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Controversial opinions

His Sceptile was still a Grovyle at the Hoenn League and had a case for being his 3rd strongest behind Glalie and Swellow.It apparently got stronger when it came back at the sinnoh league which had nothing to do with Ash.
I'd actually argue the opposite; Ash is the one who inspired Sceptile to keep improving and taught it whatever methods it continued using to train when he wasn't there to directly supervise it.
I think that speaks much more highly of him as a trainer than if his Pokémon stop improving when he wasn't hovering over their shoulder.
And indeed, we see many of his Pokémon regularly continue to make progress without him, learning new moves or gaining more power. Even the lazy Snorlax apparently keeps up it's training off-screen.
 
I'd actually argue the opposite; Ash is the one who inspired Sceptile to keep improving and taught it whatever methods it continued using to train when he wasn't there to directly supervise it.
I think that speaks much more highly of him as a trainer than if his Pokémon stop improving when he wasn't hovering over their shoulder.
And indeed, we see many of his Pokémon regularly continue to make progress without him, learning new moves or gaining more power. Even the lazy Snorlax apparently keeps up it's training off-screen.
You're still missing the point though,that NONE of this had anything to do with Ash and what I mean by that is he wasn't visibly there training with them to get stronger and learn new moves.

Paul was willing to do the dirty work and train his pokemon all the way till night-time.All of his pokemon are powerful because of Paul.He trained up multiple juggernauts without relying on another source like the Air Battle Master or Charcific Valley.His Elekid and Ursaring became what they were in short period of time because of Paul.Torterra's strength is because of Paul.Drapion was an absolute monster and we didn't see it until the sinnoh league.
 
Right, now I'm getting lost. People do realize that Paul is a rival, right? He's not another protagonist, he's not who the narrative of DP follows: Ash is. Trying to compare who is the better trainer makes no sense to me because they train under vastly different styles. You'd be missing the entire point of the Ash/Paul rivalry if you're trying to say one works better than the other, because there really is no true measurement to say so. We don't have all the factors to definitively say one is "better" than the other. Especially since it has been proven that both styles work toward the end goal: to make their pokemon stronger. You can argue semantics all you want, but the fact remains that this is like comparing apples and oranges. Two different fruit, vastly different components and values, but both make you healthier in some way if you eat it.

What does "better" even mean in this context? Which one is more efficient? Which one has better teamwork? Which one improves their pokemon faster? Which one has brought on more successes? It's such a vague concept that there's no way to say which one it is.
 
Right, now I'm getting lost. People do realize that Paul is a rival, right? He's not another protagonist, he's not who the narrative of DP follows: Ash is. Trying to compare who is the better trainer makes no sense to me because they train under vastly different styles. You'd be missing the entire point of the Ash/Paul rivalry if you're trying to say one works better than the other, because there really is no true measurement to say so. We don't have all the factors to definitively say one is "better" than the other. Especially since it has been proven that both styles work toward the end goal: to make their pokemon stronger. You can argue semantics all you want, but the fact remains that this is like comparing apples and oranges. Two different fruit, vastly different components and values, but both make you healthier in some way if you eat it.

What does "better" even mean in this context? Which one is more efficient? Which one has better teamwork? Which one improves their pokemon faster? Which one has brought on more successes? It's such a vague concept that there's no way to say which one it is.
Lowkey what you're saying is Ash is superior.You guys keep hiding behind "both were complete opposites,had their flaws and different styles" but really want to say that Ash's style was better.

A lot of times it seems like I'm the only one who gives Paul the credit he deserves it goes beyond him as just a rival,we have to include the team he was able to build up and how great of a battler he was.He played a big part in his two full battles w/ Ash for being one of the best battles in the entire series.
 
