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Controversial opinions

I know that she was gone for two series, but that doesn't really mean much when time in the Pokemon anime makes no sense. I'm pretty sure that she still has a Gible and that the Goodra wasn't confirmed to be her Pokemon either. I just find it unbelievable because of how Iris' skills were presented in BW. They kept hyping her up as this gifted trainer, but her battle skills were never that impressive to me. Like I said, if I liked Iris, then this development would be terrific. As it is, it just feels incredibly forced to me.
if Goodra wasn't confirm to be her Pokemon so Gible being Garchomp is still high possiblity considering many main character Pokemons fully evolved with zero training or experience in anime so Gible being Garchomp in such big time is no surprise, to win Unova league Iris need 6 Pokemons as Quarter finals to final rounds are 6vs6, so it's very obvious she had full team.

Iris has shown really strong battler in BW, beat 99 trainers in a row when she was 5-6 year old, won many battles in tournaments and won a whole tournament in Nimbasa city, her Excadrill tie with strongest Unova gym leader Drayden's Haxorus, Dragonite was destroying competition in world junior cup even when put against ice type Pokemons and Ash only able beat him because Krokorok evolve in the middle battle and Dragonite lose control, that same krokorok beat Brycen's Beartic so Iris should be more powerful than 7th gym leader in Unova.
 
Well, other characters have done much more on screen in the span of much fewer episodes. Go went from being crushed by a Mightyena to having a Cinderace and a Legendary Pokémon. I don’t see why Iris’ ascent is that outlandish when compared to stuff like that specially when she disappeared for two whole series, which you seem to be dismissing because “time in the anime makes no sense”. But that makes no sense either because it can be as short as you want, but as long as you want too. People develop and change. Like I said, Iris seems to do much better solo than in groups thanks to what we’ve seen with regard to her progress.
The difference is that Goh isn't put on a high pedestal like Iris was. At least I don't get that impression from Goh getting evolved Pokemon like Cinderace or even Legendary Pokemon, especially when one of them was kind of a necessity given the setup. Goh is shown to be a more compassionate trainer able to better connect with his Pokemon, which in my opinion is generally earned and believable. It's not perfect, but they aren't treating him as this extra special gifted Dragon Master in training just because he can catch Pokemon with one toss of a Pokeball. I dismissed the two whole series because it feels too much of a cop-out to me, on top of the time issue. Yeah, you can make it as long or as short as you want, but I don't think that really makes it better. If a character didn't look particularly good in their respective series for some people, then just saying that they improved drastically off-screen to justify all of their accomplishments isn't going to work for everyone. It just feels like a flimsy excuse.

I don't really buy into the notion that she works better solo than in groups. She wouldn't have even understood Excadrill's problem if Cilan didn't point it out to her and there wasn't really any indication that being in a group during BW made it more difficult for Iris to battle either. I can see why you'd get that impression going from her backstory, but I don't think it makes sense.
Your perspective seems to be heavily tainted by your dislike of Iris in BW... I do not like the way her battle was handled, but her growing makes perfect sense when your protagonists themselves are growing leaps and bounds every episode.
I don't appreciate my opinion being dismissed like this. This might not have been your intention, but it comes off as rather rude and insulting. Yeah, I dislike Iris, but even if I didn't, I'm not sure how well I would have bought into her becoming the Unova Champion off-screen given how her storyline went. Going from chasing after Rayqauza in Johto to being considered the strongest trainer in Unova would still be a pretty big leap regardless of how I felt about the character.
 
I don't appreciate my opinion being dismissed like this. This might not have been your intention, but it comes off as rather rude and insulting. Yeah, I dislike Iris, but even if I didn't, I'm not sure how well I would have bought into her becoming the Unova Champion off-screen given how her storyline went. Going from chasing after Rayqauza in Johto to being considered the strongest trainer in Unova would still be a pretty big leap regardless of how I felt about the character.
Well Ash went from losing to Cameron and regressing in league standing to Fighting equally to Alain a person who beat an Elite Four member in the finals of the Kalos league to winning the Alola league so I don't think it impossible for Iris to become Champion
 
This whole conversation about Iris is exactly why we need another Chronicles type series.

Nobody would complain if we actually saw some of Iris' progress while she was away.

Take Misty for example. If it weren't for the fact that we actually got to see it first hand, I'm sure everyone here would probably find Misty having a Mega Gyarados in Sun and Moon extremely contrived considering how she did nothing while in Johto
 
This whole conversation about Iris is exactly why we need another Chronicles type series.

