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Controversial opinions

I don't know the exact definitions, but I think the main characters are Ash + Pikachu + compagnons + TR (I wish Bulbapedia had an article about this). The protagonist has always been Ash (even tough Dawn was a co-start in DP).
 
I don't know the exact definitions, but I think the main characters are Ash + Pikachu + compagnons + TR (I wish Bulbapedia had an article about this). The protagonist has always been Ash (even tough Dawn was a co-start in DP).
You're absolutely right. Bulbapedia's definition of "main character" includes the protagonists (i.e. Ash and his non-temporary traveling companions) and the Team Rocket trio.
 
Ritchie isn't an Ash clone. All their personality traits they shared were very generic. There was enough differences to make their similarities interesting. He needs to return and I'm still salty he didn't compete in the Johto League despite wanting to be a master.

Misty should have done the Johto badge quest. If elite 4 specialize in one type I see no reason why a competitor can't. Also the fact that she had a lot of anti specialization rhetoric despite specializing in a specific type is pretty dumb. Like the princess day episode for example, if she doesn't think her Pokemon have enough variety to win why should she only use one type?
 
Also the fact that she had a lot of anti specialization rhetoric despite specializing in a specific type is pretty dumb. Like the princess day episode for example, if she doesn't think her Pokemon have enough variety to win why should she only use one type?
That's... actually a good point. It's not like she was forced to have only Water Pokémon, hell, so far there has been only one Gym Leader that got forced to use a specific type, and that was Cheren in the games. The rest of them are pretty comfortable with their own types.
 
Ritchie isn't an Ash clone. All their personality traits they shared were very generic. There was enough differences to make their similarities interesting. He needs to return and I'm still salty he didn't compete in the Johto League despite wanting to be a master.

Misty should have done the Johto badge quest. If elite 4 specialize in one type I see no reason why a competitor can't. Also the fact that she had a lot of anti specialization rhetoric despite specializing in a specific type is pretty dumb. Like the princess day episode for example, if she doesn't think her Pokemon have enough variety to win why should she only use one type?
Misty was never really an intelligent person to begin with.
 
Ritchie isn't an Ash clone. All their personality traits they shared were very generic. There was enough differences to make their similarities interesting. He needs to return and I'm still salty he didn't compete in the Johto League despite wanting to be a master.
I couldn't agree more. He and his team was a huge wasted opportunity.

Misty should have done the Johto badge quest.
Maybe not necessarily Misty and not necessarily Johto - but after 20 years we're still yet to have a companion that shares Ash's goal of collecting badges and challenging the League (which would make for far more interesting dynamic than Ash having a rival who travels separately and only occasionaly runs into him), and Misty actually having ANY goal definitely would make her at least a little more likeable. It wouldn't make her any less of a jerkish brat and a creator pet (I have a weird feeling that only reason she's so beloved by fandom is because she was member of the "best" original team), but at least seeing her actually work towards something rather than stalking Ash & Pika for 5 seasons straight over a broken bike would help show that she does actually have some redeeming qualities. I mean, we have Brock, who wants to become a breeder, we have Tracey, researcher in training, we have Todd, who aims (and succeeds) to be a renowned Pokemon photographer, we have Ash and Ritchie, both working towards becoming champions, with every single of them doing at least something in this direction (one could argue that Brock also does nothing meaningful, but in his case it's more of his character arc getting derailed by his casanova wannabe running gag. Still better than Misty - he at least HAD a character arc that could be derailed)... and then there's Misty with her extremely ambiguous, poorly defined and hardly ever really acknowledged outside of her introducing herself or boasting goal to "Be a water Pokemon master", that we never see her try to realise in any way and - as I mentioned earlier - she's only actually there because of a broken bike (and don't get me strated on "the same applying for May and Dawn". In their case broken bikes were catalyts, but they quickly found other goals... well, the same for both of them, but you get what I mean).

Also the fact that she had a lot of anti specialization rhetoric despite specializing in a specific type is pretty dumb. Like the princess day episode for example, if she doesn't think her Pokemon have enough variety to win why should she only use one type?
The worst part is, at first they actually tried to do away with this part of her character - which might also help to make her more likeable. An early episode ("Bulbasaur and the Hidden Village", IIRC) had her try and fail to catch an Oddish, with her explictly noting that as cool as "I only train one type of Pokemon" sounds, it's not really a good strategy. It was only after that that writers decided "Nah, whatever" and had her suddenly start treating water types like überpokemon for no apparent reason.
 
