D/P HMs

[FabuVinny]

What would you like to see for HMs in D/P? The same as RS? Less of them? More of them? Losing old ones? Adding new ones? Making use of the unique DS features?

I like Surf because it is a decent move in battle, but Cut is rubbish once you have progressed in the game. And while Dive has potential, do we really need three water HMs?

To start us off, here is an interesting idea from serebii forums:

HM01 - Slash (tougher than Cut)
HM02 - Fly
HM03 - Surf (with 3 levels: 1 = Surf, 2 = Waterfall and Whirlpool (if they return) and 3 = Dive)
HM04 - Strength
HM05 - Melt (like Rock Smash but can also melt other stuff like signs, just for kicks)

Flash would be either changed into a ability trait or an item (Flash Belt)

HM05 sounds fun

 

[Doctor Oak]

Dive got abandoned in FR/LG.... I don't think they like it that much outside of using it in the R/S/E plot.

Flash can be pretty useful - it should still be a move and probably still an HM at that.

Melt sounds like a good idea though. ^^ Bring on the Fire HMs already.

I'd rather they just made all the HMs more like Flash, Fly and Surf - actually useful in battle.

 

[GrnMarvl14]

I'd be happy with Dive being an HM again so long as there's some sort of counter to it (i.e. EQ, Thunder). Surf's pretty much a given (unless it takes place in a desert this time). I'd love to see Cut and Flash back...just for kicks. Fly's a must-have, more so than any other (unless we get some sort of, I dunno...flying car or something). Aside from those, I'd just like to see some sort of new and useful HM along the lines of Surf, possibly have Dig as an HM and give it a new use outside of battle.

 

[Crimson Flames]

Flash is useful? I'm not trying to sound rude and this probably sounds stupid, but how?

On topic: I want them all except for Flash, we should get a flashlight item instead.

 

[Doctor Oak]

Flash is one sure-fire way to piss off your opponent and ruin their accuracy.

Also attainable by Sand Attack etc, but more Pokemon can learn Flash than Sand Attack.

It can be invaluable when trying to capture Legendaries too - it stops them kicking the crap out of you by not letting them hit you while you whittle down it's HP.

 

[Crimson Flames]

Oh, thanks for clearing that up. I'll have to remember that strategy for legendaries.

I just had an idea. An HM of Headbutt would be fun, if they found a way to make it important.

 

[Jukain]

It was shown in Ru/Sa/E that Dig could perhaps be used for something other than getting out of caves. That once instances that you had to use Dig to open the chamber that unlocks the other chambers that the Regis are in. Wouldn't it be cool if there were caves or other places with weak walls that you could use Dig to get through and discover more rooms? If not, maybe they can make Rock Smash do that.

Also, so far every generation has added to the original set of 5 HMs: Cut, Fly, Surf, Strength, and Flash. G/S/C had Whirlpool and Waterfall, only one of which became a HM again (Waterfall). In Ru/Sa/E, we yet again got two new HMs: Rock Smash, which used to be a HM-like TM, and Dive, which has already been explained. I imagine Dive was made because Hoenn has the largest water area of any other by far; it is useless elsewhere. I highly doubt that they would make the new region an island again. It would be interesting to see an entirely landlocked region, but given the popularity of Surf, I seriously doubt that would happen, unless they were to put a giant lake somewhere. Given the geography of Japan, which every region has been based off of, there is no place that is like that. It would have to be along the coastline like Kanto and Johto are.

As for entirely new HMs, I don't know about Melt other than if there were some metal or ice barrier in your way. How about turning the ability for Fire pokemon to walk over lava in Mysterious Dungeon into a HM? I'm not sure about that, though, it sounds like it would turn into a Fire version of Surf.

 

[Carrieattheprom]

I'd like the idea of flash becoming an item. A fire version of surf sounds cool too. What would it be called? Lava Flow? Melt sounds intersting.

 

[Orochi-Breakwing]

I donno about surf, but getting annoying things out of the way by melting it would be VERY nice.

 

[Akerin]

I like that Melt idea too. It sounds a whole lot stronger than Rock Smash, which is pretty much only useful outside of battle. Flash is also useless to me.. maybe not to people who actually put strategy into their fights, but I'm not one of them. I never use stat-changing moves like that.

Maybe they could do something like... instead of having Flash be an HM, turn in into one of those HM-like TM's, like Rock Smash was in the days of G/S/C. I know it's unlikely, but it would be a lot nicer for those of us who would like to be able to use it once--only when we have to--and then delete it right away, instead of having to take our Pokemon to the move deleter. Or am I the only one who sees that as a big hassle? n_n;;

 

[Chosen of Mana]

I'd be happy with Dive being an HM again so long as there's some sort of counter to it.