Nobody would complain if we actually saw some of Iris' progress while she was away.

Take Misty for example. If it weren't for the fact that we actually got to see it first hand, I'm sure everyone here would probably find Misty having a Mega Gyarados in Sun and Moon extremely contrived considering how she did nothing while in Johto
I was about to say almost exactly this word for word. You read my mind.
 
Well Ash went from losing to Cameron and regressing in league standing to Fighting equally to Alain a person who beat an Elite Four member in the finals of the Kalos league to winning the Alola league so I don't think it impossible for Iris to become Champion
The key difference here is that we saw Ash's progression from those three series. We didn't just jump from losing to Cameron to the Kalos League finals and then to the Alola League victory. We saw Ash's progression and I think having different teams helped too, if only because it made his accomplishments in XY and to a degree SM more believable than if he kept using the same Pokemon from Unova for some reason. Plus, I still maintain that winning the Alola League is not as huge as fans make it out to be. It isn't nothing and I'm glad that Ash won, but it's not the best thing he's ever accomplished either.

It doesn't really work as a way to justify Iris becoming the Champion since we didn't see really any progression for her. Going from losing to Clair to being the Unova Champion is a pretty huge leap. It's like just showing the start and end of the story. Losing the middle of the story, or arguably the whole process she went through to become Champion, doesn't really make this comparison work.

This whole conversation about Iris is exactly why we need another Chronicles type series.

Nobody would complain if we actually saw some of Iris' progress while she was away.

Take Misty for example. If it weren't for the fact that we actually got to see it first hand, I'm sure everyone here would probably find Misty having a Mega Gyarados in Sun and Moon extremely contrived considering how she did nothing while in Johto
That would help out a lot. Admittedly, I still think that making Iris the Unova Champion in the anime would have been a tough sell regardless. Actually showing how she got to that point might have made it more believable and satisfying, but it still might have come off as a forced way to make her match her video game counterpart. At least video game Iris was a proper Gym Leader and the games have established Gym Leaders climbing up the ranks beforehand too. It would really come down to the execution and how the battles went. That being said, being able to actually see how she progressed between her special and her return instead of hand waving it all away with improving off-screen would still be preferable, especially when having another Chronicles type of series would help out a lot of other older characters too.
 
I don't appreciate my opinion being dismissed like this. This might not have been your intention, but it comes off as rather rude and insulting. Yeah, I dislike Iris, but even if I didn't, I'm not sure how well I would have bought into her becoming the Unova Champion off-screen given how her storyline went. Going from chasing after Rayqauza in Johto to being considered the strongest trainer in Unova would still be a pretty big leap regardless of how I felt about the character.
Sorry if it came across as rude, that wasn’t my intention, but in hindsight that wasn’t the best phrasing by me so I will apologise there. I just didn’t mind Iris' progression too much, what I did mind was the battle. I guess our perspectives differ due to how much we've seen of the show beforehand, so I guess I'll end the discussion from my side here. I tried my best to enjoy the battle, and was hyped. I literally tuned into the episode at the end of a busy day due to the hype, and while I tried to enjoy it at every point.. the victory felt really, really hollow to me thanks to the Dragonite situation.
 
I’m only writing this because I genuinely want to learn, but what is it about Koharu that makes her interesting/good character to people? Can anyone shed a light on my ignorance?

You don’t have to be battle-centric for me to enjoy a character (some of my favourite characters from TV are from more introspective views on people’s psyches - Bojack Horseman, etc.), and Koharu’s first main episode was quite nice, showing a message that there is no right in what others want, only what you want. She doesn’t want to be the professor, she doesn’t have to be. Cool!

But, that’s where it runs dry. I get her episodes afterwards are supposed to imply she’s finding her path, and what she wants to do, but from the episodes she’s been in, I really don’t see it. Out of a Water Obstacle Race, treating a Horse, escaping a Durant Infestation, supporting a Feebas, a few fossil explorations, and helping love, I can’t really see a pattern for what she’s THOROUGHLY enjoyed. Maybe Contests will intrigue her?
Maybe it’s a slice of life with her, taking in everything you can and seeing what it has to offer, hence the dramatic shifts in episode themes.
I’ll say, whilst this can be good, I feel as though it’s been done in the worst way, and quite frankly, Ive gotten bored of Koharu. She seems to be primarily interested in helping Pokemon, but I can’t exactly see a Ranger, Project Mew type of rescuing from her at this stage of the series.
 
