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Controversial opinions

The Eeveelution who says "Rawr!"
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Technically speaking, he did lose to Siebold in the first Mega Evolution special, but that was his only on-screen defeat if I recall correctly and they spent the last chuck of XY making Alain and his Charizard ridiculously overpowered and broken. The fact that he only used two Pokemon up until the Kalos League finals still frustrates me to no end.

While he does remind of me Tobias in regards to how he was ultimately there to defeat Ash, I wouldn't say that he's Tobias done right. That is mainly because I still find Alain way more frustrating than Tobias. Yeah, Tobias came out of nowhere with overpowered Legendary Pokemon on his team to sweep the Sinnoh League, but that never really bothered me. As cool as it would have been for Ash to win the Sinnoh League, there just wasn't any time for that. They had to wrap things up and move towards BW. I understand why it was so infamous, but it was a better way to handle Ash's defeat after he finally defeated Paul than if he lost to a regular trainer. He went out in a blaze of glory and was the honorary runner up for defeating his Darkrai. Alain had a backstory and motivation built up through the Mega Evolution specials, but he just became more boring for me due to how broken he was and unlike with Tobias, I couldn't just write it off as Legendary Pokemon being automatically overpowered. It was just clear favortisim for the Charizard line. Plus, I don't think that winning the Kalos League really mattered in the end for Alain or affected his storyline nearly as much as the Team Flare arc did. I'm fine with Tobias simply because he is designed to be overpowered from the start to kick Ash out of the Sinnoh League, while the screentime for Alain made me dislike him because of how overpowered he eventually became.
Okay, maybe I should have said "Tobias with a backstory". And yeah, I don't mind the way Ash lost to Tobias, and Alain definitely could have used a loss as a wake-up call, since his pursuit of power was clearly consuming him.
 
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I don't know... even if Tobias had a backstory it just seems ridiculous to imagine that they would shove in someone with a Darkrai and a Latios just to make Ash lose because they couldn't come up with a full team like they did with Alain.
 
At least you tried...
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Technically speaking, he did lose to Siebold in the first Mega Evolution special, but that was his only on-screen defeat if I recall correctly and they spent the last chuck of XY making Alain and his Charizard ridiculously overpowered and broken. The fact that he only used two Pokemon up until the Kalos League finals still frustrates me to no end.

While he does remind of me Tobias in regards to how he was ultimately there to defeat Ash, I wouldn't say that he's Tobias done right. That is mainly because I still find Alain way more frustrating than Tobias. Yeah, Tobias came out of nowhere with overpowered Legendary Pokemon on his team to sweep the Sinnoh League, but that never really bothered me. As cool as it would have been for Ash to win the Sinnoh League, there just wasn't any time for that. They had to wrap things up and move towards BW. I understand why it was so infamous, but it was a better way to handle Ash's defeat after he finally defeated Paul than if he lost to a regular trainer. He went out in a blaze of glory and was the honorary runner up for defeating his Darkrai. Alain had a backstory and motivation built up through the Mega Evolution specials, but he just became more boring for me due to how broken he was and unlike with Tobias, I couldn't just write it off as Legendary Pokemon being automatically overpowered. It was just clear favortisim for the Charizard line. Plus, I don't think that winning the Kalos League really mattered in the end for Alain or affected his storyline nearly as much as the Team Flare arc did. I'm fine with Tobias simply because he is designed to be overpowered from the start to kick Ash out of the Sinnoh League, while the screentime for Alain made me dislike him because of how overpowered he eventually became.
I get this. I think Tobias is a worse character since he was so hilariously, painfully OP, and not even pretending to be anything but a plot device, but I hate Alain more, so to speak, because of all the meta controversies surrounding the Kalos loss. I was also well and truly sick of Charizard by that point, especially since he was always my least liked Kanto starter.
 
