Controversial opinions

[PkmnTrainerV]

I was fine with Goh getting Suicune, because 1) I felt that he earned it in the end, 2) he wasn't selfish about wanting to keep it and it was Suicune's choice in the end, and, most importantly of all, 3) Suicune didn't stay at the lab, which means that it's not going to be always accessible to him and thus make him OP.

I mean Ash can get a legendary under similar conditions. Nebby was basically all that but without a formal capture.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

The dead cities make me sad because episode 2 was a great example that they can make it work. A Lugia shows up at the harbor, a bunch of trainers obviously gravitate towards it and tag team it, only to be organically written out by getting trounced by the legendary so Ash and Goh could get focused on.

It went from that to nobody making a move to rescue people from Flygon’s city encompassing Sandstorm, Castelia being totally devoid of people, both Zapdos and Mewtwo sending off energy signals that absolutely nobody detects, pokemon centers in big cities only having one or another client in the middle of the day...

Really, when did this horrid worldbuilding become acceptable?

 

[RetroPokeFan]

The dead cities make me sad because episode 2 was a great example that they can make it work. A Lugia shows up at the harbor, a bunch of trainers obviously gravitate towards it and tag team it, only to be organically written out by getting trounced by the legendary so Ash and Goh could get focused on.

It went from that to nobody making a move to rescue people from Flygon’s city encompassing Sandstorm, Castelia being totally devoid of people, both Zapdos and Mewtwo sending off energy signals that absolutely nobody detects, pokemon centers in big cities only having one or another client in the middle of the day...

Really, when did this horrid worldbuilding become acceptable?

I guess the world of Journeys really has now become Fallout... except without the post-apocalyptic stuff.

 

[FluffleFi]

I'd honestly be all for Ash catching a Legendary, but only if it was Latias from the Heroes movie as she could easily be called upon like Charizard. Buuut on the other hand, the team he has now barely gets any screen time, so what're the chances any Legend he catches will get any?

 

[RetroPokeFan]

Buuut on the other hand, the team he has now barely gets any screen time, so what're the chances any Legend he catches will get any?

Zero since he sure won't bet getting any.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I've brought up my issues with Pokémon Adventures before, but something just happened in the latest chapter that really cements the unequal treatment in between its two main protagonists:

Spoiler: Mild Adventures story spoilers

Both protagonists have taken on the Gym Challenge in Galar, but their matches are featured pretty unevenly. The male protagonist has won all of his Gym battles with relative ease (hasn't lost a single Pokémon during any of those), even in situations where he's been at a disadvantage, and all of them so far (up to Opal) have been heavily focused on, aside from his match with Kabu, which happened off-panel.

As for the female protagonist: her battle with Milo wasn't shown; she barely won against Nessa off-screen, and even then, only because her Scorbunny evolved mid-battle and Nessa's Pokémon being tired from the previous battle; her battle with Kabu was mostly skipped; her battle with Allister was completely skipped; and she lost against Opal, despite having a Gigantamax Toxtricity, despite the male protagonist having managed to beat Opal with a Fighting type.

Hardly equal treatment, wouldn't you say?

 

[Unireon]

Unless those cities are under quarantine.....

Have the animators became lazy or stingy.....

 

[CyberKitten05]

I agree with the general opinion that Tracey was boring in the Orange Islands and wasn't a good replacement for Brock.
BUT, I really liked him as a side character as Oak's assistant, I think it's a character role that makes sense and Tracey is also pretty neat in Chronicles. Professor Oak just kinda feels weird without an assistant, all alone in his lab. Now most of the time when we see him, he's with Delia, and even though I understand that it's because they're fucking, it still kinda feels like Delia is his assistant if anyone is, and I hope they bring Tracey back, even if just as a cameo, or at the very least mention him.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Upon rewatching Ash vs. Kukui, I was reminded of something that I think I forgot to mention during the last discussion about Rowlet on this thread. Namely, how overdramatically Ash's Rowlet's defeat was treated as. Ash and his classmates' reactions to it were held on longer and played up as more tragic than the defeats of Ash's other Pokémon in that same battle. This once again plays to Rowlet being overhyped on the anime, in my opinion.

 

[Sobblelelle]

@FinnishPokéFan92, the person whom I quoted has been pretty vocal about how they don’t have any issues with Go getting legendary Pokémon (specifically Suicune), so I found it weird that it’s fine with Go has a legendary but if Ash were to hypothetically get one he’d be overpowered and win everything.
It becomes weird moreso when we notice that Go is the character who’s having absolutely no problems at all working towards his goal, legendary involved or not.

