Cheating In the Games (Controversial Topic!)

[Faye Scarlet]

I have no issues with cheating at all, seeing as I cheated a lot back in the day. :V Though I look on it with shame today, back then I used hacking solely to get nicknamed Pokemon from the GTS. It would be some random Pokemon caught on route 209 or the like, or outside of Opelucid City. The Pokemon were 100% harmless, they wouldn't break anyone's games, but I wish I knew then that people might not appreciate getting a derp Pokemon that is all legit except the catch location.

Today, if I feel the itch for competitive battling again, I know I ain't got time to spend weeks/months breeding and trading and so on for the perfect Pokemon, so I'll just get a little outside assistance, as it were. I research the EVs and IV limits and movesets very carefully, so I know I won't be making god-like impossible Pokemon.

 

[Muur]

If you wanna cheat, whatever. Just don't boast like OMG I BEAT THE GAME IN LIKE 4 HOURS, U SUK U TOOK 40

sure but you hacked all your guys to level 100.

Don't cheat and play online either.

I would prefer people played legit. If you wanna play with no effort, go net deck on Showdown and laugh as your netdecking skills are better than the net decker you just beat.

Would you hack your gamerscore because you cba playing the 1000 hours and would rather be on the same level as someone who has worked their arse off 8 years to get the same score?

 

[EmpoleonProd]

If you wanna cheat, whatever. Just don't boast like OMG I BEAT THE GAME IN LIKE 4 HOURS, U SUK U TOOK 40

sure but you hacked all your guys to level 100.

Don't cheat and play online either.

I would prefer people played legit. If you wanna play with no effort, go net deck on Showdown and laugh as your netdecking skills are better than the net decker you just beat.

Would you hack your gamerscore because you cba playing the 1000 hours and would rather be on the same level as someone who has worked their arse off 8 years to get the same score?

Some people don't care for Showdown, they WANT to compete in real, official tournaments in-game but not go through the days and weeks it can take to get the right Pokemon. I know I said it on the first page but my friend essentially genned his team in an hour for the Primal Battle and did pretty good with it. It's not like he had a statistical advantage, his Pokemon were allowed to participate, meaning they passed an in-game legitimacy test. His only advantage was time saving, which technically, if you choose to do it the hard and legitimate way, that's your choice, technically nobody is forcing you to do that. You're $15 away, which, let's be honest, if you have a 3DS and the newest games, is nothing in comparison, from being able to make your team in a matter of hours, not days/weeks, and that's not just 6 Pokemon either, you can easily gen entire boxes of mons if maybe 2-3 hours.

I guess you could say that it's cheating in spirit but it's not giving anyone a statistical advantage.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

As to the breeding/not breeding due to time? imagine trying to say that in a competion outside of pokemon. "Sorry, i didnt train for this Kung Fu tourney, i just modified my body with a computer. Its cool if i still enter right?" "This horse is good to go right? You just boosted its speed stat with the computer like i told you?"

I'll say it again - there is no difference between a legit pokemon and a hacked pokemon. A horse with its speed stat boosted would be faster than a normal horse. A person who downloaded kung fu skills off a computer would be more skilled than a normal person. A Pokemon player with hacked mons is no more skilled than a player with legit mons. If you battled Ray Rizzo (who has used a Dream Ball Aegislash, very much hacked) or Sejun Park (whose Magmar in 2013 Worlds had a female OT even though its status page claims it's from Orre), they would beat you 100 times out of 100 - regardless of whether their pokemon were hacked or bred. They're simply better at the game than the rest of us - you can't hack in skill.

If you wanna cheat, whatever. Just don't boast like OMG I BEAT THE GAME IN LIKE 4 HOURS, U SUK U TOOK 40

sure but you hacked all your guys to level 100.

Don't cheat and play online either.

I would prefer people played legit. If you wanna play with no effort, go net deck on Showdown and laugh as your netdecking skills are better than the net decker you just beat.

Would you hack your gamerscore because you cba playing the 1000 hours and would rather be on the same level as someone who has worked their arse off 8 years to get the same score?

