Speculation Could we see the end of the 3-4 year generational cycle?

[EmpoleonProd]

With things like outsourced games (BDSP), prequels (LA), sub-series of the main series games (Let’s Go, Legends), and DLC (SwSh), could we see the definitions of a generation change?

Over the years, things that were staples of a new generation (new gaming system, new sprites/models/graphics, new Pokémon) are no longer staples. The only thing you can really even use to define a new generation anymore is the introduction of a new, previously unknown region, so I suppose the more proper question is, will we see the end of a new region every 3-4 years?

With remakes seemingly becoming increasingly requested due to the hardware shift up to the Switch, and new spins on the main series games like the Let’s Go or Legends series being developed, I think I personally would much rather see these alternative concepts of games be developed instead of the “same journey, new coat of paint” type of approach they’ve had for 20 years. I don’t really want more regions to be made as much as I’d love to see older content be given the Let’s Go/Legends/BDSP treatment.

As an example, rather than having a new region by 2023, what if 2023’s game was Let’s Go Johto/Johto remakes (when I say Let’s Go I moreso mean the casual gameplay style rather than individual gameplay decisions, like the forced catching/battling mechanics and lack of Abilities/EVs). By 2023, we will be 11 years removed from our last visit to Unova. This is comparable to RSE’s gap to ORAS being only 9 years, RBY’s gap to FRLG being only 8 years, and so on.

I see no reason why we shouldn’t get Let’s Go/BDSP/Legends versions of Johto and Unova. The game series often follows the anime, but thankfully the anime has also moved away from the typical “in one region, then the next region after” style they used to follow. So if the anime is able to adopt a style of bouncing between all sorts of places in the Pokémon world, why shouldn’t the games?

So following my hypothetical 2023 Johto remakes release, maybe we get an early 2024 Pokémon Legends: Ho-Oh that takes place in the era of the burning of the Brass Tower, and after that an early 2025 release for Unova remakes (probably two games together, a part 1 and a part 2, Grey 1 and Grey 2 since I can’t think of better names right now), then late 2025 we get Pokémon Legends: Original Dragon.

Next thing you know we’d be in a 7 year generation, but we’d also be 12 years removed from Pokémon XY, so the next logical step would almost be to release Pokémon Z, and soon after that, Pokémon Delta Emerald, because why not? We’d be just as far removed from Gen 6 by then as we are now of Gen 4.

I believe that Game Freak and The Pokémon Company could just as easily sway from the 3-4 year generation cycle as that, while it’s true that the new games of a generation have historically sold the best, we don’t know the full potential of what a game like Legends could do. If it sells well enough, they might even move away from the idea of paired games and entertain more ideas like my hypothetical Pokémon Gray, Z, or Delta Emerald as being one single master game for that region, which would most likely mean the end of version exclusives and more concepts like mass outbreaks or raids to rotate available Pokémon.

Tl;dr: I think they can afford to move away from new generations being rushed out every 3-4 years in favor of fresh game designs like Legends Arceus, Let’s Go and remake styles of games, and maybe even end paired releases, and give us more opportunities to visit older places in the Pokémon world in their fullest potential.

 

[Esserise]

I highly doubt it. I think remakes, and even a prequel like LA for as novel as it is, are comparatively more limited in terms of what they can introduce. Not in an absolute way, sure, but I think it's probably easier for Game Freak to contextualize a wave of 80+ new Pokémon (as well as a new centralizing battle mechanic) by introducing them through an entirely new region. And I suspect they probably enjoy translating real places into fictional settings, and that being able to take new degrees of inspiration from those places is creatively energizing.

But what's more is that the 3-4 year cadence isn't just for the main games; it affects everything else. GO, the anime, the TCG, merchandise, and all the myriad production logistics behind all of those things. The longer the games lounge around without taking up the charge on a new gen, the longer those other departments have to figure out ways to pad themselves out. While I do think the core games have suffered somewhat due to the current turnover rate, I don't think they're that far off from a healthy ideal - I feel like maybe around 5 years between gens would be sufficient to give the games more development time without the risk of leaving the rest of the franchise to languish without a clear overarching direction.

