Controversial opinions

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Wally should have been Ash’s rival in AG, but Wally beats Ash instead of Tyson and wins the Hoenn league, mirroring his progression in the games.

I don’t like how most of the PWC battles are Ash battling characters he’s already beaten. I want to see Ash vs characters he’s never beaten or never battled against (like Alain or some other elite 4 members that haven’t been seen in the anime)

Except most PWC battles being against characters Ash has already beaten before is not actually true. The only actual examples so far are Korrina, Volkner, and presumably Paul. Everyone else that Ash has battled in the PWC has been a completely new character.

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

Why do I feel Ash could have served as a sort of mentor to Wally?

He would’ve been a great mentor. And we probably would’ve got some heartfelt scenes between the two, particularly with Wally overcoming his struggles with his friends by his side.

 

[Unireon]

Well, I think that not using Mitsuru in any capacity was a wasted opportunity.

I also believe that despite him being fragile/having health issues, he would have grown and overcome them.

And it is worth noting two things:
First, many characters with that plot never want to be pitied
Second, they insist that their opponent must give their all in the match.

If the writers wanted to showcase that sympathetic aspect, they could have made Satoshi doubt about beating Mitsuru.
Even as him trying to go easy or hold back, only for the latter to call him out of that idea and asking for a proper fight.

I would have liked if either Orikasa Ai or Fujita Toshiko voiced Mitsuru.

 

[Enzo]

I think they used Brock because they didn't used Misty in AG. I mean, I'm sure the old school members here can tell this better than me, but wasn't May blasted by a large part of the fandom when she first came out because they felt like she was replacing Misty?

And also, there was the ''Max issue'' as pretty much everybody here knows.

Like, I just think they were scared of both the fandom getting mad/confused on why they changed so much at once, because it' also worth noting that AG was significantly different from the OS in various aspects, so they probably kept Brock to help ease the transition. Besides, I also suspect that, as they were in charge of writing two all new characters as members of the main cast, they probably didn't used anyone else and favored Brock precisely because they already knew what to do with his character. I mean, May turned out pretty good, but hey, Max was,,, whatever he was.

He would’ve been a great mentor. And we probably would’ve got some heartfelt scenes between the two, particularly with Wally overcoming his struggles with his friends by his side.

I think it would have been nice idea too, but are we sure AG Ash would be that good of a mentor to Wally? I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Ash, but his hot-headness and impulsiveness in AG probably wouldn't make him mentor material, at least imo.

If, however, we kept the AG Ash we had, and went with this ''unlikely and unfit mentor'' route, I could potentially see it working, as Wally's more tender personality could've helped mellow Ash out, as his interactions with May did as well.

 

[Alola]

I think Iris still holds the spot for being the most disliked female party member rather than, say May; she used to be the most in general, but I have to distinguish sexes now that Go is thing and has usurped the role from Iris.

Unlike what happened with Misty and May, Iris came right off the heels of not only an adored predecessor but one who was billed as co-protagonist along with Ash and made notable strides towards achieving her dreams unlike Misty. We had two sagas of active female leads by that point, so Iris had really big shoes to fill. And arguably came up short:

