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Controversial opinions

Enzo

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No offense to anyone, but we get one "Greninja sucks ass because it didn't beat Zard X!!!" post at least once a week and boy is that tiresome.

No my guys, Greninja's entire storyline didn't got trashed because it lost to Alain's Charizard. Get over it. Yes, it was absolutely unsatisfying to not see him winning and knocking Alain and his Charizard off a peg or two, I know, and I fully agree. But people tend to treat it like Greninja was this absolute trash mon all around because it didn't managed to get past his opponent's plot armor (and most importantly, marketing armor) and all of his accomplishments didn't matter at all because of that.

Also, no fucking way somebody is saying Greninja got it worse than Unfezant. Or Boldore. Or Palpitoad. Or Torkoal. Or the entire JN team. Again, no offense, but there's no way somebody's saying that with their full chest.
 
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Weddingbells

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No offense to anyone, but we get one "Greninja sucks ass because it didn't beat Zard X!!!" post at least once a week and boy is that tiresome.

No my guys, Greninja's entire storyline didn't got trashed because it lost to Alain's Charizard. Get over it. Yes, it was absolutely unsatisfying to not see him winning and knocking Alain and his Charizard off a epg or two, I know, and I fully agree. But people tend to treat it like Greninja was this absolute trash mon all around because it didn't managed to get past his opponent's plot armor (and most importantly, marketing armor) and all of his accomplishments didn't matter at all because of that.

Also, no fucking way somebody is saying Greninja got it worse than Unfezant. Or Boldore. Or Palpitoad. Or Torkoal. Or the entire JN team. Again, no offense, but there's no way somebody's saying that with their full chest.
I mean it IS unpopular opinions.
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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I rather staraptor be the mentor :(
That's a good choice too, but Swellow is the stronger bird, so I felt it'd be better.

Hey, you and Ghost are actually being reasonable about your mentor picks. My imagination is so unbelievably and absurdly wild that I ended up imagining Unfezant becoming the mentor for Greninja. :p
Well, I think Unfezant would just act like an overbearing mom towards Greninja rather than a mentor. She does have a fairly nonconfronational and pacifistic personality, after all XD

And since they both did lose to opponents that they definitely should have trounced just because said opponents had the power of status quo, popularity, and marketing on their side, they can at the very least trade horror stories and console each other over getting screwed over :wynaut:

I mean it IS unpopular opinions.
Actually, the thread's name is "controversial opinions", and controversial doesn't necessarily mean the same as unpopular.
 

A Wild Luxray

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No offense to anyone, but we get one "Greninja sucks ass because it didn't beat Zard X!!!" post at least once a week and boy is that tiresome.

No my guys, Greninja's entire storyline didn't got trashed because it lost to Alain's Charizard. Get over it. Yes, it was absolutely unsatisfying to not see him winning and knocking Alain and his Charizard off a epg or two, I know, and I fully agree. But people tend to treat it like Greninja was this absolute trash mon all around because it didn't managed to get past his opponent's plot armor (and most importantly, marketing armor) and all of his accomplishments didn't matter at all because of that.

Also, no fucking way somebody is saying Greninja got it worse than Unfezant. Or Boldore. Or Palpitoad. Or Torkoal. Or the entire JN team. Again, no offense, but there's no way somebody's saying that with their full chest.
Yeah, I agree. The writers decision to force Greninja to lose to one of the most broken Charizards the anime has ever shown was one of the absolute worst decisions they ever made. It made no sense. Greninja was robbed there. This one loss doesn't devalue all the hard work he did through the series though and his role in the Team Flare arc. While Greninja should have maybe gotten a TINY BIT less focus in XYZ to allow Pokemon like Noivern some more focus, Greninja was handled pretty well and received some great development.
 

Weddingbells

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That's a good choice too, but Swellow is the stronger bird, so I felt it'd be better.


Well, I think Unfezant would just act like an overbearing mom towards Greninja rather than a mentor. She does have a fairly nonconfronational and pacifistic personality, after all XD

And since they both did lose to opponents that they definitely should have trounced just because said opponents had the power of status quo, popularity, and marketing on their side, they can at the very least trade horror stories and console each other over getting screwed over :wynaut:


Actually, the thread's name is "controversial opinions", and controversial doesn't necessarily mean the same as unpopular.
I mean it did say staraptor and swellow do the air battle races with each other. I doubt swellow won every single one of those. But I do find it cute that he and swellow became friends and unfezant joins them. He might of mentor staraptor too
 

cricketlaxwolvesbandy

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Okay.
But why does Greninja get the Bond Phenomenon and Pikachu doesn’t? It makes no sense.
Nuke Ash-Pikachu=goodbye world
 

cricketlaxwolvesbandy

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I don’t like how Greninja is training Lucario. It seems like Greninja is getting no benefit because this is probably going to be its only appearance while Lucario uses this opportunity to get some glorious wins and a statisfying conclusion as possible World Champ while Greninja never did.
Also the reason why Greninja got done dirty worse than everyone else is because it had the most expectations out of any Ash Pokemon sans Pikachu and only one of those expectations was met (saving the world, which is eh... may seem important in universe but I care more about battling achievements and how Greninja was written which was wasted potential)
 

