Could N replace Trip as Ash's main rival?

[Silktree]

As anyone who has played the games knows, N is more similar to a rival than he is to a team leader, and not just for the fact that he aims to be the Champion. Some would consider him to be the real rival in Black and White, with Cheren and Bianca serving secondary roles.

Trip replacing Cheren seems immaterial to me in that the characters aren't very different from each other, or for that matter, from previous rivals we've seen in previous generations. But N has a completely different story, and I have to raise an eyebrow at the writers' choice to create a familiar rivalry dynamic through Trip instead of doing something truly new with N. Are they afraid to adhere to the games' story because they don't feel they can expand it?

Do the writers dislike the idea of Ash having to defeat Reshiram/Zekrom in addition to the rest of N's team? They might not want Ash to use the other legendary mascot, and they might think that no other win would be believable. It is also possible that they're simply bothered by the fact that they would have to canonize N's legendary partner, which they didn't even do for Ash's partner in Movie 14 due to there being two movies.

Is it still possible for N to view Ash as his rival, or is Giovanni the only foe N could have? More to the point, will the writers dare raise the possibility that Ash might not be treating his Pokémon as his equals, as N would say?

 

[Almonds]

Trip replacing Cheren seems immaterial to me in that the characters aren't very different from each other, or for that matter, from previous rivals we've seen in previous generations. But N has a completely different story, and I have to raise an eyebrow at the writers' choice to create a familiar rivalry dynamic through Trip instead of doing something truly new with N. Are they afraid to adhere to the games' story because they don't feel they can expand it?

I agree with that. If N were the main rival, it would be a new twist to the typical shounen rivalry everyone can see everywhere. I think the writers would be able to write a proper scenario involving N and his past, if they truly decided to use him as a rival. But he didn't appear even until now, which is pretty late for a main rival instead of Trip.


[/QUOTE]Is it still possible for N to view Ash as his rival, or is Giovanni the only foe N could have? More to the point, will the writers dare raise the possibility that Ash might not treat his Pokémon as his equals, as N would say? [/QUOTE]

Like I said, if N didn't appear until now, which is like, 40 episodes? I'd say it's kinda late for him to appear as a main rival. However, in a lot of shounen manga/anime cases, there is another typical shounen rivalry where the strongest appears the latest. Trip could be the main rival for now, but once N appears, there's a possibility that N would push Trip out of the way.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

N wouldn't care about something like winning a pokemon tournament. I can't see him as a rival for Satoshi.

 

[Silktree]

N wouldn't care about something like winning a pokemon tournament. I can't see him as a rival for Satoshi.

In the games, he feels that he has to become the Champion in order to be viewed as king. Wouldn't he want Alder to admit defeat even in the anime? If the writers make it so that Team Rocket are the only people N takes issue with, the story won't be very interesting.

I should also pose the following question: Will Reshiram and Zekrom battle in the anime? If so, with whom? For some reason no one has discussed this very seriously.

 

[투 애니원]

Why do I have the strangest feeling that N might be related to Trip? I guess its just the hair. Anyways, no I don't see N replacing Trip but I do see him being the main antagonist that Ash has to face.

 

[Iteru]

I think its a bit late to replace Shooty with N at this stage given that he hasn't appeared yet and would actually feel like a bit of a cop out. I mean, they are trying with Shooty (and if the tournament does something for the rivalry, then all the more better); it's not so dead that an absolutely new character could just come in and take over. I don't think N could even put up a good rivalry with the whole "you don't treat your Pokémon equally" thing due to how many Pokémon Satoshi has this generation, and that it would conflict with marketing the starters over other captures, as well needing to debut the Isshu Pokémon. The time span allowed just wouldn't do it justice in my opinion due to the other priorities that the writers need to uphold. I also think that because Satoshi's reckless style is so prominent in the series, that Shooty questioning it makes for a much better rivalry than any that N could bring from a game perspective.

If a character could really replace Shooty at this stage, it would either be Bel or maybe even Kenyan in my opinion.

 

[Silktree]

I don't think N could even put up a good rivalry with the whole "you don't treat your Pokémon equally" thing due to how many Pokémon Satoshi has this generation, and that it would conflict with marketing the starters over other captures, as well needing to debut the Isshu Pokémon.

I don't see the problem. Why shouldn't Ash's treatment of his underused Pokémon be questioned? N would tell him to release those Pokémon so that they would be independent and free to realize their potential. Wouldn't it be interesting to see how the writers would tackle that dilemma?

The time span allowed just wouldn't do it justice in my opinion due to the other priorities that the writers need to uphold.

What priorities?

