Controversial opinions

[PkmnTrainerV]

Salamence, fully obedient. I get that he already had a Bagon even in his early appearances, but still, it's freaking Salamence.

Ash too had a fully obedient Goodra so...

 

[Rockapheller]

In the anime, Bianca is as annoying as she can be. She is a decent character in the games, however.

 

[RK9]

I think the anime should have just stopped after Hoenn and started turning Pokémon Adventures and the games into an anime. (Something like Origin or Generations.)

 

[CaptainBuggles]

Ash too had a fully obedient Goodra so...

I never actually said I was completely fine with Goodra, but you're still drawing a false equivalence.

1: Goodra are said to be much more docile than Salamence, on average. Even if the anime shows that Pokemon can obviously deviate a lot from the "average" personality of its kind, it's still relevant to the argument that Sawyer's luck sometimes verges on overly convenient if his Salamence happens to be one of the friendly and easily controlled ones.
2: Ash is much more experienced

My real issue with Goodra is that regardless of Ash's experience, it still evolved too fast, especially considering its personality when it started.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

I never actually said I was completely fine with Goodra, but you're still drawing a false equivalence.

1: Goodra are said to be much friendlier and more docile than Salamence, on average. Even if the anime shows that Pokemon can obviously deviate a lot from the "average" personality of its kind, it's still relevant to the argument that Sawyer's luck sometimes verges on overly convenient if his Salamence happens to be one of the friendly and easily controlled ones.
2: Ash is much more experienced

My real issue with Goodra is that it still evolved too fast, especially considering its personality when it started.

Sawyer worked a lot more than the average rookie trainer so it is easily possible that Bagon earned his respect quickly, in addition to being a favourable nature like Docile or Jolly obviously worked in his favour.
Sawyer is the type of trainer who'd do full research before training a pseudo legend to ensure nothing like disobedience or rampages happen.

He isn’t your average Ash-like rookie. A research-oriented and calculative trainer is less likely to come across issues like rampage and a non-respecting Pokemon.
It could also be easily argued that Sawyer's training struggles happened off screen since we are not following his journey.

 

[CaptainBuggles]

Sawyer worked a lot more than the average rookie trainer so it is easily possible that Bagon earned his respect quickly, in addition to being a favourable nature like Docile or Jolly obviously worked in his favour.
Sawyer is the type of trainer who'd do full research before training a pseudo legend to ensure nothing like disobedience or rampages happen.

He isn’t your average Ash-like rookie. A research-oriented and calculative trainer is less likely to come across issues like rampage and a non-respecting Pokemon.
It could also be easily argued that Sawyer's training struggles happened off screen since we are not following his journey.

It is important, but knowledge alone doesn't automatically mean you'll be able to have a Bagon/comparable Pokemon that will behave how you want it to, even if you theoretically know everything you need to do. Such Pokemon are typically presented as part skill and part luck/privilege, especially for newer Trainers. Even for Ash, finding/obtaining/raising Goomy wasn't 100% skill. Goomy literally just happened to fall out of the sky while Ash was minding his own business.

The last thing you bring up is true, but also comes back to how rapidly he seems to get over everything that does go wrong for him, and how it really might've been better if he were simply introduced a little sooner, since many other characters have been subject to issues that cannot be immediately solved merely by study and competence. (although like Hidden Mew already pointed out, he was meant as ORAS promotion, making that less feasible)

So, given all the circumstances of how/why he exists, Sawyer does make sense to me overall. All I wanted to do was point out subjective issues I had.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

It is important, but knowledge alone doesn't automatically mean you'll be able to have a Bagon/comparable Pokemon that will behave how you want it to, even if you theoretically know everything you need to do. Such Pokemon are typically presented as part skill and part luck/privilege, especially for newer Trainers. Even for Ash, finding/obtaining/raising Goomy wasn't 100% skill. Goomy literally just happened to fall out of the sky while Ash was minding his own business.

So... you’re arguing that Ash can be lucky and have 'privileges' but Sawyer cannot?

 

[CaptainBuggles]

So... you’re arguing that Ash can be lucky and have 'privileges' but Sawyer cannot?

I did say that Sawyer does make sense to me overall, so not exactly. On one hand, it would be kind of obvious that a newer Trainer would need at least some luck to go up against Ash.

It's more that I can relate to people who say he progresses too quickly, and that I have my own opinions on things that seem unlikely/unfair to a degree while still accepting the character and his overall purpose.

