our mods should spend their time.

That being said, we are working on ways now that will give people more options with that field. It won't be quite as free as an open text field, but it should be an improvement over the current system.

 

[Enzap]

I know I'm too new to have a say, but I would like to suggest at least letting the 3 most common neopronouns through. Especially since pronouns are a means by which people feel most comfortable expressing themselves and it's not uncommon for even good faith actors to ignore "Ask me for my Pronouns" due to just having glossed over it. Having something there is at least a facilitation for such users, on both sides.

As I mentioned in my above post, we are looking at expanding our options right now. What neopronouns do you have in mind?

I can't promise they will be included, colours explained above why neopronouns are tricky in this context, but I am curious which ones people would be interested in having.

 

[LucyInTheSky]

This site is much bigger than a single user field. The amount of time our volunteers were spending chasing trolls and potential trolls down was so disproportionately high that something needed to change. We do make a point of being LGBTQ+ friendly, in fact a huge percentage of our staff is a part of that community. And this is one of the reasons why we cannot allow people to abuse the pronoun field. Letting people get away with that does hurt people because it perpetuates transphobia in a space that should be as welcoming as possible. We welcome the feedback, but frankly it's not up to you to determine what our site's priorities are and how our mods should spend their time.

Well, tough shit. You do realize that removing the field is exactly what trolls want right? Besides, shouldn't they be banned for being, well, trolls? As long as it's not offensive, I don't think most people would care about what's in the pronoun field, at least not to the point of not wanting nonbinary people to have their own pronouns. Hell, there are people who would consider any use of neopronouns to be abuse of the field, so you should just let people be free. You signed up for this job knowing that it would mean dealing with trolls, so you don't get to complain when you have to deal with trolls — besides, isn't getting transphobic trolls to reveal themselves a good thing? Besides, this is all just lame excuses and shows that while you may want to look LGBTQ+ friendly, you don't actually want to walk the walk.

 

[RexMissingno]

I'm coming out of hiatus myself and just saw the announcement. This is very unfair to those who have neopronouns and I myself have actually been experimenting with some and this was not nice to come back to. While I sympathize for having to deal with trolls, restricting something so key to many queer people's self-expression does not seem like the way to do it especially since there is still stigma and lack of understanding when it comes to neopronouns and this does not help with it.

I scrolled through this thread and noticed one of the issues was people not realizing what the pronoun field was intended for - I'm just throwing out ideas, but maybe including the bullet feature and in addition to that include an "other" option where users can type their pronouns instead may slow that? It could be worth a shot and may be better than jumping straight to restricting it entirely.

I also agree with what Lucy said in that it genuinely feels like giving the trolls what they want. Their intentions are to cause this type of drama and make it harder for people with neopronouns. As I said I sympathize with how ruthless trolls can be, but at the same time is the best scenario for transphobes.