The Eeveelution who says "Rawr!"
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The only thing that really bothers me about Alain was his nearly flawless win record and especially his Charizard's win record. Charizard may be my favorite Kanto starter, but I don't like too perfect characters. Alain had his flaws for sure, but the way his Charizard steamrolled everyone before it was a bit too flawless to my taste. Even an Elite Four member, which have previously required a Champion to beat them in the anime, wasn't enough to defeat him when he went up against one for the second time. Kinda makes me feel annoyed that Lysandre had to interrupt Alain's match with Steven, because Steven was more than likely going to hand Alain a loss.
 
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I don't know... even if Tobias had a backstory it just seems ridiculous to imagine that they would shove in someone with a Darkrai and a Latios just to make Ash lose because they couldn't come up with a full team like they did with Alain.
Honestly, it felt like they made Alain's team at the last minute. Up until his second battle with Ash, we didn't even know if he had any other Pokemon besides his Charizard. Despite being featured throughout the first two years of XY through the Mega Evolution specials, there was no indication that he had more than one Pokemon, let alone a full team. I don't really see how that's much better than Tobias' team. I don't think too many fans remember any of his Pokemon besides Mega Charizard X.

I get this. I think Tobias is a worse character since he was so hilariously, painfully OP, and not even pretending to be anything but a plot device, but I hate Alain more, so to speak, because of all the meta controversies surrounding the Kalos loss. I was also well and truly sick of Charizard by that point, especially since he was always my least liked Kanto starter.
Charizard is my favorite Kanto starter, but even I was getting tired of the blatant Charizard favortisim with Alain's Mega Charizard X. It just became so overpowered all of a sudden and there wasn't an easy justification for it like Tobias's Legendary Pokemon. I can understand being more annoyed with Tobias since he was basically just a roadblock to prevent Ash from winning the Sinnoh League, but Alain just doesn't seem like a significant improvement to me. He's Tobias if he was a supporting character in DP that we were supposed to care about and whatever investment I had in Alain disappeared the moment he defeated ten trainers in a row, including an Elite 4 member.

The only thing that really bothers me about Alain was his nearly flawless win record and especially his Charizard's win record. Charizard may be my favorite Kanto starter, but I don't like too perfect characters. Alain had his flaws for sure, but the way his Charizard steamrolled everyone before it was a bit too flawless to my taste. Even an Elite Four member, which have previously required a Champion to beat them in the anime, wasn't enough to defeat him when he went up against one for the second time. Kinda makes me feel annoyed that Lysandre had to interrupt Alain's match with Steven, because Steven was more than likely going to hand Alain a loss.
There was also how Alain won all eight badges he needed for the Kalos League in a seemingly fast manner. Time is really weird in the anime and he would be able to travel around potentially faster than Ash, but he still won his way through the Gyms and Kalos League not because he wanted to win it, but because he wanted to face Ash again in battle. This was seriously frustrating to me not only because of how it made Alain even more broken, but it was also something that they could easily have fixed. They could have had Alain going through some Gyms before meeting Ash. He would need to get his Pokemon to be stronger in order to fight more Mega Pokemon and at least two Kalos Gym Leaders had Mega Pokemon on them, so it wouldn't have been a stretch to just have Alain challenging a few Gyms during his travels. I understand that they wanted Ash to inspire Alain to compete, but it just made their rivalry and Alain's involvement in the Kalos League feel like a last minute addition more than anything else.
 
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@Acrobatic Crobat
Sorry, I should have been clearer: I like him in spite of all that, which I know is an unpopular opinion (to say the least).You’re completely right that it was a piece of lazy writing, unfair to Ash and what he had achieved, and that Tobias doesn’t have much of a personality beyond the writers making him powerful for the sake of the plot.
 
The Eeveelution who says "Rawr!"
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There was also how Alain won all eight badges he needed for the Kalos League in a seemingly fast manner. Time is really weird in the anime and he would be able to travel around potentially faster than Ash, but he still won his way through the Gyms and Kalos League not because he wanted to win it, but because he wanted to face Ash again in battle. This was seriously frustrating to me not only because of how it made Alain even more broken, but it was also something that they could easily have fixed. They could have had Alain going through some Gyms before meeting Ash. He would need to get his Pokemon to be stronger in order to fight more Mega Pokemon and at least two Kalos Gym Leaders had Mega Pokemon on them, so it wouldn't have been a stretch to just have Alain challenging a few Gyms during his travels. I understand that they wanted Ash to inspire Alain to compete, but it just made their rivalry and Alain's involvement in the Kalos League feel like a last minute addition more than anything else.
Kinda like how Kalos League itself was also pretty rushed. Most of the preliminary round is not shown, and then the next episode suddenly jumps to Ash winning his way to the semifinals.
 