I wasn't trying to say that Sawyer doesn't deserve anything at all for being a studious Trainer.

It's also about context. Sawyer simply stands out more among a lot of the other on-screen portrayals of Trainers, especially newer ones, in this anime. If the anime were more often focused on portraying more people with Sawyer's approach, he'd just blend in more and it wouldn't really be anything to comment on. (I guess Trip kinda counts as more portrayal of this kind of character, but he's still really flawed and not nearly enough to stop making Sawyer stand out)

Kinda like how in shows about prodigies, part of what helps you accept that they're prodigies is that the show doesn't focus nearly as much on "average" people, unless it's going for "average but makes a huge effort". It mainly just focuses on people good enough to be a challenge.

And again, I actually would rework Goomy/Goodra a little in particular. Nothing drastic, just making him evolve a little slower while his first appearance is either a bit less of a sudden coincidence, or there is a little more dramatic buildup to being able to actually obtain Goomy once they've met.

 

[FluffleFi]

Not my conversation but i'll say this concerning Goodra; I kinda would have preferred if it was the main powerhouse in Kalos over Greninja. Don't get me wrong, its its great that Ash finally has a Water-Type powerhouse(though, who knows if we'll ever see it again after that ending in Kalos), but Ash already has three other powerful starters, so why not let someone else into the limelight this time around? Its evolution likely would have taken longer than just 16 episodes and it'd definitely get a lot more worthwhile battles. Maybe if Goodra had gotten a Mega Evolution it would have been, a guy can dream anyway.

 

[CaptainBuggles]

Not my conversation but i'll say this concerning Goodra; I kinda would have preferred if it was the main powerhouse in Kalos over Greninja. Don't get me wrong, its its great that Ash finally has a Water-Type powerhouse(though, who knows if we'll ever see it again after that ending in Kalos), but Ash already has three other powerful starters, so why not let someone else into the limelight this time around? Its evolution likely would have taken longer than just 16 episodes and it'd definitely get a lot more worthwhile battles. Maybe if Goodra had gotten a Mega Evolution it would have been, a guy can dream anyway.

Even though it doesn't match Ash's main battle style, having Ash steadily learning how to best work with Goodra's style would make for a nice arc, and it would have a high chance of encouraging more of his creative thinking strats and allowing for a lot of bonding moments with Goodra. Plus I feel like if they did it right, it could've been an easier pill to swallow for the people who were super opposed to Ash-Greninja. (I mean, nothing's perfect and people are allowed to complain if they want, but hopefully everyone sees what I'm getting at)

Plus, it wouldn't automatically mean that Ash couldn't still have Greninja, it would mean that it's just a normal Greninja, which is still a pretty cool Pokemon anyway.

Somewhat related opinion: Ash probably could've done somewhat better with Goodra in the League if he spent more time optimizing his strategy with it. Not to say that his strategies were outright bad, or that he should've just never let it protect the swamp, just that he could've done things a little differently in theory.

 

[TheGoldenToon]

Not sure if this is controversial, but I believe it would have been better if Ash caught Goomy and Noibat sooner. I'd prefer if Ash would get all six of his Pokemon relatively soon, so they would all have time to develop. I can't think of a saga right off the top of my head that did that best.

EDIT: I must still be tired, I guess technically it be five Pokemon since he always starts with Pikachu.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Goodra was probably not the main powerhouse because it falls more on the side of ‘cute’ than ‘cool’, not to mention that Greninja ended up eclipsing Goodra in popularity.

The regional powerhouse is also usually a starter which I personally believe is so that the audience can relate to Ash (since the starter Pokemon in-game usually is a player’s powerhouse).

 

[CaptainBuggles]

Yeah, makes sense. A decent chunk of my opinions are just things that I think would be nice, but I still get why they aren't how I would personally do them.

Plus, some of my changes would probably make other people upset... especially the ways I'd change Paul's handling, which I'm not even going into because every time I talk about Paul it tends to open a whole can of worms. I don't mean that my narrative would be like, super evil to Paul, but there would probably be a lot of complaints.

But something I will say more openly about rival-related stuff: Out of anyone Ash could lose to in the Indigo League, if he still had to lose the way he did, I would've preferred it to be Gary instead of Richie. It'd be a better fit for the intended message that Ash didn't entirely try his best, and the gravity of his mistake would mean even more to him.

