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Controversial opinions

Hidden Mew

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Did people think Ash would enter the Kalos League without a full team of 6? Ash's late capture in every series like Melmetal, Gible, Noviern, Glalie, Phanpy, etc. is just to fill a quota and they're just there so Ash gets a full team
I think that's kind of missing the point. Not to mention it's a pretty terrible way to handle Ash's Pokemon. If they're just there to fill in a quota for the shake of Ash having a full team, then why should the audience be invested in them or Ash's bond with them? I don't think that the idea of a late series capture is necessarily a bad one. I still think that Gible was handled relatively well and people really liked Glalie getting to shine during the Hoenn League. Granted, I never liked Glalie, but I don't think it was handled poorly compared to most of the other late series captures. These late series captures can be handled well, which makes the ones that are handled poorly stand out even more.

Phanpy was introduced far too late to do anything and Melmetal really only had its friendship with Rowlet and its brute force going for it. Noviern did give Talonflame something to do, which was nice, but there was such long stretches of where it did nothing where the writers easily could have given Noviern something to do.
 

Sai

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Noviern battled a Zapdos, tied with Shota's Salamence, and Hawlucha looked after it when it was a baby. It getting two battles in the league is the same as Melmetal getting two battles but not much else since it came too late. Also Gible only got two league battles and Phanpy only 1.

Notice how also all these pokemon didn't get a Gym battle or Kahuna battle in their series. So the writers only intended them as late captures for the league. Snorunt appeared in Juan's Gym but got KO'd immediately.

Ash's final capture in every series was always treated close to the same. They come extremely late in the series and miss the final major Gym or battle, and only get two battles or so in the league and then are done.
 
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Noviern battled a Zapdos, tied with Shota's Salamence, and Hawlucha looked after it when it was a baby. It getting two battles in the league is the same as Melmetal getting two battles but not much else since it came too late. Also Gible only got two league battles and Phanpy only 1.

Notice how also all these pokemon didn't get a Gym battle or Kahuna battle in their series. So the writers only intended them as late captures for the league. Snorunt appeared in Juan's Gym but got KO'd immediately.

Ash's final capture in every series was always treated close to the same. They come extremely late in the series and miss the final major Gym or battle, and only get two battles or so in the league and then are done.
And why exactly is this kind of lazy writing a good thing that we should be supportive of?
 

Hidden Mew

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Noviern battled a Zapdos, tied with Shota's Salamence, and Hawlucha looked after it when it was a baby. It getting two battles in the league is the same as Melmetal getting two battles but not much else since it came too late. Also Gible only got two league battles and Phanpy only 1.
That's still pretty minimal, especially considering when Noivern was first caught. They could have easily given Noivern more battles than that. Gible had more focus and personality even with only being used in the Sinnoh League a couple of times, which is why I'd still consider it one of the best late series captures.

Notice how also all these pokemon didn't get a Gym battle or Kahuna battle in their series. So the writers only intended them as late captures for the league. Snorunt appeared in Juan's Gym but got KO'd immediately.

Ash's final capture in every series was always treated close to the same. They come extremely late in the series and miss the final major Gym or battle, and only get two battles or so in the league and then are done.
Assuming that they are intended to be late captures just for the shake of Ash having a full team for the league, why is that considered a good thing or something that we should be okay with? It's a pretty weak rationale for giving Ash a sixth Pokemon. In the cases of XY and SM, they had more than enough time to introduce these sixth Pokemon and give them something to do prior to their respective League. They introduced Noibat early enough to where it could have been potentially used more in battle and they should have done that for Meltan given that Ash's SM team had an empty slot for most of the series.
 

Enzo

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This might come off as a controversial opinion, but I actually feel like the writers were onto something when they gave Ash his final capture in JN when it was on it's 50th ep.

Of course, Dracovish has been treated horribly because this writing team is awful at their jobs and consequently all members of Ash's JN team suffer from that, but I gotta say: they could've easily given Dracovish to Ash like, from JN80 forwards or something, yet they didn't. Nice idea, terrible execution. Just JN's motto.

I hope they keep this mindset of not giving him a 6th Pokémon way too late going onwards, but of course with better writting.
 

cricketlaxwolvesbandy

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Someone on Serebii posted this and I totally agree with it. This is why I think that Ash-Greninja was wasted potential and was done dirty.

“The problem is that Ash and his journey were the core focus of XY. A lot of the other characters weren't able to get a lot of focus because, more than any of the other seasons, it was the story of Ash and how he inspires and changes the people around him. It was also Greninja's story, and the way their powerful bond brings out their hidden strengths. Alain, when he was introduced to the main anime, was built up as a serious rival; a challenge Ash and Greninja couldn't beat in their imperfect states, but would eventually overcome when they finally got everything right.

