Controversial opinions

[PrettySylveon]

Gladion was able to walk and talk by the time Lillie was a newborn. He is most certainly not 10. He's a chuuni, so I'd wager around 12-14.

But it was explicitly stated that Gladion was Lillie’s older brother. Why would anyone debate about his age?

 

[Eitarou]

But it was explicitly stated that Gladion was Lillie’s older brother. Why would anyone debate about his age?

Twins are an option.

 

[Imtnt]

Twins are an option.

At first I thought they are twins or 1 years dif to be honest..
But clearly he is bigger than that after we watched it all

 

[prog rocker]

The games also give the implication he is older. Maybe not by a lot, but definitely older.

 

[jjliang]

How come Kadabra and Jynx have been banned from the anime since the Battle Frontier arc of the Ruby and Sapphire series? Well, Kadabra got banned all because of the Uri Geller lawsuit. And then Jynx got banned again, but this time permanently after her face was recolored purple.

 

[PaperSplash]

The more I think about it, the more I'm actually disappointed Tobias never reappeared after the Sinnoh League and likely never will to be expanded upon. I want to know where he actually got that Darkrai and Latios from, what his other Pokémon were, why he's so strong, etc. Yeah, I know the real-world reasons: he was a glorified plot device to keep Ash from winning. But I feel like you can't just introduce a trainer like him that's so unlike virtually every other one in the anime and not give any in-universe explanation whatsoever.

And then Jynx got banned again, but this time permanently after her face was recolored purple.

Probably because they realized the Pokémon was still polarizing at best even with the recolor and they figured it was better to just sweep it under the rug. Same reason why the old Jynx episodes haven't been re-released in the west even though recolored versions have been made.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Its honestly what made me dislike Alain so much and part of this why his victory in the Kalos League pissed me off so much. I get that Leon is meant to seem unbeatable, but when he steamrolls actual Champions, that's taking it a bit far. Those battles should be closer than they are. This right here is a no win situation for the anime staff. Either way people will be angry, win or lose.

I think Leon is worse than Alain because so utterly flawless he is. Alain got some semblance of fleshing out, we know his motivations and reasons for entering the league (and it was interesting because the urge to battle Ash led him to literally speedrun the quest, was it OP, yes? Was it an interesting character portrayal? Also yes), meanwhile, Leon comes off as a cookie cutter flawless person who is the strongest, humble, gentle, good and everything nice. I really do not find Leon compelling because his core traits are "nice, and the strongest". Why is he so perfect? And why is he so perfect that the anime is literally ruining character arcs (Alain) and ruin all the good focus (Diantha) to showcase him well? The moment Leon gave Alain such a humiliating defeat was the moment I lost all hope for Masters 8, even though the leading battles made me anticipate the arc.

Leon should be getting the metaphorical pitchforks from the people who hated Alain, and then some more for being so utterly pure and flawless. I'd go as far to say that he’s probably worse than Tobias.

 

[PrettySylveon]

Leon should be getting the metaphorical pitchforks from the people who hated Alain, and then some more for being so utterly pure and flawless. I'd go as far to say that he’s probably worse than Tobias.

I was about to agree with everything you said until you said Leon was probably worse than Tobias. I can see why you would think that Leon is a frustrating character, but Leon was never a plot device like Tobias was. Leon also didn’t steam roll people with any legendary Pokémon under his belt.

 

[Daren]

Leon should be getting the metaphorical pitchforks from the people who hated Alain, and then some more for being so utterly pure and flawless. I'd go as far to say that he’s probably worse than Tobias.

