Controversial opinions

[AgedVeteranofShow]

imo, OS-xy ash is different from sm-Jn ash. Sm-JN isn't a bad character. But I just can't say it's the same ash from the past

It’s funny because for some in the fandom OS-DP Ash is one person, too, then BW-XY is another, and SM-JN is a third due to the art style and reboot in the start of early BW. AU Ash is also another incarnation, for many, technically he is of course.

Heck English dub is completely different for many, 1998-2006 Ash (Taylor) is different from 2006 Ash 2.0 (Kayzie Rogers) and 2007-present Ash (Natochenny). And some think Matsumoto’s Satoshi is either similar to either of the former and latter two, or completely different from any.

And there’s even some headcanons where OS, AG, DP, and XY Ash are one progression for some, BW to SM is another, and JN is his own thing.

My point? There’s more thinking like yours than you realize.

 

[Imtnt]

It’s funny because for some in the fandom OS-DP Ash is one person, too, then BW-XY is another, and SM-JN is a third due to the art style and reboot in the start of early BW. AU Ash is also another incarnation, for many, technically he is of course.

Heck English dub is completely different for many, 1998-2006 Ash (Taylor) is different from 2006 Ash 2.0 (Kayzie Rogers) and 2007-present Ash (Natochenny). And some think Matsumoto’s Satoshi is either similar to either of the former and latter two, or completely different from any.

And there’s even some headcanons where OS, AG, DP, and XY Ash are one progression for some, BW to SM is another, and JN is his own thing.

My point? There’s more thinking like yours than you realize.

For me SM is way diatinguished.. in anime style, in the concept, in how Ash is related to space in the region, in how powerful he gets in relation to others in the region with their own methods.. and finaly in actually winning. I think it was also the bigest change from its last season (xyz) and it was too much for me to watch without taking a long break.

What Im saying, it is better to take SM as a standalone for now..

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

OS-XY Ash is the real one. SM-JN is if Ash became way stupider and deaged to a preschooler.

 

[Weddingbells]

I find it dumb that gladion calls lusamine out yet no one calls him out on running away a d never ever telling anyone about faba and why Lillie was traumatized. Like he kept a secret for no reason, then had the gall to yell at lusamine. Like bruh, say something then

 

[Hidden Mew]

I find it dumb that gladion calls lusamine out yet no one calls him out on running away a d never ever telling anyone about faba and why Lillie was traumatized. Like he kept a secret for no reason, then had the gall to yell at lusamine. Like bruh, say something then

To be fair, he was a little kid when all of that happened. I saw it less like he kept it a secret for no reason and more like he was also traumatized from that experience. Plus, I think he still was right to call out Lusamine for never really noticing much about either of her children's feelings.

 

[Weddingbells]

To be fair, he was a little kid when all of that happened. I saw it less like he kept it a secret for no reason and more like he was also traumatized from that experience. Plus, I think he still was right to call out Lusamine for never really noticing much about either of her children's feelings.

I understand him staying silent as a kid maybe because he was scared ( that's still speculation), but he is older now. He has no excuse anymore. Yes lusamine definitely isn't off the hook, but gladion isn't in a position to talk when he himself could've just simply told lusamine the issue. He goes on and says "Lillie was attacked by a UB and u still want to see one". Tf, how would she have known??? Say something bruh smh

 

[Hidden Mew]

I understand him staying silent as a kid maybe because he was scared ( that's still speculation), but he is older now. He has no excuse anymore. Yes lusamine definitely isn't off the hook, but gladion isn't in a position to talk when he himself could've just simply told lusamine the issue. He goes on and says "Lillie was attacked by a UB and u still want to see one". Tf, how would she have known??? Say something bruh smh

Gladion is still a kid though. Admittedly, the idea that he was traumatized is speculation, but given his more stoic personality shift after that event, I don't think it's entirely unfounded or a huge reach. I just have a hard time really holding something like this against Gladion when he's still a ten year old kid. He isn't going to make the most reasonable and logical decisions, especially in regards to a traumatic event and talking to his mother about it. Lusamine is the adult in this situation and their mother to boot, so I think it's more fair to put the blame on her for not trying to understand her children's feelings.

 

[Weddingbells]

Gladion is still a kid though. Admittedly, the idea that he was traumatized is speculation, but given his more stoic personality shift after that event, I don't think it's entirely unfounded or a huge reach. I just have a hard time really holding something like this against Gladion when he's still a ten year old kid. He isn't going to make the most reasonable and logical decisions, especially in regards to a traumatic event and talking to his mother about it. Lusamine is the adult in this situation and their mother to boot, so I think it's more fair to put the blame on her for not trying to understand her children's feelings.

The whole "he's a kid" thing holds little weight in the pokemon world. You have kids doing the jobs and being more competent than adults. And held to the same standards. Being 10 was never shown as really an importance in the pokemon world and anime. Gladion has shown to be rational and logical. If they forshadowed some traumatized or irrational behavior, sure. But nope, gladion has never given any reason why he doesn't tell lusamine. He just doesn't and it's only used so it can forward the plot not a actual sensible character decision.