• Her goal was the same as Misty's, albeit for Dragons. And like Misty's, it's a pretty vague aspiration that doesn't have immediately discernible marks of achievements for viewers/children to recognize. And unlike Misty, Iris wasn't a Gym Leader so even that wasn't something to fall back on as a measure of her success as a Dragon-type user. It also didn't help that, unlike Misty, she barely used Dragon-type Pokémon until she was handed Dragonite; so there was some dissonance between her claims and what she actually brought to the table as a Dragon-type specialist. She didn't even catch any of Unova's Dragons aside from her Axew (which was yet another gift). In contrast, Misty had Water-types from both Kanto and Johto to reflect her goal. So, not only was Iris doing something less engaging than May and Dawn, but she wasn't as effective at it as Misty was. Which was a point of contention for fans.
  • And this all served to make Georgia, her "rival" and a self-proclaimed "Dragon Buster," even more shallow and dumb as a narrative choice.
• Her personality was hounded, especially at the beginning. Again, parallels were drawn between how she and Misty berated Ash and had various degrees of a temper. While it worked for Misty (unless one didn't like that in general), who Ash would often give it right back to, for Iris it was seen as condescending. I think a part of this was because of Ash's general nicer temperament that he had begun to develop since DP as well as him having various battling accolades, and thus credibility as a Trainer, at this point. Yet, Iris treated him with a lot of scorn, especially for events he wouldn't know about, such as when she yelled at him for not knowing about a Frillish's Cursed Body - both a Pokémon he had no idea existed until Trip sent it out, let alone an Ability he had never experienced before. Her mocking his skills as a Trainer was especially rich given that she was in no position to battle him for a good chunk of the series; when she met him, she even had a Pokemon that blatantly disobeyed her - and that made up half her party (the other half being a Pokémon that could barely battle). The "You're such a kid!" or variant of quickly served as another point of consternation for online fans, especially when Iris herself would be very hypocritical in her own behavior (like her "fear" of Ice-types on the sole reasoning of them being strong against Dragons, something Trip pointed out that, by her own logic, would mean she should fear her chosen type specialty too).
• Then there was her design, that was aged up for Ash, which drew flak when it was announced she'd be a travelling companion. Namely her voluminous hair, which people found outlandish - even moreso when it was revealed she...keeps her partner Pokémon in it.
• Her Pokémon were another point of frustration, with Axew leading the complaints and Dragonite finishing them. For the former, it was seen as a poor man's Piplup that wasn't nearly as interesting or even capable of heavy combat akin to Pikachu. That last part was huge as Axew had expressed a desire to fully evolve and such evolutions would further Iris' poorly handled goal. Aside from several brief on-screen commands of Dragon Rage or mock battles with the baby of the bunch Scraggy, Iris did little to develop Axew; what advancements it did gain were randomly given to it in the form of really strong moves in Outrage or Giga Impact (which was glaring given how much trouble using Dragon Rage was for it). If Axew did too little, then Dragonite did too much - there was no inbetween. Often cited as something handed to Iris without too much work to earn such power, she gained an unruly and plot-armor thick (at the time) fully evolved Dragonite just in time to molly-whop most of the competition in the immediately following Junior Cup (most egregiously, the fan favorite Dawn and her quad advantageous Mamoswine). It immediately shot her up strength-wise, but the source of that strength felt undeserved given the lack of work Iris had put into acquiring and raising strong Dragon-type Pokémon up until that point. Dragonite also eclipsed Excadrill and Emolga regarding screentime for battles; Excadrill was even the only member of the Unova group to not physically appear during Journeys. And Gible who? Speaking of her team, they lacked a cohesive togetherness that is often criticized of Ash's team in Journeys, as you rarely saw them interact with each other.
• She's the only female protagonist I've seen mentioned as a Mary-Stu, so take of that what you will.

I'm sure there's more, but these were all common reasons I would see and read that attributed to her widespread dislike during the time and up until her reappearance in Journeys. There was even a period of time on this forum in our section where discussion on Iris as a character was forbidden due to how volatile conversations would get, something May or any other PokeGirl did not have here. And while May got to come back in a cameo fashion akin to Misty in the saga that succeeded hers (with even more episodes than Misty and several battles to participate in), the writers never gave Iris a trip to Kalos; Cilan got to visit Kalos though, and even meet Bonnie and Clemont (as well as Brock, whereas Iris wouldn't meet anyone for some time until Go). Which was quite notable given how Ash had not one but two Dragons that Iris could have bonded with, the introduction of the Fairy-type for Iris to contend with, her contrast in personality to Serena, and the final antagonist being a Dragon-type Pokémon being manipulated by evil.

 

[Sai]

There's actually a lot of Iris fans on twitter. If you follow the anipoke tag there and see the general posts they make, screenshots they post and so forth, she has a pretty sizeable fan base now. While she still had her detractors due to some writing issues in BW, she's definitely nowhere as disliked as she used to be. Many people are also more forgiving of her now because she was the last female companion who was into battling and proactive on the main cast, both in tournaments and in fillers and villain/legendary arcs.