In the end, the culmination of Ash's efforts, as well as those of his Pokémon, is this: Alain quickly blitzes through the region in a bid to collect the badges and enter a League he doesn't really care about, just so he could battle Ash. He absolutely trounces everyone in his way, and then becomes the Champion of the tournament by defeating the opponent he was gunning for. However, he's betrayed by a man he considers a friend and mentor, realizes that his strength didn't really mean anything, and then helps defeat the man who helped him gain that strength. In the end, he gives up his Charizardite X and Keystones, and begins a new journey to find a new Key Stone and Mega Stone, this time without relying on Lysandre's charity. And that was the incredible conclusion to Alain's journey.

...wait, what? Wasn't this supposed to be Ash's story?

Yep! In the end, the trainer who took the longer path, the one who slowly built up bonds with his Pokémon and rigorously trained his team to become stronger, the one who helped many people find their paths, the one whose journey we've been following for nearly two decades, the one we were rooting for...ended up losing the fight that everything was building up to. Sure, he helped beat Lysandre and then gave up his strongest Pokémon so it could do some gardening...but how was that an interesting or monumental thing for Ash? What new lessons did he learn? Which interesting moral dilemma did he overcome? Which new heights did he achieve? In the end, what lasting impact did Kalos leave on Ash?

Nothing, that's what.

In OS, Ash matured from a weak and lazy kid who relied on handouts, and became a competent Trainer who could win on his own. In the process, he overcomes his childhood bully and gains his respect as a trainer.

In AG, Ash helps a new trainer find her path, proves that he can enter the Top 8 of a League even when most of his team has fresh recruits, and then shows his true capabilities by defeating the Battle Frontier; a strong challenge in which his older Pokémon get to show their progress against some incredibly powerful trainers. Charizard becomes the first regular Pokémon in the anime to defeat the once-untouchable Legendary Pokémon Articuno, and Pikachu caps off the season by beating Regice, another Legendary. In the end, he's offered a spot as a Frontier Brain, an offer that remains open to this day.

In DP, he encounters the complete antithesis of his training style: a cold and cruel trainer who treats his Pokémon like effective tools, and only trains the strongest Pokémon he can find. Ash loses to him constantly, but in the end, he manages to win the battle that mattered most, that too using a Pokémon abandoned by said trainer. Ash proves that training your Pokémon with love and patience is the superior method, and that you can help bring out the potential in any Pokémon if you try hard enough. Even if he loses against Tobias, it's a battle that ends with his team bringing down two more legendary Pokémon. Ash proves that he's the second-strongest person in the League by being the only person to even beat Darkrai, let alone Latios. He wasn't the runner-up due to an unfortunate bracket, but fourth place is as good as second, as long as we know he's the second-strongest in the region and he beat his main rival.

His journey culminates in Sun and Moon, where he finally demonstrates the lessons he's learned as a Trainer and becomes the first Champion of Alola. He also forms incredibly strong bonds with his Alolan friends, with Kukui sort-of becoming a father for Ash; a relationship we can see even in Journeys. Not to mention, he finally does something incredibly significant that I thought was more unlikely than him winning a League: He catches his first Mythical Pokémon. Despite SM not being my favorite series, it's hard to deny the impact it had on him as a character.

In comparison to these, what did XY amount to? For all the hype, the expectations, the buildup, everything the series was telling its fans to look forward to...

greninja-koed.jpg

We're left pretending that Lysandre was the 'big victory' of the season, but...we've seen Ash go back to Kalos since then. How big of an impact did he actually leave on the region? Not even the Elite Four bring up the massive disaster which one of their members was partially responsible for. The announcer doesn't mention that Ash, the one challenging Drasna at the very stadium where he fought Alain, was the one who saved Lumiose.

In contrast, Ash's Alola Championship is actually brought up when he returns to the region. He's a mentor figure to these two kids he's never met before, who feel inspired by his strength and actions. They look up to him. His league win left an impact on people he doesn't even know. Ash's time in Alola didn't happen in a small pocket dimension where only significant cast members remember anything, unlike Kalos.

Again, this wouldn't be a problem if Kalos didn't shaft basically every other character so it could center everything around Ash and (later on) his 'very special' Greninja, or if it gave him something to achieve, beyond placing second against a trainer he's lost to thrice. He was built up as this incredibly powerful trainer, one who could fight toe-to-toe against a Champion's ace Pokémon. Heck, they even included a scene where a trainer broke down in despair due to not being able to make it, which ended with Ash confidently assuring him that he'd win it all for the ones who weren't good enough.

