Characters: Leave after development, or stay due to popular demand?

[Cascada]

Every person who watches Pokemon, actually has someone who they like, love, relate to, or just enjoy seeing.

I decided to make this thread because something has been coming up lately, that I thought was interesting, which is this:
Like any anime, there are some fans who are very nostalgic, and refuse to give up on their favorite character, or pokemon.

For instance, when Ambipom was released, many were upset, hell, some were upset over the trade.

However, along with those that were, were also those that weren't due to the fact that they felt that Ambipom really had no more progress to make.

My question to you all is, is it better for a character to leave the show, after some serious development, or after they are "believed" to be finished with, or should they stay on the show for the good gracious of the fanbase and those who adore them.

Discuss.

 

[Shinneth]

This... I can't really vote either way for, because it's honestly a case-by-case basis. Aipom lost all of her charm when she got traded to Dawn and evolved, imo. She definitely deserved a better send-off, but she honestly did feel like dead weight to me by late-DP. Then again, so did the rest of Dawn's Pokemon that weren't Piplup to varying degrees.

There are plenty of characters who have a wrapped up story and thus have no real reason to appear again; Zoey comes to mind immediately, if only because she's won a Grand Festival and thus has achieved Top Coordinator status. Logically she's moving on up in life now, so there's no reason to showcase her for any "growth" purposes. I'd say outside of Ursula, there's no real reason for any of Dawn's rivals to ever show up again (unless they want to make Dawn and Kenny battle one more time to settle that 1-1 streak they have... though their perfect opportunity to do that was utterly WASTED on Ash, of course) except for Ursula, who never got in a win against Dawn and got the least spotlight of the long-term rivals, even though she was by far the most interesting of the bunch, imo. Dawn herself is an arguable case. Her special could very well be enough to serve as a way to close the book on her, but I wouldn't object to seeing how she fares going solo. And I also want to see how well she resists getting any new Pokemon from Hoenn.

However, for the case of most characters, I wouldn't want them returning for the long haul; an episode or at most a mini-arc would be most suitable since too much nostalgia can detract from storylines presently going on if not done right. I'd like to see Gary continue to make random appearances; his send-off was rather out of left field and even if Gary didn't do very much in DP, it was still nice to see how he was faring in his new goal in life.

Paul may have settled his rivalry with Ash, but there was a lot more to those two than their rivalry, and there are still some questions left unanswered about Paul. I definitely believe there's still mileage left in him, and I feel the same way with Barry. Keeping up with him now and then would be neat.

If this show would let the characters freaking age, I'd love to see Max again as a full-fledged legitimate trainer with his Ralts. I wouldn't mind seeing Brock try to apply for internship at one of the Pokemon Centers to further his goal of being a doctor. The only way I'd accept a Misty reappearance if she ditches her bland, unattractive anime style and adapts an HGSS look.

I'd like to see Ash pull out Torterra again one day and give it some redemption; it's the only DP Pokemon of Ash's that got the major shaft without any resolution or comeback whatsoever, plus I think it'd be worthwhile to see Ash learn how to battle with tank-style Pokemon better, since we all know he's all about his glass cannon sweepers.

I'm... not sure if I missed the point of the topic or not, but overall any character/Pokemon that could benefit from a reappearance should definitely be kept at a limited time. But I do think cases like Ambipom are done and should remain done.

 

[Cascada]

Shinneth: I appreciate the depth analysis that you posted, but you both did and didn't answer the topic at hand. Your listings of who should be where, or who you would like to see somewhat answers the questions in terms of your descriptions as to why, but you are not fully stating if you believe it is ultimately better for a character to stay or go.

Like Misty, Gliscor, Iris and Cilan, Charizard, Squirtle, May, Dawn.

You gave a great description for Paul and Zoey, however.

 

[CrackFox]

For me, it's about their personalities 100%. I don't really care what they did or didn't achieve, if I like them I like them. I would say keep a character for the fanbase if I had it my way. However, in terms of development, getting rid of a character without properly wrapping up their time on the show is just adding insult to injury, so that does annoy me.

 

[Jukain]

I will say without hesitation that it is better for a character to leave once their story arc is over. If a character is made to stay simply because no one wants to see them go, well, we end up with Brock, and the writers struggle with what to do with them next. There are many times something has been given a sequel that didn't need one since the original was self contained. The result is that the writing noticeably suffers. You might say "they can change their role in show", but that can either turn out good or bad. If the change in mind comes out of left field or has no basis to it, then it's bad. If they explain the reasoning and it's valid, then it could make for further character development, but perhaps the fans will scratch their heads and be reluctant to accept it. (Like TR) I just don't think it's a good idea. All things must end, and the previous characters have had their time. One day, Ash and TR may meet the same fate. I will not argue once they do.