Ash can catch legendaries sure, however the question is what happens to them afterwards. I don't see any legendary besides the Kubfu line sticking with the protagonists, the rest will likely wander like Suicune (which isn't exactly satisfying depending on who you ask) and maybe come back for a battle or two. Which isn't to say that we couldn't see it from Ash, though I think people expect his pokemon to be a more constant presence. You would be hard pressed to even say off screen training in that case.

Absolutely is also a strong word. There are certainly a number of pokemon that I believe Goh would have had if he faced absolutely no roadblocks. Though I do agree that the majority of his conflicts have been character rather than goal driven, and I assume that that makes it seem to people like everything comes to him too easily. I still think the majority of his accomplishments have been very low stakes, and the show has so far not explored his failures, like with Silcoon, Gorebyss and Zapdos, hopefully the appearance of rival characters will provide a stable source of conflict for both his goal and character to overcome.

I remember an earlier post mentioning how lifeless everything is in Journeys and I personally agree. There just isn't much proper worldbuilding that can make this world come to life. Journeys did this completely fine in the beginning and actually did it just as well as SM did, if not better. However, as time went on, the anime just steadily grew more lifeless. There's less and less people showing up in sceneries, less pokemon in backgrounds, less main cast pokemon in general, and everything seems to needlessly drag on. The fact that Ash's goal-a goal which should involve other trainers-is rarely shown on screen is yet another example of this. The fact that Ash and Goh are researchers but we rarely see them actually doing research is another example of failed worldbuilding.

I think the 'lifelessness' in JN is more of a pokemon problem than a human problem. On the human side of things, I think that episode 48 has seemingly skewed perception of how empty urban environments are of people. It is certainly the case in some episodes, with 48 being the worst offender, but episodes like 38, 40, 42, 57, and even 50 and 58a are more recent episodes that demonstrate that it isn't a series-wide problem. Ash and Goh actually spend the bulk of their time outside of urban centers where it makes sense for there to be no people.

Episodes 1, 2, 5, 21, 22, 32, and 50 are (I think) the episodes with the highest concentration of diverse pokemon species not owned by a trainer which are not captured. While there are other wild pokemon in other episodes that aren't captured it is usually only a couple. Whether the show does this because of the trouble of keeping track pokemon by region and location for the 8 regions that the anime is covering, to limit Goh's catch rate, to ease the animation process, or some other reason, I do not know. We have actually seen a considerable number of species, however, they are usually trainer pokemon.

For a world championship it does feel like there is little in universe recognition outside of episodes solely focused on Ash's battles/ training. I don't tend to watch sports so perhaps the lack of in universe buzz is warranted, but having Ash just talk to someone about the PWC in a random episode, or seeing posters advertising it would make it seem more legitimate.

The lack of research focused episodes is a shame, which is why the Absol episode was an overdue occurrence, and addresses another issue that the series faces which is the sameness of locations. Many locations in the series can be described as 'random forest or urban area X'. Most series take place almost exclusively in a single region with plots spanning multiple episodes, this makes it easier to take inspiration from game locations or craft unique locations to serve the episodes plot. With JN spanning all regions and each episode being self contained, trying to design and explore a unique location likely isn't the priority unless it directly ties into the story of the pokemon in question, eg. Ponyta, Golurk, Aerodactyl, Dragonite, and Absol. We also spend a significant amount of time in or around the lab.

I do agree that outside of Pikachu, and now Grookey, it does feel like there was a sharp drop off in the main cast pokemon appearances post DD arc.

Controversial opinion: You could remove Ash from JN and not lose anything of value currently, except for some nostalgia and companion appearances.

We likely wouldn't follow the PWC, though perhaps Goh would have joined if-
Ash hadn't caused him to be traumatized by battles, and then caused him to begrudgingly approve of them
Dragonair may never have flown
Riolu may never have hatched
Goh would probably have fallen off of Lugia into the sea and died (RIP Goh)
Goh may never have befriended Scorbunny, and therefore never caught any pokemon 'leading up to Mew' (RIP Goh's dreams)
The Bulbasaur and Ivysaur are taken by TRio, same with the Dragonite's, etc.
Golurk is possibly still wild
More damage to the stadium from Dreadnaw
Goh doesn't find Zapdos
Far more angst surrounding Scorbunny and Sobbles captures and evolutions, as well as Raboots goodbye
Goh lacks the strategies to catch Flygon, Mauville is still buried
Korrina doesn't come back just to lose twice
Goh possibly doesn't help Cubone/ manage to get her bone back
We don't meet Lei and the Kiawe fight doesn't happen
Neither does the Iris fight
Suicune is possibly taken by the poachers, or Goh actually calls Jenny and the catch doesn't happen
Matori succeeds (?)
Sonia becomes the second hero of Galar
etc
etc
/s

Most of Goh's development doesn't happen without Ash, and many of his accomplishments are only made through Ash's support.