Getting less screentime than Dawn doesn't make a difference now that every following female lead also got less sceeentime, battles and pokemon.

As for May she's just overshadowed by people who largely stopped watching because Misty left followed by the younger generation who grew up with DP, XY, SM, etc. and are more interested in the characters they grew up with. A lot of May's original fans are around 30 years old and aren't even in the fandom anymore.

 

[FelipePR]

I think Iris still holds the spot for being the most disliked female party member rather than, say May; she used to be the most in general, but I have to distinguish sexes now that Go is thing and has usurped the role from Iris.

As for May she's just overshadowed by people who largely stopped watching because Misty left followed by the younger generation who grew up with DP, XY, SM, etc. and are more interested in the characters they grew up with. A lot of May's original fans are around 30 years old and aren't even in the fandom anymore.

- I don't think that May is among the female protagonists that people dislike the most, on the contrary, I believe that she may be the ones that people dislike the least.

- The most disliked Pokégirls are probably the most controversial, with lots of fans and detractors, like Iris and Serena, I believe. What I think is that, today, May is the most overlooked Pokégirl and, therefore, the protagonist that people are most indifferent to, according to Picardluke's precise explanation.

 

[Unireon]

Now that I had done some reviewing.....

If Mitsuru had been either a Travelling Companion or Rival during AG.....

He would have taken the role Rinto had in Journeys?
Due to the comparison some people made. It could have been his return as well.

 

[Eitarou]

Except most PWC battles being against characters Ash has already beaten before is not actually true. The only actual examples so far are Korrina, Volkner, and presumably Paul. Everyone else that Ash has battled in the PWC has been a completely new character.

Also Iris.

 

[Alola]

Getting less screentime than Dawn doesn't make a difference now that every following female lead also got less sceeentime, battles and pokemon.

Actually, this would apply for May and Dawn too, given how they both have less Pokémon, screen time, and battles than Misty. So, then in principle, what you're saying is that any screen time a female traveling companion gets shouldn't be acknowledged or doesn't make a difference, for good or bad, unless it surpasses Misty's?

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think they used Brock because they didn't used Misty in AG. I mean, I'm sure the old school members here can tell this better than me, but wasn't May blasted by a large part of the fandom when she first came out because they felt like she was replacing Misty?

Oh yes, May was absolutely hated at the start of AG for replacing Misty. I wasn't really active here at the time, but I was on Serebii and it was pretty brutal. There was so much hate for May. I'd say the hate for Iris and especially Goh have been more toxic, but May still had quite a bit of backlash. It calmed down around the halfway point of AG and I do remember people hoping that she'd stick around for DP since Contests were still featured in the games. But that initial backlash at the start of AG was pretty noteworthy.

I don't think that the backlash affected May's popularity. She still seems to be pretty well liked among fans and people would love to see her in Journeys. I just think other characters like Dawn and arguably Serena are more popular than she is by comparison by this point.

There's actually a lot of Iris fans on twitter. If you follow the anipoke tag there and see the general posts they make, screenshots they post and so forth, she has a pretty sizeable fan base now. While she still had her detractors due to some writing issues in BW, she's definitely nowhere as disliked as she used to be. Many people are also more forgiving of her now because she was the last female companion who was into battling and proactive on the main cast, both in tournaments and in fillers and villain/legendary arcs.

Getting less screentime than Dawn doesn't make a difference now that every following female lead also got less sceeentime, battles and pokemon.

While I'm not surprised that Iris has more of a sizeable fanbase, especially when there were people genuinely excited for her return in Journeys, how proactive Iris was during BW is pretty debatable in my opinion. Yeah, she was in tournaments, but since I thought that those battles were bad and mostly resulted in undeserved victories, it doesn't really mean anything. I don't recall Iris being that proactive in the Team Plasma arc, but I haven't rewatched BW for awhile. From what I do remember, Iris was mostly on the sidelines whenever she wasn't the main focus of the episode. She didn't blend into the background exactly, but unless the episode was about her, she didn't really do much, which is also why I don't really believe that she was that proactive, especially compared to May and Dawn.

