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Controversial opinions

After talking about it in the general anime thread, I figured it would be better to say it here: The writters are genuinely expecting anyone to still care about this supossed rivalry with Bea?

Bea and Ash interacted for just two eps and they barely got anything going on. It's not a rivalry such as Gary's, or Alain's, or much less Paul's. Not even close of either of those I just listed. Why do we have to be excited for it? We know almost nothing about Bea. The narrative doesn't makes me care about her, personally speaking. I guess she's fine and all, but there's not a lot going on for her. Her rivalry with Ash is super shallow is extremely poorly done.

And serious talk: you don't get to only use a character twice, not give her any sort of personality, story, or arc, define her as a rival for your protagonist, expend 42 episodes (it gets worse because this number is even higher since we don't know when she's gonna appear) without her even appearing physically or even mentioned by anyone, and conceivably expect anyone to still care about this character and her supossed role as a rival.

Technically, Bea did make a physical cameo appearance at the end of JN077, so it would mark 38 episodes since her last appearance in JN039. Of course, since she had absolutely no impact on the episode, her appearance there was absolutely inconsequential.

In fact, JN077 marked the first appearance of any SwSh game characters since JN055, while the upcoming JN082 is the first major appearance of any SwSh game characters since JN055. Irregardless of my opinion on the Gen VIII games, JN has really done a disservice to Sword and Shield.
 
After talking about it in the general anime thread, I figured it would be better to say it here: The writters are genuinely expecting anyone to still care about this supossed rivalry with Bea?

Bea and Ash interacted for just two eps and they barely got anything going on. It's not a rivalry such as Gary's, or Alain's, or much less Paul's. Not even close of either of those I just listed. Why do we have to be excited for it? We know almost nothing about Bea. The narrative doesn't makes me care about her, personally speaking. I guess she's fine and all, but there's not a lot going on for her. Her rivalry with Ash is super shallow is extremely poorly done.

And serious talk: you don't get to only use a character twice, not give her any sort of personality, story, or arc, define her as a rival for your protagonist, expend 42 episodes (it gets worse because this number is even higher since we don't know when she's gonna appear) without her even appearing physically or even mentioned by anyone, and conceivably expect anyone to still care about this character and her supossed role as a rival.
Yea it’s honestly hard to class or even justify Bea as being called a rival given just how little that she’s done. Sure she also aims for Leon but at that point, she’s no different than her game counterpart considering that her goal is the same and yet she isn’t a rival there. Maybe the writers consider that it’s because she’s a competitor in the PWC rather than just a gym leader for her region’s league but at that point everyone competing is a rival yet no such statement has been made for them sans Raihan.
 
Bea is a rival for the PWC but not in the traditional sense. After Ash beats her next time I don’t think she’ll appear anymore after that (besides maybe watching Ash battles on her TV), she’s basically a recurring Gym leader which is what she is. We’re not supposed to view it as the same thing as older rivals, she’s basically just the same as those Gym leaders Ash has an arc with in previous series like Korrina, Claire, Brawly, etc
 
Technically, Bea did make a physical cameo appearance at the end of JN077, so it would mark 38 episodes since her last appearance in JN039. Of course, since she had absolutely no impact on the episode, her appearance there was absolutely inconsequential.

In fact, JN077 marked the first appearance of any SwSh game characters since JN055, while the upcoming JN082 is the first major appearance of any SwSh game characters since JN055. Irregardless of my opinion on the Gen VIII games, JN has really done a disservice to Sword and Shield.
Yeah, but like, and I risk sounding pedant in this one, I know: I don't really count that as an proper appearance since she didn't showed up in the flesh (so to speak) and didn't interacted with anyone or anything, besides the fact that she wasn't mentioned in no moment by any of the characters or even the narrator.

That small, 5 seconds still at the end of ep doesn't really feels like a part of the ep either, to me. I know it's in the ep, but it almost feels like an extra image added just to remind us that the character is still, in fact, a thing. And it also didn't had any impact on the plot of the ep, so... :whistle:

And I agree with you: regardless of opinion about the games, Galar didn't deserved this disservice.
 
After talking about it in the general anime thread, I figured it would be better to say it here: The writters are genuinely expecting anyone to still care about this supossed rivalry with Bea?

Bea and Ash interacted for just two eps and they barely got anything going on. It's not a rivalry such as Gary's, or Alain's, or much less Paul's. Not even close of either of those I just listed. Why do we have to be excited for it? We know almost nothing about Bea. The narrative doesn't makes me care about her, personally speaking. I guess she's fine and all, but there's not a lot going on for her. Her rivalry with Ash is super shallow is extremely poorly done.

And serious talk: you don't get to only use a character twice, not give her any sort of personality, story, or arc, define her as a rival for your protagonist, expend 42 episodes (it gets worse because this number is even higher since we don't know when she's gonna appear) without her even appearing physically or even mentioned by anyone, and conceivably expect anyone to still care about this character and her supossed role as a rival.
Virgil flashbacks
 
Out of curiosity, could you elaborate there? What makes Tracey better than Brock?