Plus, it'd be more likely that Ash would act more bratty/jerkish after losing to Gary compared to Richie, which would make the way he was criticized after the League make more sense. As it stands, it comes off like everyone was being harsh partly just because he was upset and wanted to quietly be alone for a while, rather than readily accepting their attempts to cheer him up.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

It may be just because I actually don't like Greninja that much, mainly because it tends to steal the spotlight from its fellow Kalos starter evolutions, but... I honestly don't like how Greninja hogged the spotlight in the anime. It could even be argued that it was stealing the show even from Ash.

I've pretty much always hated characters who are "too special", or, as I've learned later on, characters who are "Chosen Ones" in one way or another. "Chosen Ones" are a common trope in all sorts of different stories, but some time ago (within the last year or so), I learned to appreciate how appealing regular characters can be, like season 1 Ash, for example. It can get kinda boring to watch as the main character always ends up winning in the end.

Sorry, I may have gone off the track there a bit, but my point is that Greninja basically follows this "Chosen One" trope to such a degree that I feel it's stealing a lot of attention from everyone else around it.

Incoherent ranting mode, off...

 

[CaptainBuggles]

It may be just because I actually don't like Greninja that much, mainly because it tends to steal the spotlight from its fellow Kalos starter evolutions, but... I honestly don't like how Greninja hogged the spotlight in the anime. It could even be argued that it was stealing the show even from Ash.

I've pretty much always hated characters who are "too special", or, as I've learned later on, characters who are "Chosen Ones" in one way or another. "Chosen Ones" are a common trope in all sorts of different stories, but some time ago (within the last year or so), I learned to appreciate how appealing regular characters can be, like season 1 Ash, for example. It can get kinda boring to watch as the main character always ends up winning in the end.

Sorry, I may have gone off the track there a bit, but my point is that Greninja basically follows this "Chosen One" trope to such a degree that I feel it's stealing a lot of attention from everyone else around it.

Incoherent ranting mode, off...

I still enjoy characters like this, but mainly only when there's something unconventional about it, or if the narrative does a good job of showing that it's both a good thing and a bad thing. Or, if the Chosen One is not necessarily destined to succeed, they were just deemed to be somewhat more likely to. Like there's this cartoon called Trollhunters, where the main character is a boy chosen by a magical amulet... But it's already had plenty of other holders that died beforehand, and it has no way of actually being sure that he'll win, all it really did was pick up on some traits that make him a good candidate. Plus, he has to go through all sorts of crap to actually win in the end.

I feel kinda... back-and-forth about Greninja in particular. Like on one hand, I will give them points for showing that it took effort to master Ash-Greninja, and Ash actually made tangible mistakes and didn't literally always win as a result... Plus, I understand why they would want Ash to have something equivalent in power to a Mega. But on the other hand, they could've made the decision to do Ash-Greninja sooner, so the buildup is longer, better paced, and has more conflict. It's kinda weird to have Greninja go from a normal Pokemon who just happens to have a similar philosophy to Ash, to just suddenly being super special.

They could've also just planned to give him an actual Mega rather than making something up (which definitely isn't a new idea, judging by how many people wanted Ash to have a Mega Charizard Y, but I would personally want something besides that)

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I still enjoy characters like this, but mainly only when there's something unconventional about it, or if the narrative does a good job of showing that it's both a good thing and a bad thing. Or, if the Chosen One is not necessarily destined to succeed, they were just deemed to be somewhat more likely to. Like there's this cartoon called Trollhunters, where the main character is a boy chosen by a magical amulet... But it's already had plenty of other holders that died beforehand, and it has no way of actually being sure that he'll win, all it really did was pick up on some traits that make him a good candidate. Plus, he has to go through all sorts of crap to actually win in the end.

I admit that "Chosen One" shows like Yu-Gi-Oh!, Digimon, and Naruto can be good of written well, but ever since I learned to appreciate the regular characters too, this trope has gotten an odd side taste in my mouth. IMO, Digimon is especially guilty of this trope, as they have new "Chosen Ones" in every new series, and I don't this they pretty much ever go into detail of why the main characters are chosen as the heroes, at least in the first two seasons. So yeah.

Also, the fact that Froakie was incredibly picky of its Trainer, and then choosing Ash as a worthy Trainer for itself, was bit of a sour thing for me.