I think the main important differences between Leon and Alain are that:
*Leon's a character from the games rather than an OC invention, and even though the anime exaggerated it and he didn't live up to the hype the idea that Leon is uber powerful was set up there (it's even said in-game that Raihan is believed to be strong enough to become champion of a non-Galar region, but he still loses to Leon every time). For this reason Leon's power is not just a plot device designed to stop Ash from advancing; his strength has some thematic reason since the idea behind him in the games was that he was the protagonist of an unseen Pokémon game.
*We don't know Leon is going to win. Alain came under really heavy fire after he beat Ash, since that meant his role in the story was finally clarified and he really was an overpowered pet character and not just being built up to make Ash's win against him memorable.
If Leon does win I think it's safe to assume the pitchforks will be drawn.
Edit: To make a comparison...how popular do you think Paul would remain if he'd beaten Ash in the league then went on the win the whole thing in a series of one-sided Barry-esque battles?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I was about to agree with everything you said until you said Leon was probably worse than Tobias. I can see why you would think that Leon is a frustrating character, but Leon was never a plot device like Tobias was. Leon also didn’t steam roll people with any legendary Pokémon under his belt.

Well that’s my point. At least it was made abundantly clear that Tobias was a plot device. We weren’t supposed to like him or care. But Leon is made out to be something we should care about but it’s never demonstrated why. Tobias wasn’t never the main act- Paul was. But here we're supposed to see Leon as the final act when all he is, is basically Tobias with a nice personality and no flaws.

Leon is presented as the "final act" but actually has nothing from a story perspective for him to be one. He’s just a nice, strong guy.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Leon's a character from the games rather than an OC invention, and even though the anime exaggerated it and he didn't live up to the hype the idea that Leon is uber powerful was set up there (it's even said in-game that Raihan is believed to be strong enough to become champion of a non-Galar region, but he still loses to Leon every time). For this reason Leon's power is not just a plot device designed to stop Ash from advancing; his strength has some thematic reason since the idea behind him in the games was that he was the protagonist of an unseen Pokémon game.

That’s all well and good, but that still isn’t an excuse for him to be a strong, cookie cutter nice person who just happens to be the most powerful. Leon's character has nothing apart from that at the moment, and the anime has fleshed out character motivations beyond the games before, so the anime original vs games characterisation isn’t a very good explanation for me, specially since the anime tends to pick and choose what it adapts anyways.

 

[PrettySylveon]

But here we're supposed to see Leon as the final act when all he is, is basically Tobias with a nice personality and no flaws.

Well in fairness, Leon is the champion of the SwSh games. Even in the games, beating Leon was supposed to end the part 1 of the story mode. While champions aren’t made to be the final act in the anime, this particular arc of the whole anime made Leon out to be that way (due to the change the original formula of the show). Since Leon is already the champion of the coronation series (the series is to determine who is the strongest trainer ever), that’s why defeating him is presented as the main goal since Ash's goal is to be a Pokémon master.

 

[Imtnt]

Well in fairness, Leon is the champion of the SwSh games. Even in the games, beating Leon was supposed to end the part 1 of the story mode. While champions aren’t made to be the final act in the anime, this particular arc of the whole anime made Leon out to be that way (due to the change the original formula of the show). Since Leon is already the champion of the coronation series (the series is to determine who is the strongest trainer ever), that’s why defeating him is presented as the main goal since Ash's goal is to be a Pokémon master.

So whats next if the protagomist cant win in the final?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Well in fairness, Leon is the champion of the SwSh games. Even in the games, beating Leon was supposed to end the part 1 of the story mode. While champions aren’t made to be the final act in the anime, this particular arc of the whole anime made Leon out to be that way (due to the change the original formula of the show). Since Leon is already the champion of the coronation series (the series is to determine who is the strongest trainer ever), that’s why defeating him is presented as the main goal since Ash's goal is to be a Pokémon master.

I don’t really know why is everyone bringing the "He’s the champion in the games" part. The games also gave him character and interactions with the protagonist. In the terms of the anime adaptation my issue is not that he’s too strong. My issue is he’s too strong AND he’s a perfect character who can do no wrong.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I hate Ash’s Lucario because it’s done everything that Greninja should have done. Greninja was treated like shit and I’m still mad that it didn’t win Ash his first league. And the Aura stuff with Lucario is stupid and seems right out of a fanfic with Ash forming the giant aura sphere and looking deformed in the opening and everywhere else in JN

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

1. Ash’s Lucario shouldn’t have happened. I don’t really understand the appeal of him getting one. The bond stuff feels kind of shoehorned to me. The slot could’ve been used towards giving a Galar Pokémon the actual spotlight that Lucario got- maybe Inteleon or Urshifu.

