• A new LGBTQ+ forum is now being trialed and there have been changes made to the Support and Advice forum. To read more about these updates, click here.
  • Hey Trainers! Be sure to check out Corsola Beach, our newest section on the forums, in partnership with our friends at Corsola Cove! At the Beach, you can discuss the competitive side of the games, post your favorite Pokemon memes, and connect with other Pokemon creators!
  • Due to the recent changes with Twitter's API, it is no longer possible for Bulbagarden forum users to login via their Twitter account. If you signed up to Bulbagarden via Twitter and do not have another way to login, please contact us here with your Twitter username so that we can get you sorted.

Controversial opinions

You know, as more time passes, the more and more the popularity of the DP movies begin to frustrate me. I haven't watched the fourth one, but the first three being popular picks among fans just doesn't resonate well with me. They're just so generic and contain such terrible writing that I honestly can't enjoy them as much as other people do. The Rise of Darkrai dragged on for too long, Giratina and the Sky Warrior was confusing, and Arceus and the Jewel of Life legitimately baffled me as to how they could take such an interesting and unique premise, with interesting characters and relationships set up, and execute it so badly. Not to mention, it often felt forced as to how they would often make it unclear as to who the movie's focus was. Everything was so muddled, I couldn't understand what was happening, or how each movie connected with one another. Nor was anything well paced, in my opinion. Not to mention...Ash. His role in these movies often don't make very much sense to me. It's not like the early OS movies, where you could understand Ash as a character and how he's important, but, here? I just don't understand what role he plays and it feels like Pokemon Ranger and the Temple of the Sea all over again(seriously, why was Ash playing the big rescue role at the end there? May was more important than he was and had more personal stakes, this felt so unnatural...).

I know this probably sounds like incessant complaining, but I really can't understand the appeal of these movies. Why didn't The Rise of Darkrai focus on the Darkrai more and make it the protagonist? They spent ten minutes introducing Ash, Dawn, and Brock anyway, so why couldn't they have just started the movie focusing on Darkrai's story and establishing the garden and the characters surrounding it? DP's movie trilogy has interesting premises and potential character exploration, but it feels like it's all thrown to waste in terms of execution.
 
I haven’t watched the Pokemon films for a very, very, very long time. All I know is…I’ve only liked about three of them.

They all just feel boring. Majority of the time is just showing off the Pokemon goofing off, which I suppose made me watch when I was a kid, but don’t have much replay value. Then, there’s just random fights with characters barely established and I don’t think I could name a single antagonist (besides Zero, cause that name is stupid), leading to no intense moments that give a good pay-off.
I just remember watching the X&Y films and thinking, this is solely based off exploiting the fact legendaries/Mega Evolutions are fighting, and that’s it. Meanwhile, the Best Wishes movies were painfully boring and predictable. The Advanced screenings I really don’t remember that well. I think Lucario & Mew had a few heart-warming moments and somewhat of a cohesive plot, and I think I enjoyed it? Jirachi & The Wishmaker, I don’t think I’ve seen, which is weird. I’ve heard its good though.
The OS I think were pretty predictable as well, with the third film being bizarre, which at the same time was cool?
Pokemon, I really feel as though it’s not adaptable for films. It’s like Tom & Jerry, there’s only so much you can do with characters’ premises before it gets stale.

That is, the reboot movies I actually enjoy. “I Chose You” was actually a really nice homage that kept me interested because there were new themes to explore with branching characteristics of new characters, even from Ash, surprisingly. Seeing Ash actually say “Maybe I would have won with Pikachu” made me drop my jaw. It was so much fun to explore an entirely new realm.
However, the ones that were non-cannon which ran alongside the anime, were inconsistent.
Maybe they’re better than I remember? Again, it’s been a long time since I indulged myself in these products, so I’m just writing this off the top of my head.
 
Last edited:
It's in Japan.

I don't think Journeys is set in Kanto simply because Kanto is in Japan. In fact, I believe Journeys could take place in any region, except Galar.

One of this season's proposals is not to stick exclusively to any region. Instead, the intention is to revisit, in some way, all of them. Therefore, it would be unwise to establish the series in a new region, unexplored by the characters and the audience.