Reasons to dislike Brock:
  • Obligatory anime pervert character
  • Basically flanderized into a joke by the end of Kanto
  • None of his pokémon seems to do anything for him or others
  • Hardly do anything "Breeder" related untill DP, but then decide to be a doctor
Reasons to like Tracey:
  • Not a creepy pervert, no not even then!
  • Can draw really good pictures
  • His Venonat and Marill audiovisually helps him in his job
  • Has a really cool Scyther that can rival Charizard
 
Reasons to dislike Brock:
  • Obligatory anime pervert character
  • Basically flanderized into a joke by the end of Kanto
  • None of his pokémon seems to do anything for him or others
  • Hardly do anything "Breeder" related untill DP, but then decide to be a doctor
I wouldn't really call Brock a pervert character. His gag could sometimes cross the line, particularly when he didn't accept a girl saying no or clearly made them more comfortable, but Brock usually just flirted with them and accepted when they said no. He wasn't like the creepy old man hitting on girls or sexually harassing girls as a gag. You could argue that his gag hasn't aged well and there are some episodes that I'd agree with that. The Love Totodile Style episode in particular really stands out to me in a bad way in that department, but calling Brock a pervert character just seems too harsh for me. He's much more of a flirt than a pervert. I agree that they overused his gag to the point where that's probably what fans remember Brock the most for, which is a bit of a shame. He had some good moments in Kanto, he felt like a mentor to Ash in a way, possibly because of how he was older, and Brock's best focused episodes were in AG and DP. I'm a bit surprised that you think he was flanderized into a joke by the end of Kanto. I thought that they used that gag much more sparingly in Kanto. It wasn't until Johto that they really went overboard with it.

Brock's original team was pretty bland, but I can say the same thing about Misty's original team with the exceptions of Psyduck and Togepi. I think his AG and DP teams were generally better in large part because they didn't give him as many Pokemon. The show wasn't really interested in giving anyone besides Ash and Team Rocket focus during the Kanto portion of the original series and in Brock'ss case, I'm not sure if they really knew what being a Breeder in the anime would really entail. I actually like Brock deciding to become a Pokemon Doctor instead. It gave him a much more tangible goal to work towards and learning about Pokemon health was seemingly a part of being a Breeder, so it wasn't like his time being a Pokemon Breeder was a waste. It made a lot of sense when he spent time in AG and especially DP treating injured Pokemon pretty frequently.
Reasons to like Tracey:
  • Not a creepy pervert, no not even then!
  • Can draw really good pictures
  • His Venonat and Marill audiovisually helps him in his job
  • Has a really cool Scyther that can rival Charizard
I'm not sure if drawing really good pictures would really give Tracey much of an edge here. It fits in with being a Pokemon Watcher and making drawings of Pokemon is cool, but I just never really thought of that as a reason to like him. Having his Pokemon actively help Tracey with his goal is pretty cool. I liked Tracey's Scyther and its capture episode was pretty cool, but it kind of didn't really do much afterwards. Even the rivalry between it and Charizard was only there for one episode. Its capture episode was still the best Tracey episode though.
 
Out of curiosity, could you elaborate there? What makes Tracey better than Brock? This is the first time I’ve seen this opinion, so I’d love to read the reasoning.
I know I'm not the one you asked but Tracey is the first main character in the Anime to expand on the role of Pokemon and show the audience what they can be used for outside of fighting, plus the reason Brock joined the main gang in the first place is more stupid than Tracey's.
 
calling Brock a pervert character just seems too harsh for me. He's much more of a flirt than a pervert

Hitting on every girl you met is not flirting...
I'm a bit surprised that you think he was flanderized into a joke by the end of Kanto. I thought that they used that gag much more sparingly in Kanto
Not really.

I know I'm not the one you asked but Tracey is the first main character in the Anime to expand on the role of Pokemon and show the audience what they can be used for outside of fighting
There is also Todd Snap, who was part of the cast for a few episodes, but still I prefer drawing to photographing.

He does draw a bunch of women characters in somewhat sexy poses even though his goal'd be to do Pokemon only.
As I said before, no, not even then.

I'm pretty sure that's a replacement for Takeshi's "pervy" gag, and a pretty bad one imo.
Yeah, no. Drawing people is not a bad thing.
 
I know I'm not the one you asked but Tracey is the first main character in the Anime to expand on the role of Pokemon and show the audience what they can be used for outside of fighting, plus the reason Brock joined the main gang in the first place is more stupid than Tracey's.
I can understand the appeal of Tracey showing the audience how else to connect with Pokemon outside of battling, but I don't really see how Brock's reason for joining the main cast was stupid. He wanted to fulfill his own dream after his father came back to run the Gym and unlike Tracey, Brock asked if it was okay to come along on Ash's journey. Tracey invited himself because he wanted to meet Professor Oak. Admittedly, it isn't the worst reason for a character to join the main cast and I do think he became a good friend for both Ash and Misty as the arc progressed, but I don't think his reason for joining up with them was better than Brock's.

