Mafia Chaos Mafia V: This Time it's Personal. Endgame: This Is The Greatest Plan!

[Crystal Onix]

Reading through the posts, I though it seemed like there was a fairly large bandwagon on DarthWolf compared to anyone else for no reason relevant to the game. Zinn's looks like a joke vote, but HumanDawn wanting a bandwagon to form on DW

In-game they are physically incapable of directly harming a player, but the tiger plants growing on their backs will fire harmful thorns at the player if they stray too close, as they would in any other location.

I can see a granny-type ability being conceivably built around the tiger plants, based on that description.

Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I'm not exactly sure what your logic here is?

I didn't know any way to state that that was exactly easy, but I meant everything from "Also," onward as one big sentence with the quotes held up in parallel to what I wrote right above them as a reference to what I'm on about. Not as the usual direct argument-counterargument setup. I hope that part was clear enough. So therefore, Space seemed to be voting Jinjo for one reason, then HumanDawn effectively asks, "well, then why didn't you vote for me for this reason that looks similar, but is different?"

I feel that introduces a false equivalency into the game as an argument, which, given the lack of strong evidence I've seen so far, is one of the best things I have to go on at this point, aside from TheCapsFan's vote that you seem to share my suspicions about.

 

[Space]

I have seen scum players before who would post in other forum sections and ignore mafia games that are currently running by not saying anything in the thread and instead they would watch from the background. After reading everything, I find this odd you think I'm scum who is the 4th replacement and most of the time from my experience, it is always the scum roles that get the first priority in getting a replacement first. So wait a minute, if my slot never got a replacement then it could have gotten modkilled or would have gotten subbed in later on day 2.

I've seen that before too and it's not impossible, but it's way too big of a generalization to apply it to every mafia game. That's from your experience, but is that always the case? that's another generalization that I'm not comfortable with.

There could be a few reasons for my vote on DarthWolf too, yet you are not voting me Star Space.

do you... actually have a few reasons for your vote on DarthWolf? also by few reasons on Crystal Onix, I meant specifically for why Crystal Onix wouldn't make a post yet kind-of-reasons so that's not the same.

So therefore, Space seemed to be voting Jinjo for one reason, then HumanDawn effectively asks, "well, then why didn't you vote for me for this reason that looks similar, but is different?"

I think he was misunderstanding my post (on what my "few reasons" meant)

 

[Zachie]

Hey, sorry, was doing uni work. Why are people ganging up on Darth?

 

[TheCapsFan]

to which I say, taking the fact that you don't know why I did other non-Chaos stuff this morning as evidence of my alignment, is not the same as withholding your reasons for voting someone, and drawing false equivalencies like that only serves to cause confusion and, well, chaos.

what

One vote is a meme, a second is passable, but three is opportunistic.

Sir, you forget this is DarthWolf we're talking about here. It's not opportunistic, it's necessary. :U

Reading through the posts, I though it seemed like there was a fairly large bandwagon on DarthWolf compared to anyone else for no reason relevant to the game. Zinn's looks like a joke vote, but HumanDawn wanting a bandwagon to form on DW

Didn't you already mention this? Also, I agree with Lone that my vote is the most suspicious, not only as the third vote on the D1 bandwagon, but the potential for buddying as well; you've expressed these suspicions about me, yet you vote HD and not me. Why?

So therefore, Space seemed to be voting Jinjo for one reason, then HumanDawn effectively asks, "well, then why didn't you vote for me for this reason that looks similar, but is different?"

But what's the problem with asking that? It's a valid thing to ask, if you're choosing to vote someone over another there has to be some compelling reason to do so. It could potentially be that you're partners.

Hey, sorry, was doing uni work. Why are people ganging up on Darth?

Because he's probably goddamn kingmaker again.

In all seriousness, I can't remember the last time I've played a game with Darth. It's been a while, that's for sure. Same with you, Zachie.

 

[TheCapsFan]

I think people are taking the Darth wagon too seriously, honestly.

 

[ZinnLav]

Got a better alternative? It's Day One in Chaos no less, might as well vote for the lols

 

[Crystal Onix]

what

Different things are different. Space's reason for voting Jinjo was not the same as HumanDawn's reason given when asking why Space wasn't voting for HumanDawn.

Sir, you forget this is DarthWolf we're talking about here. It's not opportunistic, it's necessary. :U

I have yet to see anything in this game to convince me that lynching DarthWolf is necessary.

Because he's probably goddamn kingmaker again.

What is your basis for this claim? From here, it seems more probable that Darth isn't kingmaker, unless you want to claim that most of the roles in this game are kingmaker, or have some other special information that frankly, I don't believe you have. Not unless you're scumbuddies and he's told you as much.