Kalos, in the end, was empty hype. It felt 'cool' and it looked great. However, the series spent most of its time building up to a huge victory for Ash, which...never happened. It wasn't 'just a league loss', because the only thing Ash had going for him this series was 'LOOK AT HOW STRONG AND COOL HE IS'. If you don't do anything with it aside from a villain plot (and like, Ash saves the world on a weekly basis so it doesn't even feel impressive), it all falls apart. There's no point in building a season that spends literal years showing Ash as this nigh-unbeatable trainer if you don't really do anything with it.”
 

Hidden Mew

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Someone on Serebii posted this and I totally agree with it. This is why I think that Ash-Greninja was wasted potential and was done dirty.
I don't think copy and pasting someone else's post is really the best way to reflect your opinion. I understand why you wanted to do that when you agree with it, but I don't think it's going to make your claim that much more convincing if you have to rely on another post to make it.

Plus, I still think that calling Ash-Greninja wasted potential and that it was done dirty just for losing one battle is kind of annoying and nonsensical. I understand why to a point when the battle was pretty important, there was a lot of hype going into the finals and people definitely wanted Ash to win/Alain to lose. But to say that all of that potential it had went down the drain from that one defeat, that the entire storyline around Ash-Greninja didn't mean anything and that Greninja was done dirty despite all of its accomplishments before and after evolving is just ridiculous. Compared to virtually every other Water starter in the anime thus far and compared to most of Ash's Pokemon in general, Greninja was handled fine. It was used frequently throughout XY, had a pretty believable progression of strength, had some good victories and helped to save the world from Team Flare. I understand being upset over its defeat. That is still a problem with its storyline, but it doesn't make Greninja weak, worthless or done dirty.
 

Handy Man

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Someone on Serebii posted this and I totally agree with it. This is why I think that Ash-Greninja was wasted potential and was done dirty.
While that post was an interesting read, I can’t say I really agree with it. I would argue that Ash did develop in XY, and his arc in that series focused on trusting in your Pokémon more than ever. Throughout XY, Ash tried out different concepts, like Tierno’s dancing battle strategy, which he stopped using once it didn’t work out for him. We also saw him having self-doubt in XY121, which shows that despite how compotent he thinks he is, there’s always something to learn and reflect on. Of course, this had to do with mastering the Ash-Greninja form.

Mastering the Ash-Greninja form was the ultimate test on how to trust his Pokémon, and the form was proof that Ash could truly understand and be at one with his Pokémon. When he first tries to use the Ash-Greninja form, Ash is obsessed with his newfound power and wants to solely win through his gimmick. He later realizes that wanting to win is not enough, thus why Ash-Greninja kept failing for a while. He realized that he needed to trust Greninja, and I feel like this is where a lot of Ash’s character development shined in XY. Once he realized that Greninja needed Ash as much as Ash needed Greninja, only then was he able to master the form. Regardless of who Greninja was able to beat in XY, mastering the form was the ultimate end goal for Ash’s story in XY.

Also, I find it extremely convenient that the Serebii post neglects to mention BW Ash at all. If any league didn’t matter for Ash, it was absolutely that one. Beating your main rival in a 1v1 without both trainer’s full teams on display, losing to a 5v6, and more, make it far more devastating than the Kalos league. Sure, losing to Alain three times in XY is very frustrating, and I really do think Ash should have beat Alain in the Kalos league, but the fact that Greninja didn’t fail his transformation against Mega Charizard X showed how far Greninja was willing to go to help Ash get his big win, even if it didn’t happen.
 

Sai

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That's still pretty minimal, especially considering when Noivern was first caught. They could have easily given Noivern more battles than that. Gible had more focus and personality even with only being used in the Sinnoh League a couple of times, which is why I'd still consider it one of the best late series captures.


Assuming that they are intended to be late captures just for the shake of Ash having a full team for the league, why is that considered a good thing or something that we should be okay with? It's a pretty weak rationale for giving Ash a sixth Pokemon. In the cases of XY and SM, they had more than enough time to introduce these sixth Pokemon and give them something to do prior to their respective League. They introduced Noibat early enough to where it could have been potentially used more in battle and they should have done that for Meltan given that Ash's SM team had an empty slot for most of the series.
Because it's happened for 25 years and that's all they're there for.

Phanpy, Glalie, Gible, Noviern and technically Goodra, the extra BW captures like Palpitoad, and Melmetal and technically Dracovish....they're all there just to fill up Ash's team in most cases but get either extremely rushed or fast development and then they're done because the saga ends.