I also think that because Satoshi's reckless style is so prominent in the series,

But why does he even need to be reckless in the first place?

 

[Iteru]

I don't see the problem. Why shouldn't Ash's treatment of his underused Pokémon be questioned? N would tell him to release those Pokémon so that they would be independent and free to realize their potential. Wouldn't it be interesting to see how the writers would tackle that dilemma?

In my opinion, Satoshi cannot come out of that looking good (or, not wrong for a different perspective). With Shinji, Satoshi's training style was shown to not be wrong as Shinji said, with Goukazaru as proof. With Shooty, he's already attempted Satoshi's reckless style for himself in their 3 vs 3 and Dent was amazed by it. Beating Dent is the proof that it isn't wrong and I forsee it being used to win against Shooty later.

Treatment of Satoshi's underused Pokémon isn't something that Satoshi cannot be wrong about because it is obvious and given the writer's number 1 priority, it won't work and given past history, they won't work around it either.

What priorities?

Marketing the most marketable Pokémon. Lizardon, Magmarshi, Jukain and Goukazaru all had more focus than the other Pokémon they were with for their respective sagas. Starters will always have more attention and screentime; it isn't something that Satoshi can rectify when the writers are purposely marketing more Pokémon than others. The Anime is an advertisement for the games and the current generation (who represents the generation more than a starter does?); that will never change. Due to that, I don't think Satoshi can actually come off looking good out of the rivalry that you proposed and I don't think Satoshi will ever look that bad given that he is the star of the show. There will always be a member of the team underused.

But why does he even need to be reckless in the first place?

That's just who he is and given his past history, his recklessness can pay off. That's why the Shooty/Satoshi rivalry can actually go somewhere because Shooty can be proven wrong. I don't think N can for what your proposed, in my opinion and thus I don't think N could replace him.

I'm done

 

[Jukain]

No, I don't think N can steal Trip's role, but I do not think it is too late for him to appear. We didn't get Barry until late in Sinnoh, although admittedly, he wasn't particularly big as a rival. Trip's importance seems to already be set, and there is nothing that can change that. I also agree that they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they tackled Ash's army this story arc, not only because of the screentime balance issues, but because of the deeper implications all these catches possess. They seem dead set on having Ash use a horde of Unova pokemon in the league. I know that they've done it before, but if they abandon that just to have Ash use his old pokemon again, then all those catches were for nothing. Not to mention that I think in the anime's logic, Ash DOES care for all his pokemon, even the ones that don't get a lot of screentime. Been in Oak's for several years? I'm happy as a clam! However, I do see Ash as the kind of trainer that would make N see past his upbringing. I don't see N as being Ash's ultimate foe, though, as much as I've seen people want to see N crash the league and Ash is the only one who can stop him. For one thing, I don't see the anime writers doing that, and the other, there is no way they'd just let the league end like that. They'd let us see the battle we're really here for. To see Ash thrash his rival. Not unless you're suggesting N is like Tobias and crushes the league himself using the dragon, and cheats Ash out of another league. (even though it is only one legend, this one is powerful enough that I don't see any of Ash's pokemon defeating it, not unless it is N's last pokemon, and Ash has several left, and they're all his most powerful pokemon, unless the final dragon battle is this battle, which we'll have a legend vs. legend)

 

[Melaugh]

I feel dumb for saying this, but I think this is just like saying "Could Giovanni replace Gary Oak?" or "Could Cyrus replace Paul?"

However, N is much younger than the past villains and really Ghetsis is the main brain behind Team Plasma ... I just cannot see N being a rival to Ash. It would work, in the sense that you are going my the plot of Black and White games, but the anime works in mysterious ways and the writers do what they want. Overall it is hard to say in my book.

Just to elaborate a bit on the N and Giovanni speculation, I would not be surprised if it is mainly Giovanni versus Ghetsis for some part of the anime with N being a shadow figure that is not really up to date on what is going on. I like the Team Rocket versus Team Plasma plot far greater than the anime trying to tie N and Team Plasma in like the past seasons with villains.

 

[Silktree]

Just to elaborate a bit on the N and Giovanni speculation, I would not be surprised if it is mainly Giovanni versus Ghetsis for some part of the anime with N being a shadow figure that is not really up to date on what is going on. I like the Team Rocket versus Team Plasma plot far greater than the anime trying to tie N and Team Plasma in like the past seasons with villains.

But where would that leave Reshiram and Zekrom? They wouldn't allign themselves with Ghetsis or Giovanni. There needs to be another hero for their battle to take place.

 

[Trainer Gabriel]

Maybe he'll become a secondary rival later but I highly doubt he'll replace Ash's main rival.

