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Controversial opinions

Hidden Mew

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One thing I noticed is that the Galar Starters really did change the game for future Starters going forward into the series tho.


These will be the 1st set of Starters to have all 3 reach their final stages

Also none of them went to Ash.

This brings forth 2 very Big Questions.


1.) Will Ash ever get another Starter again?

2.) Will all Starters Fully Evolve from the this point out?

I think it's too early to answer either of those questions. Just because Ash didn't get one of the new starters for this series doesn't necessarily mean he won't get one in the next series or that all of future starters will fully evolve going forward either. For better or for worse, Journeys is a different kind of Pokemon series, so it's hard to say if the changes they've made for the Galar starters will be done for any future generations as well.

Out of the two questions, I could see them making each starter fully evolve going forward, if only to better promote each form. While I can understand some the issues with Goh getting at least two fully evolved starters, I do kind of like that the anime is featuring different stages of a starter's form since that kind of feels refreshing. I think it makes more sense to wait awhile for starters, or Pokemon in general, to be fully evolved, but sometimes they also take too long to do even that.

I can see Ash getting another starter in the future. They are clearly doing something different for his current team, which may not be the exact case for future series. Plus, I don't think that the Galar starters would necessarily be handled better under Ash's team given how many understandably complain about Gengar not appearing. I just think people are a bit quick to assume that the changes made in Journeys are going to stick past this series when it's just too early to tell for sure either way.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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These will be the 1st set of Starters to have all 3 reach their final stages
Is this confirmed? Because we can't say for sure until there's at least a solid hint that Grookey will evolve, so I wouldn't say this is a broken trend just yet.
 

A Wild Luxray

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Is this confirmed? Because we can't say for sure until there's at least a solid hint that Grookey will evolve, so I wouldn't say this is a broken trend just yet.
For now, part of me doesn't think Grookey will evolve because of one thing: Ever since DP, the anime has had a constant need of having at least one "cute" and marketable gag starter. IMO, all three of Galar's starters fit the bill, though right now, that's Grookey.

Scorbunny started out at the cute one, though they shifted away from this after Scorbunny evolved. Sobble came along, and while Raboot still had those moments, Sobble was mostly the cute "gag" one, with Sobble's big gags being it often crying and having others cry along. Plus there was Sobble often hiding. As soon as Grookey showed up, Sobble evolved and promptly disappeared into the background not too long after.
 
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CyberKitten05

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Grookey will most likely evolve and be replaced with like Kubfu or Toxel in maybe 20 Episodes. Just a guess since they seem to replace the gagmon so often this series.
Hopefully not Toxel, because I really don't want its personality on the main cast.
 

Rainbow-Rain

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Is this confirmed? Because we can't say for sure until there's at least a solid hint that Grookey will evolve, so I wouldn't say this is a broken trend just yet.
If anything I'd say that this post is confirmation alone that Grookey will Evolve eventually.

For now, part of me doesn't think Grookey will evolve because of one thing: Ever since DP, the anime has had a constant need of having at least one "cute" and marketable gag starter. IMO, all three of Galar's starters fit the bill, though right now, that's Grookey.

Scorbunny started out at the cute one, though they shifted away from this after Scorbunny evolved. Sobble came along, and while Raboot still had those moments, Sobble was mostly the cute "gag" one, with Sobble's big gags being it often crying and having others cry along. Plus there was Sobble often hiding. As soon as Grookey showed up, Sobble evolved and promptly disappeared into the background not too long after.

This only sums up the reason why I'm sure Grookey's Evolving

Scorbunny and Sobble were used for gags until they suddenly weren't.

So what exactly would be stopping Grookey from following their lead? :wynaut:

Only reason that it's even up for debate is because of the Question of what will replace Grookey as Gou's new shoulder Mon after it Evolves? :unsure:
 

Enzo

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You know, in regards to the starters, I do think these two questions OP stated are yet to be answered.

But I know that this is not a controversial opinion at this point, but I still strongly believe Goh shouldn't have gotten all 3 starters. Ash should've gotten at least one, and Chloe should've gotten the last. The thing is, at least imo, Goh is objectively the worse choice to have the full trio. (Well, Chloe would be the worst of the 3 if we really think about it but my point still stands.) Goh doesn't really showcases the starters is any interesting way. I get that there's more in a Pokémon than just battling, but with the way these have been treated, ugh.

Scorbunny had potential, but evolved too fast, the ''Raboot doesn't respects Goh'' plot line was badly written and also ended too fast, which culminated in a rather underwhelming, and arguably underserved, evolution into Cinderace, who also barely appears nowdays, and when it does, it just battles against a random Pokémon for 15 seconds before it gets captured by Goh. So it just got the fate of ''capture assistant'', cuz even the ''It and Lucario are equal'' thing sorta of got dropped at this point.

Sobble had the biggest bs capture in history (seriously what was that?), did nothing but stand on Goh's shoulder and it's crying gag, evolved in the most underwhelming way possible, and disappeared. At least we have the eventual evolution into an Inteleon to loo forward to, but in all honesty, I'm not that excited. All this without counting the anime's biggest fake out with it's capture that put even the Kalos League's final battle promo to shame.