 

[WyndonCalling]

I'm also of the view that I would like to see a lessening of the pace when it comes to new regions and species rosters, and I was delighted to see the new approach being spearheaded by Legends: Arceus - that is, making better use of existing locales, species and mythology by presenting them in a new context. Others take this stuff more seriously, but I've never much bought into the unified legendarium of the Pokémon world given that thus far it has mostly materialised as a paragraph's-worth of text per game, easily squirted out on a keyboard to give an impression of depth. Of course, the positive corollary of this is that it's quite easily to flesh out that skeleton, and at risk of mixing my metaphors it appears that GameFreak are finally cashing in those cheques and digging deep to extract their pound of flesh from these nations they've created.

I was acutely hyped for the first Proper Pokémon game on a Proper Console, but while I hold Sword and Shield in very high regard it's clear that they were released with a whole range of ambitions unfulfilled, and it's a tragedy that they didn't have the luxury of six months to a year more in development to blow us all away. However, Esserise makes a good point as always (damn his eyes) in that the main series titles are now more than ever the sun around which many, many other media outputs revolve. The Pokémon juggernaut has no brakes, even if that means not always checking to see if the driver is on board.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

See, but that's the thing. We don't need a new generation to get new Pokemon anymore. That no longer defines a generation, we've had mid-generation Pokemon a few times now. And if the TCG, anime, etc. all revolve around the games, how is it that the anime has taken a new approach of revisiting many regions rather than being set in the newest one? I think we're seeing several hints to generations becoming more vague or longer, and possibly the end of "generations" altogether.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Yes, I think the announcement of BDSP and LA is a clear sign that 8th gen isn't ending anytime soon. They've got a large number of game types in their toolkit now to weather a longer generation, they've got the new generations, the remakes, DLC, Let's Go games, Legends games, hell they could bring back sequels too if they want. The anime is suited towards lasting longer too, with this generation not being tied to a specific region and having much vaguer, less definable goals, so they can make as many episodes as they want.

Furthermore, LA is a very ambitious game, it's much larger and more intensive than pretty much anything else they've done besides SwSh. So do you really think that they're working on LA and 9th gen at the same time and releasing them back to back? I highly doubt it, there are very few AAA developers capable of releasing games of that caliber in back to back years and the ones that do have several very large development teams about the size of Game Freak altogether. It's more than likely LA OR 9th gen, not both. So I don't even think they've started on 9th gen yet and won't really begin until after LA releases.

I think that Game Freak's experience and the fanbase's reaction to SwSh may have spurred them into changing their development practices, they found out the hard way that an HD open world console game is not an easy thing to make and they're going to be capable of less and less if they keep trying to release full games every year, so they're going to spread things out more and rely on DLC, smaller games, and outsourcing to keep the games yearly.

 

[Daenerys]

We live in an era of instant gratification and impatience so yeah, I do think that generation cycles will get shorter in the future. I mean all you have to do is look around this forum and others like it to see how fans are responding to the newer games; it seems like most people play the new games for a couple months and are then immediately bored. I think Nintendo and GF realize that players want new games more often and they'll make that happen.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

I don't think anything is particularly set in stone yet, at this moment I could just as easily see them going my hypothetical route with more remakes and more Legends games, or giving us Gen 9 by late 2023, however, I think how well LA does will dictate which they go with. If the game sells 20-30 million copies like I'm hoping and expecting it to, then I can imagine them going a more creative route of doing more Legends games and maybe Let's Go remakes or outsourced remakes again like BDSP for Johto.

 

[Esserise]

We don't need a new generation to get new Pokemon anymore. That no longer defines a generation, we've had mid-generation Pokemon a few times now.

I did acknowledge this. But I feel like there’s a pretty huge and obvious difference between 5 new context-appropriate Pokémon used to milk some sales for a follow-up, and 80 new Pokémon that are largely inspired by the unique and multifaceted culture of a place that the series hasn’t replicated yet.

Just ‘cause I have some cake on a random day of the week doesn’t really mean I should suddenly recategorize what’s considered my birthday celebration.

And if the TCG, anime, etc. all revolve around the games, how is it that the anime has taken a new approach of revisiting many regions rather than being set in the newest one? I think we're seeing several hints to generations becoming more vague or longer, and possibly the end of "generations" altogether.

The anime may not currently “revolve” around Galarian stuff but it’s still getting mileage out of it and being used to market it. Goh’s Starter is a Scorbunny for a reason.

I’d be surprised if the Journeys format was meant to be a fundamental shift in how the anime is handled. They’re trying something new; good for them, but I think it’s not much more than that - trying something new after doing the same thing for literally ever. To call it a “gimmick” would probably be uncharitable, but the next series could come up with its own unique convention without taking Journeys’s lead.