Hitting on every girl you met is not flirting...
It's obviously done for more comedic purposes, but my point was more on how Brock's behavior is closer to being a flirt than being a pervert, especially when anime perverts tend to basically use sexual harassment as a gag. Brock isn't really like that. Even with how overdone his gag became, it didn't really cross the line that far. Calling him a pervert just seems so harsh and inaccurate.

Not really.
Admittedly, I haven't watched the Kanto arc for awhile, but compared to Johto, I don't think that they overused the gag. Don't get me wrong. It still happened virtually every time they ran into a pretty girl, so I didn't mean to imply that it rarely happened, but I don't think that they really went overboard with it until Johto. That's when the Misty pulling Brock by the ear gag started too and I think that they ran into more girls as COTD during Johto as well. Maybe it just felt more apparent due to Johto's longer length and the fact that there were two gags associated with Brock now, but the gag didn't really seem overdone or flanderized Brock by the end of Kanto.
 
As I said before, no, not even then.
Ok, I didn't understand the meaning of "no, not even then" beforehand.


Yeah, no. Drawing people is not a bad thing.
It's still basically the same running gag though, just made in a different way. Not as straighrt-forward, but nonetheless the same.

It's obviously done for more comedic purposes, but my point was more on how Brock's behavior is closer to being a flirt than being a pervert, especially when anime perverts tend to basically use sexual harassment as a gag. Brock isn't really like that. Even with how overdone his gag became, it didn't really cross the line that far. Calling him a pervert just seems so harsh and inaccurate.
Exactly. To me, Takeshi is just a teenage boy who's easily attracted by attractive older women, you can see that none of his advances work (except in some few rare cases). Very far from a pervert to be frank. When saying anime pervert characters I think of Mutenroshi or Jiraya lol

Admittedly, I haven't watched the Kanto arc for awhile, but compared to Johto, I don't think that they overused the gag. Don't get me wrong. It still happened virtually every time they ran into a pretty girl, so I didn't mean to imply that it rarely happened, but I don't think that they really went overboard with it until Johto. That's when the Misty pulling Brock by the ear gag started too and I think that they ran into more girls as COTD during Johto as well. Maybe it just felt more apparent due to Johto's longer length and the fact that there were two gags associated with Brock now, but the gag didn't really seem overdone or flanderized Brock by the end of Kanto.
For me it's the case of Takeshi perhaps "overstaying his welcome". It's not that I don't like him, it's just that he started to fall into the background more and more as AG started, having few to no character development. By AG the gag didn't work for me anymore, especially when OLM decided to have Masato replace Kasumi in pulling him away by his ear. Then repeating it all over again with Gregguru poisoning him instead became old pretty fast.
 
Yeah, no. Drawing people is not a bad thing.
In my opinion, drawing people inappropriately or not without their consent just feels weird and creepy to me. With Brock, the girls at least know who the creep is. With Tracey, they don't.

I like Tracey well enough, but I can understand why people don't like him, especially when you add on the fact that he was meant to replace Brock. His intentions for joining Ash and Misty were also questionable to some people: he joined them largely because of their association with Professor Oak, and even though I believe he became actual friends with them later on, that can be a huge turn off to some people.
 
There's a controversial opinion, I actually like Tohru. I have the impression most people dislike him, either for personality or low contribution to the show, but I find him amusing in a way or another. That joke where he says he's a prodigy cameraman, and Satoshi mistakes "camera" for "Kamex" (changed to master for masker in the dub), culminating in him showing up with a Kamex head has always made me crack.
 
For me it's the case of Takeshi perhaps "overstaying his welcome". It's not that I don't like him, it's just that he started to fall into the background more and more as AG started, having few to no character development. By AG the gag didn't work for me anymore, especially when OLM decided to have Masato replace Kasumi in pulling him away by his ear. Then repeating it all over again with Gregguru poisoning him instead became old pretty fast.
I can understand that. While I never really had a problem with how long Brock stayed in the series, the notion that he overstayed his welcome and became too stale is a pretty common opinion among fans. That would make the gag wear out a lot more on people too. I actually liked Croagunk poisoning Brock. It definitely helped that it was a different take on the gag instead of just lazily giving Misty's gag to Max. It was the same basic idea of Brock getting punished for hitting on girls, but having a different setup was funnier and more refreshing to me.
 
To Brock's credit, he's not so much a pervert as he is just overly romantic towards women upon first sight. When I think of characters who are unapologetic perverts, ones like Master Roshi from Dragon Ball or Miroku from Inuyasha come to mind. Brock simply pours his heart out for women only to be routinely rejected. And the rare times that he didn't get pushed away like in "The Heartbreak of Brock", he typically doesn't even know how to proceed and screws it up for himself. While I do agree that his gag became stale very quickly, I wouldn't go so far to say it was a harmful stereotype so much as it was an overused one.
 
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I think I’ve already said this but...
Am I the only who doesn’t care if animation is clearly good or bad unless it looks like something that a kid made. I don’t care that XYs animation limited the characters and that SM made it more expressive, I care way more about the art style than the animation.
 
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