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Controversial opinions

Soniman

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Heck, now that Hisuian Typhlosion is a thing it would be really cool for Dawn's Quillava to become one for even more Legends promotion. Then Ash's Quillava can still evolve the regular Typhlosion variant, which would not only help the two Typhlosions to properly stand out from each other, but it would create a lot of way overdue Typhlosion prominence.

The reason I want Dawn to get the Hisuian Typhlosion instead of Ash is because I feel like it'd be more fitting for the Sinnoh native to have a species variant that used to be endemic to that region.
feel like the people who want this to happen completely ignore the uhh, evolutionary and chronological reasons why this would effectly be impossibly for Dawn to pull off lol, unless they have some twist that Cyndaquil's egg was from the distant past there's pretty much no chance of that thing evolving into it. Heck they straight up state in the first Arceus ep that the Hisuian forms straight up don't exist anymore.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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feel like the people who want this to happen completely ignore the uhh, evolutionary and chronological reasons why this would effectly be impossibly for Dawn to pull off lol, unless they have some twist that Cyndaquil's egg was from the distant past there's pretty much no chance of that thing evolving into it. Heck they straight up state in the first Arceus ep that the Hisuian forms straight up don't exist anymore.
They could always just slap a Dialga-induced time travel plot in there somewhere to make it possible :p

I mean, it's not like more contrived things haven't happened before.
 

Picardluke

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Also it's a lot easier to give side characters like Brock some advancement who aren't in traditional token collecting quests. All you have to do is say Brock went to med school. Give Misty a Mega to show she's become a strong Gym leader. Iris similar by showing Axew evolved and being strongest of Unova.

As I said it's not just Dawn, I think May or Serena will never be allowed to win their competitions either. The only difference is we're actually seeing Dawn again whereas May and Serena are stuck in limbo and might not even show up this series.
 

HiroHunter

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As I said it's not just Dawn, I think May or Serena will never be allowed to win their competitions either. The only difference is we're actually seeing Dawn again whereas May and Serena are stuck in limbo and might not even show up this series.
If Ash was allowed to win a league after all this time. Saying that Dawn, May, and Serena will never win their competitions is a bit much.
 

Hidden Mew

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Also it's a lot easier to give side characters like Brock some advancement who aren't in traditional token collecting quests. All you have to do is say Brock went to med school. Give Misty a Mega to show she's become a strong Gym leader. Iris similar by showing Axew evolved and being strongest of Unova.

As I said it's not just Dawn, I think May or Serena will never be allowed to win their competitions either. The only difference is we're actually seeing Dawn again whereas May and Serena are stuck in limbo and might not even show up this series.
Not really. All they needed to do was to give Dawn some new Pokemon and that probably would have been fine. She didn't need to become a Top Coordinator and I don't think anyone expected her to do so. I don't think it's unreasonable that people expected/hope that she's show up with some new Pokemon, if not just a couple of new evolved Pokemon. It still might have felt weird for her to keep the same team after traveling through multiple regions, but I think people could have been okay with that if there was at least some kind of changes with the team.

I don't think it's necessarily easier to give side characters some advancement either. A big reason why May's return in DP worked was because we saw how much progress she had made in her Johto Contests. She came back with three evolved Pokemon, even though Venusaur was practically a cameo, and had three ribbons. She was ultimately there to help progress Dawn's storyline since the Wallace Cup was Dawn's comeback arc into Contests, but we still saw how much traveling on her own helped May create her own battling style and that her Pokemon had gotten stronger through their off-screen adventures. She didn't come off as stagnant or that she was still effectively the same place she was at the end of AG like Dawn does.

It's also kind of ridiculous for Iris to become the Unova Champion, but May, Dawn and Serena can't win their respective competitions. Granted, becoming the Unova Champion wasn't Iris' goal. She pretty much said that she's still working towards being a Dragon Master and I'm one thousand percent sure that the only reason anime Iris is the Unova Champion is because they wanted to make her match more with her video game counterpart. If Iris was still just a Gym Leader in the games, that's probably what Iris would have been in her return episode instead. But when one former companion is allowed to become the Unova Champion, I don't think it really makes sense to say that other characters can't win their competition. I don't expect May to become a Top Coordinator or for Serena to become Kalos Queen if they do appear, but I don't think it would be unreasonable for that to happen either at this point.
 