 

[skiittylalis]

so i had this random thought at 2am last night and thought it would be perfect for this thread........ my controversial opinion is that ash and gohs friendship feels FAR less "organic" than it used to when the series was just starting

first im not saying that goh is a bad friend (though im sure someone will make that conclusion anyway, argh) or that the ash and goh dynamic is boring: i think its actually one of the more unique and fresh dynamics between ash and a travel companion!! idk its kinda hard to put into words but something about how they interact, go about their episodic lives....... it feels REALLY different than the early days of journeys. like example: goh was the shut in shy kid who didnt want to make friends and ash is his first actual friend. wow thats kinds interesting for an ash companion because ash can mentor someone on pokemon, but also friendship!! so a lot of the early journeys days were ash taking the lead and goh kinda watching him. as that same kid when i was younger, how goh acted was really relatable!! sometimes i was too scared to assert myself and let the older kids who took me under their wings do all the hard work. but then for some reason, something changed...... the writers shoved goh onto the same pedestal as ash to make him ashs "equal" in a short time and they pretty much ironed out most (if not all) his flaws regarding his shut in childhood (i know he references it in the drizzle episode, but too little too late imo). now, ash has nothing to teach goh about, and ever since episode 2 goh really hasnt "given" ash anything of his own that i can recall off the top of my head

lets compare ash and dawn, who some will argue was the first true co-protag. ash helped dawn refine her skills as someone who wanted to forge her dream with her pokemon..... obviously since she was a newbie trainer. but that didnt stop dawn from giving back to ash!! the spin dodge in the oreburg gym battle, counter shield...... techniques that ash learned and used for himself. thats what i mean by "giving back" in this sense: two pokemon trainers mutually assisting each other to both improve. yeah, ash has given goh lots of knowledge, but what has goh given ash?? now that goh is almost a forced equal to ash, he doesnt need much mentoring anymore and should be able to give ash at least one little bit of advice. hell, that didnt stop dawn from doing it when she had no ribbons. but he doesnt, and even if goh doesnt like battling it feels really weird for a character of the same importance as the main character to not really assist him the same way ash did to him

add the frequent ooc-ness of ash where he regresses to a 7 year old with his only personality trait being food and the constant background prop role hes assigned to in most of his non focus episodes....... ash is hardly a mentor anymore, and barely there to be a real friend. ash and goh feel lowkey estranged now, like theyre two kids in a classroom who were forced to pair up in a group project. theyre friends at the end of the day, but their dynamic feels so much more hollow than it did at the start which sucks because they had some potential to have one of the better "ash and friends" story. i hope this makes sense this is really hard to explain in words lol

 

[Unireon]

My issue with Satoshi and Gou's relationship, it's that the latter only takes without giving anything.

That kind of bond, quickly degrades into something forced/unhealthy.
I admit that I used the latter adjective a few times before.

Many say that Satoshi and Hikari were the first co-protagonists, because they were in almost every aspect besides that the staff didn't use that term.
That's the reason why she's my favourite travelling companion.
Their bond was alive and you could truly feel whenever it grew.
It was beautifully conveyed in High Touch!, their song.

Gou has given nothing in return to that friendship.
We have to swallow that their bond is growing, hard to believe, maybe off-screen like many other things in this series.

 

[Hidden Mew]

My issue with Satoshi and Gou's relationship, it's that the latter only takes without giving anything.

That kind of bond, quickly degrades into something forced/unhealthy.
I admit that I used the latter adjective a few times before.

Many say that Satoshi and Hikari were the first co-protagonists, because they were in almost every aspect besides that the staff didn't use that term.
That's the reason why she's my favourite travelling companion.
Their bond was alive and you could truly feel whenever it grew.
It was beautifully conveyed in High Touch!, their song.

Gou has given nothing in return to that friendship.
We have to swallow that their bond is growing, hard to believe, maybe off-screen like many other things in this series.

I can understand feeling the bond is forced, but I really don't see how their relationship is unhealthy. Ash does have more impact on Goh's development and story than vice versa, but that doesn't mean that their friendship is unhealthy or that Goh hasn't given anything in return to that friendship. The latter especially doesn't work for me since Goh was pretty key in helping Ash overcome his losing streak. Not liking their friendship or how their dynamic has been handled are understandable issues, but I think saying that it's unhealthy is taking it a step too far for my tastes.