Yet again, winning on Showdown means you are better at Pokemon than your opponent, not at "netdecking". Teambuilding (or "netdecking", as you call it) and the playing actual game of Pokemon are entirely different skillsets - there's a reason that during tournaments, you'll hear top caliber players like Blunder or Pokeaim say "I'm using a team my boi CTC passed me" while CTC himself does not always place higher than those people, even though he is the genius teambuilder and they are not. Winning at Pokemon requires a high level of skill, and it is not linked in any way to breeding or teambuilding, so the Pokemon player who is playing better that day will win (barring hax) 100% of the time - whether it's on cart, on Showdown, with hacked mons, or with bred mons.

 

[ToddMann10000]

A horse with its speed stat boosted would be faster than a normal horse.

Which is illegal in horseracing. if it is discovered that youve altered your horse though anything other than breeding and training, your horse is disqualified.

they would beat you 100 times out of 100 - regardless of whether their pokemon were hacked or bred. They're simply better at the game than the rest of us

I cant disagree that they would beat me ( I dont even pretend to compete XD), which begs the question, why do they need to hack in a pokemon if theyre more skilled than me? Theyre gonna win anyway, why cheat?

"I'm using a team my boi CTC passed me" while CTC himself does not always place higher than those people, even though he is the genius teambuilder and they are not.

This is similar to my horse racing analogy. Person A breeds the horse/pokemon, Person B Trains the horse/pokemon, Person C rides the horse/battles the pokemon. This is a fair and legitimate way of playing both sports. There are people on this very site, happy to breed pokemon. Why Cheat?

 

[EmpoleonProd]

Which is illegal in horseracing. if it is discovered that youve altered your horse though anything other than breeding and training, your horse is disqualified.

I cant disagree that they would beat me ( I dont even pretend to compete XD), which begs the question, why do they need to hack in a pokemon if theyre more skilled than me? Theyre gonna win anyway, why cheat?

This is similar to my horse racing analogy. Person A breeds the horse/pokemon, Person B Trains the horse/pokemon, Person C rides the horse/battles the pokemon. This is a fair and legitimate way of playing both sports. There are people on this very site, happy to breed pokemon. Why Cheat?

Well, aside from the fact that finding someone to breed your team can take hours, them breeding and maybe training it can take even longer. Also, some of us (this includes me), only like our Pokemon to be our OT, and they don't NEED to hack to beat you, but they NEED to hack to stay with the game. The meta is always changing and to keep up with it would require hundreds of hours of grinding to keep up with, whereas you can re-gen Pokemon in an hour or two to keep up. Not everyone who plays Pokemon is MunchingOrange or Verlisify or shofu, not everyone makes a living and can dedicate their lives to Pokemon, people who go to work and/or school or volunteer or do countless of other activities throughout their lives can only dedicate a couple hours a day, if that, to Pokemon, and therefor are at a disadvantage in a game, that, like Glory Blaze said, SHOULD be about skill, not about the grind of catching, trading, breeding, training, testing, re-breeding, re-training, etc.

Yes, Showdown can be a small replacement for those busy people, but what if you want to compete in tournaments, like my friend did in the Primal Battle, or say the upcoming Johto Classic but don't have the time to breed your team? Well, you can either generate them completely or modify randomly caught Pokemon to be suitable for competitive play.

As far as your horse analogy, that would be like giving a Pokemon over 31 IVs or over the EV limit or something of the sort. Think of the legitimacy test that Pokemon go through like a drug screening that professional football players do. They're not supposed to take "performance enhancing" drugs, or going over their max EV limit in a Pokemon's case, but how they go about gaining natural strength is up to them.

Many players take dietary supplements and, while it's controversial, I don't believe that's ever been a problem because it's part of a diet, whereas another player might eat normal food without supplements and stay on the grind harder, the supplements is the powersaves you use to modify your Pokemon to be at its legal limits, or exactly the same as the Pokemon bred legitimately which took way longer, and the player not taking them is doing things in a more legitimate manner.

 

[ToddMann10000]

Yes, Showdown can be a small replacement for those busy people, but what if you want to compete in tournaments, like my friend did in the Primal Battle, or say the upcoming Johto Classic but don't have the time to breed your team? Well, you can either generate them completely or modify randomly caught Pokemon to be suitable for competitive play.