And Grookey... well... it's cute. But that's it: the whole thing about it begins and ends with it being cute. And even the way it literally fell into Goh's lap was contrived and it was really controversial all around, making Goh's popularity dip significantly throughout the entire fandom.

I get it. Probably none of them would've fared much better with Ash, considering how his team is being treated this season, but considering how, in the past, the starters are usually the ace in the team and they get some good focus, I still wish Ash would've gotten one. Maybe they would've been treated better, but oh well...
 
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Ghost Diplocaulus

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If anything I'd say that this post is confirmation alone that Grookey will Evolve eventually.
Excuse me, but... how? How does me pointing out that there's currently zero proof of Grookey evolving evidence that it will? You keep saying that "so far" is key words that something will definitely appear to replace Grookey in the future, but there's an equal chance that nothing will, so if you're going to claim that 50% odds of a new cutemon appearing suddenly equals 100... well, everyone who's skeptical of Grookey's evolution can use those same arguments to claim the opposite.
 

Hidden Mew

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Was Scorbunny really considered a gag Pokemon? Aside from kicking Ash a couple of times, I don't really remember it being used as a gag Pokemon prior to evolving into Raboot. Sobble's crying was used a a gag more often by comparison, but I don't think it was used that heavily either. I don't think that the crying was used that much and turning invisible could be considered more of a character gimmick or quirk than just a running gag.

As far as Grookey evolving goes, it could go either way at this point. The fact that Goh is going to have at least two fully evolved starters does make the notion that Grookey will eventually evolve possible. It wouldn't be impossible to replace Grookey with another cute marketable Pokemon either, but there is no strong evidence pointing to that possibility at the moment, so it is still fifty-fifty odds at best right now.
 

Jewel the Quaxly

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Was Scorbunny really considered a gag Pokemon? Aside from kicking Ash a couple of times, I don't really remember it being used as a gag Pokemon prior to evolving into Raboot. Sobble's crying was used a a gag more often by comparison, but I don't think it was used that heavily either. I don't think that the crying was used that much and turning invisible could be considered more of a character gimmick or quirk than just a running gag.
I feel as if the actual definition of what a gag pokemon can be is rather loose at this point, honestly.

Snivy should have been treated as Ash's ace in Unova. *shrugs*
To me, Snivy felt like the most interesting character out of the entire Unova team. Her backstory is unique, her capture episode established numerous aspects of her personality that were never lost or shown less as the series went on(unlike, say, Talonflame or Palpitoad if I remember correctly) and she had unique relationships with each of the other pokemon on the main cast-the most notable one being Pignite. Her flaws balanced out the positive aspects of her personality and it would've been really interesting to see her grow from said flaws as her attitude actually tended to cause problems on occasion(most notable: Emolga). Snivy had SO much potential and its sad that it unfortunately went to waste.
 

Enzo

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To me, Snivy felt like the most interesting character out of the entire Unova team. Her backstory is unique, her capture episode established numerous aspects of her personality that were never lost or shown less as the series went on(unlike, say, Talonflame or Palpitoad if I remember correctly) and she had unique relationships with each of the other pokemon on the main cast-the most notable one being Pignite. Her flaws balanced out the positive aspects of her personality and it would've been really interesting to see her grow from said flaws as her attitude actually tended to cause problems on occasion(most notable: Emolga). Snivy had SO much potential and its sad that it unfortunately went to waste.
You know, I'm still SO mad they didn't went anywhere with Snivy. I mean, okay, Pokémon being released and given away by trainers for not being strong or ''good'' enough and then being recaptured and then getting stronger is a nice arc and message and all, but c'mon, it's been seen and done ever since OS.

Which is also the main generalised complaint with Pignite too. Another Fire starter getting kicked out for being weak enough and that eventually gets stronger?
groundbreaking.gif

But a Pokémon leaving it's trainer out of dissatisfaction because it's past trainer wasn't good enough in it's eyes? Like, wow. I'm invested. But then they just went nowhere with that. They never dived into that.

Also, now that I'm typing this... wasn't this Greninja's backstory? Maybe they scrapped Snivy's backstory to reuse for Froakie?
 

Rainbow-Rain

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Excuse me, but... how? How does me pointing out that there's currently zero proof of Grookey evolving evidence that it will? You keep saying that "so far" is key words that something will definitely appear to replace Grookey in the future, but there's an equal chance that nothing will, so if you're going to claim that 50% odds of a new cutemon appearing suddenly equals 100... well, everyone who's skeptical of Grookey's evolution can use those same arguments to claim the opposite.
I was actually pointing towards the post Luxray said.

It definitely seems to be going a pattern/cycle with the Galar Starters.

Scorbunny started out as a gag mon and evolved by the time Sobble came around

Sobble started out as a gag mon and evolve shortly after Grookey got here.