I’m only writing this because I genuinely want to learn, but what is it about Koharu that makes her interesting/good character to people? Can anyone shed a light on my ignorance?

You don’t have to be battle-centric for me to enjoy a character (some of my favourite characters from TV are from more introspective views on people’s psyches - Bojack Horseman, etc.), and Koharu’s first main episode was quite nice, showing a message that there is no right in what others want, only what you want. She doesn’t want to be the professor, she doesn’t have to be. Cool!

But, that’s where it runs dry. I get her episodes afterwards are supposed to imply she’s finding her path, and what she wants to do, but from the episodes she’s been in, I really don’t see it. Out of a Water Obstacle Race, treating a Horse, escaping a Durant Infestation, supporting a Feebas, a few fossil explorations, and helping love, I can’t really see a pattern for what she’s THOROUGHLY enjoyed. Maybe Contests will intrigue her?
Maybe it’s a slice of life with her, taking in everything you can and seeing what it has to offer, hence the dramatic shifts in episode themes.
I’ll say, whilst this can be good, I feel as though it’s been done in the worst way, and quite frankly, Ive gotten bored of Koharu. She seems to be primarily interested in helping Pokemon, but I can’t exactly see a Ranger, Project Mew type of rescuing from her at this stage of the series.
Problem is Koharu is side character not main character like previous pokegirls, their role was taken by Go in JN, Durant and psyduck episodes was filler while fossil one was for Ash and Go she just tag along for her school homework or something.

While Feebas and Ponyta episodes was to make her get close to pokemons as she kind of uninterested in them like May also just like Eevee who was was still unsure which evolution to choose Koharu is unsure her future goal to choose

Koharu is like May and Serena done right, getting interested in pokemons and trying to find a goal instead of see one thing and decide that is their life goal. but problem is her lack of presence which is the reason it's taking very long.
 
I’m only writing this because I genuinely want to learn, but what is it about Koharu that makes her interesting/good character to people? Can anyone shed a light on my ignorance?

You don’t have to be battle-centric for me to enjoy a character (some of my favourite characters from TV are from more introspective views on people’s psyches - Bojack Horseman, etc.), and Koharu’s first main episode was quite nice, showing a message that there is no right in what others want, only what you want. She doesn’t want to be the professor, she doesn’t have to be. Cool!

But, that’s where it runs dry. I get her episodes afterwards are supposed to imply she’s finding her path, and what she wants to do, but from the episodes she’s been in, I really don’t see it. Out of a Water Obstacle Race, treating a Horse, escaping a Durant Infestation, supporting a Feebas, a few fossil explorations, and helping love, I can’t really see a pattern for what she’s THOROUGHLY enjoyed. Maybe Contests will intrigue her?
Maybe it’s a slice of life with her, taking in everything you can and seeing what it has to offer, hence the dramatic shifts in episode themes.
I’ll say, whilst this can be good, I feel as though it’s been done in the worst way, and quite frankly, Ive gotten bored of Koharu. She seems to be primarily interested in helping Pokemon, but I can’t exactly see a Ranger, Project Mew type of rescuing from her at this stage of the series.
I thought that the main point of Chloe's episodes was to have her slowly get to like Pokemon more so than leading up to her finding her path exactly, especially when she still doesn't know what path to take. Episodes like helping that little girl's Feebas and the fossil exploration showed her being more interested in Pokemon instead of being indifferent or unsure about them. I thought that they were building up to her catching Eevee more so than anything else with her episodes earlier in the series.

As much as I'd love Contests to come back, I don't think Chloe would work as a Coordinator. It's way too late to introduce a Contest arc and I don't think Chloe would be that interested in battles either. I'm pretty sure that they are going with the whole taking everything you can to see what it has to offer with Chloe's episodes. Despite her not liking how people assumed that she'd be a Pokemon Professor like her father, I could see her becoming a researcher. She seems to enjoy learning about Pokemon, so at this point, I think something like that would be more likely to happen than Chloe to become a Ranger or Coordinator. Being involved in Project Mew would be interesting, but she probably would have been featured in those episodes if that was going to be the case. The main reason I like her is because her conflict is pretty relatable and refreshing among other female leads. I remember fans used to point out how May didn't like Pokemon when AG, but I think that Chloe is a much better take on that kind of issue. Not only because we're actually shown how indifferent Chloe was about Pokemon at first, but we do see her slowly warming up to them. I do wish that she was a proper female lead and she could have more screentime, but I just find her likable and interesting. I can understand why you've gotten bored of her if her focus episodes don't really appeal to you though.
 
