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Controversial opinions

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Aether arc was messy and there were a lot of issues with the arc and even with all these issues it managed to have a well executed family drama which saves the arc from being a 5/10 to a 6/10 and I believe that it gets more hate than it deserves. This is something I like about SM, all of its arcs are flawed, but they manage to convey what they wanr.
 
Rewatching the Necrozma Arc convinced me to forgive it for what I thought was a sin, not having action scenes at the end. The arc was about sharing, taking the peaceful way and not judge a book by its cover, so it made sense. However it did have two sins that convinced me the thing was pointless:1) Necrozma didn't have a character, everything about it was told by the same story, but we don't know if he shared its light with Alola because he was good or just because of instinct. Its normal form appeared in less than 10 minutes and its Ultra form for less than 10 seconds, so I didn't feel sorry for him at all. Making him a talking Pokemon would have been a good solution. And 2) Nobody had to sacrifice anything to save Necrozma, making the decision of helping it very simple and making the message much weaker. They should have spent one week without Z-moves or something like that. And what kind of light or energy was coming from their hands was never explained.

The Nebby Arc has an almost insulting ending, I know, but it's not like the Necrozma Arc didn't have DEMs: Lunala having its Z-crystal stored on its neck :lapras: and Z-moves becoming usable again magically both in Alola and in Poipole's world which is supposed to have less light. The Nebby Arc has a coherent story from the start to the part where Lillie confronts her mom, their inability to speak to each other about their concerns caused a crisis that could have been prevented. If the Nebby Arc had been written in the Necrozma Arc's style, everyone hugging their mom would have solved Lillie and Lusamine's issues magically.
 
Nicolas721 said:
Rewatching the Necrozma Arc convinced me to forgive it for what I thought was a sin, not having action scenes at the end. The arc was about sharing, taking the peaceful way and not judge a book by its cover, so it made sense. However it did have two sins that convinced me the thing was pointless:1) Necrozma didn't have a character, everything about it was told by the same story, but we don't know if he shared its light with Alola because he was good or just because of instinct. Its normal form appeared in less than 10 minutes and its Ultra form for less than 10 seconds, so I didn't feel sorry for him at all. Making him a talking Pokemon would have been a good solution. And 2) Nobody had to sacrifice anything to save Necrozma, making the decision of helping it very simple and making the message much weaker. They should have spent one week without Z-moves or something like that. And what kind of light or energy was coming from their hands was never explained.
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I wouldn't say that those make the arc pointless, but I understand some of these complaints. Since I was never a huge fan of Necrozma, I don't think not having a character bothered me. It was just there to serve as a means to promote US/UM, while also tying into the setup they had already provided through Poipole. That being said, that does make Necrozma look more like a plot device rather than a Legendary Pokemon. I think it might have helped that the arc never tried to make the audience feel bad for Necrozma, or at least I didn't get that impression. There was much more concern for Solgaleo, Lunala and the fates of both Alola and Poipole's world than Necrozma itself. I can kind of understand being upset at the lack of action scenes, but I think that's one reason why I liked the resolution. It felt refreshing to have everyone help save the day and it felt pretty fitting and satisfying to see.

I don't think that the lack of sacrifices to save Necrozma weakens the message. It makes the message clearer, but I don't think that necessarily weakens it, especially when the anime is not known for being subtle. Given the setup, I don't think it would have made sense for them to wait a week before being able to save Necrozma. Ash and his friends would have done anything to save everyone with or without making a big sacrifice in order to save Necrozma, so I'm not sure how that is a problem, or at least how that is a significant one. I figure that the energy coming out of their hands was Ultra Aura. It was a weird concept to introduce, but since the light of Z-Moves helped to save Necrozma, I assumed that the energy people and Pokemon were sending its way was basically the same kind of energy.