Yeah lusamine isn't off the hook, but gladion isn't either. It's weird that he had no issue telling ash, but his own mother, who is right there and can visit anytime, he decides to keep a secret. For no reason at all.

Don't get me wrong most of the blame is on lusamine (well actually faba), but I'm just saying gladion isn't 100% innocent either. All they had to do was having a few scenes of gladion trying to tell lusamine, but she dismissed him. And that's why he decided to leave the mansion and train. That would make sense why he was so silent

 

[Palamon]

The Sun/Moon art style was good.

Fight me because I'll die on that hill.

 

[Hidden Mew]

The whole "he's a kid" thing holds little weight in the pokemon world. You have kids doing the jobs and being more competent than adults. And held to the same standards. Being 10 was never shown as really an importance in the pokemon world and anime. Gladion has shown to be rational and logical. If they forshadowed some traumatized or irrational behavior, sure. But nope, gladion has never given any reason why he doesn't tell lusamine. He just doesn't and it's only used so it can forward the plot not a actual sensible character decision.

Despite being allowed to travel around the world and stuff like that, the kid characters are still treated like kids for the most part, so I don't think it holds little weight in the Pokemon World. Gladion is also shown to be reserved and stoic, so he wouldn't be that willing to open up his feelings with his mother. I have my fair share of issues with the Aether Paradise arc, but Gladion not telling Lusamine what happened isn't one of them. It feels more like making a mountain out of molehill to me, mainly because I had much more of an issue with how they handled both Lillie and Lusamine's characterizations and relationship during the arc.

Yeah lusamine isn't off the hook, but gladion isn't either. It's weird that he had no issue telling ash, but his own mother, who is right there and can visit anytime, he decides to keep a secret. For no reason at all.

Considering his relationship with Lusamine and how Lusamine was too busy/focused on herself to really notice or understand her children's feelings, I don't think it's that weird that he could tell Ash what happened. Sometimes it's easier to open up to people outside of your family when talking about traumatic experiences. Gladion could go to his mother at any time, but that doesn't mean it would be easy for him to do that.

Don't get me wrong most of the blame is on lusamine (well actually faba), but I'm just saying gladion isn't 100% innocent either. All they had to do was having a few scenes of gladion trying to tell lusamine, but she dismissed him. And that's why he decided to leave the mansion and train. That would make sense why he was so silent

I just don't like the idea of putting the blame on a kid for something like this. I wouldn't put him on the same level of Lusamine or Faba in regards to being at fault for the situation. This is the Pokemon world, but he is a kid and this happened even before he became a trainer. He isn't going to be as responsible as the adults should be. Admittedly showing him try to explain the situation to his mother only to be dismissed would have made sense, but I don't think it was necessary, especially when they already explained that he left the mansion to train in order to become stronger to protect his family anyway.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Yeah lusamine isn't off the hook, but gladion isn't either.

No matter how kids are handled in the Pokémon world, they still have the emotional intelligence of… kids. It just doesn’t sit right with me that a ten year old growing in a dysfunctional household with an emotionally unavailable mother has to take ANY blame in his home's struggles at all. He doesn’t need to be let off the hook because a ten year old growing in a dysfunctional household is nowhere near the hook. Just my opinion.

The "kids being free to go on a journey" is so standard fantasy troupe across franchises. It is needed to make most pieces of fiction involving kids work. Just look at any other media involving kids in a non-school setting. It is just a plot device to give setting while the kids' emotional intelligence remains age appropriate. It cannot really be used to pretend that the characters are much more mature than their age just because they can go to journeys.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Gladion has shown to be rational and logical. If they forshadowed some traumatized or irrational behavior, sure.

He's literally the most closed off character in the saga we meet.

 

[Weddingbells]

He's literally the most closed off character in the saga we meet.

I mean those aren't mutually exclusive. He can be closed off and be logical and rational. My issue with the gladion thing is that the anime never gave a legit reason why he doesn't tell lusamine. Because at the end of the day it's pure fan speculation. He just doesn't. All the anime had to do was shown maybe one small scene if gladion trying to tell lusamine and either being uncomfortable or she dismissive of him. There. But as of now, it just feels weird that he kept his mouth shut. Heck he himself said he prefer if Lillie completely forgot. So he intentionally kept it a secret. And we're never told why. Sure don't put any blame on gladion.

I understand your point on being ten and in the pokemon anime , I was wrong on that. But it's just a baffling writing decision they never addressed. The fact that he purposely kept a secret makes it seem it has nothing to do with trauma. He just didn't for some unknown reason

 

[Weddingbells]

Despite being allowed to travel around the world and stuff like that, the kid characters are still treated like kids for the most part, so I don't think it holds little weight in the Pokemon World. Gladion is also shown to be reserved and stoic, so he wouldn't be that willing to open up his feelings with his mother. I have my fair share of issues with the Aether Paradise arc, but Gladion not telling Lusamine what happened isn't one of them. It feels more like making a mountain out of molehill to me, mainly because I had much more of an issue with how they handled both Lillie and Lusamine's characterizations and relationship during the arc.


