Controversial opinions

[HiroHunter]

Sun and Moon's first 2 years were pretty lackluster but holy shit the Final year REALLY picked up

I mean SM last year was fine but it didn't make up for the first two years.

 

[Kurolegacy]

I mean you never really know

Sun and Moon's first 2 years were pretty lackluster but holy shit the Final year REALLY picked up

The same could happen here

While I’ll agree that the final year was much better than the rest, I hated the monkey’s paw we got in that the league finally got a proper arc dedicated to it fitting a league at the cost of it being the easiest league in history filled to the brim with people who had no business competing in a league. When TRio is in your top 16 and top 8 you know that the competition would have never survived even making it to any other league much less the actual competition. And don’t even get me started on battles only being 1 v 1 with the format being so egregious that the finals was only a 3 v 3 battle.

 

[Soniman]

While I’ll agree that the final year was much better than the rest, I hated the monkey’s paw we got in that the league finally got a proper arc dedicated to it fitting a league at the cost of it being the easiest league in history filled to the brim with people who had no business competing in a league. When TRio is in your top 16 and top 8 you know that the competition would have never survived even making it to any other league much less the actual competition. And don’t even get me started on battles only being 1 v 1 with the format being so egregious that the finals was only a 3 v 3 battle.

It was the furthest thing from what my ideal scenario would've been for a League win. But then again so was XY's (no continuity no reserves not enough battles shown for Ash a hastily thrown together rivalry for the climax etc) so I just learned to stop hoping less and less for what the anime could be like in my head and more open to their interpretations. Ash vs Kukui being potentially the best battle in the series)with a dynamic between Ash and Kukui/Tapu Koko built up from episode 1 getting a well done resolution also helped a lot too

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

Also, here's my potentially controversial take to fit the thread: Considering we're into the 3rd year of JN's run, I frankly don't think there's much they can do to salvage this series. This is not to say they can't do great episodes this year, ofc, but to the point of redeeming the series?... Nah, I personally don't think so.

Yeah, there's not much they can do to truly save this series. The inevitable battle between Ash and Champion Cynthia could be amazing and still not redeem the rest of the series.

It was the furthest thing from what my ideal scenario would've been for a League win. But then again so was XY's (no continuity no reserves not enough battles shown for Ash a hastily thrown together rivalry for the climax etc) so I just learned to stop hoping less and less for what the anime could be like in my head and more open to their interpretations. Ash vs Kukui being potentially the best battle in the series)with a dynamic between Ash and Kukui/Tapu Koko built up from episode 1 getting a well done resolution also helped a lot too

The reason I love Ash and Professor battle is the bond they built between them. They established it very early and showed Kukui treating Ash as if he was his son. He was meant to be a positive role model and he always encouraged Ash, while testing him as the Masked Royal. During that whole battle, you see Kukui as a father who's proud of his son and thrilled to see him succeed, but he's still not going easy on him because he knows Ash is capable and he knows Ash wants him at his best. You see Ash is putting everything he learned and you can see he's thankful for Kukui's support. They're taking the battle seriously, but they're having fun and they're both constantly amazed by each other and their Pokemon.

 

[R1ke]

I think people are too harsh on the alola league. It being that format makes sense given the context. Remember how most characters only had 1-2 pokemon to begin with. If they wanted to 3v3s all the way, they’d either have to scrap using notable characters (and fill it with pointless cotds, severely limiting the cast), or make them pull out new pokemon outta nowhere (which would conflict with prior episodes, since we’ve already gotten used to their teams). Yeah it’s not like other regions but its not trying to be.

Besides, I think it makes up for the lack of 3v3s by being so long in the first place (17 eps compared to 6 I think). The quality of battles ranges but there’s more variety still. And it’s not like the classmates did nothing there, Mallow for example actually got development. It’s weird having them, but the weak trainers still got weeded out by the semifinals anyway. Besides look at how little battles we got in Kalos, despite all the 3v3s, most just became glorified 1v1s anyway (like Trevor vs Alain).

Idk I just think there’s more to consider.

 

[Enzo]

The more I think about it, the more I think that one of the probable reasons on why so many people don't like JN, one of the biggest if I say so, is that, at least on paper, this is arguably the boldest series so far, but it didn't do it's concept well.

Like, there's so much here. Exploring past regions and characters, not following a game's story and instead having the PWC, and so much more. I gotta be honest: The writers were very bold with a lot of the decisions.

