• Excited about the recently announced new Pokémon games? Join us here for discussion and speculation.
  • Visit your account preferences to list your favourite Gen 9 Starter, and you'll get the appropriate badge added to your profile!
  • All members are allowed to express their opinions, no matter how unpopular, so long as they respect others and do not claim their opinion is the only valid opinion. While we understand that there is debate regarding Goh, someone posting an opinion you disagree with does not give you the right to attack them or report the content for trolling/baiting. This notice will serve as a 0-point warning and as such, Anime & Manga staff reserve the right to jump immediately to point warnings. For more information regarding our stance on arguments and debates, see this PSA.
  • If you are finding yourself unable to log in, you should be able to fix the issue by following the following process.
    1. Close all browser tabs with any part of Bulbagarden open.
    2. Delete all Bulbagarden.net cookies (and if possible, any cached site data for Bulbagarden) from your browser.
    3. Close and reopen your browser, open a new tab, and log into the forums on the new tab.
    If you've followed this process and are still having issues, please contact us via the "Contact us" link at the bottom of the forum.

Controversial opinions

A Wild Luxray

Hear me roar!
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
7,791
Reaction score
10,551
Losing to Alain's Charizard doesn't mean that Greninja is weak, it means that said Charizard broken BS.
That Charizard was the most broken thing in the anime. The writers really went out of their way to shove it down our throats how OP that thing was. I mean we see it take down 10 Megas in a row, one of which being owned by an Elite 4 member. Then we see it defeat Zygarde. We see it storm through the Kalos League with Alain rarely needing to use other Pokemon. Then in Ash's battle, that thing takes Thunderbolt, Quick Attack, 2 Aerial Aces, a Water Shuriken, and then that mega Water Shuriken they hyped up but amounted to nothing. Then you tell me that thing didn't even have a scratch? That Charizard was broken as hell and never should have won against Ash-Greninja.
 
Last edited:
Anime & Video Game Controversial Threads - Please post in the appropriate one!

Alola

UltraMysteryDungeon, when?
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,361
Reaction score
9,070

Rainbow-Rain

I wanna Scream and Shout and Let it all out
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
2,191
Reaction score
4,846
Alola!

Just a quick PSA and friendly reminder that we do in fact have a Controversial Opinion thread about the Pokémon video games. I've seen several posts here that don't reflect the anime, but rather the games moreso; those users may not be aware of the more conducive environment for their thoughts. So, please keep this in mind going forward regarding the, very distinct, two threads and your posts. Thanks!
Thank you so much! I did not know where to find that other Controversial Opinion thread on here
 

Enzo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2020
Messages
1,528
Reaction score
5,909
Pronouns
He/Him
I was gonna say this in another thread but I figured it could be potentially be controversial enough to fit here better instead:

I believe that, at least up until this moment, Grookey is simply the most useless Pokémon that has ever made into the main cast. Point blank peridod.

It has been there for over 40 eps and is yet to do anything. It's not cute (I do understand that this point is heavily subjective, but most people tend to agree), it's not strong or competent on anything it does, has not used a move up until this point, it doesn't have any arcs, it doesn't impacts any other's arcs for that matter, especially Goh's. Seriously: has Grookey ever helped Goh out in any aspect? I mean, the only thing it helped was to prove Goh's incompetence as a trainer. And to top it all off, it's not even funny in it's gag.

Like... damn. I don't even know what to say. I'm dead serious: even Togepi and Sandy did more than it.
 

Norzan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
2,095
Reaction score
1,189
That Charizard was the most broken thing in the anime. The writers really went out of their way to shove it down our throats how OP that thing was. I mean we see it take down 10 Megas in a row, one of which being owned by an Elite 4 member. Then we see it defeat Zygarde. We see it storm through the Kalos League with Alain rarely needing to use other Pokemon. Then in Ash's battle, that thing takes Thunderbolt, Quick Attack, 2 Aerial Aces, a Water Shuriken, and then that mega Water Shuriken they hyped up but amounted to nothing. Then you tell me that thing didn't even have a scratch? That Charizard was broken as hell and never should have won against Ash-Greninja.
059196d5f1bbfba3a87d0bd25833e32178972394.gifv


That... is something alright. The "take down 10 megas in a row" did make me laugh but then it was followed by me saying what the hell out loud.
 

Rainbow-Rain

I wanna Scream and Shout and Let it all out
Joined
Jun 19, 2020
Messages
2,191
Reaction score
4,846
I was gonna say this in another thread but I figured it could be potentially be controversial enough to fit here better instead:

I believe that, at least up until this moment, Grookey is simply the most useless Pokémon that has ever made into the main cast. Point blank peridod.

It has been there for over 40 eps and is yet to do anything. It's not cute (I do understand that this point is heavily subjective, but most people tend to agree), it's not strong or competent on anything it does, has not used a move up until this point, it doesn't have any arcs, it doesn't impacts any other's arcs for that matter, especially Goh's. Seriously: has Grookey ever helped Goh out in any aspect? I mean, the only thing it helped was to prove Goh's incompetence as a trainer. And to top it all off, it's not even funny in it's gag.