So, youre saying that i could, theoretically, hack some perfect IV'd with amazeballs movesets but-still-legal pokemon, turn up at a world tournament, get a few lucky wins, end up world champion? And you would consider that Fair? As Ive said before, i dont compete, so i cant imagine anyone else would be too chuffed.

Also, some of us (this includes me), only like our Pokemon to be our OT

Me too. Although i change my trainer name for each game, just so i can, at a glance, see which game it came from.

Many players take dietary supplements

I'd have thought this was similar to the Pokerus?

 

[EmpoleonProd]

So, youre saying that i could, theoretically, hack some perfect IV'd with amazeballs movesets but-still-legal pokemon, turn up at a world tournament, get a few lucky wins, end up world champion? And you would consider that Fair? As Ive said before, i dont compete, so i cant imagine anyone else would be too chuffed.

I'd have thought this was similar to the Pokerus?

Yes, you could. It's not like it hasn't been done before. I'd say every world champion has "cheated" in some way. Like in the case of that Aegislash in the dream ball, the parent was quite obviously hacked, even if the offspring is legal. Most 5 and 6IV Dittos are hacked, getting a normal one that way would be extremely rare... The chances of catching one, the easiest way is the Friend Safari, where 2 IVs are guaranteed to be 31, so the chances of catching a 6IV one is... 32^4, so 1/1,048,576. You could get 256 shinies before you find that Ditto, and with those odds you may as well enter the Powerball, or stand outside in a storm and wait to be struck by lightning. Do you honestly think all the champions in the world go through the hundreds of thousands of hours it would take to legitimately catch that? There was some sort of RNG abuse glitch in Gen III-V that would let you find one easier, but that's abusing a glitch, and some of these players get these "from friends" who hack it. Everyone who plays Pokemon competitively is, in one way or another, a hacker.

You could argue that my analogy is similar to Pokerus, the point I was trying to get across is that the end result is the same, it's the morality and effort put into the method of choice leading to that result, but it all leads back to the same identical end point.

 

[Almonds]

Yes, you could. It's not like it hasn't been done before. I'd say every world champion has "cheated" in some way. Like in the case of that Aegislash in the dream ball, the parent was quite obviously hacked, even if the offspring is legal. Most 5 and 6IV Dittos are hacked, getting a normal one that way would be extremely rare... The chances of catching one, the easiest way is the Friend Safari, where 2 IVs are guaranteed to be 31, so the chances of catching a 6IV one is... 32^4, so 1/1,048,576. You could get 256 shinies before you find that Ditto, and with those odds you may as well enter the Powerball, or stand outside in a storm and wait to be struck by lightning. Do you honestly think all the champions in the world go through the hundreds of thousands of hours it would take to legitimately catch that? There was some sort of RNG abuse glitch in Gen III-V that would let you find one easier, but that's abusing a glitch, and some of these players get these "from friends" who hack it. Everyone who plays Pokemon competitively is, in one way or another, a hacker.

You could argue that my analogy is similar to Pokerus, the point I was trying to get across is that the end result is the same, it's the morality and effort put into the method of choice leading to that result, but it all leads back to the same identical end point.

Several questions popped in my mind while reading this thread:

- Does sportsmanship and the concept of fair-play apply to online gaming - a.k.a., e-Sports? (If you don't know what an e-Sport is, look it up on Google. Games like Starcraft, League of Legends, and other online games have had (and some still have) international competitions with players getting sponsers and payment for being a professional gamer)
- Are professional gamers considered as athletes that deserve respect just as any other athletes who compete in analogue competitions? Can they be considered as celebrities, famous people that can be other people's role models or idolized figures?
- Can Pokemon Battle Competitions count as an e-Sport?
- Can a Pokemon Gamer (although technically not considered a professional gamer atm) be considered an athlete in the e-Sports world?
- Is a cheater and a non-cheater both respectable on the same level as long as they have the same skill?
- If a professional gamer is found out to be a cheater, do you think they should still participate in official competitions or be banned (temporarily or permanently)? Remember, athletes are generally banned from competing if they are found cheating in any way, and penalties range from fines to losing their jobs as athletes, or even serving in prison. Should it be different for professional gaming?
- Should cheating and hacking be an every day thing as long as it's not illegal?
- Should cheating and hacking be encouraged as long as it's not illegal?
- What's your opinion of gaming morality?

