Controversial opinions

[Blaine.]

Cameron was far more forgetful and worse than Ash. He required lengthy explanations to understand even the most basic of things.

He was still a good trainer though

 

[Panky..]

Once Again, Cameron wasn't a bad trainer. Forgetful yes, but Ash was also forgetful.

Cameron was far more forgetful and worse than Ash. He required lengthy explanations to understand even the most basic of things.

To add to Finnish's point, Ash was in a much better state as a trainer in OS yet his Pokemon disobeyed him for being incompetent. Cameron gets a DEM of having a fully decked team of powerful Pokemon (especially Hydreigon) obey him without any problem. In that same series, Iris (a trainer much more competent than Cameron) had her Dragonite disobey her.

Not to mention, Lucario somehow fully healed after evolving.

 

[Blaine.]

To add to Finnish's point, Ash was in a much better state as a trainer in OS yet his Pokemon disobeyed him for being incompetent. Cameron gets a DEM of having a fully decked team of powerful Pokemon (especially Hydreigon) obey him without any problem. In that same series, Iris (a trainer much more competent than Cameron) had her Dragonite disobey her.

Not to mention, Lucario somehow fully healed after evolving.

Ash's Tranquil. Ash's Tranquil had evolved mid-fight against Skyla's Swanna, despite being injured and exhausted. Unfezant had faster mobility despite being tired.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Ash's Tranquil. Ash's Tranquil had evolved mid-fight against Skyla's Swanna, despite being injured and exhausted. Unfezant had faster mobility despite being tired.

That Riolu/Lucario overall was OP, IMO. And winning despite such goof-ups as making incredibly bad type matchup calls (he sent two Pokémon out against opponents that they had a x4 weakness against) and only bringing five Pokémon to a Full Battle does not send a good message.

 

[Panky..]

Ash's Tranquil. Ash's Tranquil had evolved mid-fight against Skyla's Swanna, despite being injured and exhausted. Unfezant had faster mobility despite being tired.

Nowhere in that battle was it implied that Unfezant was healed completely. I've seen evolution as a sort of a powerful adrenaline shot, you get an extra boost in power and all that but the moment that adrenaline wears out, you're done for. Or if you expend energy through the evolution itself, you won't get any boost, instead you faint (Incineroar recently).

Cameron's Lucario on the other hand magically healed completely to the point it was able to solo 3 of Ash's Pokemon easily. That's a DEM.

 

[Daren]

That Riolu/Lucario overall was OP, IMO. And winning despite such goof-ups as making incredibly bad type matchup calls (he sent two Pokémon out against opponents that they had a x4 weakness against) and only bringing five Pokémon to a Full Battle does not send a good message.

That's the really annoying thing. Ash was "punished" for his weaknesses as a trainer in Kanto by losing fairly early on and being humiliated in front of everyone when his Charizard ignored him.
Cameron got top 4. He feels like an out of season April Fool's joke, or a prophetic vision of Twitch Plays Pokémon.
(I wonder if Cameron is as hated in Japan? I've read a few times BW was better received there)

Nowhere in that battle was it implied that Unfezant was healed completely. I've seen evolution as a sort of a powerful adrenaline shot, you get an extra boost in power and all that but the moment that adrenaline wears out, you're done for. Or if you expend energy through the evolution itself, you won't get any boost, instead you faint (Incineroar recently).

Cameron's Lucario on the other hand magically healed completely to the point it was able to solo 3 of Ash's Pokemon easily. That's a DEM.

When an antagonist does it, I like to think the "D" in DEM stands for "Devil"

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

I mean, like I said before, all that “SM has a terrible art style” talk was really just them saying “Ash (and Team Rocket) look awful!” I never saw anyone complain about the other characters.

Maybe because they aren't designed in the same way, because those "other characters" had almost same design they had in the games

 

[DarkraiKnight]

Maybe because they aren't designed in the same way, because those "other characters" had almost same design they had in the games

Um...yeah. That's kind of what I was pointing out.

So...why are you acting like I missed the point again?

 

[Daenerys]

I mean, like I said before, all that “SM has a terrible art style” talk was really just them saying “Ash (and Team Rocket) look awful!” I never saw anyone complain about the other characters.