Didn't you already mention this? Also, I agree with Lone that my vote is the most suspicious, not only as the third vote on the D1 bandwagon, but the potential for buddying as well; you've expressed these suspicions about me, yet you vote HD and not me. Why?

I think I know what happened. I have multiple tabs open to this game so I can respond on one tab and read or quote from another. I kind of suspect I'm not the only person whose done this. The only difference is I must have pushed reply on a tab that the system had loaded an autosave of my previous post onto, which I didn't notice at the time and didn't mean to do, but I can't undo it afterward. Section rules and integrity of the game and whatnot.
Different things are different. You both attracted a certain level of suspicion out of me for your votes in the DarthWolf wagon, but, as you acknowledged in the beginning of your post, I gave another reason for voting HumanDawn, that I hadn't seen you do. Do you remember that bit about the false equivalence? Of course you do, you quoted it as the first thing in your post I'm responding to. But now by pretending it was just about the votes, you're muddling the game with strawmen.

But what's the problem with asking that? It's a valid thing to ask, if you're choosing to vote someone over another there has to be some compelling reason to do so. It could potentially be that you're partners.

I've gone over this already. But I'd like to refer to Space's post I'll quote below, to entertain the idea that maybe there might have been a misunderstanding on HumanDawn's part about why Space was voting Jinjo. Between that and your throwing strawmen at me in response to me explaining why HumanDawn, I'll grant you the thing you're arguing about. Why not you? I mean, now that you've added the things to the case against you that were lacking before. On top of the "potential for buddying", as you put it.

UNVOTE: HumanDawn
VOTE: TheCapsFan

That doesn't mean HumanDawn is free of suspicion, just that TheCapsFan has made himself the most scummy in my eyes.

I've seen that before too and it's not impossible, but it's way too big of a generalization to apply it to every mafia game. That's from your experience, but is that always the case? that's another generalization that I'm not comfortable with.



do you... actually have a few reasons for your vote on DarthWolf? also by few reasons on Crystal Onix, I meant specifically for why Crystal Onix wouldn't make a post yet kind-of-reasons so that's not the same.



I think he was misunderstanding my post (on what my "few reasons" meant)

Between trying to be reasonable about both HumanDawn and me, Space is the towniest-looking player here, in my eyes.
Or the one actively towny-looking player. Most are still neutral.

 

[DarthWolf]

@DarthWolf Nice wall ya got there. Who's your scum team?

Rolls 2d20

DawningWings and Space

Only in War of the Elements, Darth...

Fair enough

There is an even night granny, I wonder if there is an odd night granny as the character I submitted would probably fit the PGO role perfectly.

Want to elaborate?

A reefback leviathan is a colossal creature (tied for second-largest in the game) that peacefully roams the waters of the crater, consuming microorganisms for sustenance as they go. Their large size and peaceful, slow-moving nature has resulted in a variety of flora and coral species settling and growing upon their flat backs, hence the name. In-game they are physically incapable of directly harming a player, but the tiger plants growing on their backs will fire harmful thorns at the player if they stray too close, as they would in any other location.

Ok that last sentence sounds really fitting for a PGO. Besides that, a peaceful creature, in chaos mafia? Yeah no, it's size would have to be abused in some way then. So in short, it seems the character and the role make sense together with what you're saying here.

aside from TheCapsFan's vote that you seem to share my suspicions about.

To both you and @Lone_Garurumon do you think scum!Caps would consciously place a 3rd vote? Knowing quite well that at least one of the other votes is a joke

Hey, sorry, was doing uni work. Why are people ganging up on Darth?

I'm a fan favourite.

Sir, you forget this is DarthWolf we're talking about here. It's not opportunistic, it's necessary. :U

Ok now I'm not sure if you are still just messing around or considering me as a valid D1 lynch because someone has to die.

I think people are taking the Darth wagon too seriously, honestly.

Then why are you still voting me?

In all seriousness, I can't remember the last time I've played a game with Darth. It's been a while

Yeah I haven't played in a while, how do you like my 2nd wall btw

 

[Zachie]

In all seriousness, I can't remember the last time I've played a game with Darth. It's been a while, that's for sure. Same with you, Zachie.

Did you miss me?

I'm a fan favourite.

Oh, so nothing new then.

 

[Crystal Onix]

To both you and @Lone_Garurumon do you think scum!Caps would consciously place a 3rd vote? Knowing quite well that at least one of the other votes is a joke

I can't speak to scum!Caps vs town!Caps, and anyway, weren't we told earlier not to play the meta?

 

[HumanDawn]

You said it yourself though, if it can be faked, what's the point of asking for one?