 

[ADVluv4life]

For me it depends on the ending status of the character.

May/Dawn/Misty/Brock/Max/Paul are examples of characters I would want to see more of again later in the series. Just to really know where they end up.

I like when older characters appear in the anime again, but not everyone of them- because not ALL of them had effects on me. Especially if, when they appear, they don't do much. I fit's just a battle or phone call it doesn't help me in this department.

The gist of my reply:
Only characters where their future really varies should come back. So Brock trying to become a docter would count. May and Dawn trying to become Top Coordinator would count too.

I think that explain's it on my part? I hope it does [make sense ))]...

 

[SolgaleoGX]

In most cases I like it to be, develope well, then leave. But sometimes characters leave and one feels like proper closure wasn't given to them, or that they deserve a little bit of better development. And bringing back such a character may hurt them more than help them since the show is so advertisey. <_<

I can't really name anyone from the top of my head. But since Charizard was mentioned, man lol. He left with a loss, and Ash has evolved so well over DP as a trainer. I think he deserves another round to redeem himself.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Interesting thread which has lot of grey areas not being easy to bring decision.

It depends from character to character.In theory writers could always create new conflicts for already developed characters opening new subplots through which more could be done with them.It just depends if their further development will be done in quality way.

For example some of replaced characters like May,Dawn etc received massive character development resolving most conflicts going for them and while they left with open ended stories having unfinished things to do possibly more most people are content with what they received.

On other hand Misty is example of character where writers never developed her as much as they could have leaving lot of potential untapped being replaced without any real closure.We barely know much about her backstory,her goal of becoming water pokemon master was never explored much going nowhere,potential to do more with her older pokemon was wasted resulting in several of pokemon being neglected(like Horsea,Goldeen,Psyduck etc).There were left conflicts in her character on which writers never focused which could have been used for quality development either.

In such situation reaction from fanbase was perfectly justified when she got replaced because getting rid of character while not wrapping up major plots in his story as well leaving lot of material unused to develop him more is result of writers incompetence and bad writing.
Further insult on injury was when ex head writer mr.Shudo in his blog basically admitted his mistakes explaining how only reason why Misty was not properly treated or developed much is because he didnt cared.

Than we have characters like Tracey or Max who got zero character development with their leaving under such circumstances being ungrateful and disrespectful toward characters.

To answer the question:
Yes character should stay if writers didnt developed them enough(being required) or if writers are willing to create new subplots in someone story developing him further while expanding more on older untied things.

More character development can never be a bad thing with purpose being to enrich characters background and storyline learning more about him while getting over new obstacles which life brings on his path advancing his dreams and making notable steps forward.
At same time viewers are being given opportunity to follow characters further growth as trainer and person enjoying in new story arcs which writers create.

One of good examples is Team Rocket.If they got replaced after Johto as it was considered to happen at one point we would never be given opportunity to see them developed more receiving justice as characters.So i have to say no its not always best to replace character.

I will say without hesitation that it is better for a character to leave once their story arc is over.

But we have to ask ourselves who out of replaced characters got closure in true sense of that word?Answer is no one with each character having things in their stories on which it could be expanded more.

Arguably some achieved their dreams like Tracey for example did,but on other hand problem which arise is that in his situation no development or exploitment of his past and character happened.

If a character is made to stay simply because no one wants to see them go, well, we end up with Brock, and the writers struggle with what to do with them next.

Brocks case is very specific.As we can see during course of series writers never felt need to do more with his character intending that his primary role is focused on representing "older figure"to group being someone who takes care of them and serves as mentor while explaining to small kids techniques which are used in gyms.

-another problem which was partially responsible for Brocks neglect is goal of becoming top breeder being rather passive one never being much about battling or competing.Main idea behind his occupation was about taking care of pokemon,preparing food and medicine raising them to be in top shape and considering how his character was never about battling or for action it seems writers had trouble of giving him more to do.

If we look by retrospective so far any character who had more "active goal" (like May,Dawn,Misty etc)being trainer or coordinator received more screen time than Brock did for a reason.Its easier to create some outlets through which someones growth could be showed if it involves battling or participating in certain events.
And this is something in what target demographic is interested the most in this show.To see pokemon battle.

Could they have done more with his character?Most definitely,but due to writers ignorance and lack of interest to do more with his character such thing didnt happened.