Lowkey what you're saying is Ash is superior.You guys keep hiding behind "both were complete opposites,had their flaws and different styles" but really want to say that Ash's style was better.
No, I am not. If that's what you choose to take away from my comment, then this is my last post on the matter because it's clear my point is not getting across. Neither style is superior than the other, both have their strengths and weaknesses, and you can't really compare them on account of how vastly different they are. Nobody is discrediting Paul or denying that he played a big part in his battle with Ash. Nobody is claiming that Ash has the superior style. Nobody is claiming that one is better than the other. All I said was that both styles are equally valid and "better" is far too vague of a term to properly debate on here. Sometimes I personally prefer the tough love method, similar to Paul's style; but other times I prefer the kind love-for lack of better term-method, similar to Ash's style. It's why I loved Paul's relationship with Torterra so much and why I liked Ash's Snivy: both had elements of the "tough love" trope that was really well played. This is also why I love all of Ash's pokemon in general: they all have a feeling of camaraderie and friendship that Paul's pokemon simply do not show.
really want to say that Ash's style was better.
Also, last thing, this is entirely your opinion. There is no evidence backing this claim up at all, so I'm not entirely sure why you're stating this as if it's fact. Idk, this just confuses me.

That's all I'm going to say on this matter, so...:bulbaWave:
 
What are you talking about dude?I only said it seems like I'm the only one who gives the character the credit he deserves.Am I wrong about that?
Okay, frankly, I'm just saying: this is my last post on the subject.

No. You are not on the wrong for loving a character, nor defending him, nor even giving him credit for what he achieved. But what I personally think you're on the wrong about is both on the fact that you're claiming everything you say are steel-hard facts (which they aren't, it's all subjective of your opinions), and the fact that you are acting extremely defensive over a civilized conversation and interpreting everything people are telling you as personal attacks on Paul's character.

No one is saying Ash is 'better' than Paul because the criteria and even the very concept of ''better'' is too vague and subjective to truly be defined, as AnimeJewel perfectly explained. Also, again, no one here is dismissing Paul's achievements.
 
Okay, frankly, I'm just saying: this is my last post on the subject.

No. You are not on the wrong for loving a character, nor defending him, nor even giving him credit for what he achieved. But what I personally think you're on the wrong about is both on the fact that you're claiming everything you say are steel-hard facts (which they aren't, it's all subjective of your opinions), and the fact that you are acting extremely defensive over a civilized conversation and interpreting everything people are telling you as personal attacks on Paul's character.

No one is saying Ash is 'better' than Paul because the criteria and even the very concept of ''better'' is too vague and subjective to truly be defined, as AnimeJewel perfectly explained. Also, again, no one here is dismissing Paul's achievements.
Is Paul not better at "training" his pokemon and making them stronger compared to Ash?Just eliminate the love part and answer that question.None of you still haven't done that.I get that they're polar opposites and had their flaws but if you had to pick between the two which one are you going with and why?
 
Training is not just making a Pokémon "stronger". It also involves their all-round growth and development. Can’t use a Pokémon at a league if it’s way too abused to fight and is too afraid courtesy of PTSD. You cannot separate how a Pokémon treats their Pokémon from the concept of Pokémon training.

You’re clearly not interested in hearing any opinions that even in a slightest way differ from others so I'm not sure why have you picked the controversial opinions thread, I won’t reply to the quoted of mine since the reply is full of putting words in my mouth. I'm not interested in discussing it anymore with you. Have a great day!
 
Training is not just making a Pokémon "stronger". It also involves their all-round growth and development. Can’t use a Pokémon at a league if it’s way too abused to fight and is too afraid courtesy of PTSD. You cannot separate how a Pokémon treats their Pokémon from the concept of Pokémon training.
Is Paul not better at "training" his pokemon and making them stronger compared to Ash?Just eliminate the love part and answer that question.None of you still haven't done that.I get that they're polar opposites and had their flaws but if you had to pick between the two which one are you going with and why?
How hard is it to answer one question?Why is there so much goalpost moving?Is it because you can't prove my claim wrong?So does this mean deep down you know that Ash can't train up his pokemon at the same capacity as Paul did with his?
 
Considering how important Leon is to this show it is fucking BAFFLING that his little BROTHER is nowhere to be found?!
Honestly, I'm not the type of person to jump to conspiracy theories, but it’s borderline ridiculous how much Galar has been mistreated for being the latest region:
1. Only region to not have a series devoted to it.
2. Only region to not get its "thing" (Gym Quests/Trials) adapted.
3. The mechanic is the least used in the franchise's history for the anime.
4. The worst developed set of starters by far.
5. The only Galar Pokémon on Ash's team rival Palpitoad for the worst developed Pokémon, and Torterra for the biggest jobber.
 