Ritchie isn't an Ash clone. All their personality traits they shared were very generic. There was enough differences to make their similarities interesting. He needs to return and I'm still salty he didn't compete in the Johto League despite wanting to be a master.

I don't know if I was that upset over Ritchie not being in the Johto League, but it would have been interesting to see a rematch between them and having a League only rival appear for two different Leagues would have probably helped to make him stand out a bit more.

Harmful Heron said:
Misty should have done the Johto badge quest. If elite 4 specialize in one type I see no reason why a competitor can't. Also the fact that she had a lot of anti specialization rhetoric despite specializing in a specific type is pretty dumb. Like the princess day episode for example, if she doesn't think her Pokemon have enough variety to win why should she only use one type?

I think part of that decision was due to how most of her Pokemon weren't suited for battling on land. Among her team at the time, only Staryu, Starmie and Psyduck could really battle on land and she needed four Pokemon for that episode. Still, it is strange to think about how she asked to borrow their Pokemon for the competition when she gets more excited over Water Pokemon as the original series progresses.
 
I don't know the exact definitions, but I think the main characters are Ash + Pikachu + compagnons + TR (I wish Bulbapedia had an article about this). The protagonist has always been Ash (even tough Dawn was a co-start in DP).

I don't want to sound like a broken record but main character = protagonist. So Ash and Pikachu are the main characters. Dawn and Serena were also the co-main characters in their own series. I don't know about May since I didn't watch her series.

The companions and Team Rocket form the supporting characters. The main characters together with the supporting characters make the main cast.

Take Parks and Recreation for instance, Leslie Knope is the main character though everyone else is a supporting character. It's just how things are literally speaking so I hope we can let this rest now. In any case, I don't think the intended purpose of the Controversial Opinions thread is to mock, sneer, be rude or get passive aggressive towards anyone who has a different opinion.
 
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I don't want to sound like a broken record but main character = protagonist. So Ash and Pikachu are the main characters. Dawn and Serena were also the co-main characters in their own series. I don't know about May since I didn't watch her series.

The companions and Team Rocket form the supporting characters. The main characters together with the supporting characters make the main cast.

Take Parks and Recreation for instance, Leslie Knope is the main character though everyone else is a supporting character. It's just how things are literally speaking so I hope we can let this rest now. In any case, I don't think the intended purpose of the Controversial Opinions thread is to mock, sneer, be rude or get passive aggressive towards anyone who has a different opinion.

I appreciate and understand a difference in opinion, but you literally just claimed your opinion regarding what constitutes a main character as fact and want to "let this rest." That comes across as biased-ly decisive to me, which is a good way to earn ire and scorn from others.
 
I don't want to sound like a broken record but main character = protagonist. So Ash and Pikachu are the main characters. Dawn and Serena were also the co-main characters in their own series. I don't know about May since I didn't watch her series.

The protagonist is a main character, but like I mentioned before, you can have more than one main character in a story. I wouldn't say that Serena had a proactive role in XY akin to Dawn. She was the main female lead just like Misty, May, Dawn and Iris were for their respective series, but giving her co-main character status doesn't quite sit right with me if only she and Dawn could be considered main characters among the traveling companions. She didn't get a lot of focus during the first year of XY, her Performance goal was really relevant for a little over a year and I don't think it had a huge impact on Ash's journey through Kalos. I'm not saying that Serena didn't do anything during XY, but I don't think it was akin to the focus and role Dawn got in DP.

SerenaToAlola said:
The companions and Team Rocket form the supporting characters. The main characters together with the supporting characters make the main cast.

While it's true that main characters together with the supporting characters make up the main cast, I don't think I agree that all of the companions besides Dawn and Serena are just supporting characters. I can kind of understand that argument with the SM cast, but other traveling companions were featured in nearly every episode, usually had at least a decent amount of focus in their series and helped Ash through his journey in some fashion. This especially doesn't really work for Team Rocket. Up until BW, they were featured in every episode aside from the first one. They are the main antagonists of each series. I'm not saying that supporting characters can't make significant contributions to the plot, but if your characters are the main antagonists that the protagonists deal with practically every week, I don't think they qualify as supporting characters.