Well mostly yeah, although I've been known to criticize Lana's face for the same reason that I complained about Cilan's face; I hate their eyes with a passion. SuMo!Ash and SuMo!TR definitely had some of my least favorite designs during the Alola saga for the simple fact that I didn't like their proportions. SuMo!TR in particular looked bloated, like me after eating too much Taco Bell. It would've been funny if it weren't so off-putting. :/

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Um...yeah. That's kind of what I was pointing out.

So, if Ash and TR are the only characters in an actual SM art style...how is that a rebuttal against "SM has a terrible art style"?

 

[DarkraiKnight]

So, if Ash and TR are the only characters in an actual SM art style...how is that a rebuttal against "SM has a terrible art style"?

SM’s artstyle extends to all the characters. It’s the art style of everything.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

SM’s artstyle extends to all the characters. It’s the art style of everything.

So...if we accept that, how does "side characters looks fine" make it not terrible?

 

[sc190191]

Since the new series seems to have similar art style to Sun & Moon, I wonder if we're going to get any hypocrites who like it here despite hating it in Sun & Moon?

I can tell you that I don't really like it much, but I do think it is better than SM. I still prefer every other pre SM series over what we have seen so far.

I mean, like I said before, all that “SM has a terrible art style” talk was really just them saying “Ash (and Team Rocket) look awful!” I never saw anyone complain about the other characters.

Thankfully, these new designs seem to be a happy medium between SM’s and the previous seasons’, so we shouldn’t see too much of that anymore.

Saying the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true (you've seriously said that like 3 times in the past week). That may be your opinion, but there are a lot of other parts of the SM art style that some people don't like. The following is all my opinion so don't get mad, because you are seemingly asking for it: the backgrounds are awful in SM, if a character isn't in the forefront, they look ridiculous. Frequently, I can't even tell who/what is supposed to be in the background. Other background objects that aren't characters are also sloppily drawn, so scenes aren't as appealing. (For me personally, I am a big fan of nature, I was really appreciating some of the nature art in old series). The soft edges of characters (including most, if not all Pokemon) make them look less realistic, and in some cases just downright strange. The softness in everything just gives off a completely different vibe to me, and I personally really dislike it. It is easiest to point out the difference in old characters, sure, I would expand your above comment to also include Prof Oak, there is nothing to compare the new characters to, but I really don't think any of the new characters look that good. I would think most people state their dislike of the old characters because it is low hanging fruit, and the easiest argument to gain agreement from, but that doesn't mean they automatically approve of everything else. Again, this is my personal opinion, I'm not trying to get in an argument, just sharing because you state you haven't seen this type of opinion before.

 

[BugCatcherinVF]

My controversial opinion is Sun and Moon was on every artistic level the best series of the whole anime. And I say this after having rewatched the whole original series.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

My controversial opinion is that people shouldn't criticize controversial opinions people post in this thread. Asking questions is still fine though. Had to say it.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Since the new series seems to have similar art style to Sun & Moon, I wonder if we're going to get any hypocrites who like it here despite hating it in Sun & Moon?

The art style is different from Sun/Moon on many levels. Just look at Sakuragi's lab vs any background Sun/Moon has given us. Preferring one over the another isn’t being a hypocrite: they’re drastically different.

the backgrounds are awful in SM, if a character isn't in the forefront, they look ridiculous. Frequently, I can't even tell who/what is supposed to be in the background. Other background objects that aren't characters are also sloppily drawn, so scenes aren't as appealing. (For me personally, I am a big fan of nature, I was really appreciating some of the nature art in old series). The soft edges of characters (including most, if not all Pokemon) make them look less realistic, and in some cases just downright strange. The softness in everything just gives off a completely different vibe to me, and I personally really dislike it. It is easiest to point out the difference in old characters, sure, I would expand your above comment to also include Prof Oak, there is nothing to compare the new characters to, but I really don't think any of the new characters look that good. I would think most people state their dislike of the old characters because it is low hanging fruit, and the easiest argument to gain agreement from, but that doesn't mean they automatically approve of everything else. Again, this is my personal opinion, I'm not trying to get in an argument, just sharing because you state you haven't seen this type of opinion before.

Thanks, my opinion happens to be exactly the same and I wanted to post the very thing! The way Ash is drawn isn’t the only (if an issue) in the series. The backgrounds are simply atrocious and the background objects are drawn ridiculously out of proportion or flat out wrong.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I just saw a YouTube comment which utterly bashed both the Let's Go games and (more importantly for this thread) the Sun & Moon series, simply because they both featured Pokémon that were strong despite not evolving.