 

[RileyXY1]

I did acknowledge this. But I feel like there’s a pretty huge and obvious difference between 5 new context-appropriate Pokémon used to milk some sales for a follow-up, and 80 new Pokémon that are largely inspired by the unique and multifaceted culture of a place that the series hasn’t replicated yet.

Just ‘cause I have some cake on a random day of the week doesn’t really mean I should suddenly recategorize what’s considered my birthday celebration.



The anime may not currently “revolve” around Galarian stuff but it’s still getting mileage out of it and being used to market it. Goh’s Starter is a Scorbunny for a reason.

I’d be surprised if the Journeys format was meant to be a fundamental shift in how the anime is handled. They’re trying something new; good for them, but I think it’s not much more than that - trying something new after doing the same thing for literally ever. To call it a “gimmick” would probably be uncharitable, but the next series could come up with its own unique convention without taking Journeys’s lead.

Journeys' format could potentially expand itself into future gens because it isn't tied down to the latest gen.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

I did acknowledge this. But I feel like there’s a pretty huge and obvious difference between 5 new context-appropriate Pokémon used to milk some sales for a follow-up, and 80 new Pokémon that are largely inspired by the unique and multifaceted culture of a place that the series hasn’t replicated yet.

Just ‘cause I have some cake on a random day of the week doesn’t really mean I should suddenly recategorize what’s considered my birthday celebration.



The anime may not currently “revolve” around Galarian stuff but it’s still getting mileage out of it and being used to market it. Goh’s Starter is a Scorbunny for a reason.

I’d be surprised if the Journeys format was meant to be a fundamental shift in how the anime is handled. They’re trying something new; good for them, but I think it’s not much more than that - trying something new after doing the same thing for literally ever. To call it a “gimmick” would probably be uncharitable, but the next series could come up with its own unique convention without taking Journeys’s lead.

You're being more pessimistic if anything. Of course they're going to reference Galar because that's their new region, but it doesn't go much past that. Chloe got an Eevee which if anything is probably a reference to the Let's Go games. We don't know how long Journeys will go, if it takes Ash another 2-3 years to win the World Coronation Series, then we won't get another generation until 2024/2025, simple as that. There's even theories that Journeys will be used to phase Ash out as the MC and have Goh take over, in which case they could have Goh travel other regions with various goals depending on how much Ash influences his future.

If anything people seem tired of such frequent generations, I know I'm not alone in saying that SM in 2016 caught me completely by surprise, as I was fully expecting Z, Kanto remakes (which were logically next in line after Hoenn), or even Sinnoh remakes. Gen 6 was really the first time I felt generations were being rushed, given how many considered XY and ORAS to be largely incomplete games (although ORAS less so, that's more people nitpicking the exclusion of the Frontier after it was so requested). Although I can understand why they didn't churn out remakes as quickly as people wanted in Gens 5 and 7, I don't think it would've been a bad move if we had gotten some more remakes. When you think of the "best generations" most people will point you to Gens 3 and 4 which were among the longer generations.

Journeys' format could potentially expand itself into future gens because it isn't tied down to the latest gen.

Precisely, if anything I think that's the single biggest hint that we might see the end of the generational cycle we've come to know and expect, and I'm 100% hoping that this is the case.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't expect the concept of new gens to completely go away however.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

I don't expect the concept of new gens to completely go away however.

Well, of course not. But I think they could greatly slow down. They've built the Pokemon world into such a big place that there really is no need to constantly churn out a new region, new Pokemon, and new characters every 3-4 years. I think this would be better as a 5-6 year cycle kind of thing. If the partnership with ILCA remains, I could definitely see 2023's game being another ILCA remake/remaster and 2024's game being Gen 9 or possibly a legends title to counterpart the 2023 games.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Well, of course not. But I think they could greatly slow down. They've built the Pokemon world into such a big place that there really is no need to constantly churn out a new region, new Pokemon, and new characters every 3-4 years. I think this would be better as a 5-6 year cycle kind of thing. If the partnership with ILCA remains, I could definitely see 2023's game being another ILCA remake/remaster and 2024's game being Gen 9 or possibly a legends title to counterpart the 2023 games.

You lost me at "Legends title in 2024". Again, I don't think they can develop a Legends game and a new generation at the same time, LA is a big, ambitious open world game, so I don't think they're capable of working on both at the same time. I think there will be something else in 2024 if 9th gen isn't until 2025, but IDK what that "something else" is. Unless LA gets DLC in 2023 and ILCA's game is 2024.