 

[Acrobatic Crobat]

So... I'll be honest that some of those opinions may be influenced by the fact that I only ever watched rather terrible polish dub of english dub (how terrible, you ask? Let's just say that Woobuffet's Counter Attack was translated as "atak liczydłem". "Atak liczydłem" indeed means "counter attack"... in a sense of smacking somoeone over the head with an abacus.), which might've lead to me misinterpreting some things in the anime. Anyway...
I simply hate anime incarnation of Misty and consider her by far the worst and least likable of all main characters - to the point where I almost cheered when she left in the episode "Gonna Catch Ya Later!".
Why? Many reasons.
Well... I'm not saying that Misty was an unlikable jerk and huge creator pet from the very beginning - she only became like this by the time of Johto saga. While Kanto and Orange Islands had some moments where it was really hard to feel any sympathy toward her, it wasn't that bad.
So... let's begin with the very fact that Misty is one of the more iconic tsundere characters in anime. Now, I'm not saying that every tsundere is bad. I actually like such characters - unless their cold, passively aggresive demeanor is aimed at a ten years old boy, who is still far to young to understand the reason behind said demeanor and is left wondering just why a person he considers one of his closest friends seems to hate him with burning passion for no reason at all.
But alright, she's 10 herself, so let's say I can forgive her. What I can't forgive? Her "I've always been the very best, like no one ever was" attitude. Yeah, you could say that the same can be said about Ash. What's the difference? Unlike Misty, Ash doesn't consider himself the best despite losing most of the fights (on the contrary: even if he is during one of his "hurr durr I am unbeatable" phases, every lost match reminds him that he still has a long way to go) and, more importantly, Ash always gets called out for his arrogance. Misty? Nah. We're supposed to accept that her bragging about being the absolute master of water Pokemon as a complete truth that no one dares to undermine, no matter how blatantly untrue it is. Seriously, most of the times Misty tries to show how great she is, it ends in a spectacular loss (including, at one point, against a wild MAGCARGO - Pokemon that her team should be able to steamroll through with little effort!) - and yet both narrator and other characters still treat her like a highly competent battler that she isn't. And don't even get me started on the whole "Misty is more skilled than Ash" thing: with the score being two clear wins for Ash ("Who Gets To Keep Togepi?" and "Totodile Duel!"), one blatantly lucky win for Misty ("The Perfect Match!") and one match unfinished, but with Ash clearly having the upper hand ("The Water Flowers Of Cerulean City"), it's rather obviously the other way around - and yet Misty will take every opportunity to tell Ash that she could easily defeat him any time.

...It's becoming a bit too much of a text wall and I'm only starting... yup, I'm probably ranting a bit.

Anyway, that's just about Misty character - and then some of the things she says and does, which also paint her in a far-from-sympathetic light.
Example? The whole "Who keeps Togepi?" incident. Don't get me wrong here: it's not the fact that Togepi ended up with Misty, but rather Misty's entire reasoning for why it should be this way. Basically, Brock spent WEEKS looking after that egg and Misty did a great NOTHING to help him - and then egg hatched, Misty saw that Pokemon inside is cute and suddenly decided that it should belong to her just because she was closest when it hatched. And once again, no one calls her out for this and everyone is okay with her competing for the egg despite having done nothing for it (even though Jessie and James are both immediately disqualiffied from the competition for the exact same thing).
Then there is Charizard's arc throughout the first two seasons and how everyone, including Misty, calls Ash out for being a bad trainer, because he's doing nothing to make his Pokemon obey him again. Personally I think they're wrong about it (Ash is doing nothing, because there is nothing he can do), but that's entirely different matter. Anyway, why do I consider Misty's behavior during this arc worse than everyone else's? Simple: Brock, Tracey, prof. Oak, Gary, Ritchie - they're simply wrong, and that's it. Forgivable. Misty on the other hand isn't just wrong for calling Ash out - she is hypocritical. And I hate hypocrisy.
Why I think it's hypocritical for her? Because she has similar problems with her Psyduck and, unlike Ash, does have means to make it more competent, teach it how to swim and maybe even make it a bit more obedient. What does she do? Absolutely nothing. She just spends five seasons straight complaining about how her Psyduck is the worst Pokemon alive, can't do anything right and doesn't even listen to her, yet never even tries to train him (and no, the fact that Psyduck is more skilled in Sun & Moon anime, 16 years later, doesn't mean anything, considering the fact that by then Misty had spent long time as gym leader and HAD TO train it a bit or risk it jumping into fight at worst time possible, costing her a match).
But perhaps the worst despicable thing Misty ever did was during her fight with Ash in the episode "Totodile Duel!" - more specifically, when she sent out Togepi. TOGEPI. A several months-old baby that doesn't even know how to fight yet. Her whole "strategy" consisted of hoping that Pikachu won't bring itself to hurt a defenseless child. I think it's safe to assume that such thing would get her immediately disqualiffied (if not outright banned) from any official tournament - and yet once again it's treated by everyone like perfectly legit tactic.

