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Speculation Could we see the end of the 3-4 year generational cycle?

EmpoleonProd

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The top three selling titles of all time feature none of those three, and the majority of Pokémon fans are not discussing the games on the platforms you refer to. You have no quantitative evidence to back up your claim, and you're far better off treating it as your own subjective or anecdotal view - which, of course, you are perfectly entitled to.

By your logic, Ruby and Sapphire are better games than Emerald, and Diamond and Pearl are better games than Platinum? There are games that objectively have higher quality features and gameplay, despite sales numbers. We all know new generations historically sell the most and third versions/remakes don't because a lot of people view these to be just "the same game, but different" than games they already own, that doesn't mean they don't objectively have more content than the games that sold higher. Also, HGSS is considered better than GSC, but by your logic, GS are the best Johto games? You can't use sales numbers to determine the best games, only the most profitable/highest-grossing games.
 

WyndonCalling

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By your logic, Ruby and Sapphire are better games than Emerald, and Diamond and Pearl are better games than Platinum? There are games that objectively have higher quality features and gameplay, despite sales numbers. We all know new generations historically sell the most and third versions/remakes don't because a lot of people view these to be just "the same game, but different" than games they already own, that doesn't mean they don't objectively have more content than the games that sold higher. Also, HGSS is considered better than GSC, but by your logic, GS are the best Johto games? You can't use sales numbers to determine the best games, only the most profitable/highest-grossing games.

You're saying it's quite murky and difficult to discern which are the most 'popular' Generations of the series, even when we have hard sales numbers? I quite agree.
 

EmpoleonProd

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You're saying it's quite murky and difficult to discern which are the most 'popular' Generations of the series, even when we have hard sales numbers? I quite agree.

When did this become about the most popular generations? I was fairly certain I meant to say Gens 3 and 4 were the ones with the best games, although the opinions held by fans on those generations are particularly carried by Emerald, Platinum, and HGSS.
 

SpinyShell

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Yeah I'm really not. I probably spend more time consuming bulbagarden/reddit/YouTube than anyone else here, also bulbagarden is kind of dead so you can't really use the threads you find here as the end-all-be-all, but as you wish. If anything, you all are proving my point by naming one or the other generation as being in your top 2 lol. I didn't say everyone viewed everything the same, but the fact that nearly everyone places Gens 3 and 4 in their top 3 more than proves my point. I can certainly see making a case for Generation 5 to compete with either of the two, but that still proves the point most people have been making, which is the games have gotten stale and lazy since Gen 6, and that's backed up by the fact that almost everybody's top 3 contains at least 2 of the following: Gens 3, 4, 5.
I've spent plenty of time on r/pokemon, and I don't ever recall gen 3 being rated as one of the best Pokémon generations out there. It was said to be good, but not the best.
Just look through these threads that I found after typing best games and best game into the reddit search bar:
Code:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/7tg7b7/what_is_the_best_pokemon_game/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/jd4d0p/whats_the_best_pokemon_game/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/7km3yx/how_would_you_rank_every_mainstream_pokemon_game/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/m4j2yh/the_best_game_in_my_opinion/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/go5e2h/best_games_in_the_series_imo_dont_me/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/e559ei/gen_5_blackwhite_not_2_was_by_far_the_best_games/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/jyzufv/what_is_the_best_game_released_since_emerald/
I only see some general trends, and it's clear that opinions are all over the place.

The point I am trying to make here is that you can only get a vague, general idea of what's well-liked or not in (a certain subset of) a franchise, and that watching a bunch of YouTube videos or going to a subreddit that caters to more hardcore fans doesn't mean you somehow have a representative sample of the fandom. The only way to make a good claim is to get good solid evidence, i.e. statistical data from a well-conducted survey. All those sources you mentioned--videos, subreddit posts, top ten lists--those are like anecdotes. They aren't a valid way of measuring wide-spread opinion because you have no way of knowing if they're representative (aka subject to selection bias), and ultimately you can filter out or miss videos, posts, lists etc. that provide a different point of view. This is clear just from our different perceptions on what's the most highly rated generations. You say most people believe gens 3 and 4 are the best, I say gens 4 and 5 are usually rated the highest. You simply cannot know for a fact what's common fan opinion just by watching some YouTube videos, reading "top Five Pokémon games" lists, and browsing a subreddit. You might get a general idea of well-liked generations or games, but you can't extrapolate that into "when you think of the 'best generations' most people will point you to Gens 3 and 4."
 

Puddle

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I think it's likely that we will continue to see a new region introduced every 3-4 years. Games that introduce a new region, and a substantial amount of new Pokemon, always sell more copies than remakes or enhanced versions.

