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Controversial opinions

Discussion in 'Pokémon Anime and Manga' started by SinnohEevee, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. Alola

    Alola "Kiss me once, kiss me twice, kiss me three times"

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    If I was a 10 year old who lived with a parent who is a renowned, professional baker (and I, too, have wanted to bake since an early age), you'd best believe my baking skills will be vastly superior to other 10 year-olds on average. Dawn didn't have that aspect to her-everything about her screamed "novice" in the beginning of the saga. She was slightly better than May despite growing up with the profession.

    And pretty good for her first contest is subjective. While I enjoyed watching it, there was a huge skill gap between herself and Zoey during their Second Round-aside from the advantage caused by the unintentional side effect of Buneary's Ice Beam towards the end of the fight, Dawn had her moves evaded or repelled by Zoey (who made better use of her own moves as well as Glameow's natural abilities). Glameow possession aside, and after that battle, if you told unknowing viewers that between Zoey and Dawn, one of them has a mother who is a prestigious Top Coordinator, who would you think would be the appropriate child?
     
  2. Nicolas721

    Nicolas721 Well-Known Member

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    -Z-moves would be better received if their animation wasn't recycled every time.
    -Ash-Greninja haters should use arguments like "He doesn't have personality or a deep history" instead of "It had too much screentime". There wasn't really much the writers could do with Pikachu, Talonflame or Hawlucha, and Ash needed something to keep up with Megas.
    -The XY series isn't as "action-filled and shonen-like" as people describe it. Before XY093 (a.k.a. 66% of the series) there are 7-8 action episodes (excluding gym battles of course) due to the lack of an evil team. DP and BW had more by that point. XYZ has dramatic moments, yes, but it also has 10+ breather episodes and 5 episodes about Serena's quest.
     
  3. martianmister

    martianmister マーシャンミスター

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    In her first contest she had no problem with peformance stage, her main problem was her lack of battling skills.
    Zoey had more experience, as she has trained for some unspecified time back then and already competed in three contests before Hikari even got her first pokemon. And even then, she only won one of these first three contests, same as Dawn,
     
    SinnohEevee likes this.
  4. Alola

    Alola "Kiss me once, kiss me twice, kiss me three times"

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    In which she hesitated at first and to which her mother commented that her performance was "stiff." In my book, that puts her around the same beginning level as May (whose performance I think was more dynamic, but also had more explicit hangups unlike Dawn who played it safe).

    That's true (although we don't know to what extent-exactly how far did Zoey advance in the other two Contests she lost?), but that just wheels back to my initial point that Dawn also should have been similarly experienced if not somewhat less so given her background. But I digress as we can agree to disagree instead.
     
  5. Juliko

    Juliko The #1 Deerling Fan!

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    I don't know how unpopular or controversial this opinion is, but you know what? I don't care. I'm gonna come out and say it: I absolutely HATE Burgundy from the Black/White anime and still do with every fiber of my being. Not nearly as much as I do Shinji (I refuse to call him by his English name, because my best friend is named Paul and I refuse to associate that name with such an abhorrent character), but good lord is she annoying!

    I cannot fathom for the life of me why people like this girl, because she's flat out terrible! In her very first episode, she tells Ash straight up that she hates his Pokemon and that he should replace them just because they don't meet her standards, and based on extremely vague and uncontrollable reasons, at that! She completely tried to force her views on him and coerce him into releasing his Pokemon, which is not only not her place to do but what Pokemon he has are none of her business. She acts like she's hot shit about everything, is an obnoxious little brat who never stops being a brat about stuff that isn't any of her business, and she NEVER gets called on her terrible behavior! Her later appearances aren't much better! I'm honestly surprised she wasn't kicked out of whatever Pokemon Connoisseur school she was attending. I mean, how would she like it if someone yelled at her and told her to replace her own Pokemon because they themselves didn't like them? Seriously, I wanted to punch her every single time she appeared or opened her mouth, she's that annoying! I don't know why Ash and the others even bother putting up with her, because I certainly wouldn't want to spend even a millisecond with a self-entitled, arrogant, self-absorbed, snobby bitch who tries to make people release THEIR pets because she herself doesn't think they meet her standards. Why do fans of the show like her again?
     
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  6. prog rocker

    prog rocker Well-Known Member

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    Not sure. Did she ever get slight character development, do something amazing, or is comedy potential? Because that's the only reason people would like someone like that.
     
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  7. martianmister

    martianmister マーシャンミスター

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    She's hilarious.
     
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  8. Alola

    Alola "Kiss me once, kiss me twice, kiss me three times"

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    Honestly, the whole Pokemon Connoisseur profession was just stupid and unnecessary to me. Trainers don't need people to judge and tell them about the compatibility of their Pokemon (I just trekked through a hidden, dangerous temple full of danger every corner to catch an exceedingly rare Volcarona, only for you tell me I'd be better off with another one); if I see a wild Eevee, I'm going to catch it compatibility be damned. And usually, Trainers are able to figure out their Pokemon's wants and needs, and provide the appropriate response; I think this was excellently highlighted in the DP saga with Buizel, Aipom, Mamoswine, Turtwig, Togekiss, Gliscor, Chimchar, etc.
     
  9. FinnishPokéFan92

    FinnishPokéFan92 The ocean is my Cloyster.

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    I also think Burgundy is very annoying, but Paul was a very well-written character and arguably the best rival Ash had ever had (and maybe even the best one he'll ever have).
     
  10. SerenaToAlola

    SerenaToAlola Active Member

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    How was Paul well written? I found him unbearable. Perhaps being a cocky douche was more acceptable 10 years ago.
     
