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Controversial opinions

Did that happen with Ash's battle against Crasher Wake? If I recall, he didn't have a single one of his Pokemon faint, though I can't recall if all of his Pokemon got a win there. The only thing I can remember is none of them fainted.

Been a while but I think Turtwig beat Quagsire, Pikachu beat Gyarados, and Buizel beat Floatzel, so they all got a win.
You're both right in that none of Ash's Pokemon fainted, but sadly that doesn't mean they all got wins: Turtwig didn't actually beat Quagsire because Quag turned out to know Sludge Bomb and Ice Beam, which forced Ash to switch Turtwig out. Buizel's the one who beat Quagsire.
 
nobody seems to get angry at Dragonite for stealing Gengar's spotlight.
I’m guessing because it’s actually one of the not-abysmally developed Pokémon in the cast. Honestly it feels like they want us to like Lucario but I feel it’s been pretty forced so far, while Dragonite is naturally likeable, the way they’ve written it.
 
I’m guessing because it’s actually one of the not-abysmally developed Pokémon in the cast. Honestly it feels like they want us to like Lucario but I feel it’s been pretty forced so far, while Dragonite is naturally likeable, the way they’ve written it.
I won't lie, I like Dragonite more than Gengar anyway.
 
I think like half of Ash's team were the fall guys in that battle. I mean I guess that what happens when you have infernape take out most Pauls team mostly by himself.

The jobbers were Staraptor and Torterra for Paul.

Pikachu took out Froslass
Buizel took out Gastrodon
Gliscor took out Drapion
Infernape took out Aggron, Ninjask, and Electivire
 
Honestly, the fall guy trope can work, but only if it's used very sporadically. The anime obviously doesn't do that, unfortunately. Heck, the fact that this forum at least expects every non 1v1 battle to have a fall guy speaks volumes about how common it has become. I can't even remember the last time we had a battle that allowed every Pokemon on Ash's side to walk away with a win...
It's cuz I think the ''Fall Guy'' trope is just one of those tropes where the trope itself is,,, naturally flawed (so to speak), so it's difficult to use it well because it's pretty circunstancial, cuz a lot of other things have to allign themselves well to make it have a good result.

But the ultimate problem is cuz Pokéani doesn't cares neither about using it well, nor does it cares about using this trope sporadically. So we get the atrocities we've come to grow used to.
 
It’s crazy how even the best battles like Ash vs Paul or Kukui had a fall guy. Or at least a ‘jobber’ in some way
Honestly, the fall guy trope (usually) works in 6v6 format because otherwise the battle might become too formulaic if the writers can’t keep the suspense.

The Paul and Kukui league battles did their fall guys well, I would say. Lycanroc went down swinging after doing good damage to Kukui’s two strongest pokemon and already had a sweet winning streak under its belt, so it wasn’t harmed by the loss. In Paul’s case, Staraptor was one of the two who’d gotten a win in Lake Acuity, so he had no score to settle.

The one outlier was Torterra, but that was mostly because of its losing streak. If you look only within the context of the battle it actually gave Drapion the most trouble and I’m willing to say Gliscor wouldn’t have beaten the damn thing if Torterra hadn’t softened it up so much.
 
Honestly, the fall guy trope (usually) works in 6v6 format because otherwise the battle might become too formulaic if the writers can’t keep the suspense.

The Paul and Kukui league battles did their fall guys well, I would say. Lycanroc went down swinging after doing good damage to Kukui’s two strongest pokemon and already had a sweet winning streak under its belt, so it wasn’t harmed by the loss. In Paul’s case, Staraptor was one of the two who’d gotten a win in Lake Acuity, so he had no score to settle.

