Controversial opinions

[Daren]

The decision to make Team Flare important instead of the League was it's own problem since Ash didn't interact with them at all for about two years and spent most his time trying to get into the Kalos league. In a lot of ways I find their decision to uses the specials to set up the "real" plotline then jam it into the main series baffling.
I really think the theory they were reusing their plans for the Team Plasma finale are pretty likely.

Although Team Flare is probably the most praised story part of XY the series would probably be better remembered if they were cut entirely and the episodes used for a larger Kalos League that Ash won in the end.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Nah. There would've been even more debate if the match was interrupted.

Debate, but Ash being an honourable title in Kalos would've been better than what happened. The internet was NOT a good place to be at that time. The match getting interrupted and Ash getting a special title would've been more than enough to salvage some positivity out of it.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Debate, but Ash being an honourable title in Kalos would've been better than what happened. The internet was NOT a good place to be at that time. The match getting interrupted and Ash getting a special title would've been more than enough to salvage some positivity out of it.

He still received recognition with how things turned out.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

He still received recognition with how things turned out.

The Honour of Kalos is obviously something that would stick since it’s something he could actually take home. The kalos crisis got recognised for 3 episodes and then forgotten.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

The Honour of Kalos is obviously something that would stick since it’s something he could actually take home. The kalos crisis got recognised for 3 episodes and then forgotten.

They still got medals. And I doubt it would've lasted that long if the medal's name was different. Especially as I see the medals they got being references to the Honor of Kalos.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

They could’ve prevented the entire Kalos debacle by having team Flare interrupt the match and then execute their plan. There ends up being no champion and Ash is given the honour of Kalos.

Hm. Interesting take on that. Can we elaborate on that, actually? What WOULD be the fandom's reaction if something like that were to happen? I doubt people would be as salty and claim that Ash was "robbed" but I don't think they would just begrudgingly move on either. And would it affect the ratings of the anime by any chance? Or heck, wouldn't it be even MORE disappointing of an outcome if that were to happen: all this hype for a league finish and we don't even GET one. Though, "honor of Kalos" is an interesting idea: maybe he gets a title of "honorary Champion"?

 

[Daren]

Hm. Interesting take on that. Can we elaborate on that, actually? What WOULD be the fandom's reaction if something like that were to happen? I doubt people would be as salty and claim that Ash was "robbed" but I don't think they would just begrudgingly move on either.

We can really only guess, but I think it would depend on how the match was going; if it looked like Ash was going to win but the interruption stopped it I think it would be more subdued; people could more easily argue his miniarc has meaning if he did surpass Alain but they weren't able/willing to give him a league win and cut it off. There'd still be some, but less. I can think of a comparsion but it's very spoilery for a different series:

Spoiler: Major Avatar The Last Airbender finale spoilers

There was some controversy over Katara defeating Azula instead of Zuko, but they made clear Zuko could have won and Zuko's improvement arc still bore fruit.

And would it affect the ratings of the anime by any chance?

Do we know for sure if the actual controversy caused a ratings drop? I know some people pointed to Nintendo having a stock drop right after but I always thought that was a coincidence. It seems to have mostly been a major blow for the show's reputation rather than it's profitability.

 

[JinksChow]

Do we know for sure if the actual controversy caused a ratings drop? I know some people pointed to Nintendo having a stock drop right after but I always thought that was a coincidence. It seems to have mostly been a major blow for the show's reputation rather than it's profitability.

宝可梦 XY动画收视率列表 - 神奇宝贝百科，关于宝可梦的百科全书

wiki.52poke.com

Average ratings for Lumiose Conference (XY125-XY131): 2.56

Average ratings for Flare Arc (XY132-XY136): 3.34

宝可梦 太阳＆月亮动画收视率列表 - 神奇宝贝百科，关于宝可梦的百科全书

wiki.52poke.com

Average ratings for Pokemon SM before timeslot change (SM001-SM090): 3.59

Average ratings for Pokemon SM after timeslot change (SM091-SM146): ~2.06 (Ratings for SM137-SM145 unavailable)

We all know the real reason for ratings dropping, and it's got nothing to do with Ash losing the Kalos League...