Ghost Diplocaulus

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Okay.
But why does Greninja get the Bond Phenomenon and Pikachu doesn’t? It makes no sense.
Nuke Ash-Pikachu=goodbye world
Because if they did it with Pikachu then it would be harder to find a reason why they can't or aren't using it after XYZ.
There's also the fact that the Bond Phenomenon was said to be connected to Mega Evolution somehow, and only fully evolved Pokemon can Mega Evolve.

Besides, Pikachu would later get his very own fancy powerup in the form on 10,000,000 Volt Thunderbolt literally in the next saga. Sure, it may not have been as well handled as Ash-Greninja was, but it has many of the same beats, including being exclusive to Ash's Pikachu.

I don’t like how Greninja is training Lucario. It seems like Greninja is getting no benefit because this is probably going to be its only appearance while Lucario uses this opportunity to get some glorious wins and a statisfying conclusion as possible World Champ while Greninja never did.
Also the reason why Greninja got done dirty worse than everyone else is because it had the most expectations out of any Ash Pokemon sans Pikachu and only one of those expectations was met (saving the world, which is eh... may seem important in universe but I care more about battling achievements and how Greninja was written which was wasted potential)
Greninja got dozens of glorious wins. The only truly bad loss he has is to an overpowered marketing machine, and one whose power we were constantly reminded of at that. Greninja's other accomplishments shouldn't be rendered meaningless over one single loss.

Freaking Charizard got beaten quite embarrasingly by a Dusclops after its second return in the Battle Frontier saga despite its most immediate return before that having had it winning against an Articuno, and yet you never see anyone claim that the loss to that Dusclops suddenly makes Charizard's honor of being the first Pokemon to defeat a Legendary pointless, so why should Greninja's feats be dismissed over its one bad loss? Especially since unlike Ash's Charizard against Brandon's Dusclops, the Pokemon Greninja lost to was actually Alain's freaking ace?

Greninja losing to Alain's Charizard does not mean he was screwed over or mistreated so much as it was just Alain and his Mega Charizard X recieving plain and obvious favoritism. The writers very clearly respect Greninja and hold him in high esteem, as evidenced by the fact that its return has it playing badass mentor whom Lucario can't even touch. Contrast this with Palpitoad, who had the personality he showed in his debut episode completely stripped away with no explanation and only got to appear in eight episodes in all of Unova. Or Unfezant, who was only allowed to star in one single battle despite there being a handful of other opportunities where she could have shone (most notably Burgh's Gym, which Pikachu hijacked for himself). Or Noivern, who similarly only got one cool moment and literally no Gym participation at all. Or Torterra, who got handed constant losses just to make Infernape look better. Can you imagine any of these guys return with the kind of reverence Greninja gets?
 

HiroHunter

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Or Noivern, who similarly only got one cool moment and literally no Gym participation at all.
To be fair to Noivern there were only two gym battles left when Ash got him and he was too weak for the 7th and there was no way he was going to do anything in the 8th.
 

Weddingbells

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To be fair to Noivern there were only two gym battles left when Ash got him and he was too weak for the 7th and there was no way he was going to do anything in the 8th.
Yeah noviern was kinda screwed due to debuting so late. At least he had a cute dynamic with Hawlucha. Desperately needed those in ash XY team. The only one I can think of is Greninja and talonflame, which let's be honest, was gone by the first few episodes
 

Handy Man

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No offense to anyone, but we get one "Greninja sucks ass because it didn't beat Zard X!!!" post at least once a week and boy is that tiresome.

No my guys, Greninja's entire storyline didn't got trashed because it lost to Alain's Charizard. Get over it. Yes, it was absolutely unsatisfying to not see him winning and knocking Alain and his Charizard off a peg or two, I know, and I fully agree. But people tend to treat it like Greninja was this absolute trash mon all around because it didn't managed to get past his opponent's plot armor (and most importantly, marketing armor) and all of his accomplishments didn't matter at all because of that.