Because we could get one straight from the horse's mouth. Star DawningWinds posted their explanation, but it was only via text. By doing so, he has bought time for the Mediators to make him a fake RolePM if they are scum.

Unvote: Magnificent Entertainer
Vote: DarthWolf

If you want to be lynched, fine by me. If you're trying to stir up pity, it's okay, I don't have a heart for that stuff.

Do I see signs of scum here, wishing not to jump the wagon too soon and look suspicious?

Here we see a Blight in its natural environment, self-voting for pity, and setting up a potential future vote on Snowy. If Blight DarthWolf was a Star, he would have voted Star Snowy to show he has the best interest of the Stars at heart, but yet wants to build pity on himself and shade others. We all know he's not going to keep the vote on himself at the end.

 

[MegaPod]

I can't speak to scum!Caps vs town!Caps, and anyway, weren't we told earlier not to play the meta?

What, do you mean this?

12. Do not speculate about player substitutions, activity levels outside the thread, or related topics. That sort of metagaming is unsportsmanlike.

I don’t see anything about not reading players based on their performance in past games. Banning that seems a little silly, at least to me.

 

[HumanDawn]

Reading through the posts, I though it seemed like there was a fairly large bandwagon on DarthWolf compared to anyone else for no reason relevant to the game. Zinn's looks like a joke vote, but HumanDawn wanting a bandwagon to form on DW sounds a bit suspicious to me, as does TheCapsFan obliging to HD's request.

On the other hand, DarthWolf makes me wonder if he's just putting in a joke vote, or if he has a role-related reason to jump on his own bandwagon.

>HumanDawn pushes for a lynch in a time of no good cases - bit s u s p i c i o u s
>TheCapsFan agrees and votes along - ^see above
>DarthWolf votes himself - maybe a joke vote or role-related reason nothing to do with trying to build up pity, no

Interesting that you don't point out that DW voted himself despite providing a reason to suspect Snowy, huh.

Also,
From where I am, it looks like Space is voting Jinjo because Jinjo is using other non-game-related activity I did this morning as evidence of my alignment,

and HumanDawn is conflating that with HumanDawn claiming there might be potential secondary reasons (though I know not what) for voting DarthWolf,

to which I say, taking the fact that you don't know why I did other non-Chaos stuff this morning as evidence of my alignment, is not the same as withholding your reasons for voting someone, and drawing false equivalencies like that only serves to cause confusion and, well, chaos.
VOTE: HumanDawn

I think I am a bit lost here, but even if the equivalency is not the same - Star Space could have also criticized my vote on Blight DarthWolf by saying it's unfair of me for voting him when DarthWolf could have only confirmed at that exact same time I was voting him rather than him confirming in his scum chat first. She could have pointed it out and not voted me either, saying how Star Jinjo did it is slightly more suspicious and worse, but no such thoughts were presented in the first place.

 

[HumanDawn]

Wewe dating?

The Darth wagon is definitely random.

Yes, it is definitely random from one who does not see from my eyes.

The grass is green, the sky is blue, and the earth is round.

Jinjo's vote is bad sportsmanship, but imo not something scummy to vote them over.
Darth feels like a very odd wagon that started as a meme, but at this point it's gotten carried away to the point where I'm kinda wary of it. Darth is also on his own wagon which feels quite unusual. My gut instinct is to scream Jester, but that almost feels too pedestrian for Chaos.

Vote: TheCapsFan

One vote is a meme, a second is passable, but three is opportunistic.


A reefback leviathan is a colossal creature (tied for second-largest in the game) that peacefully roams the waters of the crater, consuming microorganisms for sustenance as they go. Their large size and peaceful, slow-moving nature has resulted in a variety of flora and coral species settling and growing upon their flat backs, hence the name. In-game they are physically incapable of directly harming a player, but the tiger plants growing on their backs will fire harmful thorns at the player if they stray too close, as they would in any other location.


Maybe I'm just being dumb, but I'm not exactly sure what your logic here is?

If Blight DarthWolf is actually a Jester, we just let him win today and be done with it. No more future distractions and the game goes on.

Fourth is deflective to try to not get more votes on themselves.

 

[HumanDawn]

I didn't know any way to state that that was exactly easy, but I meant everything from "Also," onward as one big sentence with the quotes held up in parallel to what I wrote right above them as a reference to what I'm on about. Not as the usual direct argument-counterargument setup. I hope that part was clear enough. So therefore, Space seemed to be voting Jinjo for one reason, then HumanDawn effectively asks, "well, then why didn't you vote for me for this reason that looks similar, but is different?"

I feel that introduces a false equivalency into the game as an argument, which, given the lack of strong evidence I've seen so far, is one of the best things I have to go on at this point, aside from TheCapsFan's vote that you seem to share my suspicions about.

