Controversial opinions

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

I don't think there is anything wrong with Cameron beating Ash, while I can understand not liking Camerons misplays and having only 5 pokemon, I consider it to be functionally the same as when a character has several of their pokemon taken down, only for another one to come in clutch, a la kalos Pikachu.

It's not just that Cameron defeated Ash that people had a problem with, though, it's how it happened: Cameron did a lot of crucial mistakes (not bringing a full team and sending out two of his Pokemon to fight opponents with severe type advantages) that should have cost him the match badly, but instead he wins because his OP Riolu is apparently the bestest thing ever to grace the planet since sliced bread was invented, so we have to deal with it defeating a fully evolved Flying-type and then proceed to spit on Snivy's efforts to break its Plot Armor by having it evolve and wipe out both her and Pikachu in quick succession anyway. What's even worse is that the way the battle went down implies that had Camreon not made the mistakes he did, he'd have defeated Ash even more soundly, and considering that Cameron then went on to lose to Virgil 3-6 (and Virgil not even needing to use his last Pokemon either), he ends up making Ash look completely pathetic, and that of course is gonna leave a lot of people with a bad taste in their mouths.

Additionally, though this is admittedly a gripe that's wholly personal to me, the only Pokemon of Ash's that racked up wins in the battle against Cameron were Pikachu and Pignite, both of whom were already extremely overused and already had way more victories under their belts that the rest of their teammates: Snivy and Oshawott both had ample screentime, but their win ratio is spotty at best; Boldore and Unfezant meanwhile had such scarce appearances to begin with that it was easy to forget that they even existed. Seriously, would it have killed the writers to throw any of these guys a bone? Why is it that only the Dollar Store version of Infernape and Pikachu (the only Pokemon of Ash's that has literally all the time in the world to get shining moments) were allowed to get any glory when they already had so much of it and their teammates barely had scraps?

Noivern or Goodra? I'm not too sure about this.

There's also most of the Unova team, where only Krookodile, Pignite, maybe Leavanny (and Pikachu) were really effective in the long run. Everyone else either had a spotty win ratio or sparse screentime. Or both.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Noivern or Goodra? I'm not too sure about this.

At least they weren’t starters and had wins. Plus with Noivern and Goodras case they could’ve done more at the league, we just didn’t see it because it was skipped.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

the only Pokemon of Ash's that has literally all the time in the world to get shining moments

The more I think about it, the more I realize how ridiculously beneficial it would be to simply have Pikachu have less battles, or the least amount of battles out of Ash's pokemon. If they keep Pikachu sidelined, we won't have a repeat of BW, we can spend more time developing the other pokemon, we can still showcase how important Pikachu is by having him be the team leader or the one that holds the team together(and Ash), the show can market certain mechanics by saving Pikachu for battles that they really want to be remembered as pure spectacle, and it could even have a potential mpact on the plot. Pikachu fans would be satisfied with this, fans of other Pokemon would be gleeful, and the anime would benefit more by saving Pikachu for spectacle(and development for other pokemon) and focusing on the new pokemon. Basically, it would be a win-win scenario all around, so I'm not sure why they don't do this...?

 

[R1ke]

Bit late to the XY discussion, but man Ash vs Alain was a mess. The battle was fun to watch, but looking back:

Noivern and Goodra were so disappointing. Both lost here against a single pokemon. What’s worse is that they both just had double knockouts against sawyer, so they don’t even get their redemption! Noivern’s annoys me because Ash decides to recall Pikachu and swap in Noivern before Alain even sends his next pokemon in. Why would you that?? The whole point with switching is to get an advantage over your opponent’s pokemon. You literally just gave Alain the switch advantage here! That defeats the whole purpose of switching in the first place. And what do you know, he quickly sends in Weavile to take it out. Noivern deserved better, especially given his track record so far (which sucks even more since he couldn’t go in any gym battles). Goodra isn’t much better since it’s facing an agile pokemon that resists all its attacks. Then it gets knocked out by an ohko move. It was painful to watch, especially because Keanan was watching him live on TV too and his return was so hyped up.

Speaking of Bisharp, that didn’t make much sense to me either. This thing has a thunder wave+guillotine combo to instantly knock out any pokemon. So why wasn’t Alain using it beforehand? They showed that Alain didn’t care about sportmanship or having a ‘fun’ match earlier (since he just swept people with Charizard and Metagross). Yeah they’re strong, but surely he would’ve used it at least once, since it could slice through teams pretty easily. Just showing it on the scoreboard could’ve done wonders imo, cause it looks cheap just giving him this out of the blue. I also really didn’t like how prominent it was during the battle. They established him using Charizard and Metagross as his aces throughout the league, but now this Bisharp is suddenly his second strongest? Why not give Metagross those two KOs (that Bisharp had) instead? It was also built to be a threat throughout the league, with those aforementioned scoreboards. As a side note, I also found it all too convenient that Alain just happened to have an Unfezant which could draw with Talonflame. Ik this is a minor thing, but it looks like they just specifically created it so Talonflame could be taken out, if that makes sense? Their battle looked good though.