On the other hand, the smartest thing would be to choose a region that is already overexploited and very familiar to the public. In this sense, there's nothing better than Kanto, which is the first region, the protagonist's home land and, for that matter, based in Japan.
 
Journeys was supposed to be everywhere. The entire point of the show is getting the characters to explore every single region including the newest one, in this case, Galar. The problem is that it's a show that completely failed it's own primary premise by only focusing in Kanto for whatever reason.

As I said before in a previous comment: any resemblence of reason to put the base in Kanto is also enough reasoning to put it anywhere else. But Galar is the most obvious and arguably better alternative for even more reasons: the newest region with the most recent games, new and unexplored places and Pokémon, a whole new cast of characters, etc.

The argument that ''JN focuses on Kanto because the target audience is in Japan'' is weak as paper for a multitude of reasons, but primarily for 2:

Kanto is not the only region based off Japan, since Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh are too and they don't receive anywhere near levels of love and focus compared to Kanto by the writers. And the target audience is global. It's not a Japan-only show and it never was.
 
This seems random, but I will forever be unable to understand why people liked Team Rocket in BW. They weren't even that competent! I mean, why would they literally put Pikachu with all of the Pokeballs they're stealing despite having hunted down Pikachu for so long? Hell, they even say this, afterward:
Screenshot 2021-07-27 1.37.13 PM.png
No. :lapras::lapras::lapras:Really??? You don't think it has anything to do with, gee, I dunno, where you kept him captured??? :bulbaFacepalm: This is idiocy at its finest and SM Team Rocket were much more competent without having to pretend to be. The BW Rockets just don't have any substance and only ACT smart, but they're essentially just the same as any other minor antagonist in this anime-they're treated more seriously, when the mistakes they make are worse than when they weren't treated more seriously.

Also, they still do the motto in BW, so I'm not sure what people mean that they're more like villains when that's pretty silly in of itself, especially if they're the only ones doing it. So, not only are they soulless robots, but they're still pretty dumb. Actually, they might be even MORE dumb because they're not even coming up with their own schemes anymore. They're just following orders like good little grunts.

Not to mention the jarring transition from where they go from ridiculously unlikable to the anime trying to make us like them again. Why did Meowth feel guilt for being a manipulative jerk in Danger...Sweet as Honey but not when he was doing it for weeks??? Why did they suddenly go from super serious to super goofy? The transition is too jarring and the before and after don't do any favors either. The bonds between them aren't shown off, neither are the bonds between their pokemon, so what was so appealing about them?
 
This seems random, but I will forever be unable to understand why people liked Team Rocket in BW. They weren't even that competent!
Fanbases often latch onto the perception of competence more than the actual thing, and once people talk something up enough it becomes very entrenched.
If someone acts cool and collected and isn't used for too much comedy then even if the character is a massive screw-up people will buy into the facade.
You do see exceptions, though, often when the writers tries to push the character's supposed prowess too hard and backlash hits.
 
Journeys was supposed to be everywhere. The entire point of the show is getting the characters to explore every single region including the newest one, in this case, Galar. The problem is that it's a show that completely failed it's own primary premise by only focusing in Kanto for whatever reason.

As I said before in a previous comment: any resemblence of reason to put the base in Kanto is also enough reasoning to put it anywhere else. But Galar is the most obvious and arguably better alternative for even more reasons: the newest region with the most recent games, new and unexplored places and Pokémon, a whole new cast of characters, etc.

The argument that ''JN focuses on Kanto because the target audience is in Japan'' is weak as paper for a multitude of reasons, but primarily for 2:

Kanto is not the only region based off Japan, since Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh are too and they don't receive anywhere near levels of love and focus compared to Kanto by the writers. And the target audience is global. It's not a Japan-only show and it never was.


- First, I didn't justify Kanto's choice simply because it is in Japan.

- Second, no one has argued that: ''JN focuses on Kanto because the target audience is in Japan". The argument was that: "JN is set in Kanto because the target audience is in Japan". While the Protagonists' base of operations is in Kanto, the anime shouldn't focus on a specific region. If so, that's another matter.

- Third, no one said there are no other japan-inspired regions. The fact that they don't receive as much attention as Kanto is probably why the protagonists' base are not there. Unlike Kanto, these are regions to be explored.