PkmnTrainerV

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feel like the people who want this to happen completely ignore the uhh, evolutionary and chronological reasons why this would effectly be impossibly for Dawn to pull off lol, unless they have some twist that Cyndaquil's egg was from the distant past there's pretty much no chance of that thing evolving into it. Heck they straight up state in the first Arceus ep that the Hisuian forms straight up don't exist anymore.

They could always just slap a Dialga-induced time travel plot in there somewhere to make it possible :p

I mean, it's not like more contrived things haven't happened before.
To add onto this, it’s not as if the anime doesn’t have a history of giving their main characters Pokémon that haven’t existed for thousands of years Ash-Greninja ;)
Also it's a lot easier to give side characters like Brock some advancement who aren't in traditional token collecting quests.
I mean… you literally mention Iris in your next line who went into a "traditional token collecting quest" and won it.
 

marshiyanmisuta

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I'll never understand fandom's fixation with giving new pokémon to old recurring characters. People talk about how there is no proof of Hikari's growth, as if some random evolution, a new pokémon, or giving her an off-screen GF win really mean anything. Like, Iris is somehow a champion now, and Kibago is apparently fully evolved, cool, but does it really matter anything? Evolution would be just a decoration.
 

Hidden Mew

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I'll never understand fandom's fixation with giving new pokémon to old recurring characters. People talk about how there is no proof of Hikari's growth, as if some random evolution, a new pokémon, or giving her an off-screen GF win really mean anything. Like, Iris is somehow a champion now, and Kibago is apparently fully evolved, cool, but does it really matter anything? Evolution would be just a decoration.
I'm not really sure I'd call it a fixation exactly when the vast majority of returning characters do return with new Pokemon, newly evolved Pokemon or some kind of sign of progress of their off-screen adventures. Aside from Dawn, the only returning characters who haven't had anything like that were Cilan and the SM cast, both of which I think is more understandable by comparison. With the exception of Kiawe, none of the SM classmates had battle active goals or were particularly interested in catching Pokemon, so not having new captures makes sense. It was painfully clear that the writers didn't have any plans for Cilan during BW, so I don't know if they'd be willing to give him more Pokemon off-screen. Cilan being stagnant makes perfect sense, but someone like Dawn traveling around frequently to different regions with a battle active goal really doesn't.

For Dawn, it would mean that she'd actually accomplished something through her off-screen travels. Without any new Pokemon, new evolutions or any noteworthy accomplishment, it doesn't really seem like all of her travels have really allowed Dawn to grow or make any further progress from when she last appeared in the anime. Getting new Pokemon or having Pokemon evolve off-screen is pretty much the easiest way to show how much a character has grown after leaving the cast, so I don't think it's unreasonable for fans hoping/expecting Dawn to get something new after all this time. Based on what I've seen, plenty of Iris fans were happy about her becoming the Unova Champion and getting a Haxorus. I still think it's terribly unbelievable, but there were plenty of fans who liked it. I could understand the notion of evolution just being a decoration if it wasn't more typical for returning characters to come back with evolved Pokemon.
 
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Picardluke

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Brock's new capture he got in SM didn't appear this time, so it shows why a lot of new captures really don't matter. The last new pokemon Misty got was Azurill and it hasn't ever appeared again since AG in 15 years. I do think Dawn should have got something new but I don't really mind too much. And in fact some new evolutions are unnecessary like the 3 second still-screen image of May's Venusaur that we never saw after that with no explanation. Not even any animation to its scene.
 

Hidden Mew

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Brock's new capture he got in SM didn't appear this time, so it shows why a lot of new captures really don't matter. The last new pokemon Misty got was Azurill and it hasn't ever appeared again since AG in 15 years. I do think Dawn should have got something new but I don't really mind too much. And in fact some new evolutions are unnecessary like the 3 second still-screen image of May's Venusaur that we never saw after that with no explanation. Not even any animation to its scene.
I think that's a pretty harsh. Just because Brock's Comfey didn't appear in a special more focus on DP nostalgia, if Brock's inclusion with his DP outfit and Croagunk were any indication, doesn't mean that it didn't matter or that new captures in general don't matter. Comfey still connected to his goal and allowed Brock to show his progress as a Pokemon Doctor in-training during his Alola vacation. Just because it didn't show up here doesn't mean that all of that is suddenly meaningless now. Misty's Azuril hasn't been seen since AG, but that doesn't make it pointless or unnecessary either. Their SM appearances were more interested in showcasing their more iconic/recognizable Pokemon. Plus, the fact that Misty got a Mega Pokemon still effectively does the same job as a new Pokemon capture would.