Spoiler: Here's what they exactly said.

Let's Go Pikachu & Eevee. I'm sorry, but I can NOT forgive games that force a starter on you that refuses to evolve, and there is no loophole around it to force them to like in Yellow. Plus, the buffed stats, exclusive moves and whatnot felt like unnecessary buffs. The sheer fact that some of their final evolutions (Raichu and Flareon in particular) are not even good competitively and are practically BEGGING for a buff, only for their INTENTIONALLY weak pre-evolutions to get one instead really pisses me off. And sadly, it looks like that was only the beginning, what with Gigantimax Pikachu, Eevee and Meowth on the horizon. More Pokemon who refuse to evolve... getting buffs when they really shouldn't. Let's not even mention the fact that Eevee, the Pokemon whose very purpose is evolution, refuses to evolve is just a slap in the face. As for the anime. At first, I actually really liked it. I enjoyed how much more expressive all the characters were, and I could relate on a spiritual level with Jessie's Mimikyu due to our shared hatred of Pikachu. Hell, some of the early series battles had LOGICAL outcomes according to the Pokemon's evolutionary stages; something that they typically do the opposite of. As soon as Torracat lost to Incineroar, even though it recently evolved, I was happy to see that they were finally taking evolution strength into account. But then Snowy refused to evolve. No reason given, it just got scared of the Ice Stone. Even though evolving into Ninetales could probably help it overcome its crippling anxiety... they tossed aside an opportunity for character development in favor of cuteness. I thought it couldn't get any worse. But boy was I wrong, because Rowlet... HOO BOY, I have not hated a Pokemon THIS much since Ash's Pikachu himself. For some reason, Rowlet is so stupid that it needs to launch a held item in order to use Seed Bomb, despite every other Pokemon in existence being able to use it just fine. Not only that, but the dumb bird swallows an Everstone for NO reason, and even when Ash manages to (for once) do something smart and get him to spit it out, he just swallows it again. Not only that, but it wins against its evolved form not once, but TWICE, with the second time having some of the worst plot contrivances I've seen from the anime to date. Rowlet winning against Dartrix was bad enough, but it should NEVER have won against Decidueye. (Also, the writers giving Rowlet a Decidueye costume felt like a giant middle finger to Decidueye fans. It's like they KNEW we wanted Rowlet to evolve, but were like "fuck you, we're gonna keep him cute and stupid, so here's a Decidueye cosplay to calm y'all down") That battle was the reason why I felt that Ash didn't deserve to win the Pokemon League, because that battle was one I feel he should have lost. I thought the anime was starting to break away from the age-old cliche of "unevolved mon wants to beat its evolved form to 'prove itself.'" Guess I was wrong.

So, I guess the point is that this person really hates Pokémon not evolving. I disagree with basically everything they say. I mean, I'm not a big Rowlet fan either (especially not after that Hau battle), but I think this person goes a bit too far on their bashing. Even regarding Rowlet.

 

[Kurolegacy]

I’ve never really been a fan of Ash-Greninja. I always found it to be an asspull by the writers so they didn’t have to give Ash a Mega Evolution. It made no sense why they wouldn’t considering that he owns multiple Pokémon who either can or have the potential to Mega Evolve yet for no apparent reason, they made up a form for Greninja. It only added further insult to injury when the writers proceeded to give Misty and Brock Mega Evolutions in the Kanto arc of SM.

 

[HiroHunter]

I’ve never really been a fan of Ash-Greninja. I always found it to be an asspull by the writers so they didn’t have to give Ash a Mega Evolution. It made no sense why they wouldn’t considering that he owns multiple Pokémon who either can or have the potential to Mega Evolve yet for no apparent reason, they made up a form for Greninja. It only added further insult to injury when the writers proceeded to give Misty and Brock Mega Evolutions in the Kanto arc of SM.

Its because they only wanted Ash to have pokemon from Kalos outside of Pikachu.

 

[prog rocker]

I’ve never really been a fan of Ash-Greninja. I always found it to be an asspull by the writers so they didn’t have to give Ash a Mega Evolution. It made no sense why they wouldn’t considering that he owns multiple Pokémon who either can or have the potential to Mega Evolve yet for no apparent reason, they made up a form for Greninja. It only added further insult to injury when the writers proceeded to give Misty and Brock Mega Evolutions in the Kanto arc of SM.

Is that an unpopular opinion?