 

[Ranger Jack Walker]

I say its better for them to leave when their development is finished rather then have then stick around and risking them becoming stale.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I say its better for them to leave when their development is finished rather then have then stick around and risking them becoming stale.

Only problem with this show is that some characters left before their development even finished never being given follow up to display their progression toward their dreams.And than there are some who never got any development at all.

Speaking of already developed characters personally i dont see any reason to fear as long writers are creative enough implementing new things in their stories.Having them developed more gives value and depth to character and its story as long writers are doing good job out of it.And i know i would be interested to see some like May or Misty for example being developed little more.Later one especially because there were left many unanswered things about her having potential to do more.

Risk is always there and writers could screw over any new character already at start before being even developed but that doesnt stop people from giving them a chance,and if we are not open minded toward new ideas with older characters we might miss on some great things which this characters could bring.
What im saying is that it should be weighted out would someones return bring more positive than negative sides on table.

We can see through examples like One Piece,Naruto,Bleach etc how creative writers can be with characters without replacing them still doing successful.When one section of someones story is over with new things are being created with viewers following next development of characters learning more about them.

 

[CommanderPigg]

Nope. When a character is done, s/he's done. I don't see the point in milking out their story past their usefulness. Sure, I'd like to see a bit more of my favorite characters, but even if their story wasn't wrapped up, I enjoyed them for the time that they were on the show.

If they don't recieve closure, it's not the end of the world. The openess of possibilities to their story is appealing to me, and I really prefer that to them overstaying their welcome.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I suppose its up to individual and how they perceive this things.To some it works better if characters are being replaced with new ones liking current formula,while to some this isnt so much appealing.

Many people would love to see their favorites being fleshed out more as character to learn about their family and history,from where their ambitions,fears or love for something originates from and so on.To see them and their pokemon updated getting some more character development along with advancing their dreams working toward them .
Several replaced characters definitely could use some more development having unexplored(open) things in their story on which it could be expanded being given sequel but it depends from person to person if he is interested in seeing something being made out of it.

In my opinion purpose behind keeping characters or even returning them is to have more stable cast,opportunity to learn more about them and see them grow/develop further.Current pattern of ditching out halfway developed characters with who it could be done much more just to receive someone new who will end up in his ancestor shoes is not terribly appealing.

Personally i dont see something bad in character being developed more with new elements being implemented in someones story.As long writers do some interesting story arc out of it,im usually fine with it.

 

[Hestia]

I think it's better for characters to leave after their development. I'd much rather a character I liked leave than become uninteresting, which is the risk if the characters remain on the show despite the writers not knowing what to do with them. Plus there is always the risk of characters undergoing backwards development if they remain too long in a series. Watching a character learn and grow from their mistakes, only to keep repeating the same mistakes and have to learn the same lesson over and over again is annoying.
Although it can be argued that writers can always develop a character further, I think if a character is dropped it generally indicates that the writers feel they've done all they can with the character already (or t least, all they want to do.)

Besides, like CommanderPigg said, leaving a story open isn't such a big problem -it allows you to use your imagination.

 

[Froakie]

No character who has left actually finished their story, so I have no answer to this poll.

 

[Duckgon Z]

No character who has left actually finished their story, so I have no answer to this poll.

But we're talking about their character development, not their story.

When a character is done, they're done. If this was another show with better writers, I'd want characters to be developed and their story to end. But with these writers and this format, it's no good.

 

[CrackFox]

No character who has left actually finished their story, so I have no answer to this poll.

I don't see what you mean. May's quest was to enter the Hoenn and Kanto GF and she did that. Same with Dawn's goal of entering the Sinnoh GF. You can't expect to follow a character around through their whole fictional lives. As long as they begin with a goal and complete it before they leave then their closure has been given. The goal that they had set to warrant their time on the show has been reached.

I agree that potentially any character could return and be given new goals and desires in theory.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I think it's better for characters to leave after their development. I'd much rather a character I liked leave than become uninteresting, which is the risk if the characters remain on the show despite the writers not knowing what to do with them.

To be honest there is always certain risk being present.When new character is introduced risk of his character being stale to people isnt any smaller than its case with characters who are kept.It depends on writers and how they handle characters if they will remain intriguing or not with time span not playing much in here.
Besides being stale or not is matter of opinion.

For example many people still find Team Rocket interesting while at same time there are people who wanted them being replaced long time ago growing tired of them.No matter how much writers try you can never please everyone.

Although it can be argued that writers can always develop a character further, I think if a character is dropped it generally indicates that the writers feel they've done all they can with the character already (or t least, all they want to do.)