 

[Almonds]

I hope they lengthen the pace. I don't see why the generations have to be short. If longer cycles help them take time for developing and experimenting with future titles, then that's a great thing.

 

[Esserise]

You're being more pessimistic if anything. Of course they're going to reference Galar because that's their new region, but it doesn't go much past that. Chloe got an Eevee which if anything is probably a reference to the Let's Go games. We don't know how long Journeys will go, if it takes Ash another 2-3 years to win the World Coronation Series, then we won't get another generation until 2024/2025, simple as that. There's even theories that Journeys will be used to phase Ash out as the MC and have Goh take over, in which case they could have Goh travel other regions with various goals depending on how much Ash influences his future.

I wouldn't really describe myself as being "pessimistic" because I don't necessarily see them sticking to the regular schedule as a bad thing. It has its drawbacks, yes, but also its benefits, which everyone involved in production would want to account for before making the decision to slow everything down.

If anything people seem tired of such frequent generations, I know I'm not alone in saying that SM in 2016 caught me completely by surprise, as I was fully expecting Z, Kanto remakes (which were logically next in line after Hoenn), or even Sinnoh remakes. Gen 6 was really the first time I felt generations were being rushed, given how many considered XY and ORAS to be largely incomplete games (although ORAS less so, that's more people nitpicking the exclusion of the Frontier after it was so requested). Although I can understand why they didn't churn out remakes as quickly as people wanted in Gens 5 and 7, I don't think it would've been a bad move if we had gotten some more remakes. When you think of the "best generations" most people will point you to Gens 3 and 4 which were among the longer generations.

I mean, regardless of online fandom's complaints, the reality is that the generations haven't been any more "rushed" than they were before.

Gen 1: Feb 1996 - Nov 1999 (about 4 years)
Gen 2: Nov 1999 - Nov 2002 (3 years)
Gen 3: Nov 2002 - Sep 2006 (about 4 years)
Gen 4: Sep 2006 - Sep 2010 (4 years)
Gen 5: Sep 2010 - Oct 2013 (3 years)
Gen 6: Oct 2013 - Nov 2016 (3 years)
Gen 7: Nov 2016 - Nov 2019 (3 years)

If Gen 9 comes in late 2023, that'll be 4 years since SwSh, so a bit longer than the past few, but not unusually so.

When you think of the "best generations" most people will point you to Gens 3 and 4 which were among the longer generations.

[citation needed]

 

[EmpoleonProd]

I wouldn't really describe myself as being "pessimistic" because I don't necessarily see them sticking to the regular schedule as a bad thing. It has its drawbacks, yes, but also its benefits, which everyone involved in production would want to account for before making the decision to slow everything down.



I mean, regardless of online fandom's complaints, the reality is that the generations haven't been any more "rushed" than they were before.

Gen 1: Feb 1996 - Nov 1999 (about 4 years)
Gen 2: Nov 1999 - Nov 2002 (3 years)
Gen 3: Nov 2002 - Sep 2006 (about 4 years)
Gen 4: Sep 2006 - Sep 2010 (4 years)
Gen 5: Sep 2010 - Oct 2013 (3 years)
Gen 6: Oct 2013 - Nov 2016 (3 years)
Gen 7: Nov 2016 - Nov 2019 (3 years)

If Gen 9 comes in late 2023, that'll be 4 years since SwSh, so a bit longer than the past few, but not unusually so.



[citation needed]

I didn't think I needed to citate the obvious? Go watch any video or read any top 5 or top 10 list on the subject lol, Gens 3 and 4, or particular games within them (Platinum, Emerald, and HGSS especially) always rank extremely high on almost every list you'll see. This isn't exactly a "hot take". It's the common fan opinion. Generation 3 and 4 were objectively the most complete/replayable generations. You can certainly make cases to like other generations for various reasons (Gens 1 and 2: nostalgia factor, Gen 5: storytelling, Gen 6: mega evolution + graphical enhancements/first games in full 3D). But as far as overall game design, postgame features, etc., Gens 3 and 4 win by a lot and frankly it's not even close.