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  11. PkmnTrainerV

    PkmnTrainerV Flame Trainer

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    Well written =/= Well mannered
     
  12. FinnishPokéFan92

    FinnishPokéFan92 The ocean is my Cloyster.

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    He was a Trainer who was in many ways like Ash, but his polar opposite when it came to training his Pokémon. He wasn't cruel to them so to say, but he made them go through extremely rigorous training sessions, and if a Pokémon failed to meet his standards, he would release it. Ash of course did his best to try to convince Paul that his methods of friendship, caring, and trust were just as effective (not superior), but Paul simply didn't care to argue with him. He was doing his training in his own way, and that's it. And he was also able to prove its effectiveness, defeating Ash time after time, including that Full Battle where he beat Ash 6-to-2, the first time in the show when a Full Battle didn't come down to a 1-vs-1 showdown. These clear losses even shook Ash's self confidence.

    Then there's the cornerstone of Ash and Paul's rivalry: Chimchar. Paul caught it after he saw it displaying enormous potential, but his training methods failed to replicate what he had seen, so eventually, he deemed Chimchar worthless and released it, only for it to be adopted by Ash. Under Ash's care, Chimchar grew stronger, evolving twice, mastering Blaze, and learning Flare Blitz. In the Sinnoh League, Infernape served as Ash's final Pokémon during his three-part battle with Paul, which ended in Ash's victory, proving to Paul that Ash's training methods were effective and had succeded in making Infernape strong. The two gained mutual respect, and their rivalry came into a satisfying conclusion.

    All in all: attitude isn't everything when it comes to how good or bad a rival was.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
  13. SerenaToAlola

    SerenaToAlola Active Member

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    Yes he had a storyline (I mean duh he is the main antagonist) but to me, he was just one huge cliche. There was barely any nuance to his bratty character and since he was so unbelievable, I can hardly consider that good writing.
     
  14. FinnishPokéFan92

    FinnishPokéFan92 The ocean is my Cloyster.

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    I respectfully disagree. First off, he's not an antagonist, he's a rival. Second, he was a very unique and important rival whose rivalry with Ash was one of the main driving forces of the series. Third, while I admit that it's somewhat subjective, I dare say that 99% of the people who have watched the D&P series would say that Paul was written very well.
     
  15. prog rocker

    prog rocker Well-Known Member

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    Even though he got no character development, no change in attitude at all and is a huge take that! towards competitive gamers?
     
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  16. FinnishPokéFan92

    FinnishPokéFan92 The ocean is my Cloyster.

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    He's not a "Take that!" towards competitive players. He simply represents them. Recall that no one at any point says that Paul's methods were wrong. Ash was just trying to prove Paul that his methods were just as effective.
     
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  17. prog rocker

    prog rocker Well-Known Member

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    I don't know. Looking how unlikable he was, I don't think they think that well about them. Then again, I might be projecting because I really, really hate Paul and most competitive players I have met were "Stop Having Fun" guys that think the games should be designed for them.
     
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  18. Hidden Mew

    Hidden Mew Administrator Deputy Head Administrator

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    I don't know if I'd say that Paul had no character development. While he doesn't have a drastic change of heart or anything like that, both he and Ash grew to respect each other after their last battle. That was the impression I got from their last meeting at least. That is something that neither Ash or Paul would have done at the start of DP. It might be just a small detail, but I thought it was significant enough for both characters.
     
  19. SinnohEevee

    SinnohEevee Well-Known Member

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    Paul was like your average competitive player, only keeping the strong Pokémon And Releasing the rest. The problem is that unlike the games, where Pokémon are just numbers and stats that you collect, the anime treats Pokémon as living breathing creatures.
     
  20. sc190191

    sc190191 Member

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    What rivals had more character development than Paul? I get not liking him, but saying he didn't have character development doesn't really make sense to me. He was the most present throughout the series of any rival Ash has had and he was a much more in depth character than your run-of-the-mill friendly rival we are stuck with these days. Did he become Ash or friendly rival of the week? No (thankfully), but he did learn a lot from people like Cynthia and Brandon and even Ash and eventually gained respect for Ash. We also got the opportunity to learn about some of his motivations through understanding more about his past and his brother (who was also quite an interesting character). He started the show with more accomplishments than most, and shared similar past experiences with Ash, which lent even more intrigue to their rivalry.

    Outside of Chimchar, Paul's Pokemon were shown to respect him. Just like people being different, Pokemon are different as well and some of them may prefer the rigorous training and structure Paul lays out because their goal was in line with his to become as strong as they possibly could be. It only made sense he would release a Pokemon that couldn't thrive under that type of training, because that's when the training style would become cruel, if the Pokemon didn't want to train in that fashion. Even Chimchar was shown to really want to keep training, Paul just went (way) too far because they couldn't seem to get a break through.

    I agree with everything you say except this, they weren't entirely polar opposites in training. I think there were some moments where Ash trained in similar methods, just with a different underlying attitude and different expectations. I think that Ash began to realize too with some of his harder training that they actually did have more similarities in their methods than he may have thought at first, which I think helped lead to them understanding each other better.

    So personally I don't like his personality, but I LOVE him as a character. He had a massive impact on the DP series and made it a lot better than it would have been had he not been present. It was refreshing to see interactions that aren't bubbly and friendly all the time, but aren't forced (like Trip). His story was better planned out (and less inconsistent) than Gary's was and so I think he was certainly the best rival we have had. Based on the directions of the games and anime, I worry we will not see a rival of this depth and quality in the future.
     
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