Star Crystal Onix, you seem to be putting words in my posts, because I never said, nor implied (thus, how can I have "effectively" asked?) that I consider it a different scenario. Of course, the arguments are slightly different for being outside the thread, but the gist of the argument remains the same: I was voting them for possibly confirming that they were partaking in the game in their Blight chat, while Star Jinjo was voting you for playing elsewhere to potentially avoid the game thread as Blights have a harder time to engage in the game.

There could be "a few reasons" for both as to why they would both be Town not partaking in the game, but Star Space focuses on Star Jinjo while not focusing on my vote on Star DarthWolf. No reasoning like "I Star read you, HumanDawn, so I am willing to forgive you", nothing.

 

[HumanDawn]

I've seen that before too and it's not impossible, but it's way too big of a generalization to apply it to every mafia game. That's from your experience, but is that always the case? that's another generalization that I'm not comfortable with.

I agree Star Space, but these kinds of arguments have been used before by Star Jinjo, so for me, it is not indicative of alignment. Having said that, do you take my vote on Star DarthWolf seriously? You did not comment on it.

do you... actually have a few reasons for your vote on DarthWolf? also by few reasons on Crystal Onix, I meant specifically for why Crystal Onix wouldn't make a post yet kind-of-reasons so that's not the same.

I think he was misunderstanding my post (on what my "few reasons" meant)

No, I understood it perfectly, but I can see where the confusion would arise from me saying "for my vote on DarthWolf", when in mind I wanted to refer to a counter to my reasoning.

 

[HumanDawn]

Different things are different. Space's reason for voting Jinjo was not the same as HumanDawn's reason given when asking why Space wasn't voting for HumanDawn.

I have yet to see anything in this game to convince me that lynching DarthWolf is necessary.

What is your basis for this claim? From here, it seems more probable that Darth isn't kingmaker, unless you want to claim that most of the roles in this game are kingmaker, or have some other special information that frankly, I don't believe you have. Not unless you're scumbuddies and he's told you as much.
I think I know what happened. I have multiple tabs open to this game so I can respond on one tab and read or quote from another. I kind of suspect I'm not the only person whose done this. The only difference is I must have pushed reply on a tab that the system had loaded an autosave of my previous post onto, which I didn't notice at the time and didn't mean to do, but I can't undo it afterward. Section rules and integrity of the game and whatnot.
Different things are different. You both attracted a certain level of suspicion out of me for your votes in the DarthWolf wagon, but, as you acknowledged in the beginning of your post, I gave another reason for voting HumanDawn, that I hadn't seen you do. Do you remember that bit about the false equivalence? Of course you do, you quoted it as the first thing in your post I'm responding to. But now by pretending it was just about the votes, you're muddling the game with strawmen.
I've gone over this already. But I'd like to refer to Space's post I'll quote below, to entertain the idea that maybe there might have been a misunderstanding on HumanDawn's part about why Space was voting Jinjo. Between that and your throwing strawmen at me in response to me explaining why HumanDawn, I'll grant you the thing you're arguing about. Why not you? I mean, now that you've added the things to the case against you that were lacking before. On top of the "potential for buddying", as you put it.

UNVOTE: HumanDawn
VOTE: TheCapsFan

That doesn't mean HumanDawn is free of suspicion, just that TheCapsFan has made himself the most scummy in my eyes.

Between trying to be reasonable about both HumanDawn and me, Space is the towniest-looking player here, in my eyes.
Or the one actively towny-looking player. Most are still neutral.

Crystal Onix is likely a Star.

Having said so, I do not agree with TheCapsFan wagon but I am looking forward to a post from them still.

 

[Doctor Floptopus]

I don’t see anything about not reading players based on their performance in past games. Banning that seems a little silly, at least to me.

To clarify, this rule is specifically about:
1. Speculating on why an inactive player hasn't been subbed or modkilled
2. Speculating on why an active player has been subbed
3. Speculating on the order that players are subbed out, if more than one sub is required.
4. Speculating on why a player is active in other areas of the forum but not the mafia thread (i.e. "flop posted on the discord three times yesterday but didn't make a mafia post, they must be mafia lurking!").

Discussing meta in the context of a player's performance in previous (finished) games is fine.

 

[HumanDawn]

I think people are taking the Darth wagon too seriously, honestly.

Oh, and I would rather things be taken too seriously than not seriously at all. This is The War Room, after all. Having said so, I am very serious about lynching DarthWolf .

 

[Snowy]

Want to elaborate?

To be honest, the open claiming of this game is still something I'm finding weird.

The character I submitted is an armoured hero that uses a gun. His primary form literally has the word "Shooting" in its name, so that's why I think a shooting type role would be appropriate. Either PGO or Vig.