- Fourth, The argument that you used to choose Galar as the location for the protagonists' base is the same one that, every season until Journeys, the producers used to decide the location where the anime would be played. Therefore, considering the new premise, Galar is not the ideal place to hold the protagonists' base, but, instead, the ideal place to be explored more further.

- Fifth, if you always mumble reasons why the anime should be in Galar, and never try to understand why Kanto is the "base" region. Well, you will never be trying to understand the producers' reasons.

- Sixth, Whether the choice of producers was right or not, It is another matter. However, they definitely have their reasons.


Except Galar? You cannot revisit a place you’ve never visited even once.

- Yes, for the sake of pure semantics, Ash and Goh are precluded from going to Galar. Life is not always fair.
 
Last edited:
- Fourth, The argument that you used to choose Galar as the location for the protagonists' base is the same one that, every season until Journeys, the producers used to decide the location where the anime would be played. Therefore, considering the new premise, Galar is not the ideal place to hold the protagonists' base, but, instead, the ideal place to be explored more further.
Would setting the “base” in Galar not be more ideal for exploring it more further than how things are now? Given how many episodes occur in Kanto due to that being the “base” location, it stands to reason that that level of focus could have been given to Galar had that been the location.
 
The argument that ''JN focuses on Kanto because the target audience is in Japan'' is weak as paper for a multitude of reasons, but primarily for 2:

Kanto is not the only region based off Japan, since Johto, Hoenn and Sinnoh are too and they don't receive anywhere near levels of love and focus compared to Kanto by the writers.
And this point makes no sense because, again, three regions weren't even based off of Japan.
Not comparable at all. Kanto region is the home region, it's basically cultural economic and political center of Japan. Almost every anime take place in Kanto region, places like Hokkaido and Kansai regions are only shown as places where the main characters go as part of school trips and holidays.
The anime doesn't feel that Japanese, that was during the original Kanto.
But now it feels like a generic setting
There is noticeable things in recent episodes that makes me feel like they take place in a japanese background.
 
Last edited:
However, they definitely have their reasons.
Is any of this actually officially confirmed? Because making speculation behind why the producers are making the home base set in Kanto is exactly that: speculation. None of it is confirmed, which is why people are questioning the decision: we haven't been given an answer.

And since we have NOT been given a reason by official sources, then the only thing the fans have to go off of is speculation, which doesn't really hold very well in a defense as to why the home base is set in Kanto and not Galar. This could apply to the arguments as to why the home base is set in Galar, yes, but the key difference is that one is speculation for something that isn't there while another is speculation for something that is.

And the reasoning for these arguments in the first place are not as much as people getting tired of Kanto, but rather, more people wanting the Galar region to be explored more. If the home base is literally at the place that is desired to be explored, obviously, there would be a greater quantity of said "exploration". Note how majority of Journeys episodes have been set in Kanto and showcase multiple Kantoneon pokemon. Six episodes into the anime and we've already had an entire episode dedicated to merely showing off the Kanto bug types. It's only natural for people to assume Galar would get explored more had the base been set IN Galar with the evidence provided, giving this speculation a bit more of a basis than the speculation as to what reasoning the producers would have to set the base in Kanto.
 
XY is too overrated and AG is a bit underrated.
Ash should have evolved Squirtle or Bulbasaur
Greninja is a very overrated Ash Pokemon
Ash's Lucario is about 12 years too late
Ash should have had a mega instead of Ash Greninja
Ash in BW catching more than 6 is ok with me
Pikachu isn't the strongest Pokemon of Ash
Brock didn't serve much of a purpose until his goal changed in DP
Gou is a good character
Its nice to see someone other than Ash catch all the starters
 
The one reason I can think of for Kanto being the home base, as opposed to Galar, is that Journeys isn't ending when Gen 9 comes out.

They have a format now that can continue regardless of which games come out. It's not on a time limit like older shows which were anchored in the region of the current generation, so when Gen 9 comes out with a new region they can simply visit there. If this is the case - and it's purely hypothetical - it's logical to have Ash's home base be his actual home region, especially now they've established he can go to and from regions in no time at all.

Looking at it this way, there's no real need for a new series of the anime to focus on any one given region anymore.
 