Like... damn. I don't even know what to say. I'm dead serious: even Togepi and Sandy did more than it.
Slight nitpick

Grookey has actually been here for 34 episodes so far but who's counting? XD
 

A Wild Luxray

Hear me roar!
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
7,791
Reaction score
10,551
How would the Charizard X VS A Greninja fare off if Greninja had Rock Slide in its arsenal? The issue I have with it is its moveset. I can allow Water Shuriken, but I'm stumped on why it has Cut, Aerial Ace, and Double Team.
I really think Ash-Greninja should have had Night Slash.

Also controversial opinion: Ash Greninja and Ash's Lucario are overhated.
 

HiroHunter

Limits can be broken!
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
792
Reaction score
1,025
How would the Charizard X VS A Greninja fare off if Greninja had Rock Slide in its arsenal? The issue I have with it is its moveset. I can allow Water Shuriken, but I'm stumped on why it has Cut, Aerial Ace, and Double Team.
Double Team and Aerial Ace has been helpful but Cut should a been replaced by Night Slash.
 

Unireon

僕の心は 君のもの
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
1,332
Reaction score
1,858
The only other thing, first being its lack of closure, I don't like about Gekkouga is its movepool.
Night Slash is an interesting choice, though I favour Dark Pulse instead.
But I agree; what was Cut for, such an useless move. Either a Rock-move, or Dig, would have been better.

Lucario has taken the mantle of Alan's Lizardon, being the current overshilled Ace that doesn't deserve to be that broken.
 

Daren

'Chu can dance if you want to
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
3,224
Reaction score
9,151
The only other thing, first being its lack of closure, I don't like about Gekkouga is its movepool.
Night Slash is an interesting choice, though I favour Dark Pulse instead.
But I agree; what was Cut for, such an useless move. Either a Rock-move, or Dig, would have been better.

Lucario has taken the mantle of Alan's Lizardon, being the current overshilled Ace that doesn't deserve to be that broken.
I saw it suggested once that Greninja was planned to get Night Slash at one point (I believe based off a giveaway Greninja that had Ash's moveset but with that instead of cut) but it was changed because of the rather dark origin of the move's Japanese name being considered inappropriate for a protagonist in a kid's show (the move being named off a phrase for Samurai testing their blade's sharpness by murdering people on the road).
 

HiroHunter

Limits can be broken!
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
792
Reaction score
1,025
I wouldn’t mind Greninja knowing Cut if it were the only one. It felt like this cool outlier attack midst the others knowing Night Slash, until one of the ninjas’ frog also used Cut. And then it lost that charm.
To be fair Ash-Greninja using Cut it became two Kunai.
 

Unireon

僕の心は 君のもの
Joined
Aug 4, 2020
Messages
1,332
Reaction score
1,858
I saw it suggested once that Greninja was planned to get Night Slash at one point (I believe based off a giveaway Greninja that had Ash's moveset but with that instead of cut) but it was changed because of the rather dark origin of the move's Japanese name being considered inappropriate for a protagonist in a kid's show (the move being named off a phrase for Samurai testing their blade's sharpness by murdering people on the road).
I am aware of the implications behind the move's Japanese name.
Being a fan of Samurai and Ninja, that's another reason why I love/chose the Keromatsu line.

But that didn't stop the writers from giving it to other Pokemon.
Sanpei's Gekkouga, and recently, Satoshi's Sir Kamon also used it.

Edit: They could have turned his Night Slash into Kunais, or a Ninjatou, as well.
 

A Wild Luxray

Hear me roar!
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
7,791
Reaction score
10,551
Lucario has taken the mantle of Alan's Lizardon, being the current overshilled Ace that doesn't deserve to be that broken
I don't think its fair to say its worse than Alain's OP Mega Charizard X. I mean at least Lucario CAN be defeated. As a Riolu, he was thrown into a forced losing streak and Volkner was able to defeat Lucario. There's some ridiculous stuff going on like the absurd endurance, but I think the "shilling" is over exaggerated.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

Detroit SMAAAASH! Eevee style.
Joined
Sep 22, 2020
Messages
2,197
Reaction score
7,667
Pronouns
she/her
How would the Charizard X VS A Greninja fare off if Greninja had Rock Slide in its arsenal? The issue I have with it is its moveset. I can allow Water Shuriken, but I'm stumped on why it has Cut, Aerial Ace, and Double Team.
I can assure you that it wouldn't have helped. Alain's Charizard was fated to win, so no amount of powerful and/or super-effective moves would have helped Greninja out: Greninja could have learned the Kamehameha, manifested Star Platinum (with the time-stopping power of The World already there) as his Stand, mastered One For All, and gained all the strength of Saitama's punches, and Alain's Charizard still would have won because the dragon had plot armor and literally nothing can beat plot armor.

As for Greninja's moveset, it was probably intended to emulate the weapons and combat style of the typical ninja: Water Shuriken is self-explanatory, Double Team is there because ninja are frequently depicted as creating decoys to distract and throw off enemies (and one of fellow anime ninja Naruto's signature techniques is literally duplicating himself), and Aerial Ace and Cut are there because ninja incorporated blades into their arsenal (Aerial Ace is based on a sword technique), and this is even evidenced by how when Greninja uses Cut it manifests as kunai-shaped blades of light. Night Slash would have honestly been a far better move for this purpose due to being stronger and STAB, but as mentioned before, its basis was probably considered too gruesome and villain-like for a character who was being built up as a hero and protector of the entire Kalos region and who was essenitally the main protagonist of the XYZ saga, so Cut had to stay.
 
Top