2. Most of the strong feelings towards Alain/Charizard/Greninja from XYZ are way too… personal? I’m not sure but I don’t really see why a 5~ year old saga is being treated as if it was written solely to spite some fans. I recognise the irony of me complaining about complaining but… well sometimes it gets too weird how caught up everyone is about that still.

 

[PrettySylveon]

I don’t really know why is everyone bringing the "He’s the champion in the games" part.

It’s because the anime is based off of the games.

 

[Imtnt]

1. Ash’s Lucario shouldn’t have happened. I don’t really understand the appeal of him getting one. The bond stuff feels kind of shoehorned to me. The slot could’ve been used towards giving a Galar Pokémon the actual spotlight that Lucario got- maybe Inteleon or Urshifu.

2. Most of the strong feelings towards Alain/Charizard/Greninja from XYZ are way too… personal? I’m not sure but I don’t really see why a 5~ year old saga is being treated as if it was written solely to spite some fans. I recognise the irony of me complaining about complaining but… well sometimes it gets too weird how caught up everyone is about that still.

I think if Ash got a Lucario in XY instead of Greninja, it could be much better for Lucario. Animation wise, and plot wise it wouldn't be copycat. I wouldn't change Gninja though in XY. In JN I still prefer Lucario than a new starter. Steel/Fighting type is refreshing for a new ace. If it was Ash's inteleon acting drama queen or unevolved Grookey we would be in a realy madhouse situation..

 

[Daren]

1. Ash’s Lucario shouldn’t have happened. I don’t really understand the appeal of him getting one. The bond stuff feels kind of shoehorned to me. The slot could’ve been used towards giving a Galar Pokémon the actual spotlight that Lucario got- maybe Inteleon or Urshifu.

Back in DP a lot of people wanted him to get one after his interactions with Sir Aaron's in the film plus that Riolu two parter in the show proper. To some extent it feels like the writers throwing in something they may have regretted missing out on back then (plus the species is very popular, which is true of all of his early JN captures).

2. Most of the strong feelings towards Alain/Charizard/Greninja from XYZ are way too… personal? I’m not sure but I don’t really see why a 5~ year old saga is being treated as if it was written solely to spite some fans. I recognise the irony of me complaining about complaining but… well sometimes it gets too weird how caught up everyone is about that still.

People do take it too personally at times, but honestly, I think the finals do feel sort of spiteful when you look at everything (even if I don't think that was intended but honestly we have no idea what was going on behind the scenes and there's a reason there's a popular theory Ash was supposed to beat Alain but it was rewritten last minute); the misleading episode title, the preview showing off the special shuriken that went nowhere, that scene with Ash and the kid who couldn't get eight badges, all the Greninja hype about mastering Battle Bond, Alain being the only major rival Ash was never allowed to defeat...all amounted to nothing. It really did feel like they were trying to make people think Ash would win only to pull the rug out at the last minute. It was such a bizarre setup combined with the generally building discontent with league defeats since Tobias that it sticks in the fanbase's collective mind. Alain returning in JN but not battling Ash threw more fuel on it.
Edit 2: That said the internet does tend to overreact to it--as it does many things.

Edit 3: Part of me also wonders if the Alain backlash was inflamed because the gen 6 games were seen as a low point in the franchise for a lot of players. XY came under heavy criticism for the difficulty drop without a difficulty setting like B/W 2 had sort of implemented (Elite Four with only 4 party members) and the writing taking a step back from gen 5, OR/AS added more controversy by cutting the Battle Frontier combined with the infamous Masuda interview and the tease of the BF in-game (perhaps priming the veteran fanbase to see things as mockery from the franchise and contributing to the Kalos backlash), all leaving people unhappy that Hoenn wouldn't get a definitive version like Johto had, and then the expected "Z" never materialized and left Kalos as the first region not to get a tune-up.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

It’s because the anime is based off of the games.

Did you read the rest of my post?