Nicolas721 said:
The Nebby Arc has an almost insulting ending, I know, but it's not like the Necrozma Arc didn't have DEMs: Lunala having its Z-crystal stored on its neck :lapras: and Z-moves becoming usable again magically both in Alola and in Poipole's world which is supposed to have less light. The Nebby Arc has a coherent story from the start to the part where Lillie confronts her mom, their inability to speak to each other about their concerns caused a crisis that could have been prevented. If the Nebby Arc had been written in the Necrozma Arc's style, everyone hugging their mom would have solved Lillie and Lusamine's issues magically.
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I'm not saying that the Necrozma had perfect writing from start to finish. Lunala's Z-Crystal came right out of nowhere, the concept of Ultra Aura that affects anyone entering the Alola region was still weird and as cool as it was to see see some Team Rocket grunts be involved, they didn't get to do much beyond making it easier for Necrozma to absorb Solgaleo. Not to mention Incineroar defeating Mega Aggron so quickly was a bit anticlimactic. Although, they could still be using that to setup for Team Rocket considering that Giovanni was so interested in The Blinding One. I just thought that the Necrozma arc had overall better pacing and payoff than the Aether Foundation arc did. It wasn't a bad arc, but I still feel like the significant changes they made to Lillie and Lusamine made it much less engaging and satisfying for me. Even without comparing it to the games, Lillie's relationship with her mother just never seemed that bad to me, certainly not enough to where Lillie saying that she hates Lusamine felt justified, believable or emotionally satisfying. Lusamine was often too busy to register how her children were feeling, but she was clearly still a loving and caring mother. Granted, at least part of this could be that I'm well outside of the target demographic, so an overly affectionate parent probably won't sound as annoying to me compared to a ten year old kid, but considering that was one of the main personal conflicts of the arc, having it fall flat really weakened it for me. The shallow fanservice from the games like Lillie's Z-Powered form didn't help matters either.

I don't think it's entirely fair to compare how the two arcs were resolved though. Regardless of my feelings on how their relationship was handled, the conflict in the Aether arc was a lot more personal, so it would come down to Lillie reaching out for her mother while everyone else fought off the other Pokemon. The conflict with Necrozma was more of a danger to world, or at least the Alola region, so the resolution coming down to everyone sharing their energy to help restore felt fitting, especially when they already set that up pretty much from the start of the arc. Everyone hugging their mother wouldn't have saved Lusamine like sending Ultra Aura saved Necrozma.
 
Hidden Mew said:
Even without comparing it to the games, Lillie's relationship with her mother just never seemed that bad to me, certainly not enough to where Lillie saying that she hates Lusamine felt justified, believable or emotionally satisfying. Lusamine was often too busy to register how her children were feeling, but she was clearly still a loving and caring mother. Granted, at least part of this could be that I'm well outside of the target demographic, so an overly affectionate parent probably won't sound as annoying to me compared to a ten year old kid, but considering that was one of the main personal conflicts of the arc, having it fall flat really weakened it for me.
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There is a bit more too it than just Lusamine being so busy to know her kids feelings. She was VERY VERY neglectful of her kids, where the heck was she when Lillie got traumatized? Nowhere to be seen and she didn't even know her kid wandered off into the labs.... where Faba was messing with Ultra Wormholes and accidentally brought in a Nihilego. Not even figuring out how it happened and it resulted in Gladion thinking the worse, stealing Type:Null and wanting to defend Lillie by himself... without telling anyone.

The fact Lusamine wasn't really there for Lillie when the girl needed her, is one reason why Lillie would be pissed off.

Then we have Lusamine herself, giving attention/ smothering affection to Lillie when it wasn't wanted, wasn't needed and basically, treating Lillie like a baby instead of as a growing kid. Or better yet, give that unwanted attention and only give her part of it, pretty much ditching her kid/ putting her kid aside for work. Another incident where Lillie would be pissed off if it has been going on for a while. (Which it was!)