But, as I've said: the ultimate problem is that the writers are also really bad and managed to slip and fall in basically everything they proposed to do. I know that I bash JN night and day, but when I say this, I swear I'm not joking or trying to be mean, but I seriously cannot think of anything this writing team did that can be considered ''awesome'' or even ''perfect''. Everything is either mediocre at it's absolute best or pure dogshit in it's worst.

 

[Unireon]

Both Amourshipping and Pokeshipping are good and valid ships (I've shipped both at different times, now I think both work well)

I agree, the issue with them is their fans. I don't and never shipped them, though.

Journeys' problems showed up and my hopes and love for it jumped out the window.
And I used to think that this would be the 'get back to shape', like they were in DP and XY.

I just want them to dial back to the established formula in the next series.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

I agree. They need to go back to the usual format of Ash (or a new trainer) going through the region and competing in the league. I still question why they chose to go with this direction for Gen 8 of all of things when Galar has the most competitive league out of any region. It would have been perfect for a badge run.

 

[Daren]

I agree. They need to go back to the usual format of Ash (or a new trainer) going through the region and competing in the league. I still question why they chose to go with this direction for Gen 8 of all of things when Galar has the most competitive league out of any region. It would have been perfect for a badge run.

One idea I can think of is that they didn't want to devalue the Alola league by doing another one right after.
Another is that a number of the current writers never did a badge quest before since so many left after XYZ so it may not feel like the default story to them.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

One idea I can think of is that they didn't want to devalue the Alola league by doing another one right after.
Another is that a number of the current writers never did a badge quest before since so many left after XYZ so it may not feel like the default story to them.

I don't see how it would devalue the Alola League. If anything, Ash's win in Alola would have had more value because it could have been grounds for him getting an endorsement. I mean he easily could have been invited to participate by Chairman Rose or someone after hearing he was crowned the first Champion.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

I don't see how it would devalue the Alola League. If anything, Ash's win in Alola would have had more value because it could have been grounds for him getting an endorsement. I mean he easily could have been invited to participate by Chairman Rose or someone after hearing he was crowned the first Champion.

What would make this even more fitting is the fact that even in the games themselves the Galar Gym Challenge is presented as being tougher than the ones of other regions to the point that Galar's Eight Gym Leader is said to be on par with the Champions of other regions, so this could have very easily been translated into the anime as a sort of Challenge that only those trainers who've won at least one League (be it from Galar's own Minor League or the Leagues of other regions) are even eligible for endorsement, which Ash certainly would be after winning Alola. Heck, the fact that he's effectively Alola's first ever Champion could even give him a bit of additional publicity.

 

[Enzo]

What would make this even more fitting is the fact that even in the games themselves the Galar Gym Challenge is presented as being tougher than the ones of other regions to the point that Galar's Eight Gym Leader is said to be on par with the Champions of other regions, so this could have very easily been translated into the anime as a sort of Challenge that only those trainers who've won at least one League (be it from Galar's own Minor League or the Leagues of other regions) are even eligible for endorsement, which Ash certainly would be after winning Alola. Heck, the fact that he's effectively Alola's first ever Champion could even give him a bit of additional publicity.

It's kinda funny: a surprising amount of people seem to forget that it's literally canonical that the only reason that Raihan is not a Champion himself is because he wants to be the one to take Leon down and out. It's explicitly said in the games he could be Champion anywhere else if he wanted too.

Btw, didn't Opal nearly became Champion herself too? I mean, she got to the finals against Mustard back in their days. Had she defeated him, she would be the Champion of her time.

I still stand for the fact that not using the Galar Gym course is one of the biggest sins of JN.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

It's kinda funny: a surprising amount of people seem to forget that it's literally canonical that the only reason that Raihan is not a Champion himself is because he wants to be the one to take Leon down and out. It's explicitly said in the games he could be Champion anywhere else if he wanted too.

Well technically that’s just a rumor that could very well be in-universe propaganda, but that’s just me being petty.

 

[Enzo]

Well technically that’s just a rumor that could very well be in-universe propaganda, but that’s just me being petty.

Well, yeah. But there's also this:

but no other Pokémon Trainer has managed to KO as many of Leon's Pokémon as Raihan has.

So, considering that Raihan is/was canonically the person who came the closest of defeating ''The biggest Champion in the world''... I don't think that ''rumor'' is that far off the mark.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I don't think I need to explain why a baby having reality-wrapping powers is not a good thing and the perfect recipe for disaster, do I?

I've never been a fan of this concept myself. It's probably the main reason why I don't really like Molly in movie 3, or why I'm not a big fan of Togepi's Metronome in OS.

