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Controversial opinions

I completely agree. The whole setup for Dawn to get Togekiss was bad. I can understand that they wanted to help the princess to experience a Contest, but when it was seemingly the last one before the Grand Festival, no one had a problem with preventing other Coordinators a chance to get their last ribbon as a result. Giving her a fully evolved Pokemon right before the Grand Festival felt so forced. It was like they forgot to give Dawn a full team and just added Togekiss in at the last minute. Maybe it could have worked if she had bonded with Togekiss prior to the princess giving it to her, but even then, I think it would have been a tough sell. Dawn's other Pokemon took part in multiple Contests throughout the series while Togekiss just got a free ride to the Grand Festival. Ambipom's release is more frustrating, but Togekiss addition to the team is a pretty close second for me. They really should have given Dawn a sixth Pokemon earlier in the series instead of waiting until just before the Grand Festival began to give her one.
This is why, if I could've written this part, I would've made it a lot earlier, perhaps on the way for her to get her 4th ribbon. But instead of giving it to her as a Togekiss, I would've instead given her a Togetic (and probably cut the Princess plot line off, since making Dawn get her 4th ribbon by disguising someone else as her wouldn't have been good in an ethic sense imo), so not only does it gets some love on it's second form (cuz c'mon, Togetic is the least showcased of the entire line), but there's enough time to get it and fully evolve it in a way that doesn't feels contrived.

I frankly don't think Togekiss being added was a bad thing, especially since it did something no one else on her team did: aerial mobility. Dawn wasn't locked to the ground anymore and had a bunch of other possibilities now that she also had access to the sky, which is something we caught a glimpse on the final Dawn X Zoey battle. But yeah... it should've earlier than it was.
 
I like the personality of Togekiss itself but the timing in which she got it was really bad.

I know that if May got a fully evolved 3 stage pokemon handed to get only 2 episodes before her Grand Festival, people would have been mad and called her a Mary sue. For some reason also Dawn getting a baby Cyndaquil that was strong right after it hatched (in the very next ep it was giving Ash's Grotle trouble in battle) was fine with people yet I remember people disliking how strong May's Squirtle was since it was young too. A lot of people gave Dawn's pokemon a free pass for the same things they criticized May's team about.
 
This is why, if I could've written this part, I would've made it a lot earlier, perhaps on the way for her to get her 4th ribbon. But instead of giving it to her as a Togekiss, I would've instead given her a Togetic (and probably cut the Princess plot line off, since making Dawn get her 4th ribbon by disguising someone else as her wouldn't have been good in an ethic sense imo), so not only does it gets some love on it's second form (cuz c'mon, Togetic is the least showcased of the entire line), but there's enough time to get it and fully evolve it in a way that doesn't feels contrived.

I frankly don't think Togekiss being added was a bad thing, especially since it did something no one else on her team did: aerial mobility. Dawn wasn't locked to the ground anymore and had a bunch of other possibilities now that she also had access to the sky, which is something we caught a glimpse on the final Dawn X Zoey battle. But yeah... it should've earlier than it was.
I would have liked to see Dawn raising it from a Togepi myself. Togetic would probably have made it easier to get to Togekiss, it definitely has the least amount of attention of its evolution line and it might have been weird for Togepi to evolve when Buneary didn't despite being caught much earlier, but it would have been pretty cool to see a Togepi battle properly. Misty's Togepi barely battled and seeing the full evolution line battle throughout DP would have been interesting. It also probably would have made Dawn getting a Togekiss more satisfying if we saw her raise it from a Togepi.

Togekiss providing some aerial mobility for Dawn did give her something new to work with. As much as I hate how she got Togekiss, I can understand one reason why it happened. The writers wanted both Dawn and Zoey to have one new Pokemon that they were both unfamiliar with during their battle. Dawn was caught off guard by Zoey's Gallade and Zoey wasn't prepared for Togekiss's flying at points either. Dawn getting more aerial mobility with Togekiss would have meant more if the way she got it didn't feel so bad and contrived. If they had introduced Togekiss much earlier and had it contribute to Dawn's Contest journey instead of handing it to her on a silver plate, I probably would have been fine with it.

I like the personality of Togekiss itself but the timing in which she got it was really bad.

I know that if May got a fully evolved 3 stage pokemon handed to get only 2 episodes before her Grand Festival, people would have been mad and called her a Mary sue. For some reason also Dawn getting a baby Cyndaquil that was strong right after it hatched (in the very next ep it was giving Ash's Grotle trouble in battle) was fine with people yet I remember people disliking how strong May's Squirtle was since it was young too. A lot of people gave Dawn's pokemon a free pass for the same things they criticized May's team about.
I definitely remember people complaining about Dawn getting Togekiss at the time too. It might not be as widely hated as much as releasing Ambipom was by comparison, but I'm pretty sure that it was one of the most common complaints about her team. People were upset over how she got it and how it took attention away from the rest of her team right before the Grand Festival. May getting a fully evolved Pokemon right before the Grand Festival probably would have been poorly received too, especially when I don't think that AG Contests have aged well compared to DP Contests, but Dawn definitely didn't a get a free pass here.