Last edited:
The one reason I can think of for Kanto being the home base, as opposed to Galar, is that Journeys isn't ending when Gen 9 comes out.

They have a format now that can continue regardless of which games come out. It's not on a time limit like older shows which were anchored in the region of the current generation, so when Gen 9 comes out with a new region they can simply visit there. If this is the case - and it's purely hypothetical - it's logical to have Ash's home base be his actual home region, especially now they've established he can go to and from regions in no time at all.

Looking at it this way, there's no real need for a new series of the anime to focus on any one given region anymore.
I personally don't think this format works, though I do think if it was executed better, maybe some might not have issues with the base being in Kanto if done a little differently. Maybe more mini arcs. Say you're in Kanto for 2 episodes, go to Galar for a 4 episode arc, go back to Kanto for 1 episode, then go to Hoenn for a small 3 episode mini arc. I'd probably say have more of these arcs in Galar than other regions though.
 
The one reason I can think of for Kanto being the home base, as opposed to Galar, is that Journeys isn't ending when Gen 9 comes out.

They have a format now that can continue regardless of which games come out. It's not on a time limit like older shows which were anchored in the region of the current generation, so when Gen 9 comes out with a new region they can simply visit there. If this is the case - and it's purely hypothetical - it's logical to have Ash's home base be his actual home region, especially now they've established he can go to and from regions in no time at all.

Looking at it this way, there's no real need for a new series of the anime to focus on any one given region anymore.
I still can't really see them keeping this format for the long term. This notion that Journeys has such a limitless format has always rubbed me the wrong way. While eighth generation promotion hasn't been the main priority, it still has some importance given Goh's Galar starters and Leon. The PWC is another issue since I definitely can't see that goal lasting past this generation given its current pace.

I'd also be rather disappointed if they don't focus on any one given region in the future. Not only because I'm disappointed over how they've handled the Galar region, but I don't think that this format really benefits anyone. It doesn't make use of the older regions, it doesn't make use of the newest region and most of the time they're either in Kanto or generic areas. If they were more willing to spend more than an episode or two in other regions, I think that they could make this work, but if they're just going to spend most of the time in Kanto, I don't think it would be good or worthwhile to keep this format going on indefinitely.
 
I'd also be rather disappointed if they don't focus on any one given region in the future. Not only because I'm disappointed over how they've handled the Galar region, but I don't think that this format really benefits anyone. It doesn't make use of the older regions, it doesn't make use of the newest region and most of the time they're either in Kanto or generic areas. If they were more willing to spend more than an episode or two in other regions, I think that they could make this work, but if they're just going to spend most of the time in Kanto, I don't think it would be good or worthwhile to keep this format going on indefinitely.
Same here. I'm already tired of how they've wasted such a wonderful concept for a series. Having it go on for even longer would just be so tiring that it'd make me miss the old formula a hell of a lot more.
 
XY is too overrated and AG is a bit underrated.
Ash should have evolved Squirtle or Bulbasaur
Greninja is a very overrated Ash Pokemon
Ash's Lucario is about 12 years too late
Ash should have had a mega instead of Ash Greninja
Ash in BW catching more than 6 is ok with me
Pikachu isn't the strongest Pokemon of Ash
Brock didn't serve much of a purpose until his goal changed in DP
Gou is a good character
Its nice to see someone other than Ash catch all the starters
the only thing I disagree right here is "Gou is a good character" sure peoples can have their opinions but deleting Gou out of Journeys (somehow) solves half of the issues anime has right now.
Maybe that's because of how poorly executed his goal was but IDK.
 
Who knows what the plan is, really?

It's interesting to me they opted to open up the anime in this way. To go from no limits on who can be on a team, on where the characters to go, on which characters can come back into the series, and so on, to being in just one region, catching one generation's Pokemon, etc. would feel reductive. Journeys has been such a departure from what they used to do I've a hard time seeing it as a short-term or one-off thing. It might not continue exactly as is but this general concept of openness should stay.

This isn't necessarily evidence, but when the director says he wants every Pokemon to be shown... that's not something you can accomplish in three years. What's more, you can just as easily extend Ash's participation in the PWC, by having him lose to Leon (because in all seriousness, where does Ash go after beating Leon and being the no. 1 trainer in the world?) and simply pivot to challenging whoever Gen 9's Champion is. Or you can expand upon the idea in some way to keep things interesting.