Considering his relationship with Lusamine and how Lusamine was too busy/focused on herself to really notice or understand her children's feelings, I don't think it's that weird that he could tell Ash what happened. Sometimes it's easier to open up to people outside of your family when talking about traumatic experiences. Gladion could go to his mother at any time, but that doesn't mean it would be easy for him to do that.


I just don't like the idea of putting the blame on a kid for something like this. I wouldn't put him on the same level of Lusamine or Faba in regards to being at fault for the situation. This is the Pokemon world, but he is a kid and this happened even before he became a trainer. He isn't going to be as responsible as the adults should be. Admittedly showing him try to explain the situation to his mother only to be dismissed would have made sense, but I don't think it was necessary, especially when they already explained that he left the mansion to train in order to become stronger to protect his family anyway.

Yeah I agree the aether arc is more on Lillie and lusamine characterization. I just never saw lusamine as bad as Lillie made her out to be. Like at all. And it doesn't help they introduced their conflict with the Clefairy evolution, which is still the dumbest decision for a fight I've ever saw.
Also didn't like how Lillie trauma was used as a gag at times.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

The Sun/Moon art style was good.

Fight me because I'll die on that hill.

Even for Ash?

 

[Rainbow-Rain]

Real Controversial Opinion here


I find the Pokémon Adventures Manga to be extremely overrated and how it's fans keep clamoring it and bashing the whole Anime, saying Adventures is what the Anime should be (Darker, Edgier, etc...), or saying that it is the only "Canon" Pokémon universe because Taijiri's quote when in reality it's no more Canon than something like Pokemon Masters

Also this is just personal preference but I dislike how the Pokémon in the Adventures Manga are often treated as nothing beyond mere props/tools/battle bots.

It's the exact same reason why Journeys bothers me so much

 

[RK9]

Okay but Adventures is what the anime should be, though.

 

[Daren]

I have access to the Kanto part of Adventures but have never read it, partly because I've seen it described as both absolutely amazing and as painful edgelord bait and the actual contents would surely feel like a letdown after all that build up either way.


More seriously it's been going for over two decades and unlike anipoke I have no pre-existing investment.

 

[HiroHunter]

Real Controversial Opinion here


I find the Pokémon Adventures Manga to be extremely overrated and how it's fans keep clamoring it and bashing the whole Anime, saying Adventures is what the Anime should be (Darker, Edgier, etc...), or saying that it is the only "Canon" Pokémon universe because Taijiri's quote when in reality it's no more Canon than something like Pokemon Masters

Also this is just personal preference but I dislike how the Pokémon in the Adventures Manga are often treated as nothing beyond mere props/tools/battle bots.

It's the exact same reason why Journeys bothers me so much

I only read the DP saga of Adventures and I have to agree with you. What I read was good but so good to replace the Anime with it? No.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Yeah I agree the aether arc is more on Lillie and lusamine characterization. I just never saw lusamine as bad as Lillie made her out to be. Like at all. And it doesn't help they introduced their conflict with the Clefairy evolution, which is still the dumbest decision for a fight I've ever saw.
Also didn't like how Lillie trauma was used as a gag at times.

Yeah, I've always hated how their first argument was over Clefairy's evolution. It was a bad sign when their first argument made me immediately side with Lusamine. Maybe you could argue that it was a sign of how Lusamine didn't notice or take into account her children's feelings, but even that falls flat when Lusamine is Clefairy's trainer and would have every right to evolve it if she wanted to. It made Lillie come off as way too petty and childish given what the arc was ultimately about.

Part of the problem was also just how SM Lusamine was a step down from her video game counterpart. Going from an emotionally abusive parent to the more typical too busy to pay attention to their children parent felt like a step down and made her far less interesting to me. Although, even US/UM tried to make her more sympathetic than I thought she should be, so I guess it isn't a huge stretch for the anime to do that too. It kind of connects to Lillie's characterization for that arc. Without that same kind of relationship with her mother, Lillie confronting Lusamine by the end of the arc or having that Z-powered form with her different outfit just does not carry nearly as much weight as it did in the games.

As for Adventures, I like the series, although I haven't kept up with it for ages mainly because of how they've had to release shorter volumes for everything until they were finally able to complete the B2/W2 arc. The R/S saga is probably my favorite followed by B/W. I do think that fans have overhyped it over the years, particularly with it being dark. It's still in the kids manga section and most of the examples they bring up are just from the R/B arc. It's more serious than the anime tends to be, but dark is a bit of an exaggeration. While it would be interesting to see the series get an anime adaptation, I don't want it to replace the anime either. In spite of its flaws, I do enjoy the anime and I don't think that using the Adventures series for the anime instead would really be as enjoyable.