Also this show has the WORST illiterations of Ash and Pikachu by FAR

Yes even moreso than BW. I said what I said

I literally can't even recognize Pikachu in this show.
They literally turned Pikachu into a jerk. Not the kind of funny lovable rogue he was in the OS but like an actual jerk who gets jealous of newborn babies (No. I will not ever let that go)
And the directors actually had the audacity to claim he was an "Angel" because of it.
If that doesn't go to show how grossly they misinterpreted Pikachu's character for the sake of cuteness idk what does

Meanwhile Ash is just so fucking boring. People complain about XY Ash but JN Ash is almost the exact same?

- He's hyper competent in battles and almost never loses except for like 2 episodes (and keep in mind that he used a Baby Riolu to Battle)

- Other characters like Goh worship him almost as much as people claim Serena does
(Hell even he has his own Fanclub in Alola)

- He has a Team of ridiculously Strong and Powerful Pokemon that literally look like it came out of an Edgy Fanfic writers Wet Dream
(He was literally just handed a fucking Dragonite)

Only difference is his stupidity is cracked up to 11
 
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They literally couldn't have made Ash more boring. Seriously, the guy hasn't gotten a single real focus episode. And no, the PWC battles are not Ash-focused episodes. They never actually focus on Ash as much as they do the battle or other random things. I can't think of a single episode Ash has gotten that actually intrigued me or was entertaining in some way or another.
 
Ash has been poorly handled in general this series. His personality is either excited to battle or hungry. They haven't given him any meaningful arcs or development. They didn't give him a team that we could watch grow, instead opting to have 60% of his captures already be at their final stage with little development or arcs. If they DO get any, they rush through it and sideline them again. They even have Ash sidelined frequently for Goh, who isn't that great to begin with. I don't exactly think he's worshiped though. I'm also not bothered by competent Ash is in battle, but the battles aren't that exciting anymore because a lot of the time its just one of his Pokemon getting pummeled before getting a lucky critical hit. We don't see Ash coming up with creative strategies to get around a certain move anymore or coming up with interesting counters, which is what made battles in XY so interesting.
 
- Other characters like Goh worship him almost as much as people claim Serena does
(Hell even he has his own Fanclub in Alola)
It's literally just one character? As opposed to his entire travelling party, both rivals and even an evil team boss in XY.

It's also natural he has fans in Alola, given he's their first champion. Even then, we only saw, what, two kids who acknowledged this fact while everyone else didn't even bat an eyelid? It was far from worship.

His personality is either excited to battle or hungry. They haven't given him any meaningful arcs or development.

Isn't his PWC quest a meaningful arc? He's working towards his biggest goal yet, going through numerous challenges in the process. That sounds like a meaningful arc for Ash to me.
 
Isn't his PWC quest a meaningful arc?
No.
He's working towards his biggest goal yet,
That’s just on paper. Has the character treated it as anything more notable than he’s done before? No. It got forgotten for a decent chunk of the saga.

The so called “biggest goal accomplishing team” is literally the least developed in the history of the anime and that’s not even an exaggeration.

I don’t see how the show has treated it any more seriously than the average gym quest.
numerous challenges in the process.
Numerous = One. She’s named Bea. The PWC hasn’t been any more difficult for Ash than the gym quests. There have been no character arcs highlighting the scale, in fact, no attention is being paid to that particular aspect.

I cannot see how functionally, based on on screen material, PWC is big for Ash as a character based on his behaviour rather than the show telling us it’s important for him and the scale of it.

I haven’t found any “meaning” in this “arc” so far other than the show telling us in the intro that it’s the biggest thing Ash has done.
 
It's literally just one character? As opposed to his entire travelling party, both rivals and even an evil team boss in XY.

It's also natural he has fans in Alola, given he's their first champion. Even then, we only saw, what, two kids who acknowledged this fact while everyone else didn't even bat an eyelid? It was far from worship.
Ash doesn't have a traveling party, a rival, or even an evil team boss to deal with in Journeys

And it doesn't detract away from literally everything else I said
 
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