 

[WyndonCalling]

I didn't think I needed to citate the obvious? Go watch any video or read any top 5 or top 10 list on the subject lol, Gens 3 and 4, or particular games within them (Platinum, Emerald, and HGSS especially) always rank extremely high on almost every list you'll see. This isn't exactly a "hot take". It's the common fan opinion. Generation 3 and 4 were objectively the most complete/replayable generations. You can certainly make cases to like other generations for various reasons (Gens 1 and 2: nostalgia factor, Gen 5: storytelling, Gen 6: mega evolution + graphical enhancements/first games in full 3D). But as far as overall game design, postgame features, etc., Gens 3 and 4 win by a lot and frankly it's not even close.

I'm afraid I'll have to back Esserise on this one; you'd have to cite some quite thorough polling for a conclusive answer on which Gen is 'most popular', and it will vary heavily between respondent populations. From my own anecdotal experience, Gen V is remarkably popular among invested fans of the series on platforms such as this one, but I would wager very good money on Gen 1 being the most well-regarded roster with the widest interpretation of the 'gaming community'. On sales alone, there's a reasonable case to be made that Sword and Shield are enjoying unprecedented levels of success this early in the release cycle, but that also speaks heavily to the strength of the Switch and the fact that Nintendo are no longer cannibalising their own handheld sales.

Also - mind the tone. 'Go watch X lol' is not appropriate.

 

[Phosphene]

I didn't think I needed to citate the obvious? Go watch any video or read any top 5 or top 10 list on the subject lol, Gens 3 and 4, or particular games within them (Platinum, Emerald, and HGSS especially) always rank extremely high on almost every list you'll see. This isn't exactly a "hot take". It's the common fan opinion. Generation 3 and 4 were objectively the most complete/replayable generations. You can certainly make cases to like other generations for various reasons (Gens 1 and 2: nostalgia factor, Gen 5: storytelling, Gen 6: mega evolution + graphical enhancements/first games in full 3D). But as far as overall game design, postgame features, etc., Gens 3 and 4 win by a lot and frankly it's not even close.

From what I've seen it's usually gens 4 and 5, not gen 3, that are usually ranked as the best Pokémon generations; gen 3 is usually said to be good, but not better than gen 5. See: this forum. Just because you watch a lot of videos or see some top 5/10 lists doesn't mean you have a good grasp on the entirety of the fandom. You're still looking at a narrow slice of fans. Not to mention individual accounts and online polls are a poor way to gauge opinion. They're not exactly statistically valid methods.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

From what I've seen it's usually gens 4 and 5, not gen 3, that are usually ranked as the best Pokémon generations; gen 3 is usually said to be good, but not better than gen 5. See: this forum. Just because you watch a lot of videos or see some top 5/10 lists doesn't mean you have a good grasp on the entirety of the fandom. You're still looking at a narrow slice of fans. Not to mention individual accounts and online polls are a poor way to gauge opinion. They're not exactly statistically valid methods.

Yeah I'm really not. I probably spend more time consuming bulbagarden/reddit/YouTube than anyone else here, also bulbagarden is kind of dead so you can't really use the threads you find here as the end-all-be-all, but as you wish. If anything, you all are proving my point by naming one or the other generation as being in your top 2 lol. I didn't say everyone viewed everything the same, but the fact that nearly everyone places Gens 3 and 4 in their top 3 more than proves my point. I can certainly see making a case for Generation 5 to compete with either of the two, but that still proves the point most people have been making, which is the games have gotten stale and lazy since Gen 6, and that's backed up by the fact that almost everybody's top 3 contains at least 2 of the following: Gens 3, 4, 5.

I'm afraid I'll have to back Esserise on this one; you'd have to cite some quite thorough polling for a conclusive answer on which Gen is 'most popular', and it will vary heavily between respondent populations. From my own anecdotal experience, Gen V is remarkably popular among invested fans of the series on platforms such as this one, but I would wager very good money on Gen 1 being the most well-regarded roster with the widest interpretation of the 'gaming community'. On sales alone, there's a reasonable case to be made that Sword and Shield are enjoying unprecedented levels of success this early in the release cycle, but that also speaks heavily to the strength of the Switch and the fact that Nintendo are no longer cannibalising their own handheld sales.

Also - mind the tone. 'Go watch X lol' is not appropriate.

I'll mind the tone when my thread isn't getting derailed, thanks.

 

[WyndonCalling]

The top three selling titles of all time feature none of those three, and the majority of Pokémon fans are not discussing the games on the platforms you refer to. You have no quantitative evidence to back up your claim, and you're far better off treating it as your own subjective or anecdotal view - which, of course, you are perfectly entitled to.