 

[Enzo]

add the frequent ooc-ness of ash where he regresses to a 7 year old with his only personality trait being food and the constant background prop role hes assigned to in most of his non focus episodes....... ash is hardly a mentor anymore, and barely there to be a real friend. ash and goh feel lowkey estranged now, like theyre two kids in a classroom who were forced to pair up in a group project. theyre friends at the end of the day, but their dynamic feels so much more hollow than it did at the start which sucks because they had some potential to have one of the better "ash and friends" story. i hope this makes sense this is really hard to explain in words lol

You know, I kinda of always felt this but I never said anything simply cuz I thought "Hey that's the first episodes, so we need time to truly see their friendship" but now that you mentioned, yeah...

I do agree 100% that Goh doesn't really ''gives'' Ash a lot. And when I say ''gives'' I say: ''What's the impact that Goh left/is leaving Ash with?", or ''How does Goh helps Ash grow character-wise?".

Ash is helping Goh get out of his shell more and actually interact with people and Pokémon, but... for what in return? And that also ties with one of the biggest problems I have with Goh, where it's like, they made Goh this awkward, shy kid who's learning how to interact with the world and doesn't knows how to/doesn't likes battling, which is a excelent premise for an second protagonist, especially when paired with Ash, who's an seasoned traveler and trainer and who makes friends wherever he goes and all.

But idk, it just seems that from a point beyond, they just hit the speed up buttom on his development and nearly every flaw Goh had just got smoothed out off-screen and now he's an equal to Ash in pratically every sense, and it's just bizarre cuz, you know, he's not an equal to Ash. And this is why I couldn't truly enjoy that scene in the ep where Sobble evolved. It almost gives off the vibe that they brought the ''Goh is an awkward kid'' back just coz the plot demanded that Goh had to connect to Drizzile in some way, and they prompetly dropped it again after the ep ended.

It's weird to explain it, but it just seems that, while Ash had to go through 4 different regions to actually mature, Goh had what was pratically speaking an ''whole series arc'' off-screen, and it's so bizarre to even think about it.

Idk if I managed to explain myself fully tho lol.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

While rewatching Ash vs. Kukui, I came to realize something that elevated its value in my eyes as possibly the best battle in the anime, period. And for that, I need to bring up a couple of other battles often regarded as some of the best in the anime's history.

Ash vs. Sawyer and Ash vs. Alain are often held in high regard, and I can't deny that they're visual spectacles, and Sawyer especially had this storyline of him admiring Ash and wanting to surpass him. Alain's reasons were unfortunately a little weaker, since he joined the Kalos League just to get to battle Ash and effectively used his OPness to rob anyone else the chance of winning the League. But he had still been introduced well beyond the League, so he wasn't quite as bad as Tobias in that regard.

But here comes my main point: both Sawyer and Alain were introduced midway through the XY series, especially Alain, if you only count his main series appearances. As such, the time spent building up Ash's relationships with them was relatively limited. Meanwhile, Kukui was introduced at the beginning of SM, and unlike Ash's rivals, who were only seen every now and then, Ash lived with Kukui and came to see him as a father figure. Their relationship got a lot more time to develop throughout the entire SM anime than Ash's relationship with his XY rivals, or arguably any rival in general. So, when it came time for them to battle, they could really enjoy the battle in a way that only people with such close bonds could. Meanwhile, the final rival showdowns in XY focus more on being visual spectacles than the character dynamics, which, while still exist, aren't as strong as Ash's familial relationship with Kukui, which was built up way more than either of them. Not to mention that Ash vs. Kukui also had a lot more switching than most anime matches, which kept the matchups interesting, was four episodes long, effectively had two climaxes, and had probably the most well-animated battle sequences ever in the show's history.

Ash vs. Paul is another awesome battle that was built up since the beginning of its respective series, so it's still easily the best rival battle in the show's history. But as for battles overall, Ash vs. Kukui might just well be a bit above it, depending on your personal preference. Here's waiting to see if Ash vs. Leon will be just as epic.

Also, here's a really good analysis of Ash vs. Kukui and why it's such a great battle:

Spoiler: Ash vs Kukui - How To Make The Perfect Pokemon Battle

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=DsW9L2g52Ts

 

[RafaSceptile]

While rewatching Ash vs. Kukui, I came to realize something that elevated its value in my eyes as possibly the best battle in the anime, period. And for that, I need to bring up a couple of other battles often regarded as some of the best in the anime's history.