I wouldn't say that May's Venusaur was an unnecessary evolution exactly. I do think it was a poor decision to give it just a five second cameo and given that it was at Professor Oak's lab the last time we saw it as a Bulbasaur, it was kind of sudden for it to fully evolve. Giving her an Ivysaur would have made a bit more sense, especially when she already had a Wartortle and I don't think Bulbasaur had enough on-screen battles and training to make it fully evolve off-screen quite work. Despite all that, I wouldn't call it unnecessary. It does fit with how some of May's other Pokemon had evolved off-screen and showed that her off-screen adventures made her Pokemon stronger. They just really should have given it an on-screen battle instead of a blink and you'd miss it cameo. I can kind of see why they didn't have her use it in the battle against Zoey. Beautifly was her first Pokemon capture, so they'd want to showcase that more than Venusaur, but it would have been nice for her Venusaur to get something to do.
 

Picardluke

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The thing is most captures like that are just a novelty and nothing to get excited over. Even if Comfrey appears in a future Brock cameo is it really going to do much? I also remember people disliking Azurill back in the day since it just came across as a Togepi replacement and sat in Misty's arms the same way, but then we never saw it again anyway so now it doesn't matter at all.

Iris captured a Gible in a BW special that was never used again either. It really just proves how characters getting a new pokemon is just a minor novelty at best most of the time. May's Venusaur felt more like a blink and you'll miss it moment, it was on-screen for 3 seconds in one of those still-screen images that have no animation. Most of the time post-series captures come across as forgettable at best unless they're handled really well like Misty's Gyarados was which I think is the only shining exception
 

Hidden Mew

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The thing is most captures like that are just a novelty and nothing to get excited over. Even if Comfrey appears in a future Brock cameo is it really going to do much? I also remember people disliking Azurill back in the day since it just came across as a Togepi replacement and sat in Misty's arms the same way, but then we never saw it again anyway so now it doesn't matter at all.
Honestly, I remember people liking Azuril back in the day. It was clearly a Togepi replacement, but because it wasn't useless, actually using a move to heal Pikachu and didn't cause trouble, which admittedly could have been due to the little amount of screentime it had, I remember people saying that it was an improved version of Togepi. I'm sure that some people didn't like it too, but I don't know if that was the vast majority of online fans either. I definitely remember some people here wondering/hoping that it would appear as a Maril during Misty's SM episodes too.

Iris captured a Gible in a BW special that was never used again either. It really just proves how characters getting a new pokemon is just a minor novelty at best most of the time. May's Venusaur felt more like a blink and you'll miss it moment, it was on-screen for 3 seconds in one of those still-screen images that have no animation. Most of the time post-series captures come across as forgettable at best unless they're handled really well like Misty's Gyarados was which I think is the only shining exception
Admittedly, I forgot about Iris' Gible and I can't really judge it when I've never seen the special where she caught it. However, I think calling characters getting new Pokemon a minor novelty at best is still kind of harsh and dismissive. Since these characters aren't going to be part of the main cast, of course their new Pokemon aren't going to get a ton of screentime. I wouldn't call signs of growth from off-screen adventures minor novelties and they certainly aren't pointless. It allow the audience to see that even though we don't get to see their new adventures, they're still working towards their goals and making progress. I think that's way more important than you're giving it credit for. As poorly handled as Venusaur's cameo was, I don't think that it negates that May had been working hard in Johto and as a result had a stronger team than she did at the end of AG.

Aside from Gible, I wouldn't really say that the post-series captures are forgettable and even in Gible's case, most of that is due to how I never saw Iris' special. Gyarados, Azuril and Comfey are pretty memorable. The evolutions for May and Dawn's teams also stand out as pretty memorable.
 

cricketlaxwolvesbandy

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Party Dancespades is one of my most hated episodes ever. I never will go as low to death threat the writers over it, but I am pissed that Ash and Serena didn’t dance. The only thing good about that episode was Eevee evolving.
 

Rainbow-Rain

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Brock didn't have his Comfey with him for the same reason he didn't have Marshstomp him.

Because those two aren't Sinnoh Pokemon.

And the Arceus Special was to promote Sinnoh.

Literally only Ash and Goh were the only characters who weren't using Sinnoh Pokemon


On that note. I still say that there was zero reason for Buneary to not evolve.