If it only happened in 1 or 2 sagas there would be a point, but the writers have done this every series more or less. Whoever Ash's last capture is in each series is always there just for a short time and 1 or 2 battles
 
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If it only happened in 1 or 2 sagas there would be a point, but the writers have done this every series more or less. Whoever Ash's last capture is in each series is always there just for a short time and 1 or 2 battles
And yet you still haven’t answered: why is that a good thing? We complain about it because it’s a noxious trope.
 

Sai

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And yet you still haven’t answered: why is that a good thing? We complain about it because it’s a noxious trope.
It's not a particularly good thing for those pokemon but the writers don't seem to care about it. Look at Meltan it just ate things till it evolved.
 

Hidden Mew

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It's not a particularly good thing for those pokemon but the writers don't seem to care about it. Look at Meltan it just ate things till it evolved.
That still doesn't explain why we as an audience should be okay with it. Sure, it's a typical way sixth Pokemon have been handled and the writers don't seem interested in improving it. Even Dracovish has done pretty minimal despite being captured relatively early in Journeys' run, at least compared to other sixth Pokemon. But I still don't think that means we should be okay with poor writing decisions just because the writers aren't interested in improving the sixth Pokemon. It still makes it harder for the audience to be invested in these Pokemon or for their bond with Ash to be particularly believable. Besides that, I just think it's a really bad way to handle Ash's team. Giving him a Pokemon just for the shake of giving him a full team is just a bad way to develop and view his team.
 

Sai

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Most series only about 3-4 of Ash's Pokémon get treated well and the other 2 get much less. Melmetal and Nagandel, Goodra and Noviern, Torkoal and Glalie, Gliscor and Gible, Phanpy and Heracross, etc.

None of his teams have treated every capture the same, and it's usually only his first 3 or so captures each region that get the most focus.
 

Weddingbells

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Why do you think it’s dumb he has all three?
It's not dumb he has all three, but it's a bit odd that he seems to be the only one we encountered that has all three. It's more odd than dumb. Dumb might be a bit harsh. Considering that z moves, megas, and dynamic aren't the end all be all of a battle
 

Hidden Mew

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Most series only about 3-4 of Ash's Pokémon get treated well and the other 2 get much less. Melmetal and Nagandel, Goodra and Noviern, Torkoal and Glalie, Gliscor and Gible, Phanpy and Heracross, etc.

None of his teams have treated every capture the same, and it's usually only his first 3 or so captures each region that get the most focus.
I still feel like you're missing the point. I know that not all captures get the same amount of attention and focus. That isn't ideal either, but that's beside the point. Why should the idea of a sixth Pokemon just being there for the shake of giving Ash a full team be acceptable? The fact that they've given the sixth Pokemon little focus consistently isn't a good excuse, especially when they could have done more with Pokemon like Noivern and Dracovish given when they were caught.
 

Turbo

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It's not dumb he has all three, but it's a bit odd that he seems to be the only one we encountered that has all three. It's more odd than dumb. Dumb might be a bit harsh. Considering that z moves, megas, and dynamic aren't the end all be all of a battle
I get that

Z crystals are exclusive to Alola so that puts Z moves in a weird space since it seems no on outside of Ash (and Misty and Brock) have seriously been there to even consider getting one so unless someone like Gladion is in the PWC we’re almost never going to see anyone else use them

Dynamax are Galar only like literally only in the power spots in Galar which eliminates a lot of non Galar characters but for those in the know anyone can use them

And megas could hypothetically be used by anyone if they have the items but mainly seem to be for the first four regions (Kanto-Sinnoh) but seems the most likely to pair with Dynamax

I think Lance might of been the closest we got as he used Dynamax with Gyarados and in the games he can use Mega Evolution

From the characters Ash has battled no one really seems like the type to have a second one

Yeah all that to say it might be weird that characters don’t have more than one but I think it kinda fits into the specialization that everyone seems to fall into except for Ash (and select others) who always has a diverse team and style, like Bea is a fighting type specialist with Dynamax as her special mechanic
Where Ash like in nearly every battle uses different types and uses a different special mechanic to go that he feels is right

So it’s kinda like saying why do all the type specialists not use other type Pokémon maybe
They become a specialist/master in this one thing where Ash always is a jack of a all trades
 

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While Lucario personality isn't really that interesting to me either. I think some complaints about Lucario being too edgy from the fandom are a bit exaggerated. I feel like he only really played that too cool thing in the cinderace episode and that's it. He seems fine showing other emotions as well. But yeah I agree. I feel like his personality isn't really all that different from korrina Lucario

The only one that felt unique, if I can remember, was Cameron's. The one in the movie, I don't remember all that well so can't say. But I do remember him giving off that vibe of serious and stoic etc.
 
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