SerenaToAlola said:
Take Parks and Recreation for instance, Leslie Knope is the main character though everyone else is a supporting character. It's just how things are literally speaking so I hope we can let this rest now. In any case, I don't think the intended purpose of the Controversial Opinions thread is to mock, sneer, be rude or get passive aggressive towards anyone who has a different opinion.

Well I don't think people are trying to mock you for your opinion, but responding back by saying that your opinion is a fact does come off a bit too dismissive for my tastes.
 
About Misty, while I'm not one of the "She should've stayed forever" fans, I do think the reason she had to leave was selfish and annoying on the part of her sisters.

Like, not even one of you can set aside your own desires and just run the Gym? You have to abruptly, with little warning, thrust it on your younger sibling and hope she accepts out of some forced sense of obligation? Not to mention that you haven't even talked much since you finally decided to start respecting her, but now you suddenly expect her to do this huge thing for you? It's just annoying, and I definitely wouldn't have agreed to do it if I were her. You're the older ones, and you were usually jerks to boot, so handle your own problems.
 
About Misty, while I'm not one of the "She should've stayed forever" fans, I do think the reason she had to leave was selfish and annoying on the part of her sisters.

Like, not even one of you can set aside your own desires and just run the Gym? You have to abruptly, with little warning, thrust it on your younger sibling and hope she accepts out of some forced sense of obligation? Not to mention that you haven't even talked much since you finally decided to start respecting her, but now you suddenly expect her to do this huge thing for you? It's just annoying, and I definitely wouldn't have agreed to do it if I were her. You're the older ones, and you were usually jerks to boot, so handle your own problems.

I had no problem Misty left, I just disliked the way it was done.
 
About Misty, while I'm not one of the "She should've stayed forever" fans, I do think the reason she had to leave was selfish and annoying on the part of her sisters.

Like, not even one of you can set aside your own desires and just run the Gym? You have to abruptly, with little warning, thrust it on your younger sibling and hope she accepts out of some forced sense of obligation? Not to mention that you haven't even talked much since you finally decided to start respecting her, but now you suddenly expect her to do this huge thing for you? It's just annoying, and I definitely wouldn't have agreed to do it if I were her. You're the older ones, and you were usually jerks to boot, so handle your own problems.
I think she agreed to do it because deep down she wanted to be the Gym leader and have that responsibility. So sure, she was surprised to have this sprung on her and upset with the rude treatment and upset to leave her friends because she enjoyed her travels, but this also meant her sisters respected her enough to be the sole gym leader and she was proud of being a gym leader and wanted this responsibility/position. It actually was one of the better departures in that she improved a lot as a water type trainer and then was able to use that improvements gained from her travels to do something she always wanted to do and be a good gym leader, gaining the respect of her sisters. So yeah, it would have felt better if the sisters had been more respectful and asked her if she wanted to do it, but that just wasn't their personality.
 
That is a decent point, it's just... Now I feel like how I feel about Iris when it comes to the "improving as a Water-type Trainer" part, because like...

If they just made her travels more structured and productive in the first place, she could've made way more progress in her journeys than she canonically did, and it wouldn't even be necessary for her to become a Gym Leader to improve further.

Still, it's not the worst thing in the world, it's mainly just that I have super low sympathy for her sisters. So, the execution kind of undermines this interpretation, but thought that she'd be doing it mostly for her own sake is a bit of a comfort, rather than the thought it's just to impress vain brats like them. Like I said, I don't think she should've stayed forever anyway.
 
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It also didn't help that there wasn't much buildup to Misty's departure. Her sisters had been mentioned a few times during Johto and her connection to Sakura, the girl with the Espeon, reminded her of how she was when she first left home, but compared to other departures, there wasn't a lot of build up and it didn't really come off as a natural conclusion to Misty's story considering she wanted to leave the Gym to make it on her own as a Pokemon trainer. I can see why they still decided to have Misty become a Gym Leader. It was the easiest way to write her out of the cast, but the execution could have been improved upon.

Even so, I don't mind Misty staying on as a Gym Leader. She was the only one out of her sisters to even be interested in Pokemon battles. It's almost amazing that her sisters didn't just give it up completely. It gives her a way to work on her battling skills and she can still leave the Gym to travel on her own. I agree that if her goal had better structure during the original series, maybe they wouldn't have made her a Gym Leader, but anyone besides Ash getting a good amount of focus and development in the original series would have been tough to pull off.
 
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