She and Pikachu haven't interacted ONCE despite Dawn making 3 returns in Journeys

So the whole "Buneary wants to stay small for Pikachu " excuse doesn't work anymore
 

PaperSplash

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There are a lot of issues with Ash's Journeys Pokémon team, I won't deny that, but one thing I disagree with the majority on is the decision to no longer restrict his non-Pikachu Pokémon to the current region (Galar). Mainly because that rule being followed back in Kalos is why the writers didn't bother having Ash do anything with Mega Evolution (the region's main gimmick) because it was meant to shine the spotlight back on older Pokémon, which directly ran counter to the anime's MO at the time. And then in Journeys with that restriction finally lifted, it felt like the writers wanted to use the opportunity to get a Mega Evolving Pokémon on Ash's team as soon as possible, which led to Riolu/Lucario's arc which many considered to be rushed and contrived especially after Riolu evolved, and due to the fact that it involved Ash suddenly showing interest in Mega Evolving his own Pokémon, which was not indicated at all in Kalos or Alola.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I'm kinda glad Ash is now allowed to catch non-Pikachu Pokémon from regions other than the newest one, because if we ever get another regional gimmick that focuses on old Pokémon, which I believe is likely, then Ash will be able to benefit from it.
Party Dancespades is one of my most hated episodes ever. I never will go as low to death threat the writers over it, but I am pissed that Ash and Serena didn’t dance. The only thing good about that episode was Eevee evolving.
It's understandable why people who ship Ash and Serena were upset by that episode, but I think it was mainly the result of a misunderstanding between those fans and the writers. Especially around that point in the XY series, Serena's crush was moreso played for comedy than for shipping fuel. You could argue the way that specific episode was marketed was intentionally misleading and the staff were trying to "have their cake and eat it too", but I don't think the writers were deliberately trying to get on shippers' nerves, more so that they weren't really thinking about shipping at all in that moment and while it did seem like they were trying to make people feel a little bad for Serena, it was mainly just something you were supposed to laugh off, not get mad at. That said, I'm not trying to tell you how you should personally feel about the episode; I'm just theorizing about what the writers' intent was to give some perspective.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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There are a lot of issues with Ash's Journeys Pokémon team, I won't deny that, but one thing I disagree with the majority on is the decision to no longer restrict his non-Pikachu Pokémon to the current region (Galar). Mainly because that rule being followed back in Kalos is why the writers didn't bother having Ash do anything with Mega Evolution (the region's main gimmick) because it was meant to shine the spotlight back on older Pokémon, which directly ran counter to the anime's MO at the time. And then in Journeys with that restriction finally lifted, it felt like the writers wanted to use the opportunity to get a Mega Evolving Pokémon on Ash's team as soon as possible, which led to Riolu/Lucario's arc which many considered to be rushed and contrived especially after Riolu evolved, and due to the fact that it involved Ash suddenly showing interest in Mega Evolving his own Pokémon, which was not indicated at all in Kalos or Alola.

I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I'm kinda glad Ash is now allowed to catch non-Pikachu Pokémon from regions other than the newest one, because if we ever get another regional gimmick that focuses on old Pokémon, which I believe is likely, then Ash will be able to benefit from it.
I do agree with Ash being allowed to catch older Pokemon being a good thing in its own way for the reasons you listed, but to be somewhat fair on what happened to Kalos, it's very possible that Gen 6 being abruptly cut short for anniversary purposes had something to do with Ash-Greninja: there's always been evidence that a third Kalos game (or possibly a set of sequels ala B2W2) was planned before the decision was made to push Gen 7's release forward so that the franchise's 20th anniversary would coincide with the arrival of a shiny new Generation, so it's actually kind of possible that the Kalos Starters and maybe some other Kalos mons were meant to get Mega Evolutions in the fabled "Pokemon Z" version and therefore Ash-Greninja may very well have been originally intended to be a proper Mega Greninja all along.

Of course this is all tinfoil hat territory, but just imagine a parallel universe where Ash-Greninja does not exist and instead we have all Kalos Starters getting equal treatment with each having their own fancy super mode...

No, but seriously, if they ever decide to do Gen 6 remakes in some incredibly distant future, they better give Chesnaught and Delphox something.
 