Ash vs. Sawyer and Ash vs. Alain are often held in high regard, and I can't deny that they're visual spectacles, and Sawyer especially had this storyline of him admiring Ash and wanting to surpass him. Alain's reasons were unfortunately a little weaker, since he joined the Kalos League just to get to battle Ash and effectively used his OPness to rob anyone else the chance of winning the League. But he had still been introduced well beyond the League, so he wasn't quite as bad as Tobias in that regard.

But here comes my main point: both Sawyer and Alain were introduced midway through the XY series, especially Alain, if you only count his main series appearances. As such, the time spent building up Ash's relationships with them was relatively limited. Meanwhile, Kukui was introduced at the beginning of SM, and unlike Ash's rivals, who were only seen every now and then, Ash lived with Kukui and came to see him as a father figure. Their relationship got a lot more time to develop throughout the entire SM anime than Ash's relationship with his XY rivals, or arguably any rival in general. So, when it came time for them to battle, they could really enjoy the battle in a way that only people with such close bonds could. Meanwhile, the final rival showdowns in XY focus more on being visual spectacles than the character dynamics, which, while still exist, aren't as strong as Ash's familial relationship with Kukui, which was built up way more than either of them. Not to mention that Ash vs. Kukui also had a lot more switching than most anime matches, which kept the matchups interesting, was four episodes long, effectively had two climaxes, and had probably the most well-animated battle sequences ever in the show's history.

Ash vs. Paul is another awesome battle that was built up since the beginning of its respective series, so it's still easily the best rival battle in the show's history. But as for battles overall, Ash vs. Kukui might just well be a bit above it, depending on your personal preference. Here's waiting to see if Ash vs. Leon will be just as epic.

Also, here's a really good analysis of Ash vs. Kukui and why it's such a great battle:

Spoiler: Ash vs Kukui - How To Make The Perfect Pokemon Battle

View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=DsW9L2g52Ts

Another think to add is the fact that this battle as the culmination of the Manalo Conference event is also the culmination of Kukui's dream in the best possible way, which adds more value to the battle, something that also is mentioned by Burnet during the Pikachu vs Empoleon battle.

 

[Gligarman]

Here's an opinion. Pokemon fans are way to uptight and quick to get angry at anything and everything to do with this franchise. While cutting the PokeDex in half at the launch of Gen 8 was absolutely worthy of backlash, I can't tell you how many videos I had to block on Youtube of people bitching about the new art style used since Sun and Moon. It's always someone who knows absolutely nothing about the animation process.

 

[Alola]

I want to say that when we're comparing Ash & Go's friendship to Ash's other friendships, just to keep in mind that friendships differ with each person and the context around the relationship. What you may do with one person you may not do with someone else; what may be explicitly expressed with one friend may not be with another, but that does not necessarily mean that the latter friendship is any less significant or meaningful.

Also, who is to say Ash is getting absolutely nothing out of his friendship with Go? The fact alone that he clearly, affectionately regards Go, from the simple utterances of his name to the more eventful aspects such as the experiences they have shared, indicates that Ash is fond of him to some degree.

Sometimes, having a buddy to laugh with over something simple is an experience either person can deeply treasure; not every relationship has a direct "you do this for me, now I do this for you, then you do this for me, etc." dynamic.

 

[RafaSceptile]

Here's an opinion. Pokemon fans are way to uptight and quick to get angry at anything and everything to do with this franchise. While cutting the PokeDex in half at the launch of Gen 8 was absolutely worthy of backlash, I can't tell you how many videos I had to block on Youtube of people bitching about the new art style used since Sun and Moon. It's always someone who knows absolutely nothing about the animation process.

Those type of videos are the main reason I am so glad that Sakugabooru's blog decided to make an article about SM's animation after the end of the series, because it puts people on perspective about what in reality SM's artsyle and animation were without any obvious bias like in a lot of the videos you mentioned:

Pokemon Sun & Moon Production Retrospect: Animation As Character And Tone

Pokemon Sun & Moon’s TV series wrapped up after 3 years, and Pokemon is now embarking on a whole new adventure. Let’s explore what made its production a resounding success: not the …

blog.sakugabooru.com

 

[Unireon]

I really feel that Gou is not pulling his weight in the relationship.
Since one-sided bonds hit me in a personal level, I am unable to find something wholesome/likeable in Satoshi and Gou's friendship.

I blame the writers for rushing the pace and ruining what did have potential.