Finally, the Mother Beast episodes.... the entire time Lusamine was acting like a child throwing a temper tantrum, via Molly Hale. Most of the Aether Arc, prior to Lusamine getting a wake up call, was this woman treating Lillie like a baby. When this woman started acting like one herself and wouldn't listen to the heroes when they try to rescue her. (All be, no thanks to Nihilego drugs!)
That is the reason why Lillie said "I hate you"... to say something that would pierce the drugged fog. To get Lusamine into some form of sense and to know once and for all that she needs to grow up as both a person and as a parent,.
It... worked... least until Nihilego took over and tried to eat Lusamine with her own hair. Then we had the Ash pull scene.
 
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ZDaemon09 said:
There is a bit more too it than just Lusamine being so busy to know her kids feelings. She was VERY VERY neglectful of her kids, where the heck was she when Lillie got traumatized? Nowhere to be seen and she didn't even know her kid wandered off into the labs.... where Faba was messing with Ultra Wormholes and accidentally brought in a Nihilego. Not even figuring out how it happened and it resulted in Gladion thinking the worse, stealing Type:Null and wanting to defend Lillie by himself... without telling anyone.

The fact Lusamine wasn't really there for Lillie when the girl needed her, is one reason why Lillie would be pissed off.
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That is a good point. Lusamine was at best oblivious about what happened to Lillie. The fact that she seemingly never questioned how and why Lillie developed such an intense fear of touching Pokemon is pretty bad and Gladion was right to call her out on that. However, Lusamine apologized to Lillie right after Gladion pointed that out to her and she protected Gladion from being capturd by Nihilego. I'm not saying that instantly negates her flaws as a parent. Apologizes rarely instantly fix big mistakes like that, but I do think that said a lot about Lusamine. She still genuinely cared about her children and recognized that she was neglectful towards them in spite of that love. That doesn't make their relationship that bad all things considered, or at least I didn't get that impression from the arc.

ZDaemon09 said:
Then we have Lusamine herself, giving attention/ smothering affection to Lillie when it wasn't wanted, wasn't needed and basically, treating Lillie like a baby instead of as a growing kid. Or better yet, give that unwanted attention and only give her part of it, pretty much ditching her kid/ putting her kid aside for work. Another incident where Lillie would be pissed off if it has been going on for a while. (Which it was!)

Finally, the Mother Beast episodes.... the entire time Lusamine was acting like a child throwing a temper tantrum, via Molly Hale. Most of the Aether Arc, prior to Lusamine getting a wake up call, was this woman treating Lillie like a baby. When this woman started acting like one herself and wouldn't listen to the heroes when they try to rescue her. (All be, no thanks to Nihilego drugs!)
That is the reason why Lillie said "I hate you"... to say something that would pierce the drugged fog. To get Lusamine into some form of sense and to know once and for all that she needs to grow up as both a person and as a parent,.
It... worked... least until Nihilego took over and tried to eat Lusamine with her own hair. Then we had the Ash pull scene.
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[/quote]

I can understand how that would upset her, but I didn't think that Lusamine really treated Lillie like a baby. She was overly affectionate when Lillie didn't want that, but that didn't really come off as treating her like a baby to me. Plus, the whole parents being too busy to be with their kids conflict is a bit cliche. It's an understandable conflict that a lot of kids can relate to and I remember feeling like that with my parents when I was little, but it's usually more effective when the parents don't show any visible care or emotions towards their children. Even with the unwanted smothering/affection, Lusamine still clearly loved Lillie, so the whole not having enough time to be with her making her more upset kind of fell flat for me in that regard.

That being said, I think that this might have worked if Lillie's relationship with Lusamine was established early on in SM instead of saving it for the middle of the series. Same with the Nebby storyline in general now that I think about it. Both Nebby and Lusamine play key roles in Lillie's storyline in the games and there's buildup to their confrontation. Introducing Nebby and Lusamine just a few episodes before their storylines are resolved really weakens the impact for all of the characters involved. Granted, covering the video game's storyline/climax within an arc instead of spreading it throughout the series is fairly typical for the anime and the arc itself was about twelve episodes, but I think trying to gram in their adaptation of the Sun/Moon storyline within one arc definitely weakened the message they were going for at least for me. Having more time to flesh out Lillie's relationship with Lusamine and having to deal with her feelings towards her mother before it became front and center might have made it more emotionally effective when Lillie tried to save her from Nihilego.
 