Only thing potentially stopping Grookey from following their lead is that we don't know what will replace it after it evolves


Also last I recall weren't almost EVERYONE here skeptical/almost certain Sobble wasn't going to evolve? :unsure:


I feel as if the actual definition of what a gag pokemon can be is rather loose at this point, honestly.
A gag mon is whatever you choose to call these guys
1550941070441.jpg



To me, Snivy felt like the most interesting character out of the entire Unova team. Her backstory is unique, her capture episode established numerous aspects of her personality that were never lost or shown less as the series went on(unlike, say, Talonflame or Palpitoad if I remember correctly) and she had unique relationships with each of the other pokemon on the main cast-the most notable one being Pignite. Her flaws balanced out the positive aspects of her personality and it would've been really interesting to see her grow from said flaws as her attitude actually tended to cause problems on occasion(most notable: Emolga). Snivy had SO much potential and its sad that it unfortunately went to waste.
To this day I still get heated when I think about Snivy's wasted potential.

She had such a unique personality (by Pokemon standards anyway), interesting implied backstory (which got recycled for Froakie later), and was just all around cool in general.

Nah let's just drop all of that simply because the writer's wanted to recreate the OS by having an Evolved Fire Starter and Unevolved Water and Grass Starters :rolleyes:
 

Galactic_V

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I think this might sound a lot controversial so I'll voice my opinion towards the so-called Gagmon (which is a good and funny nickname btw): the one that bugs me the most happens to be Pocchama, and for the reason he's constantly thrown into your face every single episode. I skipped most of SM so can't say much about Mukuroh, and as far as I remember Mijumaru and Harimaron wouldn't appear weekly.

I understand and agree that Pocchama is the best developed of all of them, and I do like his training bits (as well as the Draco Meteor gag), but making him as a second Pikachu in DP is sort of annoying to me. I wish he'd miss some episodes back then.
 

A Wild Luxray

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I think its more so that Scorbunny had the build of the cutesy, marketable gag starter. The cutesy, energetic, prideful, cocky type. Scorbunny did kick Ash around a little, but it didn't have that much in terms of gags. Scorbunny certainly looked like it was gonna go in that direction though, until it evolved suddenly not even 20 episodes in.
 

Hidden Mew

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I was actually pointing towards the post Luxray said.

It definitely seems to be going a pattern/cycle with the Galar Starters.

Scorbunny started out as a gag mon and evolved by the time Sobble came around

Sobble started out as a gag mon and evolve shortly after Grookey got here.

Only thing potentially stopping Grookey from following their lead is that we don't know what will replace it after it evolves.

I'm still not sure how Scorbunny was considered a gag Pokemon. I can understand seeing Sobble as such, even though I don't think that they relied on the crying gag that much prior to its evolution, but what gags did Scorbunny actually have? I'm not sure if Grookey has a gag right now so much as it's just the cute marketable unevolved starter.

Rainbow-Rain said:
Also last I recall weren't almost EVERYONE here skeptical/almost certain Sobble wasn't going to evolve? :unsure

Admittedly, I don't remember if fans thought that Sobble wasn't going to evolve, but I don't think that necessarily improves Grookey's chances of evolving right now.

I think this might sound a lot controversial so I'll voice my opinion towards the so-called Gagmon (which is a good and funny nickname btw): the one that bugs me the most happens to be Pocchama, and for the reason he's constantly thrown into your face every single episode. I skipped most of SM so can't say much about Mukuroh, and as far as I remember Mijumaru and Harimaron wouldn't appear weekly.

I understand and agree that Pocchama is the best developed of all of them, and I do like his training bits (as well as the Draco Meteor gag), but making him as a second Pikachu in DP is sort of annoying to me. I wish he'd miss some episodes back then.

As much as I think Piplup generally works for what they were going for, I can definitely understand finding it annoying or just being annoyed at how hard they were pushing it as the secondary mascot of DP. Every time I've rewatched DP, Piplup being treated like a regular starter with not appearing in every episode to being the second Pikachu out of its Pokeball every episode is still so jarring.
 

Rainbow-Rain

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I'm still not sure how Scorbunny was considered a gag Pokemon. I can understand seeing Sobble as such, even though I don't think that they relied on the crying gag that much prior to its evolution, but what gags did Scorbunny actually have? I'm not sure if Grookey has a gag right now so much as it's just the cute marketable unevolved starter.
From what I remember Scorbunny seemed to have a bit of a gag that consisted of acting cocky yet immediately getting btfo by other Pokémon (Pikachu, Mightyena, Golurk, etc)
He also had a bit of a short temper. (Like you said it liked to kick Ash and Gou around)
Only reason it wasn't as blatant was because he stick around long enough for those Gags to cement





Admittedly, I don't remember if fans thought that Sobble wasn't going to evolve, but I don't think that necessarily improves Grookey's chances of evolving right now.
Lmao there were tons of people who believed it wasn't gonna evolve even after the Episode that introduced Inteleon showed how much Sobble looked up to him and strived to become like him.

Admittedly I shouldn't have so quick to say that Grookey will outright Evolve but to think Evolution seems unlikely for him is odd to me considering what we've been given so far

Like there's nothing pointing to Grookey's Evolution sure. But was there anything pointing towards Scorbunny's Evolution before it randomly happened?
 
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