The one outlier was Torterra, but that was mostly because of its losing streak. If you look only within the context of the battle it actually gave Drapion the most trouble and I’m willing to say Gliscor wouldn’t have beaten the damn thing if Torterra hadn’t softened it up so much.
Yeah, the fall guy trope really works best when the fall guys are Pokemon who have been on a winning streak. Such as Charizard being a jobber against both Harrison and Brandon, since in both instances he'd already performed impressive feats previously (knocking out half of Gary's team and being the first non-Legendary Pokemon to defeat a Legendary respectively), meaning it was safe to let him take an L so that the rest of the Pokemon participating in those battles could shine.

On the opposite side of the spectrum we have the battle against Cameron, which allowed only Pikachu and Pignite (both of whom were extremely overused in the BW saga and already had plenty of good wins under their belts by that point) while the rest of Ash's team (made up of Pokemon with spotty win ratios and sparse screentime) were the jobbers. That's another of the many reasons why I consider the battle against Cameron one of the worst ones in the anime: not just because Ash lost against an idiot who effectively threw two of his mons to the slaughterhouse and didn't even remember to bring in a full team, but also because only the overused "glory hogs" of Ash's team were allowed to get wins.
 
If there absolutely has to be a fall guy at least have the decency to not make it the same Pokémon over and over again. That’s how we ended up with the Torterra situation in Sinno.
Right. Because it starts to get old after a while.
 
If there absolutely has to be a fall guy at least have the decency to not make it the same Pokémon over and over again. That’s how we ended up with the Torterra situation in Sinno.
Also, there's another thing here. I mean, the intention of having a Pokémon going down without any wins is clearly to both to handicap Ash, so the victory is not as clean to him, and to make the opponent look more threatening by knocking one of Ash's Pokémon down and out without letting it do anything.

But it fails miserably if you put the same guy over and over in that position, because it makes the guy in question look weak. So not only does it fails at presenting the opponent as dangerous, cuz, hey, ''Wow, they took out a weak Pokémon that anybody and their moms can take out. Now that guy is sure a threat!" but it also has the added effect of being humiliating to the Pokémon who ended up in that position.

It's a lose-lose situation that the writers, to this day, as we can see with Gengar, fall into again and again.
 
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But it fails miserably if you put the same guy over and over in that position, because it makes the guy in question look weak. So not only does it fails at presenting the opponent as dangerous, cuz, hey, ''Wow, they took out a weak Pokémon that anybody and their moms can take out. Now that guy is sure a threat!" but it also has the added effect of being humiliating to the Pokémon who ended up in that position.
“Oh nooo the Hydreigon took out that Boldore that’s been getting skipped around ever since it evolved, whatever shall we do”
 
“Oh nooo the Hydreigon took out that Boldore that’s been getting skipped around ever since it evolved, whatever shall we do”
*Torterra gets taken out not even 2 minutes in''
ohnoanyways.jpg
 
I remember people complained about how long it took Serena to actually get a solid goal, though Chloe's situation is significantly worse. While her episodes aren't bad, it feels like they have absolutely no idea what to do with her. Its more apparent considering she isn't even a full time main cast member, with her only appearing once every 5 episodes or so. The whole idea of her searching for a goal has just grown tedious because it feels as if nothing is pushing her towards any goal and they haven't invented any interesting ideas for her other than meeting every Eeveelution. It truly feels like they don't know what to do with her.
 
I remember people complained about how long it took Serena to actually get a solid goal, though Chloe's situation is significantly worse. While her episodes aren't bad, it feels like they have absolutely no idea what to do with her. Its more apparent considering she isn't even a full time main cast member, with her only appearing once every 5 episodes or so. The whole idea of her searching for a goal has just grown tedious because it feels as if nothing is pushing her towards any goal and they haven't invented any interesting ideas for her other than meeting every Eeveelution.
Which is too bad, considering I like Chloe infinitely more than I like Goh.
 
Koharu isn't really billed as a main character, so her taking long to find a goal isn't a problem since she's not in most episodes anyway. It's a big difference with how Serena was a traditional female companion but they waited a year into XY to get started.

I don't think Koharu will ever get a "real" goal in this series anyway, so it doesn't really matter. She's not a regular female companion
 
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