I'd say that at least Serena got more screentime than Iris, or at least it felt more consistent once she decided on becoming a Pokemon Performer. I definitely found Serena's character development way more believable than anything they were doing with Iris. As for having less Pokemon, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing either. Since the following female leads weren't battle active, they didn't need a large amount of Pokemon. Honestly, Iris really didn't need Emolga. It contributed to her goal the least out of all of her Pokemon and its inclusion in the main cast felt extremely forced. I don't think her team would have been better exactly given the issues I had with all of Iris' Pokemon, but Emolga did so little that I honesty kept forgetting that it existed.

Since I thought most, if not all, of Iris' battles were bad, I can't really give her credit for having more battles than the following female leads either. I can understand giving her more credit if one enjoyed her battles, but I just didn't. As much as I do miss having more battle active female leads, every other female lead after Iris had better writing and more likable personalities in my opinion, which I think counts for something. I'd rather have engaging, likable and well developed female leads who don't battle than unlikable and annoying female leads who do battle.

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

I think it would have been nice idea too, but are we sure AG Ash would be that good of a mentor to Wally? I mean, don't get me wrong, I love Ash, but his hot-headness and impulsiveness in AG probably wouldn't make him mentor material, at least imo.

If, however, we kept the AG Ash we had, and went with this ''unlikely and unfit mentor'' route, I could potentially see it working, as Wally's more tender personality could've helped mellow Ash out, as his interactions with May did as well.

I actually disagree, I think Ash could’ve functioned as mentor-like figure and still possess those immature qualities as both he and Wally (and of course May) would grow as the series went on. The whole idea would be that Ash could see his own insecurities in younger or more inexperienced traveling companions, and that could serve as the catalyst needed to aid in his own growing up.

I agree with your last point though: I think the personality of Wally would help mellow Ash out and aid in that process. Of course, this would all depend on the writing of the show and how Wally would’ve been handled, but I think if done well could have served as a really important milestone in the series. It wasn’t until Lillie (maybe Clemont to an extent) where we got a traveling companion with those personal qualities.

 

[SlyGecko]

I didn't really mind May replacing Misty as a kid. Always found Misty really annoying so I was glad when she left.

 

[FelipePR]

I'd arguably say the hate for May was far worse because back then the thought of Misty leaving after being there for nearly 300 episodes was unthinkable and people still weren't used to character replacements yet. Couple that with how huge Pokeshipping was at the time and people thought Misty would stick with Ash forever and it's easy to see why.

- I remember being one of the people who disliked May at first, although I didn't pour out gratuitous hatred against the character.

- When Pokémon Advanced started airing on Open TV in Brazil, I remember asking where is Misty? And why did this girl replace her? I was so uncomfortable with the change, not just the change of characters, but the changes in general in the anime, that after a few episodes I gave up on following the show.

- It was only after playing Pokémon Sapphire countless times, my first Pokémon game, that I gave the show another chance. And well, the rest I think you already know Lol.

 

[Enzo]

Honestly, Iris really didn't need Emolga. It contributed to her goal the least out of all of her Pokemon and its inclusion in the main cast felt extremely forced. I don't think her team would have been better exactly given the issues I had with all of Iris' Pokemon, but Emolga did so little that I honesty kept forgetting that it existed.

I think they gave her Emolga because that's when they decided to make the ''The Pikaclone has to be on the main cast" trend an actual thing.

 

[R1ke]

Also did they have to give Iris a Dragonite? If they wanted a flying, rampaging, disobedient, fully evolved dragon type, Hydreigon was right there. She even bonded with a Deino smh

My boy deserved better than to only be used by he-who-shall-not-be-named

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

My boy deserved better than to only be used by he-who-shall-not-be-named

Not having Ghetsis use his beast of a Hydriegon from the games during the Plasma arc has gotta be one of the show's biggest missed opportunities.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I'd arguably say the hate for May was far worse because back then the thought of Misty leaving after being there for nearly 300 episodes was unthinkable and people still weren't used to character replacements yet. Couple that with how huge Pokeshipping was at the time and people thought Misty would stick with Ash forever and it's easy to see why.