However, I do feel like the idea of grouping games into "generations" is becoming a bit redundant. Let's Go doesn't feel like part of Gen 7, and the upcoming Sinnoh titles don't appear to have a lot to do with Gen 8, either. It seems as if the Pokemon series is taking a new direction, with each game now existing in its own separate ecosystem.
 

EmpoleonProd

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I think it's likely that we will continue to see a new region introduced every 3-4 years. Games that introduce a new region, and a substantial amount of new Pokemon, always sell more copies than remakes or enhanced versions.

However, I do feel like the idea of grouping games into "generations" is becoming a bit redundant. Let's Go doesn't feel like part of Gen 7, and the upcoming Sinnoh titles don't appear to have a lot to do with Gen 8, either. It seems as if the Pokemon series is taking a new direction, with each game now existing in its own separate ecosystem.

Yeah I never understood classifying LGPE as Gen 7 to begin with. It feels more like a Gen 8 game. It's on the Switch, for one, but it also has no direct connectivity to or from other Gen 7 games, meaning you cannot physically bring ANY Pokemon from SM/USUM to LGPE or vice versa, you CAN however bring Pokemon from LGPE to SwSh, even if the opposite isn't true, I still think that classifies it as a Gen 8 game more than anything.

And like you said, BDSP doesn't look anything like other Switch/Gen 8 games so far, so I think the generation thing needs to die.
 

Tuoko

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I doubt Generations are gonna get longer than 4 years.

As for the anime, it's still very heavily Galar-oriented, considering the following things:
  1. Ash has G-Farfetch'd & Dracovish as part of his team + Pikachu can G-Max
  2. Goh has Cinderace/Sobble/Grookey as part of his team, especially since Cinderace is his starter
  3. Chloe's associated with Yamper
  4. PWC has Bea, Raihan, and Leon as obstacles that Ash needs to get through, there's also Sonia as a potential recurring character so far
And not just Galar, but there's also Sinnoh promotion currently with Ash having Lucario & there being a rival for him with Gallade.

However, I do feel like the idea of grouping games into "generations" is becoming a bit redundant. Let's Go doesn't feel like part of Gen 7, and the upcoming Sinnoh titles don't appear to have a lot to do with Gen 8, either. It seems as if the Pokemon series is taking a new direction, with each game now existing in its own separate ecosystem.

Yeah I never understood classifying LGPE as Gen 7 to begin with. It feels more like a Gen 8 game. It's on the Switch, for one, but it also has no direct connectivity to or from other Gen 7 games, meaning you cannot physically bring ANY Pokemon from SM/USUM to LGPE or vice versa, you CAN however bring Pokemon from LGPE to SwSh, even if the opposite isn't true, I still think that classifies it as a Gen 8 game more than anything.

And like you said, BDSP doesn't look anything like other Switch/Gen 8 games so far, so I think the generation thing needs to die.

Connectivity doesn't define what's part of a generation. What matters is when it's released.

LGPE was released between SM & SwSh, so of course it's part of Gen 7. The same kind of logic applies to spinoffs - PMD Red & Blue being a Gen 3 game, while PMD DX is a Gen 8 game, for example.

BDSP/LA would be considered as Gen 8 since they're releasing before we even get Gen 9 - a whole new region with 70-100 new species, new characters, new story, and so on.
 

Poke Dragon

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I can see generations getting longer, especially if they bring in the concept of sequels to a game released at least 10 years ago (something I want them to do). Something like that will only add to the possibilities of Pokemon games being made by Game Freak.
 

Sheep40

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I had predicted that gen 9 would come after 4 years, which would be a period of great experimentation, because my prediction gen 9 involves heavy deviations from the usual pokemon mould (LA, which the predictions were and are closest too, is still extremely different) because this is the point where pokemon chooses a route on the crossroads it's faced with.
 

RileyXY1

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I had predicted that gen 9 would come after 4 years, which would be a period of great experimentation, because my prediction gen 9 involves heavy deviations from the usual pokemon mould (LA, which the predictions were and are closest too, is still extremely different) because this is the point where pokemon chooses a route on the crossroads it's faced with.
I don't expect it in 2023 because it's so soon after Legends Arceus and they need to put out a smaller game in between.
 

Poke Dragon

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I believe that Gen 8 will be here for a while, which is a good thing in my opinion since Gen 9 can receive as much development as it can.
 

Sheep40

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Yeah. I expect DLC for Legends Arceus followed up by Let's Go Johto.

Let's go Johto is kind of a maybe. The original Let's Go's were kind of a one-off thing.

That prediction was made right after SS was released, and at the time everyone said it was unrealistic. Now that's skewed in the opposite direction.
 