Techinically, Surf can counter Dive, but, of course, Surf is ineffective against almost all that can learn it.

Bring on the Melt

 

[Minty Electronica]

Flash is one sure-fire way to piss off your opponent and ruin their accuracy.

Even with that, with an accuracy as low as 70%, you're better off using Sand-Attack. Or, heck, a Pokemon with Sandstorm and Sand Veil as an ability.

Outside of battle, it really is blinking annoying, mainly because there's no convenience in it. (Unlike the other HM moves, you can't press A whenever you walk into something that requires it to be used, if that makes sense.)

I like the idea of Melt, though, as well as Sceptile's idea for Dig. I'd also like to add that it'd be cool if Fly would have two levels as well. Specifically, the following:

1. Getting from town to town.
2. Just flying around one map.

The second level would make things infinitely easier, especially if you're low on items and need to get through a patch of grass to get to the nearest Pokemon Center. At least, it'd be easier than whipping out a Pokemon with Cut every two steps.

 

[bell02+]

Since the first pokemon I wanted an HM where you could jump back up the cliffs, or climb up a cliff...

 

[atomic1fire]

flash should be an abillity for some pokemon not an hm such as that one water/electric type pokemon that would be more helpful alot like zigzagoons pickup abillity giving you free iteims

 

[FabuVinny]

The problem with Flash being an ability is that a lot of Pokémon would need to have it - removing the availability of a lot of other abilities.

 

[Saelyra]

I've never liked Flash, simply because of how inacurate it is. (An accuracy lowering attack that's inacurate? A bit of a paradox, there) I too would prefer it as an item :/ I remember in RBY, before you could delete HMs, I once went through the entire cave where you needed flash without it because I didn't want to use it on my Pikachu
I wish they'd cut down on the number of HMs a bit. If it takes me more than one HM slave to get around on foot, then that's really too many :/ Cut, for instance; Once you get to end game, it's hindering to keep on any regular pokemon's moveset. Yet there are still areas that require cut to get to. Perhaps if ther was a way to permenantly Cut/Rock Smash/etc something so that you didn't have to pull that move out everytime you wanted to get to 'X' spot on Route 523458 :/

Also, FabuVinny's idea about HM's having multiple uses per HM is great! Or having it so that the next 'ability' of the HM could be unlocked after you complete suchandsuch event, so the game devs could still keep certain areas fenced off until they're ready for you to go there. I mean... what's the problem in Surf and Dive being one HM? It's not like if you were to stop in the middle of the ocean and try to use Surf again in order to use Dive, the game would mistake you for wanting to stop surfing :/

 

[God]

Hm01 - Crosschop - better then slash and cut
Hm02 - Stomp - better then rock smash, you could even stomp on beds, signs, trees, etc xD
Hm03 - Surf... I cant find anything to replace it D= besides transform, like transform into a boat, a plane, etc xD
Hm04 - s-toss - beter then strength

 

[FabuVinny]

Saelyra: The multiple uses were my idea?
God: You've got too much emphasis on fighting moves.

And quoting from the cliff thread:

That gives me an idea for a new HM. Rock Climb!

This is the one HM I would reallly like to see: something to get over those cliffs from both sides. (I don't mind that it would come after the main game is over.) It also works as a multiple of Rock Smash.

In battle, the Pokémon could climb up a bunch of boulders to avoid attacks, in a similar manner to Substitute. This wouldn't work against flying moves, of course.

 

[Saelyra]

That's what I thought you meant by "HM03 - Surf (with 3 levels: 1 = Surf, 2 = Waterfall and Whirlpool (if they return) and 3 = Dive)", ^^;;

 

[Sneasel12]

I'd be happy with Dive being an HM again so long as there's some sort of counter to it (i.e. EQ, Thunder). Surf's pretty much a given (unless it takes place in a desert this time). I'd love to see Cut and Flash back...just for kicks. Fly's a must-have, more so than any other (unless we get some sort of, I dunno...flying car or something). Aside from those, I'd just like to see some sort of new and useful HM along the lines of Surf, possibly have Dig as an HM and give it a new use outside of battle.

There is a counter to Dive, Surf.

ON TOPIC: I also think that Flash, Cut, Rock Smash, and Strength are useless in battle. Having a flashlight does sound like a good idea, and Melt could get rid of trees rocks and boulders, I do have to admit though, the fact that Surf will always be around stands tall, though it would be cool if it also had the abilities of Dive, Whirlpool, and Waterfall. And I just love the idea of Fire HM's and the idea of Headbutt actually coming back.