At least you tried...
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Honestly, it felt like they made Alain's team at the last minute. Up until his second battle with Ash, we didn't even know if he had any other Pokemon besides his Charizard. Despite being featured throughout the first two years of XY through the Mega Evolution specials, there was no indication that he had more than one Pokemon, let alone a full team. I don't really see how that's much better than Tobias' team. I don't think too many fans remember any of his Pokemon besides Mega Charizard X.

Charizard is my favorite Kanto starter, but even I was getting tired of the blatant Charizard favortisim with Alain's Mega Charizard X. It just became so overpowered all of a sudden and there wasn't an easy justification for it like Tobias's Legendary Pokemon. I can understand being more annoyed with Tobias since he was basically just a roadblock to prevent Ash from winning the Sinnoh League, but Alain just doesn't seem like a significant improvement to me. He's Tobias if he was a supporting character in DP that we were supposed to care about and whatever investment I had in Alain disappeared the moment he defeated ten trainers in a row, including an Elite 4 member.

There was also how Alain won all eight badges he needed for the Kalos League in a seemingly fast manner. Time is really weird in the anime and he would be able to travel around potentially faster than Ash, but he still won his way through the Gyms and Kalos League not because he wanted to win it, but because he wanted to face Ash again in battle. This was seriously frustrating to me not only because of how it made Alain even more broken, but it was also something that they could easily have fixed. They could have had Alain going through some Gyms before meeting Ash. He would need to get his Pokemon to be stronger in order to fight more Mega Pokemon and at least two Kalos Gym Leaders had Mega Pokemon on them, so it wouldn't have been a stretch to just have Alain challenging a few Gyms during his travels. I understand that they wanted Ash to inspire Alain to compete, but it just made their rivalry and Alain's involvement in the Kalos League feel like a last minute addition more than anything else.
Come to think of it, I believe before it was confirmed Alain was in the league some people believed he wouldn't be specifically because of not showing enough other Pokémon for him and how little time there was for him to win the badges.

I've read--not sure if this is confirmed or just a theory--that Alain was OP because he was supposed to be a representative of the older part of the fan base.
If so that makes me, as part of said older part of the fan base, feel guilty by association.
Either way, it's sort of funny that when they decided to give a league roadblock more characterization and buildup it resulted in one of the most hated ones, though a lot of that is the false hype over a win. If the episode's Japanese title had been "Not this time either! We love Lizardon!" the internet probably wouldn't have exploded as badly.
 
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Another thing about Alain (or his Charizard) being powerful: They did show that he was on Elite Four level but not Campion level through thr ME specials. Alain won against Malva after getting through 9 consecutive battles, lost against Siebold, dealt almost no damage to Steven. So even though they showered him with Charizard favoritism, it is still something we know about compared to Tobias who we really know nothing about.
 
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I've said it before but I think Tobias was handled brilliantly in DP. With the Kalos league, everyone really thought Ash would win only to be faced with disappointment when he lost. With the Sinnoh League though, they showed the unbeatable Darkrai right off the bat so we all knew Ash was going to lose to him. What we didn't know was that Ash would defeat that Darkrai and even a Latios to boot. Thus Ash defeats his rival and even further surpasses everyone's expectation of him by holding his own against actual legendaries. No matter how you look at it, the Sinnoh league was a massive triumph and at the end it didn't even feel like Ash had really lost. Tobias didn't even have any usable Pokemon on the field at the end, so it didn't even feel like his Pokemon directly bested Ash's either.

XY subverted expectation in a bad way, DP subverted expectation in a good way.