 

[Daren]

宝可梦 XY动画收视率列表 - 神奇宝贝百科，关于宝可梦的百科全书

wiki.52poke.com

Average ratings for Lumiose Conference (XY125-XY131): 2.56

Average ratings for Flare Arc (XY132-XY136): 3.34

宝可梦 太阳＆月亮动画收视率列表 - 神奇宝贝百科，关于宝可梦的百科全书

wiki.52poke.com

Average ratings for Pokemon SM before timeslot change (SM001-SM090): 3.59

Average ratings for Pokemon SM after timeslot change (SM091-SM146): ~2.06 (Ratings for SM137-SM145 unavailable)

We all know the real reason for ratings dropping, and it's got nothing to do with Ash losing the Kalos League...

Thanks for the data!

I am...a bit surprised by the ratings going up that much during the Flare crisis. I guess the positive buzz around it worked better than I realized.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

This feels pretty much like XY, SM. Less loses, easy fights. I maen come on, during XY and SM he lost maybe 8 times? In JN twice, I repeat twice if you count vs Leon and Bea and he is in place 184.

 

[JinksChow]

This feels pretty much like XY, SM. Less loses, easy fights. I maen come on, during XY and SM he lost maybe 8 times? In JN twice, I repeat twice if you count vs Leon and Bea and he is in place 184.

If you're counting losses, don't forget the two barely onscreen losses for Ash in JN036

 

[KenzeyEevee]

If you're counting losses, don't forget the two barely onscreen losses for Ash in JN036

Oh yeah haha

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

Here's a big one:

Ash is better than Red.

 

[A Wild Luxray]

Ash's record in Journeys is about 9-5-1 I think. His wins came from Visquez, Kricketina, the Meganium, the Electabuzz, that Clawitzer, Korrina, Chairman Rose, that Gurdurr, and Rinto. His losses come from Bea, Champion Leon, Rinto, then those two losses in that horrible episode JN036. Then he has one draw against Bea.

 

[Enzo]

This is so something a bit more ''meta'': I don't mind dubbed anime. It's not just about Pokemon, but others as well. I genuinely don't mind it. I actually prefer the dub, because I can understand what they are saying right away. I do agree the dub can take some good stuff out however, like the music for example.

I haven't really seen this one in the Pokemon fandom, but the way others believe firmly that they are better than other people because they watch the original/japanese version is so... ??? Like,,, good for you I guess? I swear you are not special.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

This is so something a bit more ''meta'': I don't mind dubbed anime. It's not just about Pokemon, but others as well. I genuinely don't mind it. I actually prefer the dub, because I can understand what they are saying right away. I do agree the dub can take some good stuff out however, like the music for example.

I haven't really seen this one in the Pokemon fandom, but the way others believe firmly that they are better than other people because they watch the original/japanese version is so... ??? Like,,, good for you I guess? I swear you are not special.

With Pokémon, the dub's quality has downgraded for me over time. Mainly because of the dub music.

 

[Enzo]

With Pokémon, the dub's quality has downgraded for me over time. Mainly because of the dub music.

Oh, I agree in that. The music is not awful, but it's a severe downgrade from the og composition. But the voice acting is not bad. There's the occasional hiccup here and there *cofbutchcof*, but it's actually pretty well done and enjoyable.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I prefer the dub. I just grew up watching the dub and that’s what I’m used to. I tried the sub and it just wasn’t the same.

 

[Galactic_V]

I haven't really seen this one in the Pokemon fandom, but the way others believe firmly that they are better than other people because they watch the original/japanese version is so... ??? Like,,, good for you I guess? I swear you are not special.

To tell the truth I used to hear it a lot during the late 2000s, especially with Naruto when it was at its peak. Even though I preferred the Japanese version, I was one of the few to always say that the dub was not as bad as everyone was saying it was.

Nowadays I see it doesn't happen as often, or as extreme, as back then.

IMO what is better is always so subjective. People'll watch whatever in the language they're used to. I was used to watch Naruto dubbed at first, but then got accostumed to the original and the dub just didn't sound the same anymore. Same with Pokemon.

 

[Orchid]

I grew up with the dub too, but I actually like both the dub and sub about equally. I've never really thought one was objectively better than the other, they each have their pros and cons so it really just depends on what I feel like watching that day. It's the same for a lot of anime, I think it's just all about preference.

I do agree though that the dub music can be a downgrade at times. My biggest pet peeve is when they put in music where there wasn't any before, and it totally throws off the mood of what was originally a quiet moment...