...Yeah, it's been only one opinion, and yet this post is already this long... I'll try to be more brief from now on.

I don't mind the whole "Aim for the horn!" scene or similar incidents in anime. Yeah, I know, in games Rhydon is immune to electricity... thing is, games don't run on pure logic. They use mechanics, which may or may not be logical. Rhydon has thick, rocky hide that should render it immune for electric attacks - but its horn, being made of keratin (or something similar) and not covered by said hide, would still be vulnerable (of course it's no longer true as of Generation 3, where Rhydon was given Lightning Rod ability, but said episode was back in Gen 1). The same applies to things like Charizard getting hit with Magnitude during Ash's fight with Gary during Silver Conference (why shouldn't it? Charizard was sitting on the ground with no way to dodge it!) or Pikachu often defeating Ground types with electric attacks (let's admit it: some Ground types, like Onix, Geodude or Rhyhorn, have a logical reason to be immune to electricity. Others, like Diglett, would be able to easily dodge it. Yet others, like Cubone or Phanpy... well... they don't.)

And I think that Ash is actually better trainer than Red. People who compare them often tend to forget the fact that things like catching Pokemon or tournaments work differently in anime than in games. Yes, Ash only caught nine Pokemon in Kanto (and yes, those 30 Tauros only count as one) as opposed to Red's 151. Thing is, Pokemon in anime are FAR more eager to run away and FAR more adept at dodging pokeballs. Let's add to this that, unlike Red, Ash doesn't have unlimited time to walk around the same area in hope of catching one particular Pokemon that sometimes appears around these parts - and suddenly catching 9 start looking like a pretty good achievement.

 

[FluffleFi]

Goodra was probably not the main powerhouse because it falls more on the side of ‘cute’ than ‘cool’, not to mention that Greninja ended up eclipsing Goodra in popularity.

The regional powerhouse is also usually a starter which I personally believe is so that the audience can relate to Ash (since the starter Pokemon in-game usually is a player’s powerhouse).

True enough, but considering Pikachu's more 'cute' than 'cool' too, I think Ash is due to have another cute bruiser at this point. If anything, I personally like it when someone goofy or cute is more powerful than they appear to be, since I like the whole 'don't judge a book by its cover' phrase.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Pikachu's more 'cute' than 'cool' too,

It falls squarely in the middle of cute and cool, not to mention that they have to make Pikachu appear good since it’s the mascot and easily the most popular Pokémon.
It happens to be the exception in the cute/cool and power debate due to the virtue of being a mascot.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I actually really liked the Ash-Greninja storyline. I'd even go as far as to say that it's one of the highlights of the XY series for me. I can understand the problems people have with it, especially regarding Greninja taking up the spotlight from the rest of Ash's team. Even so, I thought it was a good storyline. There was some genuinely great character moments for Ash, particularly during the aftermath of his first attempt at the Snowbelle City Gym, and I thought that the bond they formed throughout the series resulting in a new power for Greninja was believable.

It probably helps that I thought Ash's Kalos team was messed up well before Greninja came into the picture too. Once they rushed through Goomy's development and evolutions, Ash's team was never really good. If they actually spent time with Goodra and had its departure for the end of the series instead of in the middle of it, it would have been fine, but rushing through its evolutions to give Ash a powerhouse for his match against Clemont was disappointing. And Noivern was somehow even worse. They didn't even bother to do anything with it after it learned to fly in its second episode until it evolved somehow. They even had an open slot on his team that could have been used for another new Pokemon, but they just brought back Goodra for the Kalos League. That might have been okay if it did anything other than lose or force the battle into a draw. I still wish that Ash caught a Skiddo or something like that instead of getting Noivern or bringing back Goodra if he did still need two Dragon types on his team.

While the Ash-Greninja storyline is far from perfect, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as the other issues I have with Ash's Kalos team. It was interesting, engaging and had some really good character moments for Ash that I still appreciate a lot.