Controversial opinions

[Hidden Mew]

I heard that there was even a petition to overturn the results of the final match, which amassed thousands of signatures. I think that is going more than a little too far.

There were online petitions, but I was thinking more along the lines of people showing pictures of Pokemon merchandise in the trash and swearing off the anime for good. The latter can be a more understandable reaction by comparison, but it still felt a bit much all things considered. Fortunately, it didn't take long for the backlash to calm down, but it was pretty intense. While Alain isn't as widely hated like Tobias, the Kalos League finale itself is probably still rather infamous among fans.

 

[DarkraiKnight]

There were online petitions, but I was thinking more along the lines of people showing pictures of Pokemon merchandise in the trash and swearing off the anime for good. The latter can be a more understandable reaction by comparison, but it still felt a bit much all things considered. Fortunately, it didn't take long for the backlash to calm down, but it was pretty intense. While Alain isn't as widely hated like Tobias, the Kalos League finale itself is probably still rather infamous among fans.

I still feel sad whenever I see people online who refuse to let the whole thing go. Like, I get that the writers may have (kind of) brought it upon themselves, but it’s been over two years at this point.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

I don't think that people were overanalyzing the title. It was an assumption, but it was a pretty reasonable assumption all things considered. Ash had already battled to Alain twice, seemingly came close to defeating him in their second match before Ash Greninja was perfected and even making him ridiculously overpowered could have seen as building up to Ash's eventual victory. The title was just another reason why people thought that Ash was going to win. If that was the main reason people thought he was going to win, maybe it would have been more like reading too much into it, but it was another reason why the Kalos League had so much hype behind it.

There were many things I believed were signs that Ash was going to beat Alain, and I still think its ridiculous that they never gave Ash a chance to defeat his overpowered Mega Charizard X.

-Ash has lost to Alain three times prior to the league. NORMALLY, they let Ash defeat rivals he previously lost to on multiple occasions.
-Ash actually put together a well trained team that did not have multiple unevolved Pokemon.
-Alain’s constant remarks of how he would never lose again and watching his never ending win streak actually made me think they would make him lose to teach him that he’s not invincible like he thought.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

-Alain’s constant remarks of how he would never lose again and watching his never ending win streak actually made me think they would make him lose to teach him that he’s not invincible like he thought.

That is exactly why I wanted Alain to lose! Not maybe at the League, but at some point. He was becoming obsessed with getting stronger, and wasn't even seeing that because he kept on winning.

 

[Shadao]

I don't think that people were overanalyzing the title. It was an assumption, but it was a pretty reasonable assumption all things considered. Ash had already battled to Alain twice, seemingly came close to defeating him in their second match before Ash Greninja was perfected and even making him ridiculously overpowered could have seen as building up to Ash's eventual victory. The title was just another reason why people thought that Ash was going to win. If that was the main reason people thought he was going to win, maybe it would have been more like reading too much into it, but it was another reason why the Kalos League had so much hype behind it.

Personally, I was still firmly of the option that Team Flare was going to interrupt the Kalos League and we'd get a conclusion later even when the title first came out. I'm not sure if that would have been better than having Ash lose right off the bat or not. Still, I can't really blame people for thinking he was going to win. I do think that the immediate backlash was too intense in some cases, especially during the first couple of weeks after the match happened, but I can understand why people were upset that he ended up losing. I doubt that any other League is going to get the same kind of attention and hype the Kalos League had among fans and that is kind of sad.

To be quite frank to you, it was the backlash (or back then, the potential backlash) that allowed me to safely bet Ash winning the Kalos League. Even before the League was announced. I remember thinking to myself that XY Ash is pretty much badass incarnate and the best battler compared to his previous incarnation. No dumb novice moments nor a streak of losses. His chances are significantly higher than usual, and thus create higher expectations that has to be fulfilled... or else there'll be a backlash of an epic proportion. A backlash so large it might actually shake the anime producers to the core. No matter what the outcome was, the burden was always going to be placed on the team who makes these episodes. I do not know what they were actually expecting, but I do know the risks they were making. One has to wonder if they'll try to have Ash win the Alola League just to appease the fans...

And to be fair, they did intentionally made Alain inferior to Ash by the Team Flare climax, something that Alain himself privately comments on. I sometimes wonder if Callahan from The Power of Us is Tetsuo Yajima's response to the negative backlash to Alain after the Kalos League. I mean, Callahan is a big braggart who boosts about being the best to impress his niece and resorts to cheating in a contest to maintain that facade (with Ash coming in at second), only to be revealed to be a phony a day later with nearly everyone, especially his niece, hating him for his lies (and then Callahan has to go on a redemption quest to become a real hero, ironically set in place thanks to Ash).