And regardless of how popular an idea it its...

This notion that Journeys has such a limitless format has always rubbed me the wrong way.

This isn't a notion. It's a fact.

Ash and Goh can go wherever they want. They can catch whichever Pokemon they want. Ash has Pokemon Gen 1, 4 and 8 on his team. Goh has caught Pokemon from every Gen and has even captured a legendary. Characters we thought would never return such as Gary and Dawn have come back. They could make an episode tomorrow where Giselle and the random kid from School of Hard Knocks made a return and it'd make complete sense in this story. Gen 8 having some promotion is no limitation when they can replicate that with Gen 9 and beyond.
 
The one reason I can think of for Kanto being the home base, as opposed to Galar, is that Journeys isn't ending when Gen 9 comes out.

They have a format now that can continue regardless of which games come out. It's not on a time limit like older shows which were anchored in the region of the current generation, so when Gen 9 comes out with a new region they can simply visit there. If this is the case - and it's purely hypothetical - it's logical to have Ash's home base be his actual home region, especially now they've established he can go to and from regions in no time at all.

Looking at it this way, there's no real need for a new series of the anime to focus on any one given region anymore.

Another problem is that the PWC is extremely boring as is, due to the lack of 3v3 and 6v6 fights we get with notable characters. Heck, Journeys so far only has debuted 2 out of the 10 Gym leaders, which is just super impractical if they also need to debut the gen 9 characters in Journeys as well in that case.

Ash is already in Hyper Class as well, which means they either have to stretch him in Hyper Class until gen 9 comes out, but that provides another problem in regards to Leon, since they need to set-up the gen 9 champion and make him stronger than Leon, which basically destroys the entire point in Ash doing the PWC in the first place. So this means that they either let Leon be defeated by the gen 9 champion in the PWC or let Ash lose against Leon in the PWC or let him win against Leon, but then let him lose against the gen 9 Champion (Which would instantly means his win against Leon was pointless) and that we are getting a different tournament arc with the gen 9 character at the helm, who has defeated Leon in an unofficial match and as such is seen by Ash as even stronger than Leon. I am keep mentioning this, because by the time gen 9 comes out, Leon will be pretty much old news.
 