 

[Daren]

I don't see how it would devalue the Alola League. If anything, Ash's win in Alola would have had more value because it could have been grounds for him getting an endorsement. I mean he easily could have been invited to participate by Chairman Rose or someone after hearing he was crowned the first Champion.

What would make this even more fitting is the fact that even in the games themselves the Galar Gym Challenge is presented as being tougher than the ones of other regions to the point that Galar's Eight Gym Leader is said to be on par with the Champions of other regions, so this could have very easily been translated into the anime as a sort of Challenge that only those trainers who've won at least one League (be it from Galar's own Minor League or the Leagues of other regions) are even eligible for endorsement, which Ash certainly would be after winning Alola. Heck, the fact that he's effectively Alola's first ever Champion could even give him a bit of additional publicity.

In theory I agree--but in practice they just don't tie the different series' together that closely. I made my post off my guess that if he did another league they'd probably make his Alola win about as important as it is in JN--mentioned offhand once or twice with no effect on the plot--at best.

When I said they didn't want to devalue Alola I meant a meta thing where they think it would be silly to put that much effort into marketing the league win then have him do another one immediately after.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

The inevitable battle between Ash and Champion Cynthia could be amazing and still not redeem the rest of the series.

Honestly; even if JN manages to up its writing quality or suddenly go EVERYTHING good, it can never give us the best battle in the series due to the inherent flaws. The reason a lot of the battles are “best battles” because of the Pokemon’s character development.

The Paul battle was the redemption of Ash’s team’s crushing team and the completion of Infernape’s character arc, of it finally standing up against its abuser and to destroy all notions that it’s weak. It had personal stakes for the POKÉMON as well as Ash.

The Kukui battle has much of the same. Defeating Incineroar is Torracat’s entire character arc given fuel by Stoutland’s death. It is personal for Kukui because he virtually brought up the boy and taught him Alola’s values, he helped indirectly raise Ash’s Pokémon. They have a special bond that no rival had before.

JN has no such series wide connection, no overarching arc for ANY Pokémon. Even the signature “Pikachu Charizard Rivalry” is not even a rivalry. There are no personal stakes. No amount of quality by JN can erase the fact that there is literally no personal buildup for ANY battle in this series. I don’t think it can top any of the “conventional best battles” no matter what it does.

“The best battle” often has the buildup of years attached to it. JN had the opportunity with Ash attempting to fixate on Leon but nothing came out of it.

 

[R1ke]

I just feel bad for this series. Maybe because of covid. Maybe because it needs to intertwine with pokemon go. Maybe due to all the timeslot and director changes. Or maybe because it got thrust with task of promoting all 8 regions and showcasing all ~1000 pokemon for some reason. Completely changing the format of the last 6 seasons (well its kinda similar to SM).

There’s just so much bs that held back what could’ve been a great series. And it’s a shame that they have to release it to coincide with everything else, unlike other tv shows/movies which can be delayed for longer until things are better. Cause that first year really screwed it up and it’s been fighting an uphill battle ever since.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

Honestly; even if JN manages to up its writing quality or suddenly go EVERYTHING good, it can never give us the best battle in the series due to the inherent flaws. The reason a lot of the battles are “best battles” because of the Pokemon’s character development.

The Paul battle was the redemption of Ash’s team’s crushing team and the completion of Infernape’s character arc, of it finally standing up against its abuser and to destroy all notions that it’s weak. It had personal stakes for the POKÉMON as well as Ash.

The Kukui battle has much of the same. Defeating Incineroar is Torracat’s entire character arc given fuel by Stoutland’s death. It is personal for Kukui because he virtually brought up the boy and taught him Alola’s values, he helped indirectly raise Ash’s Pokémon. They have a special bond that no rival had before.

JN has no such series wide connection, no overarching arc for ANY Pokémon. Even the signature “Pikachu Charizard Rivalry” is not even a rivalry. There are no personal stakes. No amount of quality by JN can erase the fact that there is literally no personal buildup for ANY battle in this series. I don’t think it can top any of the “conventional best battles” no matter what it does.

“The best battle” often has the buildup of years attached to it. JN had the opportunity with Ash attempting to fixate on Leon but nothing came out of it.

Add that to the fact that we barely see any of the training he does and how he bonds with his current party. Whenever one of his Journeys mons gets some sort of spotlight, I cheer more out of pity for the way they’ve been written than out of genuine investment.

 

[Soniman]

This isn't on JN but Ash vs Cynthia could definitely still deliver on emotional investment strictly because of what was set up in DP but whether the character building in DP between them will play any sort of significant role in the JN but remains to be seen.