And before anyone tackles me with "but Pokemon Gaming isn't anything professional. Y so Srs?": please keep in mind that the games have been around for a long time, the competitions have been around for a long time, and there are influential people related to Pokemon gaming - both online and offline. Even if it can be considered non-professional, there's still things to think about.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Several questions popped in my mind while reading this thread:

- Does sportsmanship and the concept of fair-play apply to online gaming - a.k.a., e-Sports? (If you don't know what an e-Sport is, look it up on Google. Games like Starcraft, League of Legends, and other online games have had (and some still have) international competitions with players getting sponsers and payment for being a professional gamer)
- Are professional gamers considered as athletes that deserve respect just as any other athletes who compete in analogue competitions? Can they be considered as celebrities, famous people that can be other people's role models or idolized figures?
- Can Pokemon Battle Competitions count as an e-Sport?
- Can a Pokemon Gamer (although technically not considered a professional gamer atm) be considered an athlete in the e-Sports world?
- Is a cheater and a non-cheater both respectable on the same level as long as they have the same skill?
- If a professional gamer is found out to be a cheater, do you think they should still participate in official competitions or be banned (temporarily or permanently)? Remember, athletes are generally banned from competing if they are found cheating in any way, and penalties range from fines to losing their jobs as athletes, or even serving in prison. Should it be different for professional gaming?
- Should cheating and hacking be an every day thing as long as it's not illegal?
- Should cheating and hacking be encouraged as long as it's not illegal?
- What's your opinion of gaming morality?

And before anyone tackles me with "but Pokemon Gaming isn't anything professional. Y so Srs?": please keep in mind that the games have been around for a long time, the competitions have been around for a long time, and there are influential people related to Pokemon gaming - both online and offline. Even if it can be considered non-professional, there's still things to think about.

Pokemon is not and cannot be considered an eSport BECAUSE of the whole breeding thing. A real eSport has every character unlocked on every setup when you show up - you don't need to spend hours at home to be able to play Ken in a Street Fighter tournament or Luigi in a Smash Bros Tournament because when you show up, they're there, in the setup, waiting for you. Even unlocks like Jigglypuff in Melee and DLC like Bayonetta or Guile in Smash 4 or SFV will be available to play on tournament setups - so players don't even have to buy DLC.(of course, it's highly recommended so that you can practice). The point is, 100% of gaming hours for an eSport is PLAYING THE ESPORT- you don't have to breed your Champion in League of Legends, you don't have to spend hours playing a sports minigame in Hearthstone before you can use your new Legendary card in a Ranked match. All REAL eSports share one characteristic - a low entry barrier. Pokemon does not have that.

 

[Muur]

Some people don't care for Showdown, they WANT to compete in real, official tournaments in-game but not go through the days and weeks it can take to get the right Pokemon.

Then shame for them. Want to compete in an official tournament? then put in the time. You don't get to be in the Premier League by just cbaing through the lower divisions first because "5+ years is too much effort to get into division one! can we give you like 500 million and get there right now ?"

 

[Zkat]

I don't mind cheating as long as it's a Pokemon that could exist in the game without cheating (I've gotten 6IV Dittos on wonder trade before, so sometimes it can be really helpful). And if it can't exist in the game without cheating, just don't use it online.

Personally, I don't like to cheat (unless using the 6IV Dittos for breeding counts as cheating but I don't think it does). The only time I've cheated is by using QR codes to get a few event legendaries I missed out on, and I don't really use them.

 

[Lufenium]

As someone who didn't have the patience to hunt for Feebas, and didn't have the means to attend events back in Gen III, I did use a cheat cartridges to get mythical Pokemon. It was the only way I ever got any of them back then.

So if you're hacking perfectly legal Pokemon then yeah, I'd say it's ok. It is essentially just a shortcut alternative to breeding and people can't really complain as it doesn't really give you an unfair advantage.