I thought that the main point of Chloe's episodes was to have her slowly get to like Pokemon more so than leading up to her finding her path exactly, especially when she still doesn't know what path to take. Episodes like helping that little girl's Feebas and the fossil exploration showed her being more interested in Pokemon instead of being indifferent or unsure about them. I thought that they were building up to her catching Eevee more so than anything else with her episodes earlier in the series.

As much as I'd love Contests to come back, I don't think Chloe would work as a Coordinator. It's way too late to introduce a Contest arc and I don't think Chloe would be that interested in battles either. I'm pretty sure that they are going with the whole taking everything you can to see what it has to offer with Chloe's episodes. Despite her not liking how people assumed that she'd be a Pokemon Professor like her father, I could see her becoming a researcher. She seems to enjoy learning about Pokemon, so at this point, I think something like that would be more likely to happen than Chloe to become a Ranger or Coordinator. Being involved in Project Mew would be interesting, but she probably would have been featured in those episodes if that was going to be the case. The main reason I like her is because her conflict is pretty relatable and refreshing among other female leads. I remember fans used to point out how May didn't like Pokemon when AG, but I think that Chloe is a much better take on that kind of issue. Not only because we're actually shown how indifferent Chloe was about Pokemon at first, but we do see her slowly warming up to them. I do wish that she was a proper female lead and she could have more screentime, but I just find her likable and interesting. I can understand why you've gotten bored of her if her focus episodes don't really appeal to you though.
Yeah, pretty much sums it up. She’s definitely handled better than May and Serena in terms of showing Pokemon in a newcomer’s light.
Sometimes I wish Lillie’s fear was implemented onto this as well, cause I thought her whole idea of getting over her fear of Pokemon was a bit short, especially considering the backstory behind it all.
 
Koharu is like May and Serena done right, getting interested in pokemons and trying to find a goal instead of see one thing and decide that is their life goal. but problem is her lack of presence which is the reason it's taking very long.
I'd say it's the opposite. May and Serena worked because they were pampered girls who had to face many obstacles in their first adventure, whereas Chloe just kept going to school and has been around Pokemon as she always has. It doesn't feel like Ash and Goh's "new job" has impacted her life that much, at least during the first 50 episodes.

Also, while in real life it's ok to not have a reason for not being into something, I feel her character would be better with one as that way she could follow a clearer path with her development.

i do think she still has enough time to improve and become memorable, though.
 
Seeing opinions on Drizzile made me think, I would actually prefer if Drizzile didn’t evolve, and stayed the way it is.

It’s goal is to be a strong independent Inteleon, but honestly, I think it would be way more compelling if Drizzile never evolved. This trope has been done so many times, where a weak Pokemon wants to become its idol/stronger (Rockruff, Litten, Chimchar, Gligar, Goomy, Noibat(?), etc.) and they often achieve it.

With the narrative of Drizzile being unhappy with the way it is, I would think it’s would be beautiful if a few episodes were spent acknowledging its strengths, perhaps through Esponage trials against other trainers and Pokemon (Accelgor, Ninjask, Kecleon, etc.), whilst implementing Goh’s own agenda of being hesitant to participate, similar to Project Mew, because of his insecurities towards his own worth, as he never had many friends growing up.
As Drizzile comes to terms with its own ability, maybe Goh can begin to reflect on himself in a similar way - it’s alright who he is, because he’s the only him, and he should never be embarrassed in his own skills, no matter what happens with Project Mew.

Lets face it. This would probably be more enjoyable than seeing Drizzile have one more episode, evolve during said spotlight, and being reduced to Cinderace status.
 
My controversial opinion, I prefer May or Dawn over Misty. I don't have the nostalgic memories of watching the original Kanto episodes many have, and May and Dawn had their own active goals in their coordinator aspirations. Yes, Misty has a great dynamic with Ash (at times on the friendly side of combative), but plotwise she contributed comparatively little. Some moments do stand out like the Whirl Cup, but there are ways the anime could have explored her position as a former gym leader to drive some plots and character interactions unique to her, such as with other gym leaders. May and Dawn also have more of a relationship with their pokemon, whereas Misty it was largely Togepi and Psyduck. Her Chronicles appearances served her well, as she was front and center instead of supporting Ash (May, Dawn and to a certain degree Serena benefitted from having storylines that set them apart from an Ash context).
 