Also, no fucking way somebody is saying Greninja got it worse than Unfezant. Or Boldore. Or Palpitoad. Or Torkoal. Or the entire JN team. Again, no offense, but there's no way somebody's saying that with their full chest.
I feel like the real problem is that the Ash-Greninja story barely had a lot of time to develop. It evolved in XY100, and got released in XY139. That’s only 39 episodes to introduce and conclude the Ash-Greninja idea. People also don’t really talk about it’s time as a Froakie and Frogadier as much, which it spent most of XY in those stages. Frogadier’s best win in my opinion was against Ramos. Overall though, if I have a problem with Ash’s Greninja, it’s simply the fact that they didn’t give it enough time to earn solid wins as a Greninja. Beating Alain’s Charizard or Diantha’s Gardevoir would have been awesome, but as Ash only had Wulfric’s badge and the Kalos League to look forward to after he got Greninja, there simply wasn’t much time to give Ash-Greninja more wins in general.
 

Hidden Mew

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I don’t like how Greninja is training Lucario. It seems like Greninja is getting no benefit because this is probably going to be its only appearance while Lucario uses this opportunity to get some glorious wins and a statisfying conclusion as possible World Champ while Greninja never did.
Also the reason why Greninja got done dirty worse than everyone else is because it had the most expectations out of any Ash Pokemon sans Pikachu and only one of those expectations was met (saving the world, which is eh... may seem important in universe but I care more about battling achievements and how Greninja was written which was wasted potential)
Greninja losing to Mega Charizard X doesn't really mean it was done dirty. I can understand finding it frustrating and disappointing, especially when there was a lot of hype for that match and Ash-Greninja mastering its power, but it doesn't negate Greninja's entire storyline or make it poorly handled. That's a really tough claim to make when there are plenty of examples of Ash's Pokemon through various series, including XY, that were handled significantly worse. Greninja had plenty of battling achievements. One loss doesn't change that. Plus, saving the world is still pretty important, so I wouldn't really write that off as being less significant just because it didn't involve battling.

To be fair to Noivern there were only two gym battles left when Ash got him and he was too weak for the 7th and there was no way he was going to do anything in the 8th.
While that is true, it kind of makes me wonder what was the point of giving Ash a Noivern in the first place. Noivern wasn't pointless per say, but given how late it was introduced, how it was weak to some of the remaining Gyms and the seventh Gym battle was a tag battle to foreshadow Ash Greninja, there just wasn't really a way for Noibat to really do anything. It isn't the worst late series capture. I think that Phanpy is significantly worse, but Noivern really felt tacked on to me.
 

Sai

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Did people think Ash would enter the Kalos League without a full team of 6? Ash's late capture in every series like Melmetal, Gible, Noviern, Glalie, Phanpy, etc. is just to fill a quota and they're just there so Ash gets a full team
 

Turbo

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Did people think Ash would enter the Kalos League without a full team of 6? Ash's late capture in every series like Melmetal, Gible, Noviern, Glalie, Phanpy, etc. is just to fill a quota and they're just there so Ash gets a full team
I think people kinda expected Goodra to come back but for those that didn’t they might of thought of him bringing old Pokémon like he did in Johto and Sinnoh to at least fill his 6th spot or they might not have a full 6 on 6 battle in the league

And I think some people don’t view the later captures as different and hold them to the same standard as the other Pokémon whether it comes to development, battles, personality etc
 
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Did people think Ash would enter the Kalos League without a full team of 6? Ash's late capture in every series like Melmetal, Gible, Noviern, Glalie, Phanpy, etc. is just to fill a quota and they're just there so Ash gets a full team
So? It’s still a valid complaint when one of the protagonist’s trusted partners is basically filler.
 

Turbo

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So how do you all feel about the power ups or in other words the gimmicks?
Mega Evolution, Z Moves, Dynamax

From what I’ve seen people in general don’t like them in the anime seeing them as too strong and not fair since not everyone has them/in battles one side might have them but not the other

So me liking them and other characters having them is my unpopular opinion
As I think they add a new dynamic and dimension to battles as well as cool factor of course

And when it comes to Ash I see people that don’t like that he’s using them where I love it

I guess it comes down to how you view their strength their obviously better than nothing but to me they each have their pros and cons
Dynamax - Great size power and defense (HP) with huge attacks but has a move/time limit and can be avoided
Z Move - one super attack with no drawback and potential good after effects but only one use per battle
Mega Evolution - an overall boost to the Pokémon with no time limit but not as strong as Dynamax and Z moves

Like Dynamax is let’s say +3 on a time limit, Z Move +5 one time attack, Mega Evolution +1.5 to the Pokémon no limit
 

HiroHunter

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So how do you all feel about the power ups or in other words the gimmicks?
Mega Evolution, Z Moves, Dynamax
I say that Mega Evolution was done the best in the anime its a strong power up but it didn't mean that normal pokemon couldn't beat them. Z Moves were mostly used as finishers from what I remember and it was ok but kinda boring. Can't say much about Dynamax because it was the least used out of the three power ups.
 
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