Esserise

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Yeah I'm really not. I probably spend more time consuming bulbagarden/reddit/YouTube than anyone else here

Okay, so what about the millions upon millions of players who don't engage in these online communities? And what about people who were children when Gens 6, 7, and 8 came out? Eventually they will age up, enter the community, and begin to voice their love for those games (personally I feel like this is already happening with XY; here's one recent poll asking 1,388 participants that put XY in second place out of all Pokémon games, but even then, it's going to depend a lot on who you're asking). Besides, I'm pretty sure every game from Gen 3 onward was initially subjected to pretty harsh criticism from one side of the fandom, only to become remembered more fondly in later years.

Connectivity doesn't define what's part of a generation. What matters is when it's released.

LGPE was released between SM & SwSh, so of course it's part of Gen 7. The same kind of logic applies to spinoffs - PMD Red & Blue being a Gen 3 game, while PMD DX is a Gen 8 game, for example.

BDSP/LA would be considered as Gen 8 since they're releasing before we even get Gen 9 - a whole new region with 70-100 new species, new characters, new story, and so on.

I mean, plenty of people have argued that connectivity does determine generations, but really that's illustrative of the fundamental problem with the entire "generation" concept, which is that it's completely fan-coined and there is no universally agreed-upon criteria. Some people would just as soon say that spin-offs aren't part of a "generation" because they aren't core games. Certainly when people tend to use the term online, I think they're usually only referring to the core games within a given "generation." Like, if someone says "I love Gen 4," I feel like most people on here would maybe be inclined to interpret that as meaning DPP/HGSS, not DPP, HGSS, Shadows of Almia, Guardian Signs, Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky, PBR, PokéPark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure, and My Pokémon Ranch.

Speaking for myself, I do use the "new region with new Pokémon" basis as the threshold, but I also don't really worry about including spin-offs in my conception of a generation. But that's clearly just my own personal definition.
 

Sheep40

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Gen 3 was reviled upon launch.

Set the stage for the cycle. The seeds for all the controversy now were sown back then.
 

Esserise

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Pea brain: GSC are Gen 2 because they introduced a new region and 100 new Pokémon

Galaxy brain: Gold & Silver (but not Crystal) are Gen 1 because they can communicate directly with RBY and can be played in monochrome on the original Game Boy
 

WyndonCalling

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Pea brain: GSC are Gen 2 because they introduced a new region and 100 new Pokémon

Galaxy brain: Gold & Silver (but not Crystal) are Gen 1 because they can communicate directly with RBY and can be played in monochrome on the original Game Boy

Transcendental brain: Since RSE species can be transferred up to Sword and Shield, we never left Gen 3.
 

Kallyle

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I think the one problem with this possibility is the existence of the VGC. Unless they eventually go back on Dexit, sticking with SwSh for years without any new additions to their rosters might get stale really quick. Ideally, I could see a generation lasting until they fill in the National Pokédex should they go the route of what @EmpoleonProd is suggesting. However, @Esserise also has a point in that the main games are relied on for new content regarding the other facets of the franchise. Due to both of these factors, I can't see them going 7+ years without a new generation. However, I do think TPCi will expand the generational gap in general to about 5-6 years as they seem to be learning that there's only so much Game Freak can do with a limited development cycle that's going to become more and more difficult as time goes on.

As for needing a new generation + new Pokémon to generate hype and new material for, maybe Game Feak can utilize the Anime filler regions and the spin-off game's regions to add a handful of new Pokémon to and stall for time until they feel ready for the "next generation" release with more original ideas.
 
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Tuoko

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I mean, plenty of people have argued that connectivity does determine generations, but really that's illustrative of the fundamental problem with the entire "generation" concept, which is that it's completely fan-coined and there is no universally agreed-upon criteria. Some people would just as soon say that spin-offs aren't part of a "generation" because they aren't core games. Certainly when people tend to use the term online, I think they're usually only referring to the core games within a given "generation." Like, if someone says "I love Gen 4," I feel like most people on here would maybe be inclined to interpret that as meaning DPP/HGSS, not DPP, HGSS, Shadows of Almia, Guardian Signs, Explorers of Time/Darkness/Sky, PBR, PokéPark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure, and My Pokémon Ranch.

Speaking for myself, I do use the "new region with new Pokémon" basis as the threshold, but I also don't really worry about including spin-offs in my conception of a generation. But that's clearly just my own personal definition.

I do think the "new region with new Pokemon" basis makes sense for what defines the start of a new Gen. I'm just saying that what time period something is released in matters too - if something's released between the releases of SwSh & Gen 9 for example, then it'd be considered as part of Gen 8, it can be either a main game, spinoff, anime episode/series, whatever.
 
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