I'd say it's the opposite. May and Serena worked because they were pampered girls who had to face many obstacles in their first adventure, whereas Chloe just kept going to school and has been around Pokemon as she always has. It doesn't feel like Ash and Goh's "new job" has impacted her life that much, at least during the first 50 episodes.

Also, while in real life it's ok to not have a reason for not being into something, I feel her character would be better with one as that way she could follow a clearer path with her development.

i do think she still has enough time to improve and become memorable, though.

I think the same way. Koharu is easily a likeable character with a lot of potential, but her own doubts and uncertainties, plus those of the producers, and the lack of a clear path, are hindering her development as a relevant character in the Pokemon World.
 
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Here's a controversial opinion I have: Sawyer is a better rival than Alain.

Sawyer is actually one of my favorite out of all the rivals, simply because of how much I love him as a character. His introduction establishes key aspects of his personality and his relationship with Ash is actually one of the more unique rival interactions. Sawyer is declaring Ash as his rival because he looks up to him, and Ash accepts. Sawyer's goal ultimately becomes to surpass Ash and when he is shown to have become Ash's equal-it has a major affect on Ash. Sure, Alain was a large reason why Ash wanted to get stronger for Ash-Greninja, but Sawyer was the catalyst for the development to really take place-and had a much bigger affect on Ash than Alain did. Sawyer was also introduced earlier on and his importance at the time wasn't made clear until way later, when he actually had a strong affect on Ash's character. The real selling point for me though, was the aftermath of his league battle with Ash. After all this kid has accomplished, going from struggling in a battle to using his analysis as a weapon sharper than a sword, making it to the QUARTER FINALS of what I believe was implied to be his first league, starting from the very bottom like Ash has and having a major affect on the person he looks up to...he loses. And when he first accepts his defeat, it's the aftermath that truly speaks to me. He looked over the matches and studied over them, but showed emotion that he was holding in: the lost affected him just as much as his win affected Ash, and that's what truly speaks to me. But through it all, he was able to focus and decided on a path for himself after the brief showing of weakness in the end. Sure, unlike Ash, he doesn't win his matches just through passion, but it's silly to say that he doesn't have any: it was his drive that literally pushed the narrative forward, after all.

Really, what I'm saying is, I love Sawyer not only because of his subtle importance in the overall narrative and his personality, but because of how impactful that one showing of weakness was.
 
Oh boy, if I stated all my controversial opinions, then it would fill the whole thread with an endless number of endless arguments, so i'll just do two for now.

Master Journeys is semi-bad so far because Journeys was rushed
Personally, i think that Journeys is beginning to suffer from the problems SM had with Lillie, but this time, on a much larger scale. The issue being that some of the major development arcs, like with Ash's Riolu and Goh's Raboot, ended much too early, with not a lot of build up, with a lot of them ending by JN048. Also let's be real, Lucario got shafted after JN048, leaving nothing for the next season, which might explain the large amount of filler in Journeys Season 2 (although this is beginning to turn around with the introduction to Project Mew in JN068)

Goh's baby-role Pokemon are more annoying then they should be
Personally, I find Grookey to be very annoying, like this thing just seems to be an annoyance everywhere it went. Sure, it has the personality of a troublemaker, but they seem to have turned the annoyance factor up to 11. I can't tell a single moment where i genuinely enjoyed Grookey on screen. The same problem also extended to Sobble, where its crying mechanic was very annoying, but it has since grown out of this habit (literally).
 
Goh's baby-role Pokemon are more annoying then they should be
Personally, I find Grookey to be very annoying, like this thing just seems to be an annoyance everywhere it went. Sure, it has the personality of a troublemaker, but they seem to have turned the annoyance factor up to 11. I can't tell a single moment where i genuinely enjoyed Grookey on screen. The same problem also extended to Sobble, where its crying mechanic was very annoying, but it has since grown out of this habit (literally).
Yeah, not going to lie, I kind of dislike Grookey. It actual has a personality, which makes me want to like it, but the gag of hitting everything with its stick has stopped being funny now, as it’s curiosity is just the way the writers intend to draw conflict and move the plot forwards. It was funny at first, especially with Mr.Mime, but unfortunately hasn’t held up.
 
Just gonna say:

SM Ash > XY Ash. In everything except design.

Don't @ me
Honestly, both are a hit or miss for me. Sometimes I prefer XY Ash's design, other times I prefer SM Ash. In some episodes I like Ash's character in XY while annoyed at his portrayal in SM; other times it's the other way around.
 
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