I don't remember Cyndaquil being that strong after it hatched. The battle with Grotle was for practice, so I don't think it won. Giving Grotle some trouble in battle doesn't necessarily mean it was that powerful right off the bat. Grotle had more experience, but Cyndaquil still had a type advantage. Grotle's battle record wasn't the best by this point if I recall correctly and I'm pretty sure that they just wanted to make Cyndaquil look good in its first battle. It was shown to be strong, but it didn't come off as overpowered or too strong to be a newly hatched Pokemon. Although, it probably doesn't help that they've always been rather inconsistent on how newly hatched Pokemon behave. I do remember people disliking May's Squirtle. I'm not sure if it was because of how strong it was. I though that people were just annoyed with it taking a lot of screentime in her Battle Frontier Contests and learning Ice Beam right before its first Contest without any training probably didn't help matters either. Training wasn't as common in AG as it was in DP, but it still might have felt too quick and easy for May's newest Pokemon to learn a brand new move out of nowhere.
 
I would have liked to see Dawn raising it from a Togepi myself. Togetic would probably have made it easier to get to Togekiss, it definitely has the least amount of attention of its evolution line and it might have been weird for Togepi to evolve when Buneary didn't despite being caught much earlier, but it would have been pretty cool to see a Togepi battle properly. Misty's Togepi barely battled and seeing the full evolution line battle throughout DP would have been interesting. It also probably would have made Dawn getting a Togekiss more satisfying if we saw her raise it from a Togepi.
I fell that my ultimate problem with Dawn raising a Togepi tho is just because that was something that Misty had already done during Kanto and Johto. I understand your reasonings, but it's just that seeing another Togepi on the cast after having two sagas worth of content about it would've felt... redundant imo.

Yeah, seeing a Togepi actually battling and evolving would've been cool, and I definitely don't dislike Misty's Togepi/Togetic. But I can see why they skipped it and went straight to the final form. I still stand that a Togetic around the 3th-4th ribbon would've been the safest option all things considered: you get her making the bird feel earned with all the traning and evo, but you can get to Togekiss in a faster way that doesn't feels neither contrived or too rushed nor do you just make a ''''Misty's Togepi 2.0'''' so to speak.
 
I fell that my ultimate problem with Dawn raising a Togepi tho is just because that was something that Misty had already done during Kanto and Johto. I understand your reasonings, but it's just that seeing another Togepi on the cast after having two sagas worth of content about it would've felt... redundant imo.

Yeah, seeing a Togepi actually battling and evolving would've been cool, and I definitely don't dislike Misty's Togepi/Togetic. But I can see why they skipped it and went straight to the final form. I still stand that a Togetic around the 3th-4th ribbon would've been the safest option all things considered: you get her making the bird feel earned with all the traning and evo, but you can get to Togekiss in a faster way that doesn't feels neither contrived or too rushed nor do you just make a ''''Misty's Togepi 2.0'''' so to speak.
I don't think it would have been redundant. Misty had Togepi for a large portion of the original series, but it didn't really do much. She didn't attempt to train it beyond one flashback, its only battle was a cheap way for Misty to defeat Pikachu and it spent the majority of the series just being a cute arm decoration. I honestly never had a problem with new characters catching Pokemon that other characters had already caught. It wouldn't have been Misty's Togepi 2.0 any more than May's Bulbasaur would have been Ash's Bulbasaur 2.0. As long as they make them distinct enough from what the other characters caught, then I don't see the problem. It would have been distinct enough just by the virtue of actually battling consistently, something Misty's Togepi never did. I remember some people really wanted Dawn to catch the Togepi from that filler episode too. I don't know if they would have done that, but having a more mischief kind of Togepi or something with a different personality than just cute baby would make it stand out too.

It still feels kind of weird to consider Dawn getting her own Togepi redundant when plenty of new fans at the time wouldn't have been familiar with Misty or her Togepi. Plus, they've never had a problem with giving May or Dawn starters that Ash already caught, so giving Dawn one of Misty's Pokemon wouldn't have been a problem either. Togetic around the middle of Dawn's Contest journey probably would have been fine. She could have just been trying to train Togetic for a Contest before it evolved and before Zoey could see it in action. I just generally prefer it when characters raise Pokemon from their base forms and being able to see a Togepi battle would honestly be pretty refreshing.
 
Misty had Togepi for a large portion of the original series, but it didn't really do much.

How not? Misty togepi certainly did a lot of baby stuff and trivial things like saying Togepi, moving around, waving its arms and smiling at the audience. And the baby Pokémon was the star of the show, when it was doing these things.
 
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How not? Misty togepi certainly did a lot of baby stuff and trivial things like saying Togepi, moving around, waving her arms and smiling at the audience. And the baby Pokémon was the star of the show, when he was doing these things.
Aside from being a cute baby that would get lost every now and then, Togepi didn't really have much of a role. They did try to make it more mysterious with Togepi learning Metronome, but that didn't really go anywhere. For a long time, they didn't think that Togepi knew any attacks and Misty didn't make any effort to teach it either.
 