This kinda brings me back to Pikachu taking out 2 psuedos. While it’s believable, it does rob his other pokemon from shining. Pikachu already got to take out 2 of Sawyer’s pokemon anyway (and turned the tables for Ash). That’s how he should be used, rather than just sweeping his opponents team (even if he could). Ash vs Kukui gave him the spotlight whilst only giving him one KO at the end. For example here, Goodra should’ve fought Tyranitar as they share so many similarities. Both are psuedo legendaries, are slow and bulky and can change the weather. Why not give Goodra his win here and lose to Metagross instead? Metagross also has agility and resists its attacks so it could’ve beaten both Hawlucha and Goodra anyway. Then Pikachu could’ve handled him and weakened Charizard after. And now you can also have Bisharp lose to Noivern, then lose to Weavile anyway. Hopefully you get what I mean here, Pikachu still gets put in work whilst Ash’s Dragons get their (much needed) spotlight.

Also just some little things. They could’ve showed off hydration again by rain dance cancelling thunder wave. Since when could Hawlucha get stronger by repeatedly taking its opponents attacks? Why did Greninja use cut on base form Charizard, after they literally explained that water shuriken was stronger in the rain? Where the hell did that orange shuriken come from and why did it do nothing or was never brought up again? Then of course, Ash should’ve won here. But even then these problems would still be there.

 

[Eitarou]

The orange shuriken weirds me out because it looks like a Z-Move, but it was never referenced again, not even in the games. I feel it's a missed opportunity not to have that be foreshadowing for SM. That and not having Rotom's Dex be a gift from Clemont.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Ash and Sawyer's battle having two double KOs was bit of an overkill. Just another sign of the League being rushed so that they could just get to that Flare arc already.

 

[Daren]

Where the hell did that orange shuriken come from and why did it do nothing or was never brought up again?

If it's what I think I'm pretty sure it was just there to show off in the previews and make people think Ash was winning.

 

[R1ke]

If it's what I think I'm pretty sure it was just there to show off in the previews and make people think Ash was winning.

Now that I think about it, there were actually a lot of factors that pointed towards Ash winning till that point:
- Ash making it to the finals, which he hadn’t done before.
- Ash hadn’t beaten Alain yet. This was their 3rd fight and was treated as the biggest rivalry in XYZ. Up until now, he’d always beaten his rivals; at least those he lost to prior.
- Ash Greninja had mastered its power, since then it’s been settling scores against its major foes (like Sawyer and Wulfric). Hell Ash even beat Astrid at the league. So Alain losing seemed natural given the story. Ash Greninja had never battled him in his complete form and almost beat Diantha too; so him winning seemed believable even.
- By the end of episode 130, Ash had a 3v2 advantage where both Goodra and Greninja hadn’t battled whilst both Charizard and Bisharp were weakened.
- Throughout the league, Ash was presented as more ‘heroic’ whilst Alain came across as more ‘villanous’. Everyone was rooting for Ash (both us and the characters) whilst Alain was acting standoffish and unsportsmanlike throughout. Seemed like Alain would’ve lost and learnt what was most important in battle was being one with your pokemon and enjoying it, rather than pure strength. The classic pokemon villain defeat and moral of the story. At least that’s how I interpreted it.
- That random Furfrou guy telling Ash to ‘win for everyone who couldn’t enter the league’.
- The infamous ‘Kalos League Victory! Ash’s greatest battle!’ title.
- Of course, the orange shuriken like you mentioned.

Genuinely think they were gonna have him win but got struck down by the higher ups.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

Throughout the league, Ash was presented as more ‘heroic’ whilst Alain came across as more ‘villanous’. Everyone was rooting for Ash (both us and the characters whilst Alain was acting standoffish and unsportsmanlike throughout.

This one really makes me wonder just how last minute the decision would have been, since this specific detail was only a quick moment that kinda stuck out in the midst and that could have been easily cut out or reworked to flow better.

 

[R1ke]

This one really makes me wonder just how last minute the decision would have been, since this specific detail was only a quick moment that kinda stuck out in the midst and that could have been easily cut out or reworked to flow better.

In a way they basically validated Alain’s attitude and approach by having him win. It’s very unlike Anipoke to actually reward someone who almost goes against the ideals/philosophies they set in the show. Feels like getting the bad ending in a video game.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

In a way they basically validated Alain’s attitude and approach by having him win. It’s very unlike Anipoke to actually reward someone who almost goes against the ideals/philosophies they set in the show. Feels like getting the bad ending in a video game.