Whole Aether arc only happened because everyone was either too stupid or too neglectful.

Lilie was angry at her mother because she evolved a pokemon. She's traumatized because she was randomly walking around dangerous experiments.
Lusamine was oblivious to everything happening to her children and in her foundation. Apparently she didn't notice what happened to her children.
Gladio abandoned his family on the word of one of his mother's employees.
Sauboh thought that mindwiping his boss' children is a more acceptable solution than telling the truth about what accidentally happened to Lilie.
Everyone instantly forgave Sauboh, and even invited him to the wedding.
 
I'm honestly still pretty upset that Faba was instantly forgiven. There was just no sign that he actually felt bad for what he did until the wedding and even then, what he did to Lille was pretty awful. He erased her mind once and attempted to do it again, but he just got a slap on the wrist at best. Granted, his punishment in the games was pretty light too, especially when he actively endangered Alola with the Team Rainbow Rocket plot in US/UM, but this seemed even worse by comparison. I'm not sure if keeping him around has really helped the Aether Foundation with the Ultra Beast. He's mainly there as comedy relief, so I'm not sure what they really get out of not writing him out of the series, aside from learning that Professor Kukui is the Masked Royal.

Lillie being upset that Lusamine evolved her own Pokemon also really rubbed me the wrong way. Since that was their first on-screen argument, I don't think that helped to make Lillie's issues with her mother more convincing. If anything, that was the first time I actually sided with Lusamine, which was such a weird feeling for me. Clefable is Lusamine's Pokemon, not Lillie's, so it wasn't up to Lillie to decide whether or not Clefable should evolve. I can kind of understand why it would bother her in a sense considering she played with Clefable a lot as a Cleffa and Clefairy and I think that she was younger when Lusamine evolved Clefable, but she was upset because it was much cuter as a Clefairy. That was a pretty selfish and childish reason to be upset at Lusamine. Lillie is obviously a child, but if that was supposed to indicate that Lusamine is oblivious to her children's feelings or that she doesn't take them into account, then I don't think it worked when Lillie comes out looking more selfish than Lusamine. If Clefable was Lille's Pokemon instead of Lusamine's, then I think Lillie's anger would be much more justified than being upset that her mother chose to evolve her own Pokemon without asking her daughter first.
 
In the Pokémon Adventures manga, Kukui is able to recognize Lillie's little companion, Nebby, as the Legendary Pokémon Cosmog. That is fine. You should expect a Professor to know something about rare Pokémon. But later, the Rotom Pokédex gets zapped by a Xurkitree near an Ultra Wormhole and shuts down from the shock, and when it later wakes up, it utters the word, "Necrozma". And both Kukui and Burnet are like, "What's that? Never heard of it." Burnet is even happily smiling while Mantine Surfing as she says this, like it's not that big of a deal. What? Kukui, who was able to recognize Cosmog, and Burnet, whose job involves studying other dimensions, are both unable to recognize Necrozma's name? This baffles and frustrates me to practically no end.
 
I don't know if this is a CO or not but am I the only one who gave up on SM. If felt so boring and hollow and I stopped caring. And as for the ep I gave up of it was ep 98.
 
HiroHunter said:
I give 100 and 101 a look at. But as for 108 because of how little I care about Mallow I likely won't watch it.
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ZDaemon09 said:
It is also the episode that redeemed Mallow as a character for me. She isn't close to the top, but it explains a few things about her.
Click to expand...
I personally like Mallow. But yeah, you should definitely watch episode 108, Hiro. I guarantee that it'll raise your opinion on her.
 
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