Anyways, the backlash is also why I decided to play along with the hype of Amourshipping because I figure there must be a payoff to all of these hints... or a big backlash. In that case, the anime team exceeded the hype there as nobody in the fandom seriously expected a kiss (and I suspect it's the reason why a lot of folks are willingly to forgive XY for the Kalos League).

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I think DP Ash was a better battler than XY Ash. Not better and fully evolved Pokemon, but a better battler.

DP series came up with an astounding amount of strategies, which XY never even came close to. Best of all it actually gave Ash something resembling a signature movie with counter shield, which was so effective that even Paul adapted it.

There was also Ash making a defensive Pokemon like Torterra work, and for the first time a Pokemon swallowing its own attack to gain power. Not to mention removing Toxic Spikes with Flare Blitz, and Gible shooting out Shuckle with a Draco Meteor.

The Kalos league featured very little (if any) of these instances, and the few it does seem unrealistic. In Ash vs Sawyer Pikachu makes a joke out of Gravitation laws for such a move.

While Kalos Ash may have more impressive Pokemon (even that is debatable for anything other than Greninja), DP Ash is the overall better battler.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I'm not sure how satisfying it would have been if Ash had been able to win the Kalos League. It would have been satisfying in the sense that someone finally defeated Alain's broken overpowered Charizard and Ash to have a major victory for the first time in ages, but I don't think that the Kalos League itself would have been that good. They skipped over way too many of Ash's battles to make getting to the semi-finals more noteworthy. It's similar to the problem I have with most of Dawn's matches in the Sinnoh Grand Festival being skipped over. It's believable that Ash would get that far in the Kalos League, but not seeing a full battle until he gets to the semi-finals made it felt too rushed and not nearly as satisfying as if we actually saw more of the progress of the League matches.

Plus, Ash's XY team wasn't nearly as impressive as his DP team was. Greninja, Talonflame and Hawlucha were pretty good battlers, but neither Goodra or especially Noivern had a lot of noteworthy battles under their belts. Most of Ash's DP team had chances to shine throughout the series and using some of his reserved Pokemon probably helped his chances too. I still wouldn't have been against Ash winning the Kalos League, but I don't think that his skills were at his peak during XY.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

DP series came up with an astounding amount of strategies, which XY never even came close to. Best of all it actually gave Ash something resembling a signature movie with counter shield, which was so effective that even Paul adapted it.

Actually, I personally hate Counter Shield. It just feels wrong to me. Too... "special", if that makes any sense.

 

[FluffleFi]

Speaking of Hawlucha, poor guy got the shaft in his first battle against Sawyer. Went through all the trouble of getting Serena to make him a costume, came out with a flashy entrance..only to get one-shotted. Don't even think he did that much damage to Slaking.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Actually, I personally hate Counter Shield. It just feels wrong to me. Too... "special", if that makes any sense.

It’s actually less special than what goodies Ash has been given in later regions.

Paul was able to replicate it with skill. Same cannot be said for Ash’s later “special” things (cough Pikashunium cough Ash-Greninja)

Another thing I just remembered: The Diamond and Pearl league felt satisfying because each Pokemon did its part, and even the previously-considered-weak Pokemon got their time to shine (except poor, poor Torterra).
For instance, Gible went from trying to learn Draco Meteor to creating one strong enough to knock out Darkrai if it had hit (keep in mind that Darkrai was the strongest Pokemon in all of Sinnoh).

Infernape’s Blaze was used in a single battle when it mattered the most, and even then it required effort from Electrivire to activate.
But, in Kalos Ash used Ash-Greninja in literally the first battle. Since most of his battles were not shown, all we see is Greninja taking down a character’s ace while the other battles are merely secondary.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Paul was able to replicate it with skill. Same cannot be said for Ash’s later “special” things /cough Pikashunium cough Ash-Greninja/

I didn't say it was the only special thing that annoys me.

But, in Kalos Ash used Ash-Greninja in literally the first battle. Since most of his battles were not shown, all we see is Greninja taking down a character’s ace while the other battles are merely secondary.

Ash-Greninja kinda annoys me, because Froakie and its evolved forms also fall into the "too special" category for me. If you think about it, Greninja was actually the true main character of the XY series, debatably even more so than Ash. It was a stubborn Pokémon who wanted to choose its own Trainer rather than the other way around. It had a higher destiny to fulfill. Now that I think about it, Greninja was actually quite much like a shonen protagonist.