Not always.Tracey was replaced because of not being accepted as Brocks replacement which caused consequence of not being developed at all.While with Misty they replaced her because ratings dropped in Johto with writers wanting to change things abit.It was either her or TR according to mr.Shudo.Considering how Misty had smaller justification to stay due to being underdeveloped as character not having big enough role due to ex head writer not caring for her,she got the axe.

None of characters left "because writers couldnt do more",but because they rather want to replace characters leaving their stories halfway done in order to focus on new ones.For further confirmation interview with ex pokemon director Masamitsu Hidaka explained nicely why are girls being replaced with purpose of adding new piece of "eye candy".

If this was another show with better writers, I'd want characters to be developed and their story to end. But with these writers and this format, it's no good.

While its true that people who write for this show are not top of a creme,they are still good enough to make this show enjoyable enough to keep viewers interested.Over thew years they improved alot in several aspects so i reckon how some quality development could receive any older character who returns.

Just like they were able to do something good with older characters in first place,aswell treating good new ones same quality of writing would be applied to any character from past who tehy might potentially revive developing again interest for him.

The goal that they had set to warrant their time on the show has been reached.

He meant being given closure in true sense of that word with everything going for characters being completely wrapped up.
Ironic thing is that some characters didnt even accomplished what they wanted never being given closure.

 

[Hellion]

Since I always get labelled a hater for expressing the exact same thoughts that some people here are expressing, I'll just quote them.

Nope. When a character is done, s/he's done. I don't see the point in milking out their story past their usefulness. Sure, I'd like to see a bit more of my favorite characters, but even if their story wasn't wrapped up, I enjoyed them for the time that they were on the show.

This

If they don't recieve closure, it's not the end of the world. The openess of possibilities to their story is appealing to me, and I really prefer that to them overstaying their welcome.

Also this.

But we're talking about their character development, not their story.

And this.

Ultimately, a storyline is only a vector for character developpement. If the developpement is done, then the story doesn't really matter anymore and can either be tied up (Tracey) or left open-ended, with the character leaving to pursue their dreams (May, Dawn, Brock) or stating that they'll pursue their dream at a later time, doing something else at the moment (Max and Misty).

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Ultimately, a storyline is only a vector for character developpement. If the developpement is done, then the story doesn't really matter anymore and can either be tied up (Tracey) or left open-ended, with the character leaving to pursue their dreams (May, Dawn, Brock) or stating that they'll pursue their dream at a later time, doing something else at the moment (Max and Misty).

If we are speaking about character development how much exactly received Tracey or Max for that matter?
Misty received some character development but there was left room and insecurities on which writers could expand(like lack of tolerance toward pokemon,her fears like bugphobia,lack of selfesteem and self questioning when unreachable task is put infront of her having tendency to give up on things like it happened with attempt of training Psyduckor when gym was in danger,not being recognized by her sisters of being able to take care of things on her own being evidenced by episodes "A date with Delcatty" or "A Real Cleffa Hanger" etc).

Granted some like May and Dawn received massive character development,but once certain aspect of character development is done by opening new subplots in their stories opens possibility of new conflicts being created having to deal with them or bringing up some issues from past which werent addressed before with characters never being able to get over them.
In theory you can always develop someone more in character sense,it only depends in which way someone is going to do it.

Regarding character storylines and their dreams purpose of development in that segment is to increase character skills as trainer and coordinator with some notable steps being done toward its aim with new pokemon,rivals and tasks character would need to accomplish providing material for sequel of his development as character with purpose being to serve as testament to his ability as trainer,ability to resolve conflicts about his pokemon,get over issues with his rivals with confidence being increased.

 

[Rex Kamex]

Can't a character be developed further than originally intended? I'm not saying the writers need to scrape the bottom of the barrel in desperation for stuff to do with a character. But if they decide to go with an idea, and then later on go, "OH SNAP! I THOUGHT OF SOMETHING NEW TO DEVELOP THE CHARACTER EVEN FURTHER!" Well... is that an impossible thing to happen?

That being said, to answer the question of this poll... are we talking about the "perspective" of the show itself or the "perspective" from audience members?

Someone can be considered to have had complete development but still be popular enough for the character that the character is worth sticking around, and that if the character doesn't stick around, popularity of the show will decrease.

I'm not necessarily talking about Misty. It could be really anyone.

Heck, I think the Pokemon games themselves have pretty much developed themselves enough. (Aside from maybe some loose ends.) Doesn't mean it'll automatically be worth ending in a few years.