HiroHunter

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I do agree with Ash being allowed to catch older Pokemon being a good thing in its own way for the reasons you listed, but to be somewhat fair on what happened to Kalos, it's very possible that Gen 5 being abruptly cut short for anniversary purposes had something to do with Ash-Greninja: there's always been evidence that a third Kalos game (or possibly a set of sequels ala B2W2) was planned before the decision was made to push Gen 7's release forward so that the franchise's 20th anniversary would coincide with the arrival of a shiny new Generation, so it's actually kind of possible that the Kalos Starters and maybe some other Kalos mons were meant to get Mega Evolutions in the fabled "Pokemon Z" version and therefore Ash-Greninja may very well have been originally intended to be a proper Mega Greninja all along.

Of course this is all tinfoil hat territory, but just imagine a parallel universe where Ash-Greninja does not exist and instead we have all Kalos Starters getting equal treatment with each having their own fancy super mode...

No, but seriously, if they ever decide to do Gen V remakes in some incredibly distant future, they better give Chesnaught and Delphox something.
Um... Don't you mean Gen 6 not Gen 5
 

Hidden Mew

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I guess what I'm trying to get at is that I'm kinda glad Ash is now allowed to catch non-Pikachu Pokémon from regions other than the newest one, because if we ever get another regional gimmick that focuses on old Pokémon, which I believe is likely, then Ash will be able to benefit from it.
Given how Z-Moves and Dynamax have been handled, I don't think that the next regional gimmick will exclusively focus on older Pokemon like Mega Evolution did. There are still exclusive Z-Moves and Gigatamax forms for older Pokemon of course, but they also incorporated new Pokemon. That's why we got Alola starter Z-Moves and Gigtamax forms for the Galar starters. I don't think that Game Freak will go back to handling new forms like they did with Mega Evolutions. As much as people liked the idea and have put Mega Pokemon on more of a pedestal over the years than what I recall during the sixth generation, I think putting the focus exclusively on older Pokemon was a huge limitation, which is why the other regional gimmicks have focused more on both old and new Pokemon.

I can still understand liking the idea of Ash having more freedom in what he can catch. On paper, that sounds really cool, but with the minimal screentime and development his Pokemon have gotten, that freedom doesn't really mean anything. The little Galar representation on his team doesn't help either. Although, that applies for Journeys as a whole too, so that isn't exclusive to just Ash's team.
 

PaperSplash

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I do agree with Ash being allowed to catch older Pokemon being a good thing in its own way for the reasons you listed, but to be somewhat fair on what happened to Kalos, it's very possible that Gen 5 being abruptly cut short for anniversary purposes had something to do with Ash-Greninja: there's always been evidence that a third Kalos game (or possibly a set of sequels ala B2W2) was planned before the decision was made to push Gen 7's release forward so that the franchise's 20th anniversary would coincide with the arrival of a shiny new Generation, so it's actually kind of possible that the Kalos Starters and maybe some other Kalos mons were meant to get Mega Evolutions in the fabled "Pokemon Z" version and therefore Ash-Greninja may very well have been originally intended to be a proper Mega Greninja all along.

Of course this is all tinfoil hat territory, but just imagine a parallel universe where Ash-Greninja does not exist and instead we have all Kalos Starters getting equal treatment with each having their own fancy super mode...

No, but seriously, if they ever decide to do Gen V remakes in some incredibly distant future, they better give Chesnaught and Delphox something.
Perhaps, but I remember Game Freak saying they deliberately didn't give any Kalos Pokémon Mega Evolutions because it was meant to encourage people to use older ones more. They kinda walked back on that in ORAS (depending on your viewpoint since they're remakes) but I'm not completely sure if the Kalos starters would have been given Mega Evolutions per se in a hypothetical third version (and if they did, it might very well have still been a Greninja-only thing).
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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Um... Don't you mean Gen 6 not Gen 5
Fixed. Thanks.

Perhaps, but I remember Game Freak saying they deliberately didn't give any Kalos Pokémon Mega Evolutions because it was meant to encourage people to use older ones more. They kinda walked back on that in ORAS (depending on your viewpoint since they're remakes) but I'm not completely sure if the Kalos starters would have been given Mega Evolutions per se in a hypothetical third version (and if they did, it might very well have still been a Greninja-only thing).
Yes, they did say that, but to be fair that was for the initial pair, and surely by the time the third version update was meant to have come out there would have been plenty of time for old Pokemon to have been used, so it would have been perfectly safe to give something to other Kalos mons besides Diancie.
 
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