It’s kinda funny how we all see Quilava as Dawn’s de facto Johto marketing when she already had two other pokemon that evolve from Johto representation in Mamoswine and Ambipom by then, both of which were better developed and contributed more to the story.

Yes, I understand that neither of them will make a casual fan shout “ohh, that one from Johto!” like Cyndaquil does, but it’s something to think about.
 
It’s kinda funny how we all see Quilava as Dawn’s de facto Johto marketing when she already had two other pokemon that evolve from Johto representation in Mamoswine and Ambipom by then, both of which were better developed and contributed more to the story.

Yes, I understand that neither of them will make a casual fan shout “ohh, that one from Johto!” like Cyndaquil does, but it’s something to think about.
I think it's because they were more ultimately there to tie in with the then newest generation. Ash only caught Aipom for his eventual trade with Dawn and because it could evolve into a new Pokemon. Dawn caught Swinub for the same reason. They still covered a bit of HG/SS promotion because they're evolution of second generation Pokemon, but by the time they were fully evolved, people would probably associate them more with D/P than with HG/SS.
 
This one is a really BIG controversial one. I dunno how many people will agree with me or not but....




I'm VERY wary of anyone who calls any of Ash's Female Traveling Companions (Misty, May, Dawn, Iris, Serena, Bonnie, Lana, Lillie, Lana, and Chloe) "Hot" or "Sexy" :sick:

Like what the Hell is wrong is you? I don't care if they're fictional or not, those are flippin CHILDREN!!! :bulbaFacepalm:

And yes this applies to Ash and his Male Companions too but I often see way more sexualizing of the Girls

These Girls are not Ash's Harem people. It's gross af how many creeps portray them like this :rolleyes:
 
Aside from being a cute baby that would get lost every now and then, Togepi didn't really have much of a role. They did try to make it more mysterious with Togepi learning Metronome, but that didn't really go anywhere. For a long time, they didn't think that Togepi knew any attacks and Misty didn't make any effort to teach it either.

Well, Togepi has just played his role which is to be a cute baby Pokémon and through that it manage to bring good humor and fun to the audience. It is also worth remembering that the end of the 90's was marked, in Japan, by the extreme success of the "tamagotchis". And Togepi represented just that in the franchise, the cute baby Pokémon that needed care, attention and affection.

In fact, when Togepi evolves, that is, when he reaches maturity to take care of himself and even others, its story ends. Togetic leaves its trainer and lights up in paradise to take care of other cute baby Pokemon.

And, to be honest, in my controversial opinion, the Pokémon masterfully played its role, so much so that it became, for a while, a quite iconic Pokemon. Thus, it was present in various installments of the franchise, often as an egg, as well as participating in several Super Smash Bros games.

Well, certainly the Pokemon could be put to better use after the Original Series, and it might seem like Togepi did little for the franchise or the anime, but it's hard to agree with that when the Pokemon was one of the most fortunate of its time.
 
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This one is a really BIG controversial one. I dunno how many people will agree with me or not but....




I'm VERY wary of anyone who calls any of Ash's Female Traveling Companions (Misty, May, Dawn, Iris, Serena, Bonnie, Lana, Lillie, Lana, and Chloe) "Hot" or "Sexy" :sick:

Like what the Hell is wrong is you? I don't care if they're fictional or not, those are flippin CHILDREN!!! :bulbaFacepalm:

And yes this applies to Ash and his Male Companions too but I often see way more sexualizing of the Girls

These Girls are not Ash's Harem people. It's gross af how many creeps portray them like this :rolleyes:
With Serena it’s the worse and I agree with you, especially where it gets beaten on like a dead horse (might as well rename the Amourshipping subreddit Serena because I see more Serena stuff than Amour stuff which is sad and people are always sexualizing her)
Then again I kinda do find XY Ash hot though I don’t want to date him if you know what I mean, he’s Serena’s man.
 
This one is a really BIG controversial one. I dunno how many people will agree with me or not but....




I'm VERY wary of anyone who calls any of Ash's Female Traveling Companions (Misty, May, Dawn, Iris, Serena, Bonnie, Lana, Lillie, Lana, and Chloe) "Hot" or "Sexy" :sick:

Like what the Hell is wrong is you? I don't care if they're fictional or not, those are flippin CHILDREN!!! :bulbaFacepalm:

And yes this applies to Ash and his Male Companions too but I often see way more sexualizing of the Girls

These Girls are not Ash's Harem people. It's gross af how many creeps portray them like this :rolleyes:
I hope you're exaggerating and this is actually not a controversial take, at least here.
 
Not so much here

But on sites like Twitter and Reddit on the other hand.... :censored:
Yikes, I mean shipping is okay in a level but Yikes again.
In regards to the newest spoiler

I actually don't really care that Dawn has no new evolved Pokemon tbh

I'm just happy to actually SEE these guys
I'm glad Buneary didn't evolve, especially after knowing what Lopunny is based on.
Same with Quilava, they are there to make contests, not for hardcore league battles.
 
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