I was mostly on Pokecommunity during AG but I lurked serebii and bulbagarden during that time. People definitely wanted May to leave as soon as possible, even as late as when Battle Frontier was airing people were still hoping for May and Max to leave because they thought Misty would come back. There were petitions to get Misty back, May hate clubs, and back then there didn't seem to be any rules against character bashing on forums so the mods would just let people hate on characters all day without consequence back then. That's why there were huge flame war threads that never got closed/locked before they got out of hand.

I remember being one of the few who liked May and I tried defending her character or battles but I would constantly get attacked for liking her and told she was "inferior to Misty" and an "air-head." People used to constantly complain how May was incompetent or terrible at battling due to how she started with Torchic or how she was constantly whiny and complained all the time. Even when May got development as AG went on, people chose to ignore her growth and still hated on her and claimed she was useless.

I think the younger generation who wasn't online when AG was airing must have no idea how bad things were back then. On some forums you couldn't even say a single good thing about May without being flamed, and sometimes even the mods at the time encouraged it. The early 2000's were a really mean time to be a Pokemon anime fan.

I do remember quite a bit of that backlash, particularly the hate clubs, threads going out of control and petitions to get Misty back. The fact that people really weren't expecting Misty to leave didn't help matters either. Replacing main characters permanently is expected nowadays, but it was new territory with AG and especially with the female leads. At least Brock had been replaced before. I still remember that it cooled down as AG progressed, but people still being set on hating her wasn't uncommon either. Once Dawn replaced May, I think people understood and accepted that the female leads, and eventually the whole cast, would be replaced.

I still think that the hate for Iris and Goh have been worse, at least based on my experiences. We actually did have to ban Iris discussions during BW. I hate Iris and even I think that the backlash got too intense when we reached that point. Not to mention we've had to issue multiple PSAs over Goh. May at least became a more well liked female character, even if it took awhile with the initial backlash. Iris might be more well received now, but I think she'd still be considered one of, if not the least popular female lead and Goh is still a really divisive character.

I think they gave her Emolga because that's when they decided to make the ''The Pikaclone has to be on the main cast" trend an actual thing.

Yeah, that was most likely why they gave Iris Emolga. Pachirisu did well for Dawn, so they probably wanted to keep it up. It just felt incredibly forced and Emolga felt largely unnecessary. At least Dedenne and Togedemaru worked. I'm not sure about Morpeko though. They probably should have given Cilan Emolga instead. His Stunfisk didn't really do much and since Emolga really liked apples, it could have enjoyed Cilan's cooking to where it accidentally caught or wanted to be caught to eat his food.

Also did they have to give Iris a Dragonite? If they wanted a flying, rampaging, disobedient, fully evolved dragon type, Hydreigon was right there. She even bonded with a Deino smh

My boy deserved better than to only be used by he-who-shall-not-be-named

To be fair, the Deino belonged to another trainer, so Iris couldn't have kept it. It was still probably her best focus episode of BW from what I recall. While I don't like the idea of giving Iris a fully evolved Dragon Pokemon in general, Hydreigon could have been a more interesting choice than an overpowered Dragonite. Giving her a Deino to raise would have made its disobedient behavior more believable, although I still think it would have been a tough sell for Iris to raise a Deino into a Hydreigon during BW.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

Also did they have to give Iris a Dragonite? If they wanted a flying, rampaging, disobedient, fully evolved dragon type, Hydreigon was right there. She even bonded with a Deino smh

My boy deserved better than to only be used by he-who-shall-not-be-named

It’s funny that the reason Iris caught Dragonite in the first place was because a Hydreigon injured it. It’s like they were rubbing salt in the wound.

Wdym deserved better? It got the honor of getting oneshot by Scraggy in the Victini movie

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

Yeah I wish they approached iris differently in the BW anime. Maybe make her a gym leader-in training and have her arc revolve around the training and challenges she has to undergo to get that title, with the climax occurring with her certification exam or something. And of course, more dragons. I agree with everyone else - Emolga probably could have went to Cilan. Even if they must have her possess non-dragon Pokémon, at least make the team make sense imo. Hydreigon was right there, Axew could’ve had a full arc as well.