Last edited:
but deleting Gou out of Journeys (somehow) solves half of the issues anime has right now.
Actually, no, it doesn't. Let's look over the problems, shall we?
  • The Pokemon
    • Lack of proper screen time for the pokemon and proper treatment as actual characters is a big issue in Journeys right now, and I don't see it going away if we remove Goh from the show. A terribly written Pikachu is getting focus at the cost of Ash's other pokemon-this isn't because of Goh, now is it? Eevee and Grookey both are treated as pets, so I don't see much of a difference in that either. I already mentioned it, but Pikachu would probably still be just as soulless and empty as before, even without Goh.
    • Team Rocket doesn't have pokemon to bond with, making them feel empty and "different" as well. Well, now they have Morpeko, but that's a different problem in of itself and has nothing to do with Goh. Actually, speaking of Team Rocket...
  • The Gacha and Team Rocket
    • I don't think I need to explain this one. Team Rocket's portrayal in Journeys have been sub-par at best, and much of it stems from the issue in regards to the pokemon. They're still used as plot devices, which has been an issue since the anime first started, and at this point it's just a cherry on top compared to the other complains Journeys has garnered.
  • The Episodic Nature
    • Um, yeah. This is probably where most of Journeys problems actually come from and honestly is just as subjective as the other two points I've made. Episodes are often either rushed or dragged on for far too long and the same goes for overall character development sans Chloe, who's only a supporting character. It feels like nothing of note has happened, despite the fact that a bunch of things actually have. It feels like YEARS ago when Ash and Goh were battling for the Galar region against Chairman Rose. Speaking of that dude, what happened to him? Has he ever been mentioned since? Don't think so.
    • While it is beneficial to some, since you can jump in at any time and understand what is happening, it also makes many episodes feel redundant to the narrative and makes filler episodes stand out a lot more. I've skipped ten episodes in a row and still understood what was happening with little to no effort.
  • Plot
    • What even is the plot here? Goh's is one, yes; to catch Mew, which seems like an end goal, but...really? His goal is to catch all the pokemon TO Mew. But despite being presented in almost every other episode, it feels so in the background it's like you can blink and miss it. Goh catches a pokemon! Great, he's only got 567 more pokemon to catch! ...yay!!! :bulbaFacepalm: So clearly, despite what people think, Goh's goal can't be the driving force of the narrative.
    • So what about Ash? He's got the PWC and it has clear goal marks as to when it would end as well, right? Yeah, except it's rushed as hell. And Ash is barely getting any development from it. Or his pokemon. Two of which who has already gotten rushed development. Two of which who had their entire plot solved in their introduction episode, making every appearance after feel hard to get invested into since their problems were already solved. One of which is literally just a gag pokemon with no other purpose. And another of which, fine, if you watch just Journeys, he isn't OOC:rolleyes:...BUT he's unlikable and doesn't have any redeeming qualities-that is not how you write balanced characters. Speaking of characters...
  • Characters and Development
    • Since the pokemon aren't being treated as characters, we have to look at just the humans and what they have to offer. And what do they have? Well, seventy episodes in and Ash has received very little development, Goh's is honestly rather confusing to follow, and Chloe is actually done pretty well, though she could do with more appearances.
    • Leon is barely developed as a character, so is Raihan, Sonia, and the other characters that was important to the literal arc spanning over five episodes. Why should we care about them? No idea. Doesn't matter anymore since now they're pushed to the background.
  • World-building
    • I've already brought up some time in the past my issues with the new take of putting the humans first in terms of the plot, and this actually affects the world as well. Everything often feels lifeless and empty, and some things just don't make much sense, like how it used to be established that you need to battle before catching a pokemon yet suddenly they changed that for this series I guess??? Ash and Goh are research assistants but barely act like it, despite there being a literal schoolgirl in the cast; like Alola, this "school" is heavily underutilized and just feels like background fodder and doesn't really build the world that much, and overall, I'm shocked as to how this series first impressed me with it's world-building in the very beginning but then got lazier as time went on.
    • When was the last time somebody brought up the fact that some pokemon don't exist in certain regions? The Alolan Ninetails episode, you might say. Correction, when was the last time this was brought up solely to make the world feel realistic instead of for plot purposes? ...no? I honestly don't remember. In Unova, it was constantly remarked that Pikachu was rare in Unova, just like any Kanto pokemon; Iris actually thought Charizard was a dragon type, the differences between the pokemon from Unova and Kanto were constantly referenced. Alola spent all this time exploring the Alolan forms compared to, once more, the Kantoneon pokemon, with the help of Misty and Brock. Hoenn and Sinnoh had consistent color pallets in their scenery and unique climates that made the regions easy to recognize. Now, in Journeys, it's hard to tell regions apart. Remember the Cinderace and Lucario episode? How was SO, UTTERLY, EMPTY??? The sense of what this world is and what it's rules are is far more confusing than it's ever been. At least before, there was a sense of continuity. Now? I don't feel it.
The biggest problems in this series that aren't completely subjective largely stem from the writing, not Goh. If you remove Goh, you just add more questions to the narrative and honestly would make things worse. Goh is just an unfortunate result of such terrible writing. Plot-points are rushed, many episodes feel badly paced on their own, many characters don't receive proper development, and Goh himself doesn't exactly get Gold Star development either. The world-building is problematic in that it's mechanics are changed entirely compared to previous series, and it's promised too much and as given too little. The plot is rushed and while easy to follow, just doesn't seem very clear. There's no clear driving force, as these two "goal posts" can actually be dragged out for as long as possible, sans the PWC, which has already been rushed to hell.

Saying deleting Goh from Journeys solves half the issues the anime has right now seems honestly disingenuous to how many issues in Journeys are either subjective or are a result of more technical aspects that don't result from one specific character. It's essentially pointing fingers at nothing. Throw a dart, missed the board entirely-Goh's not the reason for most of the problems in Journeys. Sure, he's got a lot of problems himself, but any problems arising from it only affect exactly that: himself.
 
Back
Top Bottom