The writers were clearly forced to make Ash lose when they really wanted him to win. Tobias was a plot device created to give the feeling that Ash won, or at least deserved to win. After all, losing to a hacker doesn't really count, right?
 
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At least you tried...
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The writers were clearly forced to make Ash lose when they really wanted him to win. Tobias was a plot device created to give the feeling that Ash won, or at least deserved to win. After all, losing to a hacker doesn't really count, right?
We learned some interesting behind the scenes stuff from Takeshi Shudo, and I really hope we learn more from some of the others writers at some point. The theory he was going to win Sinnoh but it was shut down by a higher up feels plausible when you look at the Champion's League being introduced and how blatantly DEM Tobias is, but getting confirmation one way or the other would be nice.

I'm still amused by the (probably unintended) interpretation that Tobias is a stand-in for gameshark users.
 
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We learned some interesting behind the scenes stuff from Takeshi Shudo, and I really hope we learn more from some of the others writers at some point. The theory he was going to win Sinnoh but it was shut down by a higher up feels plausible when you look at the Champion's League being introduced and how blatantly DEM Tobias is, but getting confirmation one way or the other would be nice.

I'm still amused by the (probably unintended) interpretation that Tobias is a stand-in for gameshark users.
I always thought Tobias was meant to be a stand-in for the player who goes through the Elite 4 and Champion using Legendaries , especially considering that at that point in the games you would have acquired multiple by that point.
 
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I always thought Tobias was meant to be a stand-in for the player who goes through the Elite 4 and Champion using Legendaries , especially considering that at that point in the games you would have acquired multiple by that point.
Or he might just be a representation of your average hacker who cheats his way through link battles. I'm surprised they didn't give him Spiritomb or Sableye with Wonder Guard instead of Latios.
 
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Or he might just be a representation of your average hacker who cheats his way through link battles. I'm surprised they didn't give him Spiritomb or Sableye with Wonder Guard instead of Latios.
I don't see how he was a representation of that considering that the two Pokemon that he used were fair game at the Sinnoh League. There was even a Heatran at the same tournament so it's not like Tobias was the only trainer using legendaries there.

On this subject I don't think that he was meant to represent anything to begin with. In my book he was just a hastily made character that the writing staff used to make Ash's loss more realistic and less time consuming than having him battle some average trainer in a six on six battle.
 
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There was even a Heatran at the same tournament so it's not like Tobias was the only trainer using legendaries there.
I kinda wish they went somewhere with that guy. You’d think there would at least be people commenting about that trainer and a bunch of others making bets about the winner in a Darkrai vs Heatran scenario.

Instead, he just tripped into the nearest plothole.
 
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I kinda wish they went somewhere with that guy. You’d think there would at least be people commenting about that trainer and a bunch of others making bets about the winner in a Darkrai vs Heatran scenario.

Instead, he just tripped into the nearest plothole.
I read a theory that whomever put Heatran there didn't realize he was a legendary and just grabbed a random Pokémon.
This was the same series with that one scene where they drew Pikachu both on Ash's shoulder and walking next to him so I wouldn't rule out that sort of error.
 
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I read a theory that whomever put Heatran there didn't realize he was a legendary and just grabbed a random Pokémon.
This was the same series with that one scene where they drew Pikachu both on Ash's shoulder and walking next to him so I wouldn't rule out that sort of error.
I know that errors can happen and the twin Pikachu thing is an example of that (I laughed so much when I saw that scene in the Magnezone filler), but I really think it's a stretch to assume that Heatran was an animation error. I mean even the most underpaid, inexperienced animator couldn't have been that clueless imo.
 
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I read a theory that whomever put Heatran there didn't realize he was a legendary and just grabbed a random Pokémon.
This was the same series with that one scene where they drew Pikachu both on Ash's shoulder and walking next to him so I wouldn't rule out that sort of error.
I mean, Pikachu is a tiny pokemon, and both of the glitch twins were in positions he usually occupies, so it’s understandable... accidentally drawing in a mythological giant lava cockroach into a scene is a bit of a stretch.
 
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