 

[matt0044]

If you ash me, N should've been Ash's main rival from the very start of Best Wishes. Trip should've either been a secondary rival or not a character at all.

So the thread should ask: Would N be a better main rival for Ash with Trip out of the picture?

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

But where would that leave Reshiram and Zekrom? They wouldn't allign themselves with Ghetsis or Giovanni. There needs to be another hero for their battle to take place.

It's already used for the movie. They could be captured and used against their rivals by Giovanni and Ghetsis.

 

[SolgaleoGX]

I'm a tad biased about N appearing in the show. Part of me wants to see him. But the other part dreads the thought that they writers will portray him wrongly..

Do the writers dislike the idea of Ash having to defeat Reshiram/Zekrom in addition to the rest of N's team? They might not want Ash to use the other legendary mascot, and they might think that no other win would be believable. It is also possible that they're simply bothered by the fact that they would have to canonize N's legendary partner, which they didn't even do for Ash's partner in Movie 14 due to there being two movies.

First of, that's the case they asked for by making stuff up for a movie story.

Also remember the third game. Who knows, maybe this time they'll make it play into the story unlike they did Giratina's. Maybe the third game will have N capture both Zekrom and Reshiram and all Ash would have to do is help find Kyurem to stop them.

And god do I hate that theory because Kyurem is my favourite...DX

Is it still possible for N to view Ash as his rival, or is Giovanni the only foe N could have? More to the point, will the writers dare raise the possibility that Ash might not be treating his Pokémon as his equals, as N would say?

Maybe as a friendly rival. Ash realizes N is going for the League, so they'll be rivals in that sense mostly. The real force N may have trouble with is Giovanni.

And now bringing Giovanni into the equation. Playing with all three members of tha Tao Trio may make things a lot easier for the writers..and would make things even more interesting because then Ghetsis and/or Giovanni will become greedy and attempt to get the other one/others.

 

[Miar]

In the games, N's more of a rival because he isn't really evil. Just innocent and stupid. He honestly does believe he's doing the right thing separating people and Pokémon.

N and Ash haven't met yet, and now that Trip has a reason to be a master (to fight Alder), there's no need for N to replace him.

 

[Silktree]

They could be captured and used against their rivals by Giovanni and Ghetsis.

I don't see how the Pokémon of Truth and Ideals would allow themselves to be used for nefarious purposes. The writers would have to invent a plot device that would contradict the games for that.

Remember that the preview of the Rocket vs. Plasma episodes showed a Plasma grunt referring to his king as the noble hero. Obviously, N is Plasma's (official) leader even in the anime.

First of, that's the case they asked for by making stuff up for a movie story.

I brought up Movie 14 because it shows resistance on the writers' part to stick to one of the game versions (even though none of the movies was directly about the games). Hopefully, they'll be more decisive when playing off the version-exclusive elements in the future.

Also remember the third game. Who knows, maybe this time they'll make it play into the story unlike they did Giratina's.

And with Rayquaza...

Maybe the third game will have N capture both Zekrom and Reshiram and all Ash would have to do is help find Kyurem to stop them.

As I've often said in discussions about the third version, it makes little sense that Zekrom and Reshiram would fight on the same side. Besides, why would N want them to work as one? Their separation represents the world he wishes to create for all Pokémon and people.

N and Ash haven't met yet, and now that Trip has a reason to be a master (to fight Alder), there's no need for N to replace him.

Is this really what you think or are you just analyzing the writers' decision? I don't see anything new or interesting about Trip wanting to surpass the Champion, and I highly doubt we'll see him win the League. In contrast, N's motives would add something new to the anime, and having him battle Alder wouldn't come at the expense of Ash's story.

If Ash has to lose the League, shouldn't it happen for the sake of something else? Imagine if Ash lost to N in the League, but later got to redeem himself and save the day after N defeated Alder.

 

[Miar]

I kind of assumed it since Alder was in Trip's backstory that he'd want to meet him again and fight him. (still waiting for the episode to be dubbed)
N never collected the badges in the games either (check the statues in the gyms), instead just skipping to and beating the E4 with Zek/Resh.

Perhaps N will appear in the league, wreck some stuff. But I don't see him being Ash's main rival after Trip's been for over 40 episodes. He's still the antagonist first.

 

[Silktree]

Perhaps N will appear in the league, wreck some stuff. But I don't see him being Ash's main rival after Trip's been for over 40 episodes. He's still the antagonist first.

Then let me rephrase: Could he be his main opponent in the League in the sense that they would battle in the finals?

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

Can it happen no
Should it happen yes. Trip just isn't doing it for me.