I wasn't the biggest fan of Greninja to begin with, but the way how Ash's Froakie and its evolved forms overshadowed the rest of Ash's Kalos Pokémon and arguably even Ash himself only made me like this fan favorite Pokémon even less. I don't hate it, I'm just extremely indifferent about it.

 

[ZDaemon09]

I didn't say it was the only special thing that annoys me.

Ash-Greninja kinda annoys me, because Froakie and its evolved forms also fall into the "too special" category for me. If you think about it, Greninja was actually the true main character of the XY series, debatably even more so than Ash. It was a stubborn Pokémon who wanted to choose its own Trainer rather than the other way around. It had a higher destiny to fulfill. Now that I think about it, Greninja was actually quite much like a shonen protagonist.

I wasn't the biggest fan of Greninja to begin with, but the way how Ash's Froakie and its evolved forms overshadowed the rest of Ash's Kalos Pokémon and arguably even Ash himself only made me like this fan favorite Pokémon even less. I don't hate it, I'm just extremely indifferent about it.

Which is why when I eventually get to a battle bond Greninja story in a fanfic I am working on at the moment, the Greninja transforming and kicking butt is the ONLY thing I am keeping from the anime.

Everything is going out the window. (And being given to who is by all accounts, a side character that is getting her own arc. A run of the mill ace trainer from Alola that went to Kalos because in the fic verse, there is a contest system she wanted to try because a friend of her's inspired her to do so.) Toning the big destiny thing down (There is none!), making him a her, give her a different backstory as a whole, making her unlike even a regular (Protean) Froakie in that she is a complete klutz, a goofball and other things. (A Greninja that acts like a boxer instead of a ninja... which fits with two of the moves she is getting, power up punch and ice punch!)

Heck, she is instead going to resemble the female Alolan Ace trainer once the battle bond thing becomes important. Her list of fights/ wins are going to be impressive, spoiler warning.

 

[0cerge]

Alain’s device couldn’t harvest any energy from the bond phenomenon which made him particularly interested in fighting Ash-Greninja.

You skipped scene where Alain's tablet-like device detected rise of energy level which led him to watch battle between Ash's Greninja and Sawyer's Sceptile. Only after that Alain wondered why his Key stone didn't react to Greninja's change. But whole process of gathering energy wasn't revealed and fully explained.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

@FinnishPokéFan92 Counter shield requires no special abilities, no deux ex machina mechanics or exclusive to a single species (or a single situation, for that matter). In its essence it’s no different than he various strategies Ash comes up in battles, but this time it was actually recurring.

Looking at it in its core, it’s no different than a Rain Dance being used to make the field wet, or usinf brick break to break rocks.

I don’t know in what way is can be considered 'special' since it does not have an Ash-only limit and actually requires skill and not a special Pokémon.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

@FinnishPokéFan92 Counter shield requires no special abilities, no deux ex machina mechanics or exclusive to a single species (or a single situation, for that matter). In its essence it’s no different than he various strategies Ash comes up in battles, but this time it was actually recurring.

Looking at it in its core, it’s no different than a Rain Dance being used to make the field wet, or usinf brick break to break rocks.

I don’t know in what way is can be considered 'special' since it does not have an Ash-only limit and actually requires skill and not a special Pokémon.

It still feels wrong to me. Using offensive moves defensively? I'm not sure what it is exactly, but I've just always hated this improvised move for some reason.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

It still feels wrong to me. Using offensive moves defensively? I'm not sure what it is exactly, but I've just always hated this improvised move for some reason.

It’s not the first time for that, though. Pikachu Iron tail and quick attack to evade obstacles constantly.

I just find it wrong to label an actual strategy 'special' while we're seeing stuff like Pikashunium shoved into our face.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

It’s not the first time for that, though. Pikachu Iron tail and quick attack to evade obstacles constantly.

I just find it wrong to label an actual strategy 'special' while we're seeing stuff like Pikashunium shoved into our face.

Maybe it's not that it's "too special". It just... rubs me the wrong way somehow. I can't really explain it any better than that.

As for the Pikashunium Z, I still don't judge that in one way or another, as the Sun & Moon series is over and we can still likely get an explanation for it.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I hope we see counter shield again or some other tactic in that vein.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I hope we see counter shield again or some other tactic in that vein.

Brock already used it earlier, remember?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Brock already used it earlier, remember?

I meant Ash using such consistent and unique tactics again.

Another controversial opinion: I hope Meltan if caught, is released as soon as possible.
Oh, and Meltan is the worst anime mythical/legendary so far.