Exactly why I've felt that he should've lost at some point. Instead, his moment of realization only comes when everything's already going downhill.

 

[Daren]

Genuinely think they were gonna have him win but got struck down by the higher ups.

If I could learn the full truth behind one Pokémon anime detail it would definitely be this.
I hope someone on the XY staff eventually talks about it like Shudo did.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

Exactly why I've felt that he should've lost at some point. Instead, his moment of realization only comes when everything's already going downhill.

And even so it fell flat because it never felt like Alain’s life and goals changed significantly because of working with Lysandre.

 

[Galactic_V]

Other people have said it, and I remember they doing it even after Satoshi's loss episode aired, that Alan should've lost to him in the finals. It sorta makes sense to think about it since OLM allowed Satoshi to win the league in SM. In my opinion it was intended for him to win in Kalos, but due to executive meddling it ended up not happening.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Now that I think about it, there were actually a lot of factors that pointed towards Ash winning till that point:
- Ash making it to the finals, which he hadn’t done before.
- Ash hadn’t beaten Alain yet. This was their 3rd fight and was treated as the biggest rivalry in XYZ. Up until now, he’d always beaten his rivals; at least those he lost to prior.
- Ash Greninja had mastered its power, since then it’s been settling scores against its major foes (like Sawyer and Wulfric). Hell Ash even beat Astrid at the league. So Alain losing seemed natural given the story. Ash Greninja had never battled him in his complete form and almost beat Diantha too; so him winning seemed believable even.
- By the end of episode 130, Ash had a 3v2 advantage where both Goodra and Greninja hadn’t battled whilst both Charizard and Bisharp were weakened.
- Throughout the league, Ash was presented as more ‘heroic’ whilst Alain came across as more ‘villanous’. Everyone was rooting for Ash (both us and the characters) whilst Alain was acting standoffish and unsportsmanlike throughout. Seemed like Alain would’ve lost and learnt what was most important in battle was being one with your pokemon and enjoying it, rather than pure strength. The classic pokemon villain defeat and moral of the story. At least that’s how I interpreted it.
- That random Furfrou guy telling Ash to ‘win for everyone who couldn’t enter the league’.
- The infamous ‘Kalos League Victory! Ash’s greatest battle!’ title.
- Of course, the orange shuriken like you mentioned.

Genuinely think they were gonna have him win but got struck down by the higher ups.

And then there’s the question “Why did the higher ups say no?”
I think it’s because if they had Ash won they would further mature him (maybe into having a relationship with Serena and have that be an endgame) but the higher ups didn’t want that because it was too mature

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Other people have said it, and I remember they doing it even after Satoshi's loss episode aired, that Alan should've lost to him in the finals. It sorta makes sense to think about it since OLM allowed Satoshi to win the league in SM. In my opinion it was intended for him to win in Kalos, but due to executive meddling it ended up not happening.

This is why the situation pisses and baffles me off so much. They let him win in Alola but not in Kalos and I don’t understand it.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

This is why the situation pisses and baffles me off so much. They let him win in Alola but not in Kalos and I don’t understand it.

The Alola victory is probably in reference to the games, where the Alola protagonist, who's from Kanto, becomes the region's first Champion.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

I think it’s because if they had Ash won they would further mature him (maybe into having a relationship with Serena and have that be an endgame) but the higher ups didn’t want that because it was too mature

...that's a rather odd conclusion to make. How would Ash winning the league "further mature him"? (Also, relationship ≠ mature-juvenile would be more accurate considering the audience and ages of the characters)

 

[Daren]

And then there’s the question “Why did the higher ups say no?”

I've had a few guesses at various times, but there's no evidence to really support any of them. Just throwing a few out:
*Someone opposed the idea of him "skipping" places (since his previous best was top 4) and insisted he get runner-up once before winning.
*They wanted a Kanto trainer to win in Alola to follow the game per @FinnishPokéFan92 and thought him winning a league beforehand would weaken it.
*A higher up didn't want him to ever win but the amount of attention Kalos's outcome received changed someone's mind.
*They were told to make Charizard X win as part of how heavily it was promoted (Origins, Smash Bros).

Honestly there are too many possibilities and very little evidence to back them. I find myself wondering if Rica Matsumoto's "we're allowed to that?" comment when told he was winning in Alola means anything.

 

[Enzo]

Man , I wil never get that orange shuriken.

Like, where the hell did that shit even even came from? It literally showed up out of nowhere, and no one ever questioned it? And never showed up again.

At least I think that if Ash did won the league they would've explained what that was, maybe even through Zygarde (?), but oh well.