That said I think making hacked Pokemon like Sturdy Shedinja just for fun is fine. Using them online against other people is a dick move, though. Don't do that.

 

[BryDeca]

I am completely on board with most people here, In my view it's the players choice if they want to add pokemon they have that but I think as long as it's able to be in game at some point then yeah cheat it in. If you are cheating and never use online heck go all out and have massive team with moves that shouldn't be there, But If you play online again I think it should be as long as it can be found in the game with them moves/gender and so on just not a lower level than it as able to learn it, If that makes sense.

Personally I have never cheated or hacked, I have thought about it but never done it, That being said I have used the nugget glitch in Pokemon FireRed/LeafGreen but that's already in the game I have used some of the glitches.

But to be honest it's your game if you want to cheat, Then cheat, If you don't want t, Don't. We all have our own views on things, you shouldn't really care what anyone else thinks to be honest we are all our own person and understand what we are and what we can do in pokemon

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I never cheated the game due to having none of those cheating devices and I wouldn't do it ever. The games are design the way they are and shouldn't be tampered with.

 

[Alolan Coconut]

I think I can agree with almost everyone in this thread in that it's fine as long as the Pokemon is legitametely obtainable, in case you want to use it online. But I got to say: It's a shame it exists. I thought, and putting the emphasis on thought since I don't battle a lot online, that the whole point of online battling was showing other people what a good competitor/trainer you are. cheating perfect pokemon kind of takes that away in my opinion. maybe it's old fashioned, but if you want the perfect Pokemon: train your ass off. the big but(t) in this, is that practically everyone is doing it. So as long as there is no controversy within the online battle community, I think it should be fine.

Oflline cheating is your own choice. It's your game, so you should do with it what you want. Recently I used an AR code to get a Growlithe in my Platinum playthrough.

 

[MrMeowPuss]

I do make my own Pokemon for offline mode since I almost never play online. When I do make mine, I actually don't even give my Pokemon full perfect IV's.

They way I like to do it is just get Pokemon that I would usually have to obtain through trading. At the start of Gen 6 it was much easier to trade but once we could transfer Pokemon from old gen, we started getting the typical "Eevee for Level 10 Mewtwo". If I want to have all 3 starters for my journey, this is my easy way of obtaining them from the start.

 

[Necrozma]

I disapprove of cheating if you're using it to generate Pokemon for competitive online battles. That would be truly unfair compared to people who actually work hard to EV/IV train their Pokemon.

I have nothing against cheating in casual gameplay though, it harms no one and if it makes the game more enjoyable for you, go right ahead.

 

[jeremyml]

When it comes to cheating in Pokemon I think it is wrong. Before I decided to completely stop cheating/hacking/using pokegen I would play on Battle Spot in 5th generation and XY with completely cheated Pokemon. Also I would trade hacked Pokemon on the GTS and Wonder Trade thinking that it was okay. The thing that made me realize that it is not okay to cheat is how much time and effort people put into playing Pokemon.

 

[Youngster_Jack]

If its something that could be legitimately possibly for me. maybe. I will honestly say though that I really hate hacking a lot. If you can get something legitmately, I still believe in going the legit route. I think working for it gives you the satisfaction that using a cheat device never will. I never use cheat devices. I have no use for them, if I was gonna battle Id go get the Pokemon legitimately same with shinies. Even unobtainable shinies I refuse to hack, I just accept the fact they are unavailable. Hacking takes whats speacial about them away completely, they lose their value that way.

I absolutely hate when people hack for Pokemon and put them on Wonder Trade and the GTS because essentially you're kind of forcing the hacks on people who very likely dont want them. In normal trades, they should only be traded if the person knows beforehand. As for friendly battles, I think the other person should know too.

Completely agree on the idea of falsely generating mons takes away from their value. It takes away from the whole game in general if you think about it...I'd never choose to decide and illegally create a mon I'm desperately trying to obtain, it is part of the game to work for valuable things such as well bred Pokemon. The more time and effort you put into creating your own team from legitimate methods, the more you enjoy the